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Author Topic:   160 DAUNTLESS: Trailer

pragmatic1 posted 10-06-2006 07:28 PM ET (US)
I will be towing the 160 DAUNTLESS with a Volvo s60. The new boat doesn't come with a trailer so I sure would appreciate some help in buying the right one. Will an 84-inch trailer work? I want the smallest trailer that will work because the car is small and would look funny with a large trailer behind it. I'll need brakes on the trailer and I've been told that brakes can be installed on almost any trailer. The boat ramp I'll be using isn't all that steep, so I would like the boat to sit as close to the ground as possible so I dont have to put the rear wheels of the car in saltwater. If you have a 160 Dauntless and are happy with the trailer you use, or you know what trailer would be best for me, please respond. Thanks.
Marlin posted 10-06-2006 09:20 PM ET (US)
I'm very happy with the trailer for my 160 Dauntless. It's a ShoreLand'r SLB31BSW -- bunk trailer, 3100 pound capacity, surge brakes, salt water. In four years I've had to replace some lighting and re-do a brake line connector, but everything else is just about like new. One could argue that 3,100 pounds is overkill for this boat, but I disagree. Loaded and fueled, a 160 Dauntless could easily go 2,600 pounds, and some margin isn't a bad thing.
On the down side, this is not an especially petite trailer, but the Dauntless isn't exactly a petite 16-footer, either. I towed it for three years behind my Volvo V70, but the Volvo's turbo inline-5 really didn't have the guts to do the job well. Then, related or not, the Volvo decided it wanted a new transmission. Since then I've been towing with a V6 4WD Explorer, and both the vehicle and the driver have been a lot happier. I would not expect your S60 to be any better towing this load than the V70 was, I'm sorry to say.
There's a picture of the Dauntless on her trailer at http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/GoldenDaze/Explorer/P9040532.jpg
My home ramp is pretty shallow as well, and at low tide it can be a real chore to get the boat off the trailer. Last year I installed a double row of glide-slicks on each bunk, which has worked out extremely well, but requires some extra care when detaching the winch strap!
Good luck!
-Bob
Marlin posted 10-06-2006 09:22 PM ET (US)
Whoops, I meant to say a V8 4WD Explorer. Interestingly, the mileage isn't too much worse than the Volvo was -- about 13 for the Ford vs about 16 for the Volvo. When you figure the Volvo's mileage was cut in half when towing, really it seems like it was just working too hard.
Perry posted 10-06-2006 11:06 PM ET (US)
I used to own a 160 Dauntless and I own a 2004 Volvo S60. I would not want to tow a boat that heavy with my S60. I used to tow it with a V6 Ranger and it was a marginal tow vehicle at best for it.
RLSmith posted 10-07-2006 11:54 PM ET (US)
I have a 2000 Dauntless 16, almost exactly the same as a 160. I have a ShoreLand'r B1820S: 2,000-lbs capacity, width 89-inches, length 19-feet 3-inches 20-feet 6-inches (swing tongue), weight 480-lbs. The boat is pushing the weight limit: 1,500-lbs hull plus 370-lbs engine. I did not select the trailer, it came with the boat. The construction quality seems fine.
I tow with a ML320 - not a powerful engine but body-on-frame with a great suspension, AWD, stability control, etc. I have towed all over the place (even from Florida to Virginia) and don't even notice the boat back there. I would be comfortable with a smaller vehicle, particularly for short trips to the ramp. However the Volvo web site lists S60 towing capacity as 3,300-lbs. You could be near this limit with 45 gallons of gas, batteries, trailer weight, etc. That would concern me for lengthy trips because eventually a problem will arise. Such trips would also beat up the transmission. Remind me not to buy a used S60 with a trailer hitch.
My trailer has two long bunks plus guideboards. I usually power-load. I highly recommend guideboards to deal with wind and current. When the bunks are dry I need to back deep into the water to unload. I have considered glide-ons per Marlin's post - sounds like you will need them.
BTW, found this in an online S60 owners manual.
http://apps.volvocars.us/ownersdocs/2002/2002_S60/02s60_08b.htm
Maximum speed when towing a trailer: 50 mph...
Volvo recommends the use of synthetic engine oil when towing a trailer over long distances or in mountainous areas.
Perry posted 10-09-2006 12:56 PM ET (US)
Remember that the 3,300-lbs tow rating is for a trailer with brakes. My Dauntless 160 did not have trailer brakes. The tow rating for the Volvo s60 is 1,100-lbs for a trailer with no brakes.
pragmatic1 posted 10-09-2006 01:40 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the useful information. You guys are great. I'm looking into the glide-slicks.
The dry weight of the boat is 1,500-lbs. The 90 Mercury weighs 386-lbs, and the weight of 45 gallons of fuel should be around 288-lbs. That makes a total weight of 2,174-lbs. The trailer manufacturer (mom and pop place) is reccommending a 2,300-pound skiff trailer with keel roller that is 86-inche overall width because I want a trailer as small as possible. Does this sound ok?
Perry posted 10-09-2006 04:09 PM ET (US)
The trailer better have brakes. You will be pushing the max tow ratng for your s60 (w/trailer brakes) as it is.
The weight of your boat and trailer will be way more than the 2,174 lbs you estimated. It will be closer to 3000 lbs:
boat..................1500 lbs
trailer...............600 lbs?
fuel..................300 lbs
battery...............30 lbs
cooler/drinks.........70 lbs
gear..................100 lbs
motor (w/oil & prop)..400 lbs
With that kind of weight, I would not tow it with an s60. Uphill towing or stop and go towing will put excessive wear and tear on your drivetrain and brakes. How much do you think it would cost to replace a transmission in a Volvo?
Buy a used inexpensive truck and tow it with that.
Marlin posted 10-10-2006 12:05 AM ET (US)
> How much do you think it would cost to replace a transmission in a Volvo?
It costs $4000 plus $1200 to install. Trust me.
cmarques posted 10-10-2006 09:56 PM ET (US)
I have a 2630 lb capacity Magic Tilt trailer for my Dauntless 160 that has held up well for 4 years. Their website does not list my trailer anymore but a similar model is in the 420 lb range. I don't have brakes on mine but have felt o.k. towing with a full size pickup. I have towed it with a 1998 S10 pickup that did o.k. but was worried about the weight stopping behind me, a 2003 F150 that did fine although the v6 was barely enough to keep up with highway traffic. I now tow with a 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi which may be overkill but feel very comfortable and the fuel mileage towing is actually better than my previous 2 vehicles(I get almost 12 mpg towing). Even though only 16 ft, the Dauntless is a heavy boat to tow, I think Marlin has a very good combo with the Explorer as I had looked at those and Sport Tracs before getting my Dodge (I work at a Ford dealer with Dodge on the same lot)
Chris
pragmatic1 posted 10-11-2006 11:03 AM ET (US)
I suppose I could by a used vehicle but then I would need a place to park it, get insurance for it, risk getting a lemon, etc. Why would Volvo rate the S60 at 3300lb towing capacity (trailer w/breaks) if it couldn't handle it? If the tranny did go south wouldn't the warranty cover its replacement? It seems that if transmissions were failing with a 3300lb load Volvo would lower the rating. After all THEY would have to pay for the new transmission, as long as the car was still under warranty, wouldn't they?
3300lbs does sound like alot of weight for such a small car, but it doesn't make sense to me why Volvo would over rate it's towing capacity. It could only hurt them. The towing capacity for an S60 is probably not going to make or break a persons decision to buy one.
My Volvo is red so if you see a grey one for sale next year please buy it, you won't have to worry about it's transmission.
Perry posted 10-11-2006 03:03 PM ET (US)
If you really want to tow with your new Volvo, go right ahead. I'm just trying to say that I've owned a Dauntless 160 and towed it with a Ranger with a 3500 lb tow rating. It was not nearly sufficient to tow the heavy boat. I felt it was unsafe for me, my family and others on the road. Pulling close to 90% of your vehicle's tow rating is not a good idea. If not for the wear and tear of your vehicle, for the safety of you and others around you.
I ended up buying a F150 4X4 with a V8 to pull my Dauntless 160. It was a much better tow vehicle in my opinion.
Marlin posted 10-11-2006 06:18 PM ET (US)
Yes, you're quite right about all the issues of having a third vehicle. And no, I don't know why Volvo would apparently overrate the tow capacity. Oddly, the capacity is rated even higher in Europe, at 4000 pounds. I cannot say why, but it strikes me as absurd.
Volvo makes a reasonable effort to stand behind their product. In my case, the V70 was not far out of its 50,000 mile warranty. Volvo provided a new transmission at no charge, which really was above and beyond the call of duty. I did have to pay $1200 for the installation, however.
I am not saying that towing a 160 Dauntless with your S60 will make the transmission fail. But I am saying that the towing performance was never more than just barely adequate, and ramps were often very difficult. Do as you see fit.
-Bob
pragmatic1 posted 10-12-2006 05:30 PM ET (US)
I want to thank all of you for your input. Here's what I decided to do. I'm going with a higher capacity trailer then I originally planed on. As you pointed out, the extra margin can only be a good thing. I asked the trailer manufacturer about the glide-slicks and he told me that the trailer I'm interested in comes with poly slides which are even better, so I guess that issue is solved. The boat ramp I'll be using most of the time is 500-feet from my house so I think the S60 will be fine. Also, I live on Cape Cod and don't foresee having to trailer the boat any further than 20-miles or so to get to another ramp (water everywhere!). I'm also taking Perry's advice, and if I ever find myself having to trailer the boat any greater distance, I'll either rent a truck or buy a cheap one. So instead of buying a truck now, I'll spend the money on a Mills mooring cover (they are running around $800!). Thanks for all your posts Marlin, I read somewhere else how happy you were with the Mills cover.
Thanks again to all. This website is a great resource for info and help.
Gary
Marlin posted 10-13-2006 10:44 AM ET (US)
Yes, I'm very happy with the Mills cover. One word of warning- on my boat, the eye strap for the forward bimini straps was attached to the top of the console rail, where it quickly wore a hole through the mooring cover. I drilled out the rivets and moved it to the front of the console rail, where it has lived happily since.
pragmatic1 posted 10-15-2006 07:57 PM ET (US)
So much for my earlier decision. Today I traded in my Volvo for a 2004 Explorer (Eddie Bauer). Problem solved.
Marlin posted 10-15-2006 07:59 PM ET (US)
The Volvo's a nice car, and I'm sure you'll miss it sometimes. Like when you're standing at the gas pump, for example. But you certainly won't regret it when you're towing!
Good luck, and enjoy the boat!
-Bob
Perry posted 10-16-2006 02:13 AM ET (US)
Wise decision

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Author	Topic: 160 DAUNTLESS: Trailer
pragmatic1	posted 10-06-2006 07:28 PM ET (US) I will be towing the 160 DAUNTLESS with a Volvo s60. The new boat doesn't come with a trailer so I sure would appreciate some help in buying the right one. Will an 84-inch trailer work? I want the smallest trailer that will work because the car is small and would look funny with a large trailer behind it. I'll need brakes on the trailer and I've been told that brakes can be installed on almost any trailer. The boat ramp I'll be using isn't all that steep, so I would like the boat to sit as close to the ground as possible so I dont have to put the rear wheels of the car in saltwater. If you have a 160 Dauntless and are happy with the trailer you use, or you know what trailer would be best for me, please respond. Thanks.
Marlin	posted 10-06-2006 09:20 PM ET (US) I'm very happy with the trailer for my 160 Dauntless. It's a ShoreLand'r SLB31BSW -- bunk trailer, 3100 pound capacity, surge brakes, salt water. In four years I've had to replace some lighting and re-do a brake line connector, but everything else is just about like new. One could argue that 3,100 pounds is overkill for this boat, but I disagree. Loaded and fueled, a 160 Dauntless could easily go 2,600 pounds, and some margin isn't a bad thing. On the down side, this is not an especially petite trailer, but the Dauntless isn't exactly a petite 16-footer, either. I towed it for three years behind my Volvo V70, but the Volvo's turbo inline-5 really didn't have the guts to do the job well. Then, related or not, the Volvo decided it wanted a new transmission. Since then I've been towing with a V6 4WD Explorer, and both the vehicle and the driver have been a lot happier. I would not expect your S60 to be any better towing this load than the V70 was, I'm sorry to say. There's a picture of the Dauntless on her trailer at http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/GoldenDaze/Explorer/P9040532.jpg My home ramp is pretty shallow as well, and at low tide it can be a real chore to get the boat off the trailer. Last year I installed a double row of glide-slicks on each bunk, which has worked out extremely well, but requires some extra care when detaching the winch strap! Good luck! -Bob
Marlin	posted 10-06-2006 09:22 PM ET (US) Whoops, I meant to say a V8 4WD Explorer. Interestingly, the mileage isn't too much worse than the Volvo was -- about 13 for the Ford vs about 16 for the Volvo. When you figure the Volvo's mileage was cut in half when towing, really it seems like it was just working too hard.
Perry	posted 10-06-2006 11:06 PM ET (US) I used to own a 160 Dauntless and I own a 2004 Volvo S60. I would not want to tow a boat that heavy with my S60. I used to tow it with a V6 Ranger and it was a marginal tow vehicle at best for it.
RLSmith	posted 10-07-2006 11:54 PM ET (US) I have a 2000 Dauntless 16, almost exactly the same as a 160. I have a ShoreLand'r B1820S: 2,000-lbs capacity, width 89-inches, length 19-feet 3-inches 20-feet 6-inches (swing tongue), weight 480-lbs. The boat is pushing the weight limit: 1,500-lbs hull plus 370-lbs engine. I did not select the trailer, it came with the boat. The construction quality seems fine. I tow with a ML320 - not a powerful engine but body-on-frame with a great suspension, AWD, stability control, etc. I have towed all over the place (even from Florida to Virginia) and don't even notice the boat back there. I would be comfortable with a smaller vehicle, particularly for short trips to the ramp. However the Volvo web site lists S60 towing capacity as 3,300-lbs. You could be near this limit with 45 gallons of gas, batteries, trailer weight, etc. That would concern me for lengthy trips because eventually a problem will arise. Such trips would also beat up the transmission. Remind me not to buy a used S60 with a trailer hitch. My trailer has two long bunks plus guideboards. I usually power-load. I highly recommend guideboards to deal with wind and current. When the bunks are dry I need to back deep into the water to unload. I have considered glide-ons per Marlin's post - sounds like you will need them. BTW, found this in an online S60 owners manual. http://apps.volvocars.us/ownersdocs/2002/2002_S60/02s60_08b.htm Maximum speed when towing a trailer: 50 mph... Volvo recommends the use of synthetic engine oil when towing a trailer over long distances or in mountainous areas.
Perry	posted 10-09-2006 12:56 PM ET (US) Remember that the 3,300-lbs tow rating is for a trailer with brakes. My Dauntless 160 did not have trailer brakes. The tow rating for the Volvo s60 is 1,100-lbs for a trailer with no brakes.
pragmatic1	posted 10-09-2006 01:40 PM ET (US) Thanks for all the useful information. You guys are great. I'm looking into the glide-slicks. The dry weight of the boat is 1,500-lbs. The 90 Mercury weighs 386-lbs, and the weight of 45 gallons of fuel should be around 288-lbs. That makes a total weight of 2,174-lbs. The trailer manufacturer (mom and pop place) is reccommending a 2,300-pound skiff trailer with keel roller that is 86-inche overall width because I want a trailer as small as possible. Does this sound ok?
Perry	posted 10-09-2006 04:09 PM ET (US) The trailer better have brakes. You will be pushing the max tow ratng for your s60 (w/trailer brakes) as it is. The weight of your boat and trailer will be way more than the 2,174 lbs you estimated. It will be closer to 3000 lbs: boat..................1500 lbs trailer...............600 lbs? fuel..................300 lbs battery...............30 lbs cooler/drinks.........70 lbs gear..................100 lbs motor (w/oil & prop)..400 lbs With that kind of weight, I would not tow it with an s60. Uphill towing or stop and go towing will put excessive wear and tear on your drivetrain and brakes. How much do you think it would cost to replace a transmission in a Volvo? Buy a used inexpensive truck and tow it with that.
Marlin	posted 10-10-2006 12:05 AM ET (US) > How much do you think it would cost to replace a transmission in a Volvo? It costs $4000 plus $1200 to install. Trust me.
cmarques	posted 10-10-2006 09:56 PM ET (US) I have a 2630 lb capacity Magic Tilt trailer for my Dauntless 160 that has held up well for 4 years. Their website does not list my trailer anymore but a similar model is in the 420 lb range. I don't have brakes on mine but have felt o.k. towing with a full size pickup. I have towed it with a 1998 S10 pickup that did o.k. but was worried about the weight stopping behind me, a 2003 F150 that did fine although the v6 was barely enough to keep up with highway traffic. I now tow with a 2005 Dodge Ram Hemi which may be overkill but feel very comfortable and the fuel mileage towing is actually better than my previous 2 vehicles(I get almost 12 mpg towing). Even though only 16 ft, the Dauntless is a heavy boat to tow, I think Marlin has a very good combo with the Explorer as I had looked at those and Sport Tracs before getting my Dodge (I work at a Ford dealer with Dodge on the same lot) Chris
pragmatic1	posted 10-11-2006 11:03 AM ET (US) I suppose I could by a used vehicle but then I would need a place to park it, get insurance for it, risk getting a lemon, etc. Why would Volvo rate the S60 at 3300lb towing capacity (trailer w/breaks) if it couldn't handle it? If the tranny did go south wouldn't the warranty cover its replacement? It seems that if transmissions were failing with a 3300lb load Volvo would lower the rating. After all THEY would have to pay for the new transmission, as long as the car was still under warranty, wouldn't they? 3300lbs does sound like alot of weight for such a small car, but it doesn't make sense to me why Volvo would over rate it's towing capacity. It could only hurt them. The towing capacity for an S60 is probably not going to make or break a persons decision to buy one. My Volvo is red so if you see a grey one for sale next year please buy it, you won't have to worry about it's transmission.
Perry	posted 10-11-2006 03:03 PM ET (US) If you really want to tow with your new Volvo, go right ahead. I'm just trying to say that I've owned a Dauntless 160 and towed it with a Ranger with a 3500 lb tow rating. It was not nearly sufficient to tow the heavy boat. I felt it was unsafe for me, my family and others on the road. Pulling close to 90% of your vehicle's tow rating is not a good idea. If not for the wear and tear of your vehicle, for the safety of you and others around you. I ended up buying a F150 4X4 with a V8 to pull my Dauntless 160. It was a much better tow vehicle in my opinion.
Marlin	posted 10-11-2006 06:18 PM ET (US) Yes, you're quite right about all the issues of having a third vehicle. And no, I don't know why Volvo would apparently overrate the tow capacity. Oddly, the capacity is rated even higher in Europe, at 4000 pounds. I cannot say why, but it strikes me as absurd. Volvo makes a reasonable effort to stand behind their product. In my case, the V70 was not far out of its 50,000 mile warranty. Volvo provided a new transmission at no charge, which really was above and beyond the call of duty. I did have to pay $1200 for the installation, however. I am not saying that towing a 160 Dauntless with your S60 will make the transmission fail. But I am saying that the towing performance was never more than just barely adequate, and ramps were often very difficult. Do as you see fit. -Bob
pragmatic1	posted 10-12-2006 05:30 PM ET (US) I want to thank all of you for your input. Here's what I decided to do. I'm going with a higher capacity trailer then I originally planed on. As you pointed out, the extra margin can only be a good thing. I asked the trailer manufacturer about the glide-slicks and he told me that the trailer I'm interested in comes with poly slides which are even better, so I guess that issue is solved. The boat ramp I'll be using most of the time is 500-feet from my house so I think the S60 will be fine. Also, I live on Cape Cod and don't foresee having to trailer the boat any further than 20-miles or so to get to another ramp (water everywhere!). I'm also taking Perry's advice, and if I ever find myself having to trailer the boat any greater distance, I'll either rent a truck or buy a cheap one. So instead of buying a truck now, I'll spend the money on a Mills mooring cover (they are running around $800!). Thanks for all your posts Marlin, I read somewhere else how happy you were with the Mills cover. Thanks again to all. This website is a great resource for info and help. Gary
Marlin	posted 10-13-2006 10:44 AM ET (US) Yes, I'm very happy with the Mills cover. One word of warning- on my boat, the eye strap for the forward bimini straps was attached to the top of the console rail, where it quickly wore a hole through the mooring cover. I drilled out the rivets and moved it to the front of the console rail, where it has lived happily since.
pragmatic1	posted 10-15-2006 07:57 PM ET (US) So much for my earlier decision. Today I traded in my Volvo for a 2004 Explorer (Eddie Bauer). Problem solved.
Marlin	posted 10-15-2006 07:59 PM ET (US) The Volvo's a nice car, and I'm sure you'll miss it sometimes. Like when you're standing at the gas pump, for example. But you certainly won't regret it when you're towing! Good luck, and enjoy the boat! -Bob
Perry	posted 10-16-2006 02:13 AM ET (US) Wise decision