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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 20: Kicker Drags In Water, Spray

R I Whaler posted 11-03-2006 08:26 PM ET (US)
1987 Outrage 20, 1987 200-HP Evinrude, new 1996 15 hp Johnson kicker. I just put my new kicker on for a test run. At static position, with kicker raised all the way, the lower unit is in the water. Incidentally, the lower unit of the 200 is also beloe water line when fully tilted up, too. When boat is planning, the kicker is in the direct spray line and kicks up an awful mess. Is this normal? Am I better off installing a kicker bracket to raise it up higher when not in use? I was hoping to rig it so I could steer at the helm, with linkage attaching the steering of the 2 motors. I'd be willing to give that up in order to lose the spray and dragging issue I'm experiencing.
Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike
andygere posted 11-04-2006 02:13 PM ET (US)
Is your kicker mounted as close to the gunwhale side of the transom as possible? I suspect it may be mounted too close to the main engine, resulting in excessive spray. I have a 20" shaft Mercury kicker mounted on my Outrage 22, and while it drags a bit as the boat is coming up on plane, I've never had a problem with excessive spray or water coming into the boat as a result of the kicker.
andygere posted 11-04-2006 02:19 PM ET (US)
Here's a photo taken while the boat is on slow plane. A bit of spray can be seen coming off the kicker, but nothing significant. When the boat is on step and really moving, it disappears. Note that the lean is caused by a combination of the the T-top and a strong beam wind.
R I Whaler posted 11-04-2006 05:36 PM ET (US)
Thanks Andy, I'll try moving it over and see if that makes a difference. I don't see how to access your picture, is there a link?
Mike
Don88outrage posted 11-04-2006 06:58 PM ET (US)
A pin broke off the support plate that locked my 8 hp in the up position, made a "temporary" support out of a 1"x2" x 8" long oak, fitted to wedge in behind the pivot with a piece of 1/4" line attached to the wood support and the lift eye in the well, it's been "temporary" for 5 years now and places the lower end higher than the original lock.
R I Whaler posted 11-04-2006 07:56 PM ET (US)
My kicker is as far to the gunwhale as it can go. It hits the ski tow eye. It did interfere with steering the main engine. Why is a good kicker bracket not a good idea? I've read several comments that it's not the way to go. It sure seems like the kicker would be in a better position when not in use.
DeeVee posted 11-05-2006 12:43 AM ET (US)
My 15 Suzuki kicker is located on top of the ski eye. That is as far to port as I could get it and the bracket/clamp fit over the transom. I may get a little spray before fully on plane, but not much.
I had to extend the lifting eye bolt because it interfered with the trim pin on the kicker motor. Once the towing eye was extended (I think about 1/2" if I remeber correctly), I was able to slide the trim pin into the motor bracket, through the ski eye, then on through the motor bracket.
It is kind of a weird coincidence that the clearances work out the way they do. This set up also serves to double secure the kicker to the transom without through bolting.
I have seen a simple piece of plywood bolted to the transom.This allows the motor location to be offset further from the main engine than would be possible clamped directly to the transom. The plywood also extended high enough above the transom for the bracket clamps to clear the top of the transom. I believe this can be a real nice way of mounting a kicker motor, except for the fun of drilling the transom.
Doug Vazquez
1989 Outrage 22
andygere posted 11-05-2006 01:15 AM ET (US)
Uh, here's the link.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Whaler%20details/ Andybridge.jpg
R I Whaler posted 11-05-2006 08:31 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the replies and nice pic, Andy. I would say mine is kicking up a bigger spray than that. What waterway and bridge is that?
Doug, can you explain further about "extending the eye"? And, also, with the plywood bracket you refer to, does it extend higher than the transom?
Again, what is wrong with a kicker bracket?, they seem to be made to do what we want, lift the motor out of the way when not in use.
Any comments on using a kicker bracket?
Thanks,
Mike
DeeVee posted 11-05-2006 11:06 AM ET (US)
Mike,
The towing eye was in the way of me being able to mount the kicker motor far enough away from the main. The first thing I tried was to remove the towing eye and replace it with a stainless steel nut and washer. This worked fine, except I only had one trailer tie down location and only one towing eye.
One day I was contemplating this problem. I raised the kicker motor and noticed that the tow/lifting eye bolt center point was nearly aligned with the center line of the trim pin. I brought out the towing eye that had been stored for a few weeks and held it in place, between the two sides of the engine bracket. Then I pulled the trim shaft out from the port side of the engine bracket, threaded the tow eye onto the shaft, then pushed the trim pin back into the bracket. With the towing eye hanging from the trim shaft, I rotated the eye up until I was able eye ball a near perfect alignment with the lifting/towing eye through bolt. All that was needed to connect the towing eye to the bolt, was a longer bolt.
I will let a few pictures tell the rest of the story.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/DougV_/kickerandtoweye05.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/DougV_/kickerandtoweye04.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/DougV_/kickerandtoweye02.jpg
About the plywood board, yes, it would extend above the transom, far enough for the clamps to clear the top of the transom, but not so far that a 20" shaft still has plenty of water.
About kicker brackets, I have never liked brackets that are raised and lowered. I feel they place the kicker to far out of reach, because of their length and the lever principle, they add more weight than needed. Then, because of all the hinges involved with going up and down, the flop around too much in less than smooth water, adding more stress to the transom and the kicker motor than needs to be there.
A solid bracket, that does not go up and down, is another thing altogether. I could live with one of those. The only problem I have with the solid brackets, is the fun of drilling the transom with more holes.
I hope this helps out.
Doug Vazquez
1989 Outrage 22
200 Suzuki
andygere posted 11-05-2006 11:52 AM ET (US)
Mike,
My port side tow eye was removed by the original rigger, to prevent interference with the kicker. Mine appears to be mounted in just about the identical location as Doug's.
Regarding scissor-type kicker brackets, they are generally a pain in the neck. I had one on the Montauk I used to own. In general, they have a huge tendency to bounce around while underway on the big engine, and while trailering. I had a very good one made by OMC, however the first thing I had to do when I bought the boat was take it apart and replace every bushing, hinge bolt and load bearing plate because everything was out of round from the excessive bouncing. I made a hardwood shim that I could slip into the mechanism to take some of the load off the hinge points while underway with the big engine, but it did not completely solve the problem. These brackets are also a pain to use, in that you have to lean out over the transom to push the motor down, then strain your back to help haul the motor up. Yes, they are spring assisted, but your back still does most of the work in a rather awkward position. It's also more difficult to rig a steering tie bar using a bracket as well. With the motor mounted on the transom, a simple $50 kit from Cabela's allows facilitates steering the kicker from the helm. A fixed bracket would be a better solution, if it would in fact get the lower unit sufficiently clear of the water surface.
The waterway in the photo is the Sacramento River, at the Rio Vista Bridge.
R I Whaler posted 11-05-2006 04:16 PM ET (US)
Thanks, Doug and Andy. I pull my boat out in two weeks (I'm a New Engalnd diehard). When I do, I can experiment better with your suggestions. I appreciate the reponses and the pics.
Mike
DeeVee posted 11-05-2006 07:24 PM ET (US)
Mike,
I believe a member that goes by JMartin, from the North Puget Sound area, has a kicker set up that uses the board I referred to. You may be able to email him for a picture of his kicker set up. I am sure he has pictures of it.
Doug Vazquez
JMARTIN posted 11-06-2006 11:57 AM ET (US)
A simple set up, but it works. The down side is you are drilling 4 holes in your transom.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/092506038-1.jpg
John
R I Whaler posted 11-06-2006 05:29 PM ET (US)
John, Thanks for the picture. How many inches higher is your bracket than the transom? Does this effect shaft lenght and where shaft lines up with bootm of hull. I assume you have a 20 inch kicker, does in effect make it a shorter shaft? What kind of material is the bracket?
Thanks,
Mike
JMARTIN posted 11-06-2006 06:09 PM ET (US)
Another picture, the boat is not available for measurement, but you can adjust how much motor is going to be in the water by how tall of a kicker mount you put on.
The mount is oak, I think, primed and painted.
I would not want any less kicker in the water than I have now. I will be happy to measure when I get the boat back to the barn. I decided to leave it in the Bridges for another month.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/DSCF0355-2.jpg
John

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 20: Kicker Drags In Water, Spray
R I Whaler	posted 11-03-2006 08:26 PM ET (US) 1987 Outrage 20, 1987 200-HP Evinrude, new 1996 15 hp Johnson kicker. I just put my new kicker on for a test run. At static position, with kicker raised all the way, the lower unit is in the water. Incidentally, the lower unit of the 200 is also beloe water line when fully tilted up, too. When boat is planning, the kicker is in the direct spray line and kicks up an awful mess. Is this normal? Am I better off installing a kicker bracket to raise it up higher when not in use? I was hoping to rig it so I could steer at the helm, with linkage attaching the steering of the 2 motors. I'd be willing to give that up in order to lose the spray and dragging issue I'm experiencing. Any suggestions? Thanks, Mike
andygere	posted 11-04-2006 02:13 PM ET (US) Is your kicker mounted as close to the gunwhale side of the transom as possible? I suspect it may be mounted too close to the main engine, resulting in excessive spray. I have a 20" shaft Mercury kicker mounted on my Outrage 22, and while it drags a bit as the boat is coming up on plane, I've never had a problem with excessive spray or water coming into the boat as a result of the kicker.
andygere	posted 11-04-2006 02:19 PM ET (US) Here's a photo taken while the boat is on slow plane. A bit of spray can be seen coming off the kicker, but nothing significant. When the boat is on step and really moving, it disappears. Note that the lean is caused by a combination of the the T-top and a strong beam wind.
R I Whaler	posted 11-04-2006 05:36 PM ET (US) Thanks Andy, I'll try moving it over and see if that makes a difference. I don't see how to access your picture, is there a link? Mike
Don88outrage	posted 11-04-2006 06:58 PM ET (US) A pin broke off the support plate that locked my 8 hp in the up position, made a "temporary" support out of a 1"x2" x 8" long oak, fitted to wedge in behind the pivot with a piece of 1/4" line attached to the wood support and the lift eye in the well, it's been "temporary" for 5 years now and places the lower end higher than the original lock.
R I Whaler	posted 11-04-2006 07:56 PM ET (US) My kicker is as far to the gunwhale as it can go. It hits the ski tow eye. It did interfere with steering the main engine. Why is a good kicker bracket not a good idea? I've read several comments that it's not the way to go. It sure seems like the kicker would be in a better position when not in use.
DeeVee	posted 11-05-2006 12:43 AM ET (US) My 15 Suzuki kicker is located on top of the ski eye. That is as far to port as I could get it and the bracket/clamp fit over the transom. I may get a little spray before fully on plane, but not much. I had to extend the lifting eye bolt because it interfered with the trim pin on the kicker motor. Once the towing eye was extended (I think about 1/2" if I remeber correctly), I was able to slide the trim pin into the motor bracket, through the ski eye, then on through the motor bracket. It is kind of a weird coincidence that the clearances work out the way they do. This set up also serves to double secure the kicker to the transom without through bolting. I have seen a simple piece of plywood bolted to the transom.This allows the motor location to be offset further from the main engine than would be possible clamped directly to the transom. The plywood also extended high enough above the transom for the bracket clamps to clear the top of the transom. I believe this can be a real nice way of mounting a kicker motor, except for the fun of drilling the transom. Doug Vazquez 1989 Outrage 22
andygere	posted 11-05-2006 01:15 AM ET (US) Uh, here's the link. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/andygere/Whaler%20details/ Andybridge.jpg
R I Whaler	posted 11-05-2006 08:31 AM ET (US) Thanks for the replies and nice pic, Andy. I would say mine is kicking up a bigger spray than that. What waterway and bridge is that? Doug, can you explain further about "extending the eye"? And, also, with the plywood bracket you refer to, does it extend higher than the transom? Again, what is wrong with a kicker bracket?, they seem to be made to do what we want, lift the motor out of the way when not in use. Any comments on using a kicker bracket? Thanks, Mike
DeeVee	posted 11-05-2006 11:06 AM ET (US) Mike, The towing eye was in the way of me being able to mount the kicker motor far enough away from the main. The first thing I tried was to remove the towing eye and replace it with a stainless steel nut and washer. This worked fine, except I only had one trailer tie down location and only one towing eye. One day I was contemplating this problem. I raised the kicker motor and noticed that the tow/lifting eye bolt center point was nearly aligned with the center line of the trim pin. I brought out the towing eye that had been stored for a few weeks and held it in place, between the two sides of the engine bracket. Then I pulled the trim shaft out from the port side of the engine bracket, threaded the tow eye onto the shaft, then pushed the trim pin back into the bracket. With the towing eye hanging from the trim shaft, I rotated the eye up until I was able eye ball a near perfect alignment with the lifting/towing eye through bolt. All that was needed to connect the towing eye to the bolt, was a longer bolt. I will let a few pictures tell the rest of the story. http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/DougV_/kickerandtoweye05.jpg http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/DougV_/kickerandtoweye04.jpg http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/DougV_/kickerandtoweye02.jpg About the plywood board, yes, it would extend above the transom, far enough for the clamps to clear the top of the transom, but not so far that a 20" shaft still has plenty of water. About kicker brackets, I have never liked brackets that are raised and lowered. I feel they place the kicker to far out of reach, because of their length and the lever principle, they add more weight than needed. Then, because of all the hinges involved with going up and down, the flop around too much in less than smooth water, adding more stress to the transom and the kicker motor than needs to be there. A solid bracket, that does not go up and down, is another thing altogether. I could live with one of those. The only problem I have with the solid brackets, is the fun of drilling the transom with more holes. I hope this helps out. Doug Vazquez 1989 Outrage 22 200 Suzuki
andygere	posted 11-05-2006 11:52 AM ET (US) Mike, My port side tow eye was removed by the original rigger, to prevent interference with the kicker. Mine appears to be mounted in just about the identical location as Doug's. Regarding scissor-type kicker brackets, they are generally a pain in the neck. I had one on the Montauk I used to own. In general, they have a huge tendency to bounce around while underway on the big engine, and while trailering. I had a very good one made by OMC, however the first thing I had to do when I bought the boat was take it apart and replace every bushing, hinge bolt and load bearing plate because everything was out of round from the excessive bouncing. I made a hardwood shim that I could slip into the mechanism to take some of the load off the hinge points while underway with the big engine, but it did not completely solve the problem. These brackets are also a pain to use, in that you have to lean out over the transom to push the motor down, then strain your back to help haul the motor up. Yes, they are spring assisted, but your back still does most of the work in a rather awkward position. It's also more difficult to rig a steering tie bar using a bracket as well. With the motor mounted on the transom, a simple $50 kit from Cabela's allows facilitates steering the kicker from the helm. A fixed bracket would be a better solution, if it would in fact get the lower unit sufficiently clear of the water surface. The waterway in the photo is the Sacramento River, at the Rio Vista Bridge.
R I Whaler	posted 11-05-2006 04:16 PM ET (US) Thanks, Doug and Andy. I pull my boat out in two weeks (I'm a New Engalnd diehard). When I do, I can experiment better with your suggestions. I appreciate the reponses and the pics. Mike
DeeVee	posted 11-05-2006 07:24 PM ET (US) Mike, I believe a member that goes by JMartin, from the North Puget Sound area, has a kicker set up that uses the board I referred to. You may be able to email him for a picture of his kicker set up. I am sure he has pictures of it. Doug Vazquez
JMARTIN	posted 11-06-2006 11:57 AM ET (US) A simple set up, but it works. The down side is you are drilling 4 holes in your transom. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/092506038-1.jpg John
R I Whaler	posted 11-06-2006 05:29 PM ET (US) John, Thanks for the picture. How many inches higher is your bracket than the transom? Does this effect shaft lenght and where shaft lines up with bootm of hull. I assume you have a 20 inch kicker, does in effect make it a shorter shaft? What kind of material is the bracket? Thanks, Mike
JMARTIN	posted 11-06-2006 06:09 PM ET (US) Another picture, the boat is not available for measurement, but you can adjust how much motor is going to be in the water by how tall of a kicker mount you put on. The mount is oak, I think, primed and painted. I would not want any less kicker in the water than I have now. I will be happy to measure when I get the boat back to the barn. I decided to leave it in the Bridges for another month. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/DSCF0355-2.jpg John