OUTRAGE 25: Re-power with Suzuki Four-Stroke

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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 25: Re-power with Suzuki Four-Stroke

melodi posted 10-07-2006 06:16 PM ET (US)
Dear friends above all: best regards from La Spezia (Ligurian sea near Portofino e 5 Terre) Italy. Now I'd like to have your opinion, please. I bought an 1989 OUTRAGE 25 in excellent condition with two Mercury 150 of the same year. In Italy classic Whalers are in great demand and very expensive. 30,000-euros the boat with old outbords. I'm deciding to repower the boat with a Suzuki four-stroke outboards.
[Should I choose] two 150-HP or the new 300-HP and a 15-HP?
Usually I use the boat only in summer, for bathing and sometimes trolling but usually not far from the coast; maxium 6 miles offshore. Sometimes I go in Corsica Island and the distance from my city is 63 miles, but I go only when the sea is quiet and weather forecast are good.
I read the discussion areas "Twin 150-HP: A Thing of the Past" and other topics. Some friends of mine told me that with one outboard I could have problem of propeller cavitation. I'm awaiting for your opinion.
Ciao--Stefano
maxferran posted 10-08-2006 10:37 PM ET (US)
I would say twins if you would be 40-60 miles away, but that close, you would probably be perfectly fine with single. The advantages of newer engines is that they are very reliable and you very rarely need to limp home. The only advantage of twins over the newer larger engines, is that you can sometimes plane on one of them. If you cannot, stick with the kicker. My father has twin 150 Honda four-strokes on his OUTRAGE 25, and it will not plane on one engine. He used to have two-stroke Evinrude 150's and it would plane on one of those. The speed of a limp home on one four-stroke would only be slightly faster than a kicker. The single engine will be typically be cheaper, more reliable, less maintenance, less fuel, and less weight.
Because of monetary constraints, on my 21-foot I run 250-HP Yamaha and 9-HP Yamaha kicker. If I could afford it, I would put on twin Yamaha four-stroke motors. I only want twins because I will be using the boat much further out than any cellular telephone or marine radio could possibly help me.
jimh posted 10-09-2006 08:31 AM ET (US)
Since your boat is already rigged for twin engines, it will probably be easier to re-power with twin engines. Converting to a single will require re-working the transom, filling and re-finishing eight engine mounting holes, and then drilling eight new holes for the main and auxiliary engine. The cost and complexity of a large single with a small auxiliary is probably close to the cost and requires about the same amount of rigging as a twin engine installation. The total transom weight will be a concern. I think the twin engine installation will weigh more than the main and auxiliary set-up. This may be a factor.
As for performance, it is hard to say if the pair of 150-HP engines will produce better performance or even the same performance as a single engine 300-HP. In rough water boating, I would prefer to have the twin engine boat.
MWH posted 10-09-2006 03:14 PM ET (US)
Stefano,
Why do you plan to repower? Are the motors on your boat in good condition? I ask this because the older 2-stroke motors will last quite awhile if well maintained. I know this because I have a pair of old 150's on my 25 Outrage.
In my opinion you can't go wrong with either set-up (single or twins). IT WILL DEPEND ON HOW YOU PLAN TO USE THE BOAT. If you plan long or far offshore trips go with the twins. On short trips you'll be fine with a big single (Suzuki 300hp). Keep in mind its a new motor with alot of horsepower in a small package (you should probably wait a year or so before repowering with the 300 Suzuki, its a new motor and MAY have a few problems that need addressing) First year engines always need some adjustments. I wouldn't go with anything smaller then a 300, in a single application. Transom weight should not be a problem with a big single either. I probably wouldn't bother with an auxiliary motor, thats just me. The convertion wouldn't be that difficult, because you would need new cables and probably steering anyway for new twins or single. Plugging transom holes and applying gelcoat is easy and you could probably do that work yourself....Good luck in your choice.
Maxferran,
Wow! Your father has twin Honda 4-strokes on a 25 Outrage. That is alot of weight (apprx. combined weight 970lbs dry) I'm not surprised that it won't plane on 1 motor. Does it have the whalerdrive? The max weight load on the whalerdrive 25OR is 950lbs and its rated for twin 225hp. One thing to consider when repowering these older Whalers is weight. Unfortunately, when Whaler designed these hulls they weren't thinking about the heavy 4-strokes of the future. Hopefully your father won't have any problems structural or mechanical.
melodi posted 10-09-2006 04:15 PM ET (US)
Dear MWH, in Italy fuel is very expensive 1,65 us doll. for 1 liter ,so 7,49 us d. x gallon (if i'm not wrong). One of my old Merc 150 '89 consume 66,6 liters x hour . The new 150 4 stroke Suzuki 24 litersx hour ...........so if i use the boat 100 hours a year u can see how much money i can economize..another problem is the ecessive noise of two merc '89 ...........
I accord whith jimh and i'll buy two Suzuki 150. I'll prefer two Suz 175(the same weight and piston desplacement) but in Italy the max power for outrage 25 is 300cv.
I haven't the original manual of instruction of Outrage 25 . Can u help to find it ??
Ciao stefano
maxferran posted 10-09-2006 04:58 PM ET (US)
MWH, no problems with the weigh for three reasons. Without 2 strokes, no more oil res., we moved the batteries into the console, and when we fish tuna, the large chests are in the front of the boat. No whaler drive... reg. cut transom. The marina says we need to keep an extra prop with a different pitch to plane when one goes out.... too much hassle. It will be a very rare trip in on one honda.

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 25: Re-power with Suzuki Four-Stroke
melodi	posted 10-07-2006 06:16 PM ET (US) Dear friends above all: best regards from La Spezia (Ligurian sea near Portofino e 5 Terre) Italy. Now I'd like to have your opinion, please. I bought an 1989 OUTRAGE 25 in excellent condition with two Mercury 150 of the same year. In Italy classic Whalers are in great demand and very expensive. 30,000-euros the boat with old outbords. I'm deciding to repower the boat with a Suzuki four-stroke outboards. [Should I choose] two 150-HP or the new 300-HP and a 15-HP? Usually I use the boat only in summer, for bathing and sometimes trolling but usually not far from the coast; maxium 6 miles offshore. Sometimes I go in Corsica Island and the distance from my city is 63 miles, but I go only when the sea is quiet and weather forecast are good. I read the discussion areas "Twin 150-HP: A Thing of the Past" and other topics. Some friends of mine told me that with one outboard I could have problem of propeller cavitation. I'm awaiting for your opinion. Ciao--Stefano
maxferran	posted 10-08-2006 10:37 PM ET (US) I would say twins if you would be 40-60 miles away, but that close, you would probably be perfectly fine with single. The advantages of newer engines is that they are very reliable and you very rarely need to limp home. The only advantage of twins over the newer larger engines, is that you can sometimes plane on one of them. If you cannot, stick with the kicker. My father has twin 150 Honda four-strokes on his OUTRAGE 25, and it will not plane on one engine. He used to have two-stroke Evinrude 150's and it would plane on one of those. The speed of a limp home on one four-stroke would only be slightly faster than a kicker. The single engine will be typically be cheaper, more reliable, less maintenance, less fuel, and less weight. Because of monetary constraints, on my 21-foot I run 250-HP Yamaha and 9-HP Yamaha kicker. If I could afford it, I would put on twin Yamaha four-stroke motors. I only want twins because I will be using the boat much further out than any cellular telephone or marine radio could possibly help me.
jimh	posted 10-09-2006 08:31 AM ET (US) Since your boat is already rigged for twin engines, it will probably be easier to re-power with twin engines. Converting to a single will require re-working the transom, filling and re-finishing eight engine mounting holes, and then drilling eight new holes for the main and auxiliary engine. The cost and complexity of a large single with a small auxiliary is probably close to the cost and requires about the same amount of rigging as a twin engine installation. The total transom weight will be a concern. I think the twin engine installation will weigh more than the main and auxiliary set-up. This may be a factor. As for performance, it is hard to say if the pair of 150-HP engines will produce better performance or even the same performance as a single engine 300-HP. In rough water boating, I would prefer to have the twin engine boat.
MWH	posted 10-09-2006 03:14 PM ET (US) Stefano, Why do you plan to repower? Are the motors on your boat in good condition? I ask this because the older 2-stroke motors will last quite awhile if well maintained. I know this because I have a pair of old 150's on my 25 Outrage. In my opinion you can't go wrong with either set-up (single or twins). IT WILL DEPEND ON HOW YOU PLAN TO USE THE BOAT. If you plan long or far offshore trips go with the twins. On short trips you'll be fine with a big single (Suzuki 300hp). Keep in mind its a new motor with alot of horsepower in a small package (you should probably wait a year or so before repowering with the 300 Suzuki, its a new motor and MAY have a few problems that need addressing) First year engines always need some adjustments. I wouldn't go with anything smaller then a 300, in a single application. Transom weight should not be a problem with a big single either. I probably wouldn't bother with an auxiliary motor, thats just me. The convertion wouldn't be that difficult, because you would need new cables and probably steering anyway for new twins or single. Plugging transom holes and applying gelcoat is easy and you could probably do that work yourself....Good luck in your choice. Maxferran, Wow! Your father has twin Honda 4-strokes on a 25 Outrage. That is alot of weight (apprx. combined weight 970lbs dry) I'm not surprised that it won't plane on 1 motor. Does it have the whalerdrive? The max weight load on the whalerdrive 25OR is 950lbs and its rated for twin 225hp. One thing to consider when repowering these older Whalers is weight. Unfortunately, when Whaler designed these hulls they weren't thinking about the heavy 4-strokes of the future. Hopefully your father won't have any problems structural or mechanical.
melodi	posted 10-09-2006 04:15 PM ET (US) Dear MWH, in Italy fuel is very expensive 1,65 us doll. for 1 liter ,so 7,49 us d. x gallon (if i'm not wrong). One of my old Merc 150 '89 consume 66,6 liters x hour . The new 150 4 stroke Suzuki 24 litersx hour ...........so if i use the boat 100 hours a year u can see how much money i can economize..another problem is the ecessive noise of two merc '89 ........... I accord whith jimh and i'll buy two Suzuki 150. I'll prefer two Suz 175(the same weight and piston desplacement) but in Italy the max power for outrage 25 is 300cv. I haven't the original manual of instruction of Outrage 25 . Can u help to find it ?? Ciao stefano
maxferran	posted 10-09-2006 04:58 PM ET (US) MWH, no problems with the weigh for three reasons. Without 2 strokes, no more oil res., we moved the batteries into the console, and when we fish tuna, the large chests are in the front of the boat. No whaler drive... reg. cut transom. The marina says we need to keep an extra prop with a different pitch to plane when one goes out.... too much hassle. It will be a very rare trip in on one honda.