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Author Topic:   Outrage 22 Cuddy with 250-HP Yamaha OX66

crbenny posted 03-16-2007 09:45 AM ET (US)
I recently bought Blackbeard's OX66's off his Conquest. The propellers are 17-inch pitch and I know they won't even be a starting point. The general concensus is usually to start with 19-inch pitch and go from there but I can't help but think this would be a bit small as well. When I look through the archives the closest I can find is an Outrage 22 Whaler Drive with a T-top and bottom paint, and he was spinning a 19-inch propeller to 5,300-RPM. I have an OUTRAGE 22 Cuddy with no bottom paint and no T-top. Can I spin a 21-inch-pitch propeller? If so, does anyone have one? I've gotta believe this thing would do well over 50-MPH!
Chris
Tom W Clark posted 03-16-2007 10:14 AM ET (US)
Chris,
I have several propellers that may work well for you:
13-7/8" x 21" Mercury Laser II, (three blade)
14" x 21" Mercruy Offshore, (four blade)
15-1/4" x 19" Mercury Mirage Plus, (three blade)
14-1/4" x 19" Stiletto Advantage II, (three blade)
14-1/4" x 20" Turbo Turbo II, (three blade)
Remember the Stiletto and Turbos tend to perform like a prop with more pitch.
Peter posted 03-16-2007 10:14 AM ET (US)
I used to have a Revenge 22 with a Yamaha 225OX66 which turned a 15 1/4 x 17 Yamaha Saltwater Series (SWS) propeller to about 5300 RPM (5500 RPM max for Ox66s). Given that the Outrage 22 is lighter and you have more HP, the 250 might be able to turn a 21 inch Yamaha propeller but I would try a 15 x 19 Yamaha SWS first. You really want to make sure that the WOT RPM are as close to 5500 as you can get as you get with lets say 1/3 to 1/2 of your fully loaded condition.
John from Madison CT posted 03-16-2007 11:23 AM ET (US)
When I had my 22' Outrage ('88 hull with Whaler Drive), I had the same engine, 250hp Ox66 Yamaha. I turned a 19" pitch Yamaha Saltwater Series prop. (15.25 x 19")
WOT, trimmed out, I hit 5400 RPM's. This was the right prop for this boat.
John from Madison CT posted 03-16-2007 11:24 AM ET (US)
BTW, without a Tee-Top, the 21" pitch might just work, but I'd still go with a 19".
Tom W Clark posted 03-16-2007 12:59 PM ET (US)
Chris,
Does your boat have Whaler Drive or not?
crbenny posted 03-16-2007 01:57 PM ET (US)
Tom, she's an open transom. I believe that the Mirage Plus is best when considering the props you've listed. I have Blackbeard's twin engine 704 binnacle and ign. switches and I'd love to add an 8hp four stroke power everything kicker. When I consider the extra 110# maybe the 19" will be enough.
John, yours is the boat I was refering to. When I look at your setup and results I think 21" Now you were running a Saltwater Series Yamaha prop correct? I wonder if the Mirage bites a little harder?
crbenny posted 03-22-2007 05:37 PM ET (US)
Hey, you guys are still out there aren't you? Tom, I know you deal in props.. can you use my L/R polished 17's in trade? Boy, would I love to try an Enertia 21" but I've gotta believe the Mirage Plus or Yamaha Saltwater Series which I understand is a Mirage knock off, would work quite well. Any other input on speed and pitch?
Thanks,
Chris
Tom W Clark posted 03-22-2007 07:34 PM ET (US)
Chris,
I really think the 19" Mirage Plus is going to be the ticket. You're welcome to borrow one to test.
jimh posted 03-22-2007 09:50 PM ET (US)
I am totally confused here. Do you have TWIN 250-HP Yamaha OX-66 motors on an OUTRAGE 22 Cuddy?
John from Madison CT posted 03-23-2007 07:59 AM ET (US)
I've have always been happy with the Yamaha Saltwater Series props on my 250hp Ox66 engines. They bite well, don't cavitate, good low and high end.. Etc..
crbenny posted 03-23-2007 08:00 AM ET (US)
I bought the pair Jim. Blackbeard did his Godfather routine.. he made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I'll mount one and pickle the other until a friend needs it, or I find another sweet 22' Outrage in need of repower or maybe I'll sell it if one of you guys needs it. They have just 200hrs. and everywhere I look or inspect or put a tool to indicates that they were very well cared for.
Tom, I appreciate your kind offer and your input, but I won't get a chance to try her out anytime soon. I haven't even decided which engine to mount at this point. I leave next week for the shipyard in Mobile to seatrial Hawaii's new superferry (hawaiisuperferry.com) and run it through the canal and out to Honolulu. The treehuggers are being a real pain but if everything goes well I'll be back around the end of July. For now I'm enjoying the research and speculation and if a great deal comes along for the right prop I'll buy it! What do you want for one of those 19" Mirages? Do you have any lefthands or are they all rights?
Thanks,
Chris
Tom W Clark posted 03-23-2007 09:03 AM ET (US)
Chris,
Ah, so this is an academic discussion. When you get your boat wet, we can revisit the idea.
Yes, I have a left hand Mirage Plus with 19" pitch as well as a left hand Mercury Offshore four blade.
crbenny posted 03-26-2007 05:02 PM ET (US)
I just read a post from Andygere dated Oct. '05 in which he was considering repowering his 22' Outrage Cuddy with a new E-tec. Most of the way down the post Seahorse piped in with a firsthand account of a 22' Outrage CC with a new 225 E-tec and a 19" prop. He said it spun right past 6000 rpms. They tried a 21" Viper next and hit 54 mph with a half tank of gas and 2 people. Now maybe the 225 E-tec is strong but it's not stronger than 247.5 hp and I think we all agree the 250hp OX66 is a strong performer. I don't know if the boat Seahorse refers to has a T-top or bottom paint but I know mine has neither. I don't know if I'm trying to convince myself or you guys but I still think a 21" prop will be a good starting point however I'm still not sure which 21"
Chris
Peter posted 03-27-2007 07:12 AM ET (US)
Based on John's report of his Yamaha 250 on a 22 Outrage WD being able to twist a 19 inch Yamaha Saltwater Series to 5400 RPM, you might be able to get the motor in the "Zone" (5200 to 5500 RPM) with a 21 inch Saltwater Series prop. You just won't know until you give a 19 or 21 a try.
Also, to get properly in the zone, you need to make sure that the O2 sensor is clean. A dirty O2 sensor will cause the motor to lose revs at the top as well as run rough. To keep the O2 sensor clean, use Ringfree or equivalent in the gas.
crbenny posted 03-30-2007 07:23 AM ET (US)
I agree Peter..it's all speculation and I see where Tom is coming from. I think he's saying I might be able to turn a 21" wheel under good conditions however I can certainly spin a 19" under all conditions and it's best to err on the side of conservative, and I know he's right.
As far as the O2 sensor, when it's fouled I thought the engine tended to run rich in all conditions except when the hammer is down? I understand there's a specific tool for removing this.. it might be a good idea to get one of those. Wasn't the O2 redesign in '99?
Chris
Peter posted 03-30-2007 08:02 AM ET (US)
Yes, when the O2 sensor gets fouled, I believe the motor tends to run rich causing the spark plugs to foul further fouling up the O2 sensor. I think this is so even with the "hammer down". The tell tale sign is rough running and the inability to see the typical WOT rpms. For example, my former model year 2000 225 would turn about 5300 at WOT but when the O2 sensor got dirty, 4800 to 4900 was the maximum.
Also, the ordinary NGK plugs only seemed to last about 50 hours on my 225.
I think the housing for the O2 sensor was redesigned in about 1999 to make the opening a little larger or something like that.
I remember seeing an article on the Internet some years ago that explained how to clean/test the O2 sensor. Fortunately, I never had to do that. A shock treatment of Ringfree and new plugs seemed to do the job.
My advice with that motor is if you keep the O2 sensor happy and you'll be happy.
Peter posted 03-30-2007 08:12 AM ET (US)
One other point, as you probably know, the motor runs a cylinder management scheme whereby up to ~850 RPM, its running on only 5 cylinders, between 850 and ~2100 RPM its running on only 4 cylinders and above ~2100 RPM, it uses all 6. You'll find the need to avoid setting the throttle at a point where the motor is transitioning between the 4 and 6 cylinder mode.
~2100 RPM is exactly where my Revenge popped up over the bow wave to get on plane so avoidance was not a problem. However, I suspect that the 4 to 6 cylinder transition point may occur at a different point relative to boat speed for your Outrage if running a 19 or 21 inch prop. One thought I had is that a 21 inch propeller might adversely impact slow plane capability. Slow plane was not a problem for me because the 225 was only turning a 17 inch SWS propeller and, as mentioned, the 4 to 6 transition coincided perfectly with the boat getting on plane.

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Author	Topic: Outrage 22 Cuddy with 250-HP Yamaha OX66
crbenny	posted 03-16-2007 09:45 AM ET (US) I recently bought Blackbeard's OX66's off his Conquest. The propellers are 17-inch pitch and I know they won't even be a starting point. The general concensus is usually to start with 19-inch pitch and go from there but I can't help but think this would be a bit small as well. When I look through the archives the closest I can find is an Outrage 22 Whaler Drive with a T-top and bottom paint, and he was spinning a 19-inch propeller to 5,300-RPM. I have an OUTRAGE 22 Cuddy with no bottom paint and no T-top. Can I spin a 21-inch-pitch propeller? If so, does anyone have one? I've gotta believe this thing would do well over 50-MPH! Chris
Tom W Clark	posted 03-16-2007 10:14 AM ET (US) Chris, I have several propellers that may work well for you: 13-7/8" x 21" Mercury Laser II, (three blade) 14" x 21" Mercruy Offshore, (four blade) 15-1/4" x 19" Mercury Mirage Plus, (three blade) 14-1/4" x 19" Stiletto Advantage II, (three blade) 14-1/4" x 20" Turbo Turbo II, (three blade) Remember the Stiletto and Turbos tend to perform like a prop with more pitch.
Peter	posted 03-16-2007 10:14 AM ET (US) I used to have a Revenge 22 with a Yamaha 225OX66 which turned a 15 1/4 x 17 Yamaha Saltwater Series (SWS) propeller to about 5300 RPM (5500 RPM max for Ox66s). Given that the Outrage 22 is lighter and you have more HP, the 250 might be able to turn a 21 inch Yamaha propeller but I would try a 15 x 19 Yamaha SWS first. You really want to make sure that the WOT RPM are as close to 5500 as you can get as you get with lets say 1/3 to 1/2 of your fully loaded condition.
John from Madison CT	posted 03-16-2007 11:23 AM ET (US) When I had my 22' Outrage ('88 hull with Whaler Drive), I had the same engine, 250hp Ox66 Yamaha. I turned a 19" pitch Yamaha Saltwater Series prop. (15.25 x 19") WOT, trimmed out, I hit 5400 RPM's. This was the right prop for this boat.
John from Madison CT	posted 03-16-2007 11:24 AM ET (US) BTW, without a Tee-Top, the 21" pitch might just work, but I'd still go with a 19".
Tom W Clark	posted 03-16-2007 12:59 PM ET (US) Chris, Does your boat have Whaler Drive or not?
crbenny	posted 03-16-2007 01:57 PM ET (US) Tom, she's an open transom. I believe that the Mirage Plus is best when considering the props you've listed. I have Blackbeard's twin engine 704 binnacle and ign. switches and I'd love to add an 8hp four stroke power everything kicker. When I consider the extra 110# maybe the 19" will be enough. John, yours is the boat I was refering to. When I look at your setup and results I think 21" Now you were running a Saltwater Series Yamaha prop correct? I wonder if the Mirage bites a little harder?
crbenny	posted 03-22-2007 05:37 PM ET (US) Hey, you guys are still out there aren't you? Tom, I know you deal in props.. can you use my L/R polished 17's in trade? Boy, would I love to try an Enertia 21" but I've gotta believe the Mirage Plus or Yamaha Saltwater Series which I understand is a Mirage knock off, would work quite well. Any other input on speed and pitch? Thanks, Chris
Tom W Clark	posted 03-22-2007 07:34 PM ET (US) Chris, I really think the 19" Mirage Plus is going to be the ticket. You're welcome to borrow one to test.
jimh	posted 03-22-2007 09:50 PM ET (US) I am totally confused here. Do you have TWIN 250-HP Yamaha OX-66 motors on an OUTRAGE 22 Cuddy?
John from Madison CT	posted 03-23-2007 07:59 AM ET (US) I've have always been happy with the Yamaha Saltwater Series props on my 250hp Ox66 engines. They bite well, don't cavitate, good low and high end.. Etc..
crbenny	posted 03-23-2007 08:00 AM ET (US) I bought the pair Jim. Blackbeard did his Godfather routine.. he made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I'll mount one and pickle the other until a friend needs it, or I find another sweet 22' Outrage in need of repower or maybe I'll sell it if one of you guys needs it. They have just 200hrs. and everywhere I look or inspect or put a tool to indicates that they were very well cared for. Tom, I appreciate your kind offer and your input, but I won't get a chance to try her out anytime soon. I haven't even decided which engine to mount at this point. I leave next week for the shipyard in Mobile to seatrial Hawaii's new superferry (hawaiisuperferry.com) and run it through the canal and out to Honolulu. The treehuggers are being a real pain but if everything goes well I'll be back around the end of July. For now I'm enjoying the research and speculation and if a great deal comes along for the right prop I'll buy it! What do you want for one of those 19" Mirages? Do you have any lefthands or are they all rights? Thanks, Chris
Tom W Clark	posted 03-23-2007 09:03 AM ET (US) Chris, Ah, so this is an academic discussion. When you get your boat wet, we can revisit the idea. Yes, I have a left hand Mirage Plus with 19" pitch as well as a left hand Mercury Offshore four blade.
crbenny	posted 03-26-2007 05:02 PM ET (US) I just read a post from Andygere dated Oct. '05 in which he was considering repowering his 22' Outrage Cuddy with a new E-tec. Most of the way down the post Seahorse piped in with a firsthand account of a 22' Outrage CC with a new 225 E-tec and a 19" prop. He said it spun right past 6000 rpms. They tried a 21" Viper next and hit 54 mph with a half tank of gas and 2 people. Now maybe the 225 E-tec is strong but it's not stronger than 247.5 hp and I think we all agree the 250hp OX66 is a strong performer. I don't know if the boat Seahorse refers to has a T-top or bottom paint but I know mine has neither. I don't know if I'm trying to convince myself or you guys but I still think a 21" prop will be a good starting point however I'm still not sure which 21" Chris
Peter	posted 03-27-2007 07:12 AM ET (US) Based on John's report of his Yamaha 250 on a 22 Outrage WD being able to twist a 19 inch Yamaha Saltwater Series to 5400 RPM, you might be able to get the motor in the "Zone" (5200 to 5500 RPM) with a 21 inch Saltwater Series prop. You just won't know until you give a 19 or 21 a try. Also, to get properly in the zone, you need to make sure that the O2 sensor is clean. A dirty O2 sensor will cause the motor to lose revs at the top as well as run rough. To keep the O2 sensor clean, use Ringfree or equivalent in the gas.
crbenny	posted 03-30-2007 07:23 AM ET (US) I agree Peter..it's all speculation and I see where Tom is coming from. I think he's saying I might be able to turn a 21" wheel under good conditions however I can certainly spin a 19" under all conditions and it's best to err on the side of conservative, and I know he's right. As far as the O2 sensor, when it's fouled I thought the engine tended to run rich in all conditions except when the hammer is down? I understand there's a specific tool for removing this.. it might be a good idea to get one of those. Wasn't the O2 redesign in '99? Chris
Peter	posted 03-30-2007 08:02 AM ET (US) Yes, when the O2 sensor gets fouled, I believe the motor tends to run rich causing the spark plugs to foul further fouling up the O2 sensor. I think this is so even with the "hammer down". The tell tale sign is rough running and the inability to see the typical WOT rpms. For example, my former model year 2000 225 would turn about 5300 at WOT but when the O2 sensor got dirty, 4800 to 4900 was the maximum. Also, the ordinary NGK plugs only seemed to last about 50 hours on my 225. I think the housing for the O2 sensor was redesigned in about 1999 to make the opening a little larger or something like that. I remember seeing an article on the Internet some years ago that explained how to clean/test the O2 sensor. Fortunately, I never had to do that. A shock treatment of Ringfree and new plugs seemed to do the job. My advice with that motor is if you keep the O2 sensor happy and you'll be happy.
Peter	posted 03-30-2007 08:12 AM ET (US) One other point, as you probably know, the motor runs a cylinder management scheme whereby up to ~850 RPM, its running on only 5 cylinders, between 850 and ~2100 RPM its running on only 4 cylinders and above ~2100 RPM, it uses all 6. You'll find the need to avoid setting the throttle at a point where the motor is transitioning between the 4 and 6 cylinder mode. ~2100 RPM is exactly where my Revenge popped up over the bow wave to get on plane so avoidance was not a problem. However, I suspect that the 4 to 6 cylinder transition point may occur at a different point relative to boat speed for your Outrage if running a 19 or 21 inch prop. One thought I had is that a 21 inch propeller might adversely impact slow plane capability. Slow plane was not a problem for me because the 225 was only turning a 17 inch SWS propeller and, as mentioned, the 4 to 6 transition coincided perfectly with the boat getting on plane.