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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance Mercury Verado News
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Author | Topic: Mercury Verado News |
L H G |
posted 06-26-2007 10:05 PM ET (US)
This impressive news release by Mercury Marine should be of interest to Whaler owners, whether for repowering or new Whaler purchases, dated June 20, 2007:
I am happy to see the R&D work at Mercury continues. |
jimh |
posted 06-26-2007 10:46 PM ET (US)
If the claimed improvements are obtained in real world tests, this will be a very significant enhancement for Verado. A differential in fuel consumption of 40-percent these days, with fuel routinely above $4 per gallon at on-water gas docks, is going to be a strong enticement. |
Teak Oil |
posted 06-27-2007 03:54 PM ET (US)
Translation: When the Verado was first introduced it had a fat fuel curve to keep the combustion temps down and keep the pistons from melting, preventing a PR disaster and making sure the Verado launch was without a hiccup. Now that the Verado has been out a couple years we are leaning out the fuel curve and turning up the boost, and to prevent melted pistons and warrantee claims we had to make the pistons forged and give the cranks better bearings. Forged internals are mandatory on boosted engines, I am surprised they were not in Verados from the start. |
JayR |
posted 06-27-2007 04:04 PM ET (US)
So Larry, when will your ribbed Outrage see one of these Verado's? That motor still running strong? |
Peter |
posted 06-27-2007 07:02 PM ET (US)
Given that the test reports show the OLD Verado 150 consuming between 19 and 20.5 GPH at WOT, and about 6 to 6.5 GPH at 4000 RPM (I'm guessing is a typical cruising RPM), a 22 percent reduction at WOT and an 18 percent reduction at cruising speed suggests the NEW Verado 150 should not burn more than about 15 to 15.5 GPH at WOT and about 5 GPH at 4000 RPM. This brings fuel consumption in-line with the other manufacturers. Claims of 40 percent better then Evinrude and 23 percent less than Suzuki seem a bit far fetched to me, but heck, when they use undisclosed Mercury testing standards, anything is possible. The OLD Verado with allegedly improved fuel economy is not 3-Star certified. The burning question for me is whether the NEW forged piston Verado can be certified to 3-Stars while maintaining good fuel economy. In the past in response to the criticism of the Verado not meeting 3-Stars, LHG has said something to the effect of "so what, who cares about 3-Stars". Well the EPA does and is proposing to implement stricter emissions standards (16 g/kw-hr HC+NOX and 200 g/kw-hr CO for motors above 40kW) going into play as soon as 2009. This is basically the California 3-Star limit but with CO being regulated for the first time. See www.epa.gov/otaq/marinesi.htm generally and click on www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/marinesi-equipld/420f07032.htm if you are having trouble sleeping. |
Jordi |
posted 06-28-2007 08:42 AM ET (US)
Peter/Teak oil, My understanding was in 2007 Verado changed from three-star to two-star rating to improve fuel efficiency. Apparently a 15% fuel efficiency gain in boats smaller than 30 feet. What was done to the "old" Verado to achieve these gains? Teak Oil, based on your explanation, do the new Verados run at higher operating temperatures and hence the "forged pistons" upgrades? |
jimh |
posted 06-29-2007 09:12 PM ET (US)
I have two comments. One about the reaction so far to this announcement, and another about the announced new motors. The claim of 40-percent better fuel economy than competitor's motors is quite a startling claim, and, to be honest, I am somewhat surprised at the relatively calm and muted reaction to Mercury's announcement of having achieved this breakthrough. Boaters have shown an astonishing amount of skepticism to claims like this, even when they are demonstrated, filmed, and shown to them in full motion picture, color, and sound. Maybe the relative modesty of a press release has not awakened the non-believers, yet. The inference I make from the press release is that these modifications involve substantive, physical changes in the design of the motors, and they are not just changes of code contained in firmware. This means that the new generation of Verado--the VERADO GEN-2 if you will allow me to give it a reasonable name--will be a distinctly different motor from the original VERADO. And owners of VERADO motors will not be able to upgrade to VERADO GEN-2 motors except by selling their motors and buying new motors. |
where2 |
posted 06-29-2007 11:26 PM ET (US)
If you pick up a book on forced induction engines and a book on fuel inection theory, you begin to grasp why working temperatures go up as you raise boost and run the mixture closer to what produces the least NOx emissions. I am very surprised that Mercury was running anything other than forged pistons. I have had a supercharged car in the garage for ten years, and read a wonderful book on fuel injection theory entitled: "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management". It's a good read if you're into 4-stroke fuel injection, and general combustion engine theory. It touches the concept of boosted engines, but does not strictly focus on them. Those first generation Verado engines must have been running seriously rich to keep from melting pistons. Some automobile engine makers have used special oil squirters directed at the bottom of the pistons to help dissipate the additional heat of running forced induction. I honestly have never thought to look at the cut-away Verado to see if Mercury did this. Anyone know?
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Jordi |
posted 06-30-2007 08:55 AM ET (US)
Jim, Your inference is right on the money. The changes are considerable with regards to generation one vs. generation two. First generation Verados used oil jets to squirt oil under the pistons to cool them. Second generation Verados removed the oil jets and use forged oil dams to withstand the heat. Mercury has been forced to address the fuel inefficiency of Verados and hence this considerable overhaul. Are the old “oil jets” engines more reliable than the “new” forged or vice versa? Clearly Mercury is still improving their Verado product line. It will be interesting to see how Mercury Verado establishes its reliability record with all these changes. For those folks waiting for a proven track record on the Verado product line before purchasing, it looks like the wait is going to be longer. |
Teak Oil |
posted 07-04-2007 08:59 PM ET (US)
Jordi only time will tell if the new Verado is dependable, but it will certainly run hotter under the clyinder head. Hotter engines means that there is less room for error, so in 5-7 years when cooling passages start to plug with corrosion and impellers get tired we will see. Given how good Mercury's R&D dept is I would not expect Verados to start melting pistons at random, and if they did, Mercury would probably stand behind this motor as they have to much to lose. Once the Verado is three star rated again Mercury will no doubt make a big deal about it, even though other manufacturers have already been at this rating for years. |
jimh |
posted 07-11-2007 11:33 PM ET (US)
This video presentation from Mercury explains the changes to the VERADO GEN 2 motor which give it significantly better fuel economy: [Thanks to R Green for the notice of this information being available.] |
Jordi |
posted 07-12-2007 01:44 PM ET (US)
Jim, The fuel efficiency gains on the new Verado (Gen 2) are only apparent above 5000 RPM. In the range between 1000-4000 RPM's the old Verado (Gen 1) is actually slightly more fuel efficient. For those folks that routinely fly above 5000 RPM's for extended periods of time the gains are considerable. For the rest of us the fuel gains will be marginal below 5000 RPM's. If the fuel gains would have been achieved at the cruising speeds of 3000-4000 RPM's that would be a different story. Enclosed is a reference from Boattest.com from the Verado Club site. Jordi http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/gersly123/newmerc-1.jpg |
Jordi |
posted 07-12-2007 02:02 PM ET (US)
Jim, I errouneouly posted the fuel gains only at the higher RPM's. Actually the fuel effciency gains are observable at all the posted RPM ranges. Below the 5000 RPM's the fuel efficiency is present, above 5000 RPM's the difference is considerable. Jordi |
jimh |
posted 07-12-2007 10:56 PM ET (US)
Here is data on fuel consumption comparison from Mercury: |
Yiddil |
posted 07-12-2007 10:56 PM ET (US)
Thats simply astounding to hear about...fuel effeciancy, gen 1 vs Gen 2...thats gonna make a few people unhappy if they just bought the Gen 1. Also I agree that people are skeptical about these kinds of info-mercials... I say lets wait and see what they actually do over time..actually compare them one against another Gen1 vs Gen 2...and also against the other brands...Im reakky astonished about the etec comparrison....that would make the ETEC 150-175 a Gas Guzzler compared to the 150 Verado Gen2...even with the weight differences...or is the 150 Verado now 400 and 510 lbs?? Interesting stuff...Im excited when products get better and make the competitors try harder to do better, then we all win... all except for the recent Verado buyers:)) hehe |
jimh |
posted 07-12-2007 10:58 PM ET (US)
http://www.boattest.com/images-gallery/News/mercsproline.jpg |
gss036 |
posted 07-13-2007 03:57 PM ET (US)
I was at the harbor a couple hours ago and a couple of civilian contractors were loading a new Coast Guard 33 ft Safe Boat onto a trailer. To my surprise, it had(3) 275HP Verado's on the back of it. WOW! That is a lot of power. I asked about them and they were not aware of the GENII engines but said these were brand new engines, as was the boat. I asked how it ran, they it is great but they are having issues with the lower ends as the engines are producing massive amounts of torque. The new 33 ft boat makes for a better looking boat than the older 25's. |
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