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Author Topic:   24 ft Seasport vrs 25 ft Outrage in chop

towboater posted 07-05-2007 09:24 PM ET (US)
July 4th. 1430. Beautiful day that proved there is nowhere else in this nation I would rather live.
5 adults, 1 10 yr old in Dads Seasport.
Heading back from Sturgeon fishing in the Lower Columbia River Estuary. (no keepers, last day)
The area we were running in creates a fairly unusual chop because it is a fresh and deep water confluence similar to a bar but creates exceptionally steep, sharp 4 foot waves that are very close together compared to normal wind chop.
Running 3k rpms on inj volvo 350 DP, 21 mph...very comfortable...occasional bow drop but overall, my throttle hand was free. We were catching several similar sized boats ahead but we definitely were not in a race or showing off...not with 6 passengers on a 24 ft boat...no way.
A 25 ft (maybe 27 post classic Guardian) Whaler Outrage with a single big Yamaha on a WD passed us like we were standing still. He only had 3 passengers but I could tell they were as comfortable as mine were...and that is the bottom line.
Dad and I were impressed. I know where the boat is moored and pixs/info forthcoming.
We can go into the virtues of Pilot house vrs console fishing boats in the NW another day.
mk

andygere posted 07-09-2007 11:29 AM ET (US)
Interesting report, but not surprising. I am continually impressed on the sea keeping abilities and dry ride of the bigger classic Outrages. There are a few Sea Sports in my harbor, and I've always thought they were good looking sea boats, so I'd say this is no small compliment for the Whaler. If the boat you saw was cruising easily with a single outboard, I'm sure it was an Outrage 25.
towboater posted 07-10-2007 02:42 AM ET (US)
thx Andy, but, I think it IS suprising if you read all the hype about the SeaSports. & its not all hype, they really are a amazing hull.
Well built, great layout. IMO, a SeaSport absolutely KILLS any Conquest layout I have seen. I have been aboard several Conquests and Grady's but never had a ride.
My moorage neighbor went out in a Conquest for 2 days straight then went out in a Seasport. After the trip he called his wife and told her they would be buying a Seasport asap.
Ive had a 78 24 ft SeaRay hardtop IO. 30 ft Skagit with twin inboards.
Still have a 78 26 ft Stamas hartop w twin IO's...all moored in the same area for many years.
Whats amazing about the Seasport is that it just doesnt yaw & broach going thru a good sized charter swell off the quarter. The other boats would almost throw you out of your seat if I didnt back off but, this Seasport just plows straight thru, it doesnt yaw and slip & bang...damndest thing Ive ever run. Man, I went thru some nasty shit the other day between Buoy 11 and A jetty during a minus tide max ebb and that boat just goes where you point it.
Yeah, and here Dad and I are cruising along, we are so proud of all this and along comes this whaler. Hehe.
This thread is far from dead.

mk
msl posted 07-11-2007 12:18 PM ET (US)
This by no means disrespect to you in any way, but I do find it hard to believe that a 25' outrage with a single could go thru a true 4 foot chop at over 21 mph without beating the hell out of someone. I have experienced seas in the 6 to 8 foot at about 3 seconds apart (at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel three weeks ago) in my 25' outrage. And during these conditions there were winds up to 25 to 30 mph. We averaged around 9 to 12 mph on this day and had to travel around two miles back to the boat ramp, we were quatering into the sea. In a 3 foot chop (Chesapeake Bay) that is around 2 seconds apart I can average around 18 to 24 mph before it gets to hard on the body. In four footers I would be lucky to get over 18 mph, and I have twin 150 opti max's, on 8" set back jack plates with no trim tabs. Maybe with trim tabs I might be able to get 3 more mph. Last summer we had 4 footer (Atlantic Ocean out of VA) on the way back from offshore fishing that were around 2 to 3 seconds apart(we were in a head sea). On this day we averaged around 12 to 16 mph for over 3 hours as we had to travel around 43 miles and I was pushing the boat to its limit on this day. A sharp chop will decrease you speed more so than rollers. Also when we plan our offshore trips we do not leave the ramp unless the winds are less than 15 mph and the seas have to be less than 5 feet. I have to believe that you were in a good 2 to 3 foot chop, to maintain the speeds that you saw. These are just my personnel thoughts, from my past experience in my 25' outrage, which is an open transom. The whaler drive will provide 2 more feet in overall lenght which would help give a little more speed, although the beam is still the same. If it were a 27' outrage it might be possible, but I have never been on one before. And the 27' outrage has a bigger beam and would have an over all lenght of 29' with the whaler drive.
andygere posted 07-11-2007 12:53 PM ET (US)
It's too bad Whaler has not produced a boat with the PNW style pilot house, in addition to the express style cabins found in the Conquest line. I'm sure that's in part due to influence from Whaler's Florida location. There's no doubt that in foul weather, the pilot house style offers more comfort, and for cruising, more space and amenities.
JMARTIN posted 07-11-2007 02:47 PM ET (US)
Andy, I concur that bigger Whalers are not set up very well for cruising and foul weather. The 24 SeaSport Explorer is on my short list when I can afford to upgrade. I have been looking at used ones, but the I/O engine compartment cover is a pain. They started making some outboard versions a couple of years ago. But since they are only a couple of years old, they are pricey. Maybe I can find an old one they needs to be repowered and convert it to an outboard. I would also need the 2nd steering station in order to solo safely. I am also dreaming, first daughter in college this fall, 2nd one in two years. John
gss036 posted 07-11-2007 04:22 PM ET (US)
They make the Seasports about 3 miles from my house. They have been making the outboard version for quite a few years. If you look around you might find one, but maybe not on the east coast. They are a very popular boat here and in Alaska and stay pretty much sold out on the new ones. They do make the boat up to 32 ft, but that is a big boat. We do see them for sale around here because there are so many sold here.
towboater posted 07-11-2007 11:22 PM ET (US)
msl,
no prob, I appreciate the scrutiny.
Again, this is what I consider a UNUSUAL CHOP. The waves dont really curl or roll, they peak steep and close together like a bunch of 60 degree triangles stacked in a row. Dont believe it? I found triming the SeaSport bow DOWN actually gave better performance than taking everything on the belly. The duo prob did not cavitate at all. Occasionally the bow would send spray into the windows but not bad...yes, this Seasport WANTS to run 3200 rpm, 21 mph...seems like it would run forever at that speed. I havent had time to hook up the flow scan fuel meter or remove the 9.9 merc to have power tilt installed yet.
Again, 3 other very respectable sea worthy boats I have experiance with could not match this performance. Again, we were catching similar sized boats...and then, this friggin post classic 25 goes by us like nuthin. Im goin fishin in the morning and expect to find that boat either on the trailer or out there with us.
----
I have bad news about my 19 project (a bare hull Guardian I bought from a CW member). Now I cant get a title (tags)...at least not with the process the beloved member explained. sigh. Thats what I get for waiting, expecting a seamless transaction so I guess I will spew on the Seasport vrs BW for awhile.
---
gss, I cant afford one either.
My Dad passed away last Feb. My Step Dad is like a real father to me. At the wake, Gino (70) said, (this is no bs)...
"Mike, you know Ive always wanted a SeaSport. I'll make ya a deal, I will buy a SeaSport IF you will take care of it and take me fishing with ya."
Uhhh, I waited for like...2 seconds. OK Gino.
A month later he bought a 2003 24 ft XL with 131 hrs on a 350 inj Volvo DP in Carson City Nevada of all places. We still havent washed all the desert out of it. Actually the boat was mint, getting rid of the desert is our excuse for not catching fish or any other problem we encounter.
He is retired from the Tavern Biz and Real Estate investments. Im very lucky to have two great Dads.
Im not here to brag about SeaSports, I was truely impressed with that BW 25 and I am gonna find out what makes it tick & pass it on asap.
The name of the 25 is CODFATHER. Haze grey CPD gel.
mk

gss036 posted 07-12-2007 01:07 PM ET (US)
Towboater, I hear you, wish I could afford one myself. I had a friend sell his 24 Seasport last year because he felt he did not use it enough to justify the cost.
The chop that you describe sounds like a good "TIDE RIP", we get those at certian places around the San Juans here.
JMARTIN posted 07-12-2007 01:37 PM ET (US)
gss036, I stand corrected. SeaSports have always been available with the outboard option, but did not become popular untill the advent of the big 4 stroke motors. Sounds like I will keep my search up and maybe I can find an older, less expensive, one. I am only 30 miles away from Bellingham. Boondocks has a great web site, and there were actually quite a few for sale by owner at the start of the season, but all had I/0's. John
towboater posted 07-13-2007 03:00 PM ET (US)
slow fishing yesterday, 3 shakers, 1 keeper.
I found the BW 25 on a trailer 2 blocks from my place, was getting dark and I was tired. I can confirm a Yamaha 225 with SS 3 blade wheel that looks very custom. It looks like it is polished.
----
gss, this chop is not tide rip but Ive seen similar rips.
One of the Puget Sound guys described playing around in similar water with his boat near the narrows earlier this summer.
I think this Columbia River chop is isolated (one of a kind). It is caused because of westerlies and a large runout coming from a fairly deep hole and funneled onto a shallow flat sandbar like humps are created in rapids tho the bottom is flat.
ok.
This shoal doesnt scour itself out because the following flood tide basically repeats the same situation in reverse.
Thus, it is a tidal confluence near the meaning of a rip but not quite. And the Columbia River being the largest on the west coast, this being the only place Ive seen it happen, it is a unusual chop.
It is a famous area actually. We call it North Channel, the lower end is called Desdemona Sands. This is a vessel graveyard because it comes up suddenly smack dab in the middle of the lower river. Lewis, Clark & Co documented it, the MV Desdemona came to know it intimately.
mk

Rebeccajo posted 08-10-2008 07:13 PM ET (US)
Have a Sea Sport and love it - just don't get out to use it enough and justify owning it. Great in the white knuckle water of the San Juans

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Author	Topic: 24 ft Seasport vrs 25 ft Outrage in chop
towboater	posted 07-05-2007 09:24 PM ET (US) July 4th. 1430. Beautiful day that proved there is nowhere else in this nation I would rather live. 5 adults, 1 10 yr old in Dads Seasport. Heading back from Sturgeon fishing in the Lower Columbia River Estuary. (no keepers, last day) The area we were running in creates a fairly unusual chop because it is a fresh and deep water confluence similar to a bar but creates exceptionally steep, sharp 4 foot waves that are very close together compared to normal wind chop. Running 3k rpms on inj volvo 350 DP, 21 mph...very comfortable...occasional bow drop but overall, my throttle hand was free. We were catching several similar sized boats ahead but we definitely were not in a race or showing off...not with 6 passengers on a 24 ft boat...no way. A 25 ft (maybe 27 post classic Guardian) Whaler Outrage with a single big Yamaha on a WD passed us like we were standing still. He only had 3 passengers but I could tell they were as comfortable as mine were...and that is the bottom line. Dad and I were impressed. I know where the boat is moored and pixs/info forthcoming. We can go into the virtues of Pilot house vrs console fishing boats in the NW another day. mk
andygere	posted 07-09-2007 11:29 AM ET (US) Interesting report, but not surprising. I am continually impressed on the sea keeping abilities and dry ride of the bigger classic Outrages. There are a few Sea Sports in my harbor, and I've always thought they were good looking sea boats, so I'd say this is no small compliment for the Whaler. If the boat you saw was cruising easily with a single outboard, I'm sure it was an Outrage 25.
towboater	posted 07-10-2007 02:42 AM ET (US) thx Andy, but, I think it IS suprising if you read all the hype about the SeaSports. & its not all hype, they really are a amazing hull. Well built, great layout. IMO, a SeaSport absolutely KILLS any Conquest layout I have seen. I have been aboard several Conquests and Grady's but never had a ride. My moorage neighbor went out in a Conquest for 2 days straight then went out in a Seasport. After the trip he called his wife and told her they would be buying a Seasport asap. Ive had a 78 24 ft SeaRay hardtop IO. 30 ft Skagit with twin inboards. Still have a 78 26 ft Stamas hartop w twin IO's...all moored in the same area for many years. Whats amazing about the Seasport is that it just doesnt yaw & broach going thru a good sized charter swell off the quarter. The other boats would almost throw you out of your seat if I didnt back off but, this Seasport just plows straight thru, it doesnt yaw and slip & bang...damndest thing Ive ever run. Man, I went thru some nasty shit the other day between Buoy 11 and A jetty during a minus tide max ebb and that boat just goes where you point it. Yeah, and here Dad and I are cruising along, we are so proud of all this and along comes this whaler. Hehe. This thread is far from dead. mk
msl	posted 07-11-2007 12:18 PM ET (US) This by no means disrespect to you in any way, but I do find it hard to believe that a 25' outrage with a single could go thru a true 4 foot chop at over 21 mph without beating the hell out of someone. I have experienced seas in the 6 to 8 foot at about 3 seconds apart (at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel three weeks ago) in my 25' outrage. And during these conditions there were winds up to 25 to 30 mph. We averaged around 9 to 12 mph on this day and had to travel around two miles back to the boat ramp, we were quatering into the sea. In a 3 foot chop (Chesapeake Bay) that is around 2 seconds apart I can average around 18 to 24 mph before it gets to hard on the body. In four footers I would be lucky to get over 18 mph, and I have twin 150 opti max's, on 8" set back jack plates with no trim tabs. Maybe with trim tabs I might be able to get 3 more mph. Last summer we had 4 footer (Atlantic Ocean out of VA) on the way back from offshore fishing that were around 2 to 3 seconds apart(we were in a head sea). On this day we averaged around 12 to 16 mph for over 3 hours as we had to travel around 43 miles and I was pushing the boat to its limit on this day. A sharp chop will decrease you speed more so than rollers. Also when we plan our offshore trips we do not leave the ramp unless the winds are less than 15 mph and the seas have to be less than 5 feet. I have to believe that you were in a good 2 to 3 foot chop, to maintain the speeds that you saw. These are just my personnel thoughts, from my past experience in my 25' outrage, which is an open transom. The whaler drive will provide 2 more feet in overall lenght which would help give a little more speed, although the beam is still the same. If it were a 27' outrage it might be possible, but I have never been on one before. And the 27' outrage has a bigger beam and would have an over all lenght of 29' with the whaler drive.
andygere	posted 07-11-2007 12:53 PM ET (US) It's too bad Whaler has not produced a boat with the PNW style pilot house, in addition to the express style cabins found in the Conquest line. I'm sure that's in part due to influence from Whaler's Florida location. There's no doubt that in foul weather, the pilot house style offers more comfort, and for cruising, more space and amenities.
JMARTIN	posted 07-11-2007 02:47 PM ET (US) Andy, I concur that bigger Whalers are not set up very well for cruising and foul weather. The 24 SeaSport Explorer is on my short list when I can afford to upgrade. I have been looking at used ones, but the I/O engine compartment cover is a pain. They started making some outboard versions a couple of years ago. But since they are only a couple of years old, they are pricey. Maybe I can find an old one they needs to be repowered and convert it to an outboard. I would also need the 2nd steering station in order to solo safely. I am also dreaming, first daughter in college this fall, 2nd one in two years. John
gss036	posted 07-11-2007 04:22 PM ET (US) They make the Seasports about 3 miles from my house. They have been making the outboard version for quite a few years. If you look around you might find one, but maybe not on the east coast. They are a very popular boat here and in Alaska and stay pretty much sold out on the new ones. They do make the boat up to 32 ft, but that is a big boat. We do see them for sale around here because there are so many sold here.
towboater	posted 07-11-2007 11:22 PM ET (US) msl, no prob, I appreciate the scrutiny. Again, this is what I consider a UNUSUAL CHOP. The waves dont really curl or roll, they peak steep and close together like a bunch of 60 degree triangles stacked in a row. Dont believe it? I found triming the SeaSport bow DOWN actually gave better performance than taking everything on the belly. The duo prob did not cavitate at all. Occasionally the bow would send spray into the windows but not bad...yes, this Seasport WANTS to run 3200 rpm, 21 mph...seems like it would run forever at that speed. I havent had time to hook up the flow scan fuel meter or remove the 9.9 merc to have power tilt installed yet. Again, 3 other very respectable sea worthy boats I have experiance with could not match this performance. Again, we were catching similar sized boats...and then, this friggin post classic 25 goes by us like nuthin. Im goin fishin in the morning and expect to find that boat either on the trailer or out there with us. ---- I have bad news about my 19 project (a bare hull Guardian I bought from a CW member). Now I cant get a title (tags)...at least not with the process the beloved member explained. sigh. Thats what I get for waiting, expecting a seamless transaction so I guess I will spew on the Seasport vrs BW for awhile. --- gss, I cant afford one either. My Dad passed away last Feb. My Step Dad is like a real father to me. At the wake, Gino (70) said, (this is no bs)... "Mike, you know Ive always wanted a SeaSport. I'll make ya a deal, I will buy a SeaSport IF you will take care of it and take me fishing with ya." Uhhh, I waited for like...2 seconds. OK Gino. A month later he bought a 2003 24 ft XL with 131 hrs on a 350 inj Volvo DP in Carson City Nevada of all places. We still havent washed all the desert out of it. Actually the boat was mint, getting rid of the desert is our excuse for not catching fish or any other problem we encounter. He is retired from the Tavern Biz and Real Estate investments. Im very lucky to have two great Dads. Im not here to brag about SeaSports, I was truely impressed with that BW 25 and I am gonna find out what makes it tick & pass it on asap. The name of the 25 is CODFATHER. Haze grey CPD gel. mk
gss036	posted 07-12-2007 01:07 PM ET (US) Towboater, I hear you, wish I could afford one myself. I had a friend sell his 24 Seasport last year because he felt he did not use it enough to justify the cost. The chop that you describe sounds like a good "TIDE RIP", we get those at certian places around the San Juans here.
JMARTIN	posted 07-12-2007 01:37 PM ET (US) gss036, I stand corrected. SeaSports have always been available with the outboard option, but did not become popular untill the advent of the big 4 stroke motors. Sounds like I will keep my search up and maybe I can find an older, less expensive, one. I am only 30 miles away from Bellingham. Boondocks has a great web site, and there were actually quite a few for sale by owner at the start of the season, but all had I/0's. John
towboater	posted 07-13-2007 03:00 PM ET (US) slow fishing yesterday, 3 shakers, 1 keeper. I found the BW 25 on a trailer 2 blocks from my place, was getting dark and I was tired. I can confirm a Yamaha 225 with SS 3 blade wheel that looks very custom. It looks like it is polished. ---- gss, this chop is not tide rip but Ive seen similar rips. One of the Puget Sound guys described playing around in similar water with his boat near the narrows earlier this summer. I think this Columbia River chop is isolated (one of a kind). It is caused because of westerlies and a large runout coming from a fairly deep hole and funneled onto a shallow flat sandbar like humps are created in rapids tho the bottom is flat. ok. This shoal doesnt scour itself out because the following flood tide basically repeats the same situation in reverse. Thus, it is a tidal confluence near the meaning of a rip but not quite. And the Columbia River being the largest on the west coast, this being the only place Ive seen it happen, it is a unusual chop. It is a famous area actually. We call it North Channel, the lower end is called Desdemona Sands. This is a vessel graveyard because it comes up suddenly smack dab in the middle of the lower river. Lewis, Clark & Co documented it, the MV Desdemona came to know it intimately. mk
Rebeccajo	posted 08-10-2008 07:13 PM ET (US) Have a Sea Sport and love it - just don't get out to use it enough and justify owning it. Great in the white knuckle water of the San Juans