posted 08-29-2007 03:19 PM ET (US)        

I have decided that if I replace the motors that it has to be with E-TEC motors. I like the technology and relative simplicity as compared to a four-stroke. I live on an island and good mechanics are rare so you have to do a lot of things yourself. We have an Evinrude dealer that is a friend of mine and he made me a very good offer on a 250-HP. I have also asked him for a quote for 2 x 150-HP, but that will cost me almost 50% more. I wasn’t planning on replacing the motors now, but somebody has offered me good money for both of my old outboard and that makes the deal very attractive. I can also use the savings in gas although it will not justify the investment (gas on the island is $3.70 per gallon).

Should I go for only one engine? There are some clear advantages for example less weight, less cables, more space in de back. I realize that this discussion has been held over and over again but it is only when you have to take the decision that you realize that you have to think twice. I regularly take the boat offshore but never lose sight of land

I am leaning towards the single engine and wonder how good it will perform. What kind of propeller would you recommend?
Your thoughts are welcome

posted 08-30-2007 09:58 AM ET (US)            

I own a 25 Revenge with twin 150s, I often wonder what I would choose if I repowered, so I can sympathize with you on your dilemma.

I suspect you could repower either way, with a single or with twins, and you would be very happy. There is no clear case for either power choice to be better than the other r even more fuel efficient than the other, ins spite of what is proclaimed above.

I also doubt you will actually see a 40 percent improvement in fuel economy if you repower one way or the other. The benefits will be felt more in terms of noise and smoke.

If you were to repower with a single, I would recommend you choose at least a 250 HP motor. I have driven an Outrage 25 with a single Yamaha 250 HPDI and it is a superb power choice. I measured the top speed on that boat in excess of 45 MPH with my own GPS, so don't believe that 40-42 MPH nonsense.

I have also driven a Post Classic 1994 Outrage 24 (wider, deeper V) powered by a Yamaha 250 OX66, and it will do 46 MPH with a 19" Revolution 4.

My own Revenge 25 with it old two stroke 150s will do 48 MPH and get 2.3 MPG, but I have to drive the boat at 35 MPH to achieve that speed and therein lies the one BIG reason I might want to repower it with a single some day. If i could achieve peak fuel economy at a slower speed, the boat would be more comfortable to drive. As it is I am always tempted to speed up even if it is choppy out.

posted 08-31-2007 10:41 AM ET (US)            

Assuming the estimate of 40 to 42 MPH at WOT is a good one, then plugging 5800, 41 MPH, 1.85:1 and 8 percent slip into propeller calculator comes back with a recommendation of 15 inches of pitch.

posted 08-31-2007 11:02 AM ET (US)            

That said, a pair of lightweight E-TEC 150's would provide great reliability, and I'm willing to bet that your Outrage 25 will plane out easily on just one of them.

posted 08-31-2007 11:41 AM ET (US)            

I just upgraded the motor on my 18 Outrage and found this out. Since 1995, OMC/BRP uses the System Check system and they have also changed the steering arm shape apparently when they went to the new FastTrak mid section (about 1991 ish) whereby reuse of the old bullhorn style center hydraulic steering ram that worked with a 1985 Johnson 140 was not possible with the new motor.

posted 09-05-2007 11:28 AM ET (US)            

The previous owner had twin 140hp Johnsons and chose to re-power with a big single on a bracket. I feel it was a good choice. I have near 700hrs on the boat/motor since I got it and feel it is a great combo for my fishing/cruising needs.

I will admit that I also fish on a 255 Conquest with twin 225hp Optimax's and that much power is fun (not cheap!) but what a ride!

On the safety issue, single vs. twins, I recently was 70 miles offshore on a 26' Olympic with a single I/O and a high thrust kicker motor. At 27km from the harbor, the rigid fuel line split and there we were, sitting in the big blue. Started the high thrust kicker and could only make 3-4mph until we hit the current line. Then, we could only stay on station into the current. Two hours later, we fixed the fuel issue and returned home safely.

Twin motors also have the same issues with fuel contamination, ECMs, steering, etc. If you hit some object with your boat, you most likely will hit both twins or the single. That's just the way it goes.

Just some food for thought on your re-power. Also, if you can get some $$$ for your old motors, that would probably swing my vote.

Good luck and keep us posted.

posted 09-05-2007 12:46 PM ET (US)            

I would have a difficult time going back to a single motor after owning a boat with twins, and I can tell you from firsthand experience that patching transom holes is no fun.

But then again, it's not my bank account that's being affected here, its yours! I realize that twins are a harder lump to swallow on the downstroke, and annual maintenance, if you're doing it through your mechanic, might also hit hard...but in a remote location, without SeaTow, and in a big body of water, you can't beat twins for get-home-ability.

There are instances when twins aren't any better than a big single and a kicker...but there are also as many or more where having twins is arguably "better".

Finally, you have to look at resale. When you get into the 25' range there is a growing "expectation" for power. With the newer, larger outboards, that "length range" is growing...but generally someone buying a 25' Whaler wants to go offshore...and when they want to go offshore, they generally want twins.

I'm not saying you're selling anytime soon, but you may at one point in the future, and twins may help keep that pool of potential buyers as large as possible.

Then again, gas could shoot to $20/gallon and everyone buys sailboats...

It's a tough decision, but try to have a little fun when making it.

Good luck!

posted 09-05-2007 01:44 PM ET (US)            

On single vrs twins:
I consider a single WITH KICKER as having twin engines.

My research indicates ANY kicker requires the SAME amount of maint cost/time as a single or twin.

Dont forget to include hardware/install costs when comparing twins to kicker pricing. Ive found kicker mounting brackets, remotes, tilt option and gas line installs a extra cost whereas the twins cost usually incl installs...but not always.

posted 09-05-2007 02:16 PM ET (US)            

It is a difficult decision.
The 25 seems to be a great hull Ive studied often & desired tho Ive never been on one with a single or twin. I like the wide beam boats. I will say that if I was in the market to buy one and had a choice, I would opt for the Classic 25 with twins and expect to pay more.
Im just sayin, the odds of recouping your investment with twins is better than single.

I have run many single and twin eng hulls in the 24-25 ft range with deep V and the twins are more stable...I dont need to constantly figit with the trim tabs. I guarantee you, if you go to a single and dont have trim tabs now, you will need them and should add that cost to the kicker package vrs twins cost. You are probably lookin at a another grand when its all said n done. The holes are there, use em again. Seems simple to plug em up, ok, youve got a new $15k engine and the old holes will be visible unless you hire a pro to match the gel and he will try to sell you on the idea to paint the entire hull or at least the transom area to make everything match because he cant guarantee a spot job wont look tacky.

There is a market for used 2 strokes, but narrow. Ive also spent considerable time shopping because I couldnt justify the cost of a new engine for my purposes. One thing I did learn, whether buyin or selling, when a 2 stroke deal ballparks in your budget, jump on it. If you haggle too much, the deal will be gone.

I think you will regret going to a single w/kicker.

mk

posted 09-06-2007 11:26 AM ET (US)            

I forgot to add that the fuel economy at cruise is the same on the big 255 Conquest with twin 225's as my single 225. The twins don't work as hard or spin up the rpm's that I need to on my single 225. So, that being said, either choice will probably get you similar fuel economy at cruise. WOT is not often seen here in the Pacific of Northern California, so cruise is what I base my performance on.

Don't get me wrong, I love my single 225, but would have bought the boat with twins, single or no power at all. It is the ride of the 25' hull that has me spoiled.
I even looked at a 25' Revenge w/Twins (Tom W. Clark got there first!) so I am not stuck on a big single.

I may one day go to a bigger cabin style boat (Blackfin,Grady,etc.) if I can't find a nice used 27' Classic Whaler.

I did get spoiled with my last work boat:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Waha/Albacore.jpg

65' @ 47 tons and twin 770hp Cummin's QSK19M motors. 2000 gallons of fuel, 17' Zodiac RHI, 27kts @ 2100 rpms and a perma-grin on my face!
But then again, I did not pay for fuel or the motors ;-)

Hope this helps. Good luck.

posted 09-07-2007 07:58 AM ET (US)            

Fishcop; That’s a beautiful work boat. Looks a bit like a classic torpedo boat. You are right about the ride. I was used to the smaller whalers (11',13',15' and 17')and when I took the 25' out for the first time the adrenaline was so high that I almost needed life support. I compare it with taking off in a 747. It must be the same. Soon after that I rescued a 46 Betram that lost both engines when entering Spanish water. There was about 1 feet of water left between the rudders and the reef at the entrance of the bay. I have the story somewhere and will post it in a different section.

Towboater; the boat has trim tabs (Bennet) and I love them. Often people don't realize that I trim all the time. When cruising with people (guests) on board they tend to walk around but then they disturb the balance. In the past I would ask them so please sit back in their original spot but now I just hit the trim tab

Buckda; I think that you are right. My first reaction is the same and I whish I could go for twins but I also think that the boat would perform excellent with a single.
I'm having a lot of fun already just by having these discussions and dreaming about the new motor(s)

Peter ; time will tell I guess that I have to try bothJ

posted 04-24-2009 07:38 AM ET (US)            

I have revived this old thread as I am on the verge of ordering new engines for my outrage 25 through the local dealer. I have decided on 2 E-Tecs 130 hp to replace my thrusted but thirsty 140hp V-4 engines. I will go with aluminum props. Can you give me an idea on the size and pitch? The Engines will be here in 7 weeks

Thank you

posted 04-25-2009 01:32 PM ET (US)            

I checked my quotation again and the dealer has offered 14.25 x19" aluminum propellers.
I currently run 13.25 x 17 aluminum based on a recommendation by Tom Clark . The current propellers give me 40mph at approx 5700 rpm. So based on this history i guess that the new propellers are a bit to much don't you think?

posted 04-25-2009 07:10 PM ET (US)            

The offer of a 14 1/4 inch diameter propeller suggest they might be the 25 inch shaft length model. Typically the V4 gearcase propellers will have a diameter of about 13 1/4 to 14 inches with 14 inch diameter being used for low pitch propellers, such as 9 or 11 inches and 13 1/4 inch diameter being used for high pitch propellers like 19 or 21 inches. The V6 propellers typically have diameters in the range of 14 1/4 to 15 1/2 inches with 15 1/2 being used for the low pitch of 13 inches and 14 1/4 being used for high pitch propellers such as 21 or 23 inches.

posted 04-25-2009 07:38 PM ET (US)            

They are 20" shafts (stated in the quotation) just like the old ones . Thank you for the information. I will for sure take this up with the dealer. He is a knowledgeable guy but he might have gotten the two mixed up. I will close the deal probably on Tuesday. I also have decided to sell the old engines without the props that are relatively new.
Thanks again

posted 04-29-2009 03:43 PM ET (US)            

The dealer asked me to consider a stainless prop. There are several options. What would you recommend?

posted 04-29-2009 06:15 PM ET (US)            

Unless achieving a fast speed at WOT is important, I think I would avoid the Viper. The Vipers are not known to provide good cruise effiency.

posted 04-30-2009 07:13 AM ET (US)            

Larry

Thank you for the link . I'm preparing the boat for the new engines. Removed all the wood and I'm polishing the boat inside and out. After this I will remove the controls and engines. A lot work but also a lot of fun

posted 07-21-2009 04:33 PM ET (US)            

By the way you mentioned to mount the engines one hole or two up. Were you serious about that?