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Author Topic:   Top Speed for Temptation 22

Tom W Clark posted 09-10-2006 02:47 PM ET (US)
This ad, referred to in Marketplace:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/205217786.html
...claims the boat, a 22' Temptation with twin 140 HP motors is capable of a top speed of 59 MPH. This claim has been called into question and I figured I would start this thread to short circuit what I am sure would turn into a discussion within Marketplace, a place to post For Sale ads only.
I will say with fair confidence that a Temptation 22 with twin 140 HP outboards will do 45-47 MPH, not 59 MPH.
I always chuckle at these ridiculous claims of speed and have to wonder if the owners know how to differentiate a statute mile per hour from a knot from a kilometer per hour.
kingfish posted 09-10-2006 03:30 PM ET (US)
I think it would be cool to have a Temptation 22 that would do an honest 59 MPH, but I don't think it's gonna happen with two OEM 140s; although I could see it coming closer to 50 MPH than you're suggesting, Tom. My Outrage 22 would easily break 50 before I added the kicker, canvas and arch, with a single 225.
John
Tom W Clark posted 09-10-2006 04:44 PM ET (US)
Oops, sorry, this boat only has twin 120 Johnsons.
John,
Your Outrage does not have a Whaler Drive as this boat does. The Whaler Drive adds a lot of drag. I am lowering my top speed estimate to 45 MPH with a comfortable cruise speed of 25 MPH.
kingfish posted 09-10-2006 04:53 PM ET (US)
Ah so...I should have read the ad! Twin 120s and Whalerdrive? WAY no way!! I think you're being generous with the 45 MPH.
BADAZGN posted 09-10-2006 09:16 PM ET (US)
Just curious what a Temptation will do with the 454 I/O as far as top speed? I guess you could always put better heads , cam and such to get more power out of it.
Thanks,
Matthew
Plotman posted 09-10-2006 09:53 PM ET (US)
I have twin 130 Yamahas on a standard transom 22, and I can get ~52 by GPS on a cool day with a light load. The whaler drive is going to suck well over 5 mph off of that top end - probably more like 7mph. Just compare what Jim H reports (low 40s) compared to a 22 with a similar engine.
Who wants to bet that that temptation has a fancy pitot tube speedo in the dash?
Tom W Clark posted 09-10-2006 09:58 PM ET (US)
Matthew,
The Temptation 2200 with optional 7.4 liter (454) MerCruiser sterndrive was rated at 330 HP. I would guess it might be capable of 50 MPH but it is still not a "go-fast" boat by today's standards.
jimh posted 09-10-2006 11:36 PM ET (US)
A TEMPTATION 22 (with Whaler Drive) and a REVENGE 22 W-T WD have the same hull configuration, and I would imagine they have similar hull weights from the addition of the foredeck superstructure. If anything, a TEMPTATION might weigh more than a REVENGE because there is more superstructure (as the foredeck is longer). If these assumptions are correct, then a comparison of performance between the two hulls should find similar speeds with a given horsepower.
On that basis, I offer the observation that my REVENGE 22 W-T WD with a single 225-HP engine will only reach 41-MPH under optimum conditions. There is no way on earth the boat would reach 59-MPH.
Using Crouch's Calculator to predict how much horsepower would be needed, I find that it would take 466-HP to reach 59-MPH with that hull.
alfa posted 09-11-2006 02:04 PM ET (US)
Temptation 2200 WD (as BW spec's)
Boat weight 2700
Std Max HP 300 WD may be higher / See local BW Dealer
Std fuel capacity 77 gal.
Loaded with options...
My 0.02
Alain
Buckda posted 09-11-2006 02:32 PM ET (US)
The photo of the boat near the bridge was taken last year at a Boston Whaler sponsored rendezvous in Florida. That boat (in the photo) was or is owned by a long-standing forum member who has been around this forum for at least 5 years.
I have a feeling that it is NOT his boat in the advertisement, and so perhaps this seller is also misrepresenting the actual boat for sale?
It also appears that the boat in the water (bridge photo) has bottom paint while the boat on the trailer does not...if they're the same boat, one of the photos is out of date.
I think the 59 and 45 MPH are typos. He meant to say that it will cruise at 35 all day and 49 MPH top speed.
kingfish posted 09-11-2006 05:28 PM ET (US)
It's not gonna get 49 mph top speed...
jimh posted 09-11-2006 09:06 PM ET (US)
I took that photo! It is being used without permission. This is an egregious violation of my rights!
Plotman posted 09-11-2006 09:12 PM ET (US)
What a slimeball seller!
jimh posted 09-11-2006 09:14 PM ET (US)
I have contacted the person advertising this boat and asked him to remove my photograph. I advise extreme caution in dealing with this boat, it has been misrepresented.
The Judge posted 09-12-2006 01:00 PM ET (US)
FYI...Going by the #'s above, 2700lb hull with a 1100lb BBC setup would bring her to just under 4k. My 24 Baja was 4k with a 330 BBC and would fetch about 60 on a good day. With 420hp they will get close to 70. I had about 385 and did about 65. That Temptaion should go 55 with a 330hp if set up correctly and has thru-hull exhaust.
The Judge posted 09-12-2006 01:04 PM ET (US)
When comparing outboard hp to I/O hp you have to consider torque. That 330hp BBC is a torque ANIMAL, basically a truck engine that is not stressed out. I know the difference between a 260hp SBC and a 330BBC does not seem that big but trust me...a WORLD of difference, especially on a heavier hull. I would likely compare a 330 to twin 200's in performance arena.
macfam posted 09-12-2006 03:20 PM ET (US)
I think you guys have got it all wrong!!
The add says, "Oh yeah, the top speed is 59 mph!"
That's the top speed the boat has ever reach..........on the highway........:)

His tow vehicle is hardly adequate:)
Venge posted 09-27-2006 04:40 PM ET (US)
I just got a 2200 Temptation with a 454 BBC/330hp and as it stands now with 2 people, 50 gallons of fuel and the not so perfect S/S 23" pitch prop that came with it I got.
43.6 knots @ 4400 rpm by gps = 50 mph
I hoping that by swapping out that prop to a larger blade area Mirage Plus will correct the slippage at cruising speed and help it break into the low 50's on the top end.
AL
Binkie posted 09-27-2006 08:46 PM ET (US)
Venge, you may be disappointed, your running a lot of pitch now. What makes you think you have excessive slipping. That 454 makes for a heavy boat. I would try 21" pitch with a little cup.
Venge posted 09-27-2006 11:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the advice Binkie,
Well the boat came with a spare stock aluminum prop which was also a 23" pitch and I noticed that the blades where diffinately larger area and rounder. When I tried that one for the hell of it, I noticed that it had to labor out of the hole more but it could plane and cruise at 3,000 rpm maybe less, the stainless prop that is on there now does have the exhaust ports which I feel lets it rev up and ease out of the hole without grunting, I ASSume this is from the controlled cavitation thing happening but I do notice that the boat now needs at least 3,2000 or more to hold it on plane. Since I'm doing alot of moon light runs through Boston 'hAhbar' and the islands at minimal planing cruise speed and not much WOT, the prop tests I read here on another thread, seems to suggest the Mirage Plus for minimal slippage and nautical mpg, plus it has the exhaust vents for the labor less launch. LINK below
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/propellerWDSingle.html
When I did reach that top speed of near 50 mph, the tach was at 4,400 and I thought that was just where a BBC should be for WOT so maybe a 4 bladed 21" pitch cupped would be worth a test to get the cruising bite on the water I'm looking for @ 3 grand or less?

Tom W Clark posted 09-27-2006 11:48 PM ET (US)
By all means, try a Mercury Mirage Plus. They are excellent all around props. An even better prop for you might be a Mercury Revolution 4. These are know to hold a boat on plane at slower speed yet still be fast at the top end.
Yes, the vent holes allow the blades to ventilate during acceleration thus allowing the motor to spool up quicker. This is ONLY a benefit for full throttle hole shots. The vent holes will have no effect at cruising speed or higher.
The Judge posted 09-28-2006 10:45 AM ET (US)
A good running BBC to me should be spooling 4800. Try a 21". What gear ratio and drive do you have? I am guessing a 1.50 ratio, especially if a Bravo 1. Vent holes do not work out to well on I/O's for me, too heavy a boat. My Baja had a 1.36 ratio alpha and I ran a 21" Mirage and she would do mid 60's at 5k. If it was a 1.5 ratio I would have been running a 23". Agagin try a 21 mirage. should be easy to find one to borrow.
Mobjack posted 09-28-2006 12:53 PM ET (US)
My father owned a 22' outrage with the whaler drive, I believe it was an 89 model, with twin 200 yamahas. People always thought when they saw it that it would be incredibly fast, as this was in the late 1980's when it was still not all that common(compared to today)to have twin outboards. In reality, it wasn't. With two or three people and a half tank of fuel(70 gal) at peak RPM it would make between 53 and 56MPH. As I said it had the WD, and it also had a full T-top and bottom paint. Point being, we couldnt even reach the speed he claims in the same hull with 160 additional horsepower.
Venge posted 09-29-2006 06:50 AM ET (US)
Sounds like good advice so that's the plan, hopefully I can try at least one more prop before I pull out for the season.
I'm going to try the Mirage plus in a 21 & 23p and play with the vents. Then I noticed that the 4 bladed props claim you should drop an inch when using them so I've seen a 4 blade 22p that I'ld like to try even though that would most likely be to much bite without vents so if that doesn't run WOT in the right range I'ld go for a 21p 4 blade and see if I can run it at 3,000 rpm or below just for cruising around at night .
Thanks again for your wisdom,
AL
Teak Oil posted 09-29-2006 10:35 AM ET (US)
I'll second the recommendation of the Mirage prop, its a great prop for heavier boats.
My 25' Liberator with a 454 Mag would do 55-56 at 5200 rpm with a 19" ss prop, and I had at least 1000# more than you. A 21 Mirage will get you around 4600-4700. BBC's like rpms and have a VERY strong bottom end so dont be afraid to run right at or a little above the recommended rpm range.
Venge posted 09-30-2006 07:39 AM ET (US)
All Righty then, I'll get the 21p Mirage Plus first off and I'm difinatley getting the 23p thought out of my head after reading the posts here and let her rip. I'll check it again today when I get down to the boat but I thought I read on the valve cover sticker that said 4200 - 4500 maybe 4600 rpm WOT so I thought that the 4400 was a good top rpm speed.
Your Liberator has the MAG version BBC and thru hulls too I bet? THAT would be nice.
Of course I'm thinking out loud at dinner that IF this motor gets tired some day 'WE' could just drop in a very efficient MPI 502 CI you know... just to save on fuel because that would just be turning 2500 rpm to cruise and it's MPI, right men?
But for now....
I'll start with the 21p Mirage Plus and look for 19P Mirage and a 20p 4 blade prop to test try.
Good thing I read this thread before buying another 23p prop.
Thanks again mates,
AL
Teak Oil posted 10-01-2006 12:28 AM ET (US)
Yeah it was a Magnum 454 with forged internals and 365hp and big heads with open exhaust. However the 330hp, even with cast pistons are plenty strong enough to handle 46-4800 rpms all day long. I wouldnt go more than 4800 because you run out of cam and lose hp.
Your engine with oval port heads will actually respond better to a cam upgrade than mine did, as the oval port heads make more power at under 5000 rpms.
You are not harming the engine running it at 4400rpms, but it will probably run faster if you get it a few more rpms.
A 502 or 454 MPI would be nice. Only problem is you would need all new accesories, fuel pump, etc. Nothing off of the old motor will be useful.
If you want to wake up that 454 go for a new intake manifold, open exhaust, a low restriction air filter and some roller rocker arms. Those added a solid 4mph to my ride. After that you need to start taking the motor apart for big gains.
The Judge posted 10-02-2006 12:05 PM ET (US)
Mine was a 454 w/oval port heads, TRW internals, 502 alum intake and carb, Mercruiser 420/440hp cam and 4" SS exhaust, probably made about 385+hp due to rec intake on oval heads. Right heads would have been about 425hp but my alpha would not be happy with that hp. The only reason I think 4400 is a 'tad' low is because it makes your holeshot suck. I can get mine to run 4400 by turning a 23" but it is actually slower @ WOT and holeshot is horrible. With the 21 she would do about 4800, maybe 5k with no fuel and full tilt boogie.
The Judge posted 10-02-2006 12:11 PM ET (US)
PS if going NEW NEW, go with the 496CI 425hp, where else can you get 5years of warranty? You will see 60+ with that kind of hp. I could see a 22 Temptation doing 70 but I think it would not be real safe.
Funny thing is I had a 21' Scarab I with a 350/275ish hp swinging a 23" with an alpha and that little bugger would do low 60's. Hard to believe a 22 Temptation is such a dog with 330hp.
Venge posted 10-02-2006 10:09 PM ET (US)
I was a little suprised myself that it just hit 50 mph with the 454 CI but I never did consider an original Rockland Whaler a hot boat, a well made classic that can take the chop without loosening up, like a Harley compared to a crotch rocket. Perhaps the weight and the hull design hold it back. Whit the exhaust vents in the prop though it takes off nicely. I had a 223 Formula 350 CI before this Temptation and if it was calm you could almost do 50 trimming it to the gods, the Temptation will porpus up and down with a little trim and no trim tabs like when I got it. The first thing I did was put the trim tabs on it from what I read and after taking it out for the first time, this boat is built for comfort and style not speed. I haven't had the boat long enough yet but it seems anything over 50 mph would be hairy, as the boat teeters on an air cushion at WOT as it is so 70? no way, it's not a Formula or a Scarab with those cut like a knife hull designs.
Never the less, more is better so I was reading up on the 454 and the link here is on bolt on mods I found interesting.
http://www.powerboatmagazine.com/teague/archives/2003/03.php
The 496 must be a nice package considering they are in everything nowadays but the marine mechanic I know still likes the 502, maybe he's old school but he waved off the 496 when I asked. Who wouldn't want another 100 horses with Captains Call
The funny thing here is we pulled it out last night so I could upgrade it after work and it's in a friends yard right next to the original factory it was made, in Rockland Massachusetts. My wifes brother worked there back then. As I drove home past the site which is now a, what else, Home Depot nowadays, I could almost smell the resin in the air like the good ole days!
Tom W Clark posted 10-03-2006 09:15 AM ET (US)
Let us know how the 21" Mirage Plus works out. If that ends up being the correct pitch, try a 21" Mercury Revolution 4.
Venge posted 10-04-2006 12:08 PM ET (US)
Will Do, I just got one on eBay for $125 so if and when it gets here, I'll post back
Thanks for the help people,
AL
Teak Oil posted 10-04-2006 09:20 PM ET (US)
The new 496 has balls for sure. Have you ever looked up close at one though? Good luck fixing that mess yourself.
I'll take a 502/454 with a fat Holley on it any day.
You are right Nick, that Alpha is stretched to the max with that Rat motor pushing it. Too bad the Bravo didnt come out about two years sooner, anyone with the 454/Alpha combo got stuck like having a thoroughbred with prosthetic legs
The Judge posted 10-05-2006 02:11 PM ET (US)
Mine was NEVER apart until I sold it to my friend and he blew it up twice. I told him he can't run it like an idiot, I guess it took 2 tries to figure out he was an idiot.
I was watching the 2004 world championships on TV the other night that was in St Pete, FL. The winning team for the season was Team Vortec or something. They said at the podium that they were testing fate by running these engines in the finals because they were the original engines from race #1 but figured why change now. They ran a WHOLE season on those 496's. They get my vote, hence why they come with a 5yr warranty.

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Author	Topic: Top Speed for Temptation 22
Tom W Clark	posted 09-10-2006 02:47 PM ET (US) This ad, referred to in Marketplace: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/205217786.html ...claims the boat, a 22' Temptation with twin 140 HP motors is capable of a top speed of 59 MPH. This claim has been called into question and I figured I would start this thread to short circuit what I am sure would turn into a discussion within Marketplace, a place to post For Sale ads only. I will say with fair confidence that a Temptation 22 with twin 140 HP outboards will do 45-47 MPH, not 59 MPH. I always chuckle at these ridiculous claims of speed and have to wonder if the owners know how to differentiate a statute mile per hour from a knot from a kilometer per hour.
kingfish	posted 09-10-2006 03:30 PM ET (US) I think it would be cool to have a Temptation 22 that would do an honest 59 MPH, but I don't think it's gonna happen with two OEM 140s; although I could see it coming closer to 50 MPH than you're suggesting, Tom. My Outrage 22 would easily break 50 before I added the kicker, canvas and arch, with a single 225. John
Tom W Clark	posted 09-10-2006 04:44 PM ET (US) Oops, sorry, this boat only has twin 120 Johnsons. John, Your Outrage does not have a Whaler Drive as this boat does. The Whaler Drive adds a lot of drag. I am lowering my top speed estimate to 45 MPH with a comfortable cruise speed of 25 MPH.
kingfish	posted 09-10-2006 04:53 PM ET (US) Ah so...I should have read the ad! Twin 120s and Whalerdrive? WAY no way!! I think you're being generous with the 45 MPH.
BADAZGN	posted 09-10-2006 09:16 PM ET (US) Just curious what a Temptation will do with the 454 I/O as far as top speed? I guess you could always put better heads , cam and such to get more power out of it. Thanks, Matthew
Plotman	posted 09-10-2006 09:53 PM ET (US) I have twin 130 Yamahas on a standard transom 22, and I can get ~52 by GPS on a cool day with a light load. The whaler drive is going to suck well over 5 mph off of that top end - probably more like 7mph. Just compare what Jim H reports (low 40s) compared to a 22 with a similar engine. Who wants to bet that that temptation has a fancy pitot tube speedo in the dash?
Tom W Clark	posted 09-10-2006 09:58 PM ET (US) Matthew, The Temptation 2200 with optional 7.4 liter (454) MerCruiser sterndrive was rated at 330 HP. I would guess it might be capable of 50 MPH but it is still not a "go-fast" boat by today's standards.
jimh	posted 09-10-2006 11:36 PM ET (US) A TEMPTATION 22 (with Whaler Drive) and a REVENGE 22 W-T WD have the same hull configuration, and I would imagine they have similar hull weights from the addition of the foredeck superstructure. If anything, a TEMPTATION might weigh more than a REVENGE because there is more superstructure (as the foredeck is longer). If these assumptions are correct, then a comparison of performance between the two hulls should find similar speeds with a given horsepower. On that basis, I offer the observation that my REVENGE 22 W-T WD with a single 225-HP engine will only reach 41-MPH under optimum conditions. There is no way on earth the boat would reach 59-MPH. Using Crouch's Calculator to predict how much horsepower would be needed, I find that it would take 466-HP to reach 59-MPH with that hull.
alfa	posted 09-11-2006 02:04 PM ET (US) Temptation 2200 WD (as BW spec's) Boat weight 2700 Std Max HP 300 WD may be higher / See local BW Dealer Std fuel capacity 77 gal. Loaded with options... My 0.02 Alain
Buckda	posted 09-11-2006 02:32 PM ET (US) The photo of the boat near the bridge was taken last year at a Boston Whaler sponsored rendezvous in Florida. That boat (in the photo) was or is owned by a long-standing forum member who has been around this forum for at least 5 years. I have a feeling that it is NOT his boat in the advertisement, and so perhaps this seller is also misrepresenting the actual boat for sale? It also appears that the boat in the water (bridge photo) has bottom paint while the boat on the trailer does not...if they're the same boat, one of the photos is out of date. I think the 59 and 45 MPH are typos. He meant to say that it will cruise at 35 all day and 49 MPH top speed.
kingfish	posted 09-11-2006 05:28 PM ET (US) It's not gonna get 49 mph top speed...
jimh	posted 09-11-2006 09:06 PM ET (US) I took that photo! It is being used without permission. This is an egregious violation of my rights!
Plotman	posted 09-11-2006 09:12 PM ET (US) What a slimeball seller!
jimh	posted 09-11-2006 09:14 PM ET (US) I have contacted the person advertising this boat and asked him to remove my photograph. I advise extreme caution in dealing with this boat, it has been misrepresented.
The Judge	posted 09-12-2006 01:00 PM ET (US) FYI...Going by the #'s above, 2700lb hull with a 1100lb BBC setup would bring her to just under 4k. My 24 Baja was 4k with a 330 BBC and would fetch about 60 on a good day. With 420hp they will get close to 70. I had about 385 and did about 65. That Temptaion should go 55 with a 330hp if set up correctly and has thru-hull exhaust.
The Judge	posted 09-12-2006 01:04 PM ET (US) When comparing outboard hp to I/O hp you have to consider torque. That 330hp BBC is a torque ANIMAL, basically a truck engine that is not stressed out. I know the difference between a 260hp SBC and a 330BBC does not seem that big but trust me...a WORLD of difference, especially on a heavier hull. I would likely compare a 330 to twin 200's in performance arena.
macfam	posted 09-12-2006 03:20 PM ET (US) I think you guys have got it all wrong!! The add says, "Oh yeah, the top speed is 59 mph!" That's the top speed the boat has ever reach..........on the highway........:) His tow vehicle is hardly adequate:)
Venge	posted 09-27-2006 04:40 PM ET (US) I just got a 2200 Temptation with a 454 BBC/330hp and as it stands now with 2 people, 50 gallons of fuel and the not so perfect S/S 23" pitch prop that came with it I got. 43.6 knots @ 4400 rpm by gps = 50 mph I hoping that by swapping out that prop to a larger blade area Mirage Plus will correct the slippage at cruising speed and help it break into the low 50's on the top end. AL
Binkie	posted 09-27-2006 08:46 PM ET (US) Venge, you may be disappointed, your running a lot of pitch now. What makes you think you have excessive slipping. That 454 makes for a heavy boat. I would try 21" pitch with a little cup.
Venge	posted 09-27-2006 11:41 PM ET (US) Thanks for the advice Binkie, Well the boat came with a spare stock aluminum prop which was also a 23" pitch and I noticed that the blades where diffinately larger area and rounder. When I tried that one for the hell of it, I noticed that it had to labor out of the hole more but it could plane and cruise at 3,000 rpm maybe less, the stainless prop that is on there now does have the exhaust ports which I feel lets it rev up and ease out of the hole without grunting, I ASSume this is from the controlled cavitation thing happening but I do notice that the boat now needs at least 3,2000 or more to hold it on plane. Since I'm doing alot of moon light runs through Boston 'hAhbar' and the islands at minimal planing cruise speed and not much WOT, the prop tests I read here on another thread, seems to suggest the Mirage Plus for minimal slippage and nautical mpg, plus it has the exhaust vents for the labor less launch. LINK below http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/propellerWDSingle.html When I did reach that top speed of near 50 mph, the tach was at 4,400 and I thought that was just where a BBC should be for WOT so maybe a 4 bladed 21" pitch cupped would be worth a test to get the cruising bite on the water I'm looking for @ 3 grand or less?
Tom W Clark	posted 09-27-2006 11:48 PM ET (US) By all means, try a Mercury Mirage Plus. They are excellent all around props. An even better prop for you might be a Mercury Revolution 4. These are know to hold a boat on plane at slower speed yet still be fast at the top end. Yes, the vent holes allow the blades to ventilate during acceleration thus allowing the motor to spool up quicker. This is ONLY a benefit for full throttle hole shots. The vent holes will have no effect at cruising speed or higher.
The Judge	posted 09-28-2006 10:45 AM ET (US) A good running BBC to me should be spooling 4800. Try a 21". What gear ratio and drive do you have? I am guessing a 1.50 ratio, especially if a Bravo 1. Vent holes do not work out to well on I/O's for me, too heavy a boat. My Baja had a 1.36 ratio alpha and I ran a 21" Mirage and she would do mid 60's at 5k. If it was a 1.5 ratio I would have been running a 23". Agagin try a 21 mirage. should be easy to find one to borrow.
Mobjack	posted 09-28-2006 12:53 PM ET (US) My father owned a 22' outrage with the whaler drive, I believe it was an 89 model, with twin 200 yamahas. People always thought when they saw it that it would be incredibly fast, as this was in the late 1980's when it was still not all that common(compared to today)to have twin outboards. In reality, it wasn't. With two or three people and a half tank of fuel(70 gal) at peak RPM it would make between 53 and 56MPH. As I said it had the WD, and it also had a full T-top and bottom paint. Point being, we couldnt even reach the speed he claims in the same hull with 160 additional horsepower.
Venge	posted 09-29-2006 06:50 AM ET (US) Sounds like good advice so that's the plan, hopefully I can try at least one more prop before I pull out for the season. I'm going to try the Mirage plus in a 21 & 23p and play with the vents. Then I noticed that the 4 bladed props claim you should drop an inch when using them so I've seen a 4 blade 22p that I'ld like to try even though that would most likely be to much bite without vents so if that doesn't run WOT in the right range I'ld go for a 21p 4 blade and see if I can run it at 3,000 rpm or below just for cruising around at night . Thanks again for your wisdom, AL
Teak Oil	posted 09-29-2006 10:35 AM ET (US) I'll second the recommendation of the Mirage prop, its a great prop for heavier boats. My 25' Liberator with a 454 Mag would do 55-56 at 5200 rpm with a 19" ss prop, and I had at least 1000# more than you. A 21 Mirage will get you around 4600-4700. BBC's like rpms and have a VERY strong bottom end so dont be afraid to run right at or a little above the recommended rpm range.
Venge	posted 09-30-2006 07:39 AM ET (US) All Righty then, I'll get the 21p Mirage Plus first off and I'm difinatley getting the 23p thought out of my head after reading the posts here and let her rip. I'll check it again today when I get down to the boat but I thought I read on the valve cover sticker that said 4200 - 4500 maybe 4600 rpm WOT so I thought that the 4400 was a good top rpm speed. Your Liberator has the MAG version BBC and thru hulls too I bet? THAT would be nice. Of course I'm thinking out loud at dinner that IF this motor gets tired some day 'WE' could just drop in a very efficient MPI 502 CI you know... just to save on fuel because that would just be turning 2500 rpm to cruise and it's MPI, right men? But for now.... I'll start with the 21p Mirage Plus and look for 19P Mirage and a 20p 4 blade prop to test try. Good thing I read this thread before buying another 23p prop. Thanks again mates, AL
Teak Oil	posted 10-01-2006 12:28 AM ET (US) Yeah it was a Magnum 454 with forged internals and 365hp and big heads with open exhaust. However the 330hp, even with cast pistons are plenty strong enough to handle 46-4800 rpms all day long. I wouldnt go more than 4800 because you run out of cam and lose hp. Your engine with oval port heads will actually respond better to a cam upgrade than mine did, as the oval port heads make more power at under 5000 rpms. You are not harming the engine running it at 4400rpms, but it will probably run faster if you get it a few more rpms. A 502 or 454 MPI would be nice. Only problem is you would need all new accesories, fuel pump, etc. Nothing off of the old motor will be useful. If you want to wake up that 454 go for a new intake manifold, open exhaust, a low restriction air filter and some roller rocker arms. Those added a solid 4mph to my ride. After that you need to start taking the motor apart for big gains.
The Judge	posted 10-02-2006 12:05 PM ET (US) Mine was a 454 w/oval port heads, TRW internals, 502 alum intake and carb, Mercruiser 420/440hp cam and 4" SS exhaust, probably made about 385+hp due to rec intake on oval heads. Right heads would have been about 425hp but my alpha would not be happy with that hp. The only reason I think 4400 is a 'tad' low is because it makes your holeshot suck. I can get mine to run 4400 by turning a 23" but it is actually slower @ WOT and holeshot is horrible. With the 21 she would do about 4800, maybe 5k with no fuel and full tilt boogie.
The Judge	posted 10-02-2006 12:11 PM ET (US) PS if going NEW NEW, go with the 496CI 425hp, where else can you get 5years of warranty? You will see 60+ with that kind of hp. I could see a 22 Temptation doing 70 but I think it would not be real safe. Funny thing is I had a 21' Scarab I with a 350/275ish hp swinging a 23" with an alpha and that little bugger would do low 60's. Hard to believe a 22 Temptation is such a dog with 330hp.
Venge	posted 10-02-2006 10:09 PM ET (US) I was a little suprised myself that it just hit 50 mph with the 454 CI but I never did consider an original Rockland Whaler a hot boat, a well made classic that can take the chop without loosening up, like a Harley compared to a crotch rocket. Perhaps the weight and the hull design hold it back. Whit the exhaust vents in the prop though it takes off nicely. I had a 223 Formula 350 CI before this Temptation and if it was calm you could almost do 50 trimming it to the gods, the Temptation will porpus up and down with a little trim and no trim tabs like when I got it. The first thing I did was put the trim tabs on it from what I read and after taking it out for the first time, this boat is built for comfort and style not speed. I haven't had the boat long enough yet but it seems anything over 50 mph would be hairy, as the boat teeters on an air cushion at WOT as it is so 70? no way, it's not a Formula or a Scarab with those cut like a knife hull designs. Never the less, more is better so I was reading up on the 454 and the link here is on bolt on mods I found interesting. http://www.powerboatmagazine.com/teague/archives/2003/03.php The 496 must be a nice package considering they are in everything nowadays but the marine mechanic I know still likes the 502, maybe he's old school but he waved off the 496 when I asked. Who wouldn't want another 100 horses with Captains Call The funny thing here is we pulled it out last night so I could upgrade it after work and it's in a friends yard right next to the original factory it was made, in Rockland Massachusetts. My wifes brother worked there back then. As I drove home past the site which is now a, what else, Home Depot nowadays, I could almost smell the resin in the air like the good ole days!
Tom W Clark	posted 10-03-2006 09:15 AM ET (US) Let us know how the 21" Mirage Plus works out. If that ends up being the correct pitch, try a 21" Mercury Revolution 4.
Venge	posted 10-04-2006 12:08 PM ET (US) Will Do, I just got one on eBay for $125 so if and when it gets here, I'll post back Thanks for the help people, AL
Teak Oil	posted 10-04-2006 09:20 PM ET (US) The new 496 has balls for sure. Have you ever looked up close at one though? Good luck fixing that mess yourself. I'll take a 502/454 with a fat Holley on it any day. You are right Nick, that Alpha is stretched to the max with that Rat motor pushing it. Too bad the Bravo didnt come out about two years sooner, anyone with the 454/Alpha combo got stuck like having a thoroughbred with prosthetic legs
The Judge	posted 10-05-2006 02:11 PM ET (US) Mine was NEVER apart until I sold it to my friend and he blew it up twice. I told him he can't run it like an idiot, I guess it took 2 tries to figure out he was an idiot. I was watching the 2004 world championships on TV the other night that was in St Pete, FL. The winning team for the season was Team Vortec or something. They said at the podium that they were testing fate by running these engines in the finals because they were the original engines from race #1 but figured why change now. They ran a WHOLE season on those 496's. They get my vote, hence why they come with a 5yr warranty.