Time to get stainless steel wheels - 18' Outrage, Twin 90 HP E-TECs

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  Time to get stainless steel wheels - 18' Outrage, Twin 90 HP E-TECs

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Time to get stainless steel wheels - 18' Outrage, Twin 90 HP E-TECs

Buckda posted 10-09-2007 07:21 PM ET (US)
Looking for recommendations for SS wheels on my rig.
18' Outrage, often fully loaded. Twin 90 HP E-TEC motors, both RH rotation.
Right now, I'm running the BRP 13.2 x 19 Aluminum Props and seeing just over 50 MPH at 5500 RPM, fully trimmed out (I also have an arch and two 8' Antennas dragging through the wind!).
Considering a pair of 13.25 x 17" Stiletto performance series props.
I'm not necessarily looking for more top speed - I want overall performance.
Suggestions?
Thank you in advance.

Buckda posted 10-09-2007 07:49 PM ET (US)
See previous discussion:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004132.html
I realize that I'm another year out, but I needed to spend my pennies elsewhere. It's time for the new props though. I have a hard time keeping paint on the aluminum props - the motors are definitely deforming them at speed since the base of the blades share the same wear pattern on both props.
RE: some discrepancies in performance numbers in these two threads. I raised the motors up a bit to achieve better performance, and I think the motors have run a little faster since settling in and the addition of trim-tabs to help stablilze the hull at WOT speed.
Thanks.
Dave
dfmcintyre posted 10-09-2007 08:14 PM ET (US)
Dave -
Did you or are you going to switch the props to see if that's the RPM difference?
Oh, and once you get the stainless props, spray them black.
Don
Buckda posted 10-09-2007 09:48 PM ET (US)
Don -
Once I pulled the boat, the problem was clear. The repaired prop did not come back from the shop with the same cup as the OEM prop. You could tell from visual and tactile inspection on the trailer.
That makes sense, since I put that repaired prop on for the Isle Royale trip, and that is when I began to notice the difference.

Why spray a polished SS prop black?
Dave
Tom W Clark posted 10-09-2007 11:03 PM ET (US)
Dave,
The choices for intermediate gearcase motors like yours is very small. I think the Stiletto Advantage Is would be a good choice. There is also the 20" pitch Quicksilver Lightspeed we talked about but that may too much pitch for your loads and typical cruising. There is not a lower pitch in the Laser II/Lightspeed series of propellers.
A superior choice, albeit more expensive, would be the Turbo 1 in the 13-1/4" x 17" or 19" size.
outragesteve posted 10-09-2007 11:50 PM ET (US)
Old trick to paint a prop black: Would-be prop stealers thinks it is just an aluminum junker!
Peter posted 10-10-2007 07:33 AM ET (US)
BRP may still offer the 13 1/2 x 18 Raker for the 13 spline V4 propshaft. That might also be a propeller to consider if you are running the motors at elevated heights.
L H G posted 10-11-2007 06:36 PM ET (US)
Has anybody calculated the slip for 19" props turning 51 MPH through 2.0 gearing? For those kind of numbers, you would normally need 1.86 gearing.
sternorama posted 10-12-2007 04:36 PM ET (US)
Painting also keeps 'em from turning brown with constant salt exposure (I know-not your problem!)
jimh posted 10-12-2007 07:32 PM ET (US)
Is a 90-HP motor powerful enough to cause aluminum propellers to flex under load? I wonder if there is a great deal of performance to be gained with a change to stainless steel from aluminum.
I do acknowledge that there may be greater durability with a stainless steel propeller compared to an aluminum propeller.
jgkmmoore posted 10-12-2007 07:58 PM ET (US)
Painted stainless props, and polished stainless props, are made of different grades of stainless. You can't polish the (originally) painted props, and paint won't hold on the polished props (unless you etch them before painting).Best to buy them how you want 'em the first time.
Tom W Clark posted 10-13-2007 01:00 PM ET (US)
You certainly can polish the OMC/BRP SST and Yamaha Black Steel propellers. I've seen it done and they look just fine.
You can also paint a polished propeller with flat black spray paint and it will stick well but wear off on some spots which is part of what Don was trying to suggest: Make the prop look shabby and it will be less attractive to thieves. Paint the prop yellow or fluorescent orange and nobody will touch it ;-)
Tom W Clark posted 10-13-2007 01:05 PM ET (US)
Larry,
Good point. For Dave's 19" prop to reach 50 MPH at 5500 RPM they would have to operate with a negative slip which is not possible with 19 actual inches of pitch. The 19" BRP aluminum prop must have a greater effective pitch than its nominal 19" designation, or Dave's data is wrong. I suspect the former.
Dave, based on that maybe you should use the 13-1/4" x 19" Advantage I's instead.
Though it is not directly comparable, I do know that the 14-1/4" x 19" Stiletto Advantage II's yielded the same RPM and top speed as the 13-7/8" x 21" Laser II's when used on my own boat.
Jt Nettle posted 10-17-2007 07:22 PM ET (US)
Hello Buckda, I have a set of Omc Vipers 13.7/8 x 17 ss props.I can make you a great deal on the set. If you want to try them first let me know I will send them to you.
JT Nettle
www.nettleprops.com
800-517-7707
jgkmmoore posted 10-18-2007 05:19 PM ET (US)
Tom-
I asked three local, well known prop shops, if they would polish my SST prop. All 3 said no, for the above reasons.I'm going with their answer.
You can paint a greased stripper pole flat black too.....the paint will stick about as long as flat black on a polished prop.
Tom W Clark posted 10-18-2007 08:17 PM ET (US)

Dave,
If you go with the BRP Vipers, you are going to want the 19" pitch.
Jeff,
Actually I will rely on my own experience. Have you ever actually painted a polished propeller?
Buckda posted 10-18-2007 08:44 PM ET (US)
I understand that going "up" 1 inch in pitch decreases your WOT RPM.
What effect does having a larger diameter have on RPM?
For instance, I'm running 13.2 inch diameter props now. Going to 13.75 inch diameter props should decrease my WOT RPM, right?
That makes me think the 17" pitch might be better with .5" additional diameter - right?
JT - I called your office this afternoon, but caught you guys after closing time. Will try to give you a ring tomorrow.
Dave
Tom W Clark posted 10-18-2007 08:58 PM ET (US)
Dave,
There is some logic to that thinking but it would only apply if BRP made their aluminum props in both 13.2" diameters and 13.75" diameters. They don't. For a given model of propeller and pitch, the prop designers determine a diameter.
The Viper (and sibling SST) is a different propeller design. The blade geometry is not the same and thus the performance will not be the same diameter for diameter and pitch for pitch. You really have to judge a particular model of propeller on its own merits.
I do think the BRP SST/Viper line would be good to try on your boat, but I think you will need the 19" pitch, but that is speculation. As always, when trying to find the best prop(s), experiment, experiment, experiment.
towboater posted 10-19-2007 06:25 AM ET (US)
Man, having Tom Clark so forthcoming is like having a custom prop shop dedicated to this site. My 18 project is still waiting for me to finish it.
I recently spent 3 days nosing around West Coast Propeller in Warrenton Oregon watching them marry up my new SS hubs and shafts.
They tell me the main thing they consider when rebuilding a wheel is the hub size/condition and metal content. With that, they could add or subtract pitch, dia, and even cup SS wheels. My point is, with your custom setup & needs, and as Tom always mentions to experiment, keep in mind, once you get close, a good prob shop can tweek em one way or the other.
enjoy.
mk
Plotman posted 10-19-2007 09:40 AM ET (US)
Two comments:
The micro bubbles caused by cavitation can wear paint off of props - this would also produce similar patterns on both wheels.
You can get very, very low slip rates when using twins compared to what you would see when using a single engine. Remember that pitch is only an estimate, but when using twins you have a much larger effective propeller size (double, imagine that), and all other things being equal, a larger prop will have less slip.
boatinpete posted 10-21-2007 09:40 PM ET (US)
To jimh,yes going to stainless from aluminun on a 90 hp,there is a noitcable di.on holeshot and top end.Buckda I've owned several bassboats with OMC engines and used Raker and Viper props,both were excellent props depending on hull.You need to try both props at diffrent pitches.Hopefully your dealer is cooperative .
ratherwhalering posted 10-22-2007 05:59 PM ET (US)
Dave, the Stiletto 13.25 x 17 Advantage I was just a little too much for my Montauk with a 2004 E90DSL. The hole shot wasn't that great, and I was seeing 5200 RPM at 43 MPH. By dropping to a 15-inch, I gained better acelleration, and can hit 5500 RPM at 43MPH.
I wonder if the twins would compensate for the lack luster performance I was seeing from those 17-inch props? If so, the Stilettos would be a sweeeet set up, and very fast to boot. The 19-inch Vipers would be equally nice. I believe you can run the Stilettos higher than the Vipers, so you may also be able to decrease the drag from the lower end.
The E-TEC 90 has its water intakes very low on the gearcase, with a horizontal taper, so I wouldn't worry about raising them up. I'm 3-inches above the lowest keel point and still get great water pressure ar all speeds.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Time to get stainless steel wheels - 18' Outrage, Twin 90 HP E-TECs
Buckda	posted 10-09-2007 07:21 PM ET (US) Looking for recommendations for SS wheels on my rig. 18' Outrage, often fully loaded. Twin 90 HP E-TEC motors, both RH rotation. Right now, I'm running the BRP 13.2 x 19 Aluminum Props and seeing just over 50 MPH at 5500 RPM, fully trimmed out (I also have an arch and two 8' Antennas dragging through the wind!). Considering a pair of 13.25 x 17" Stiletto performance series props. I'm not necessarily looking for more top speed - I want overall performance. Suggestions? Thank you in advance.
Buckda	posted 10-09-2007 07:49 PM ET (US) See previous discussion: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004132.html I realize that I'm another year out, but I needed to spend my pennies elsewhere. It's time for the new props though. I have a hard time keeping paint on the aluminum props - the motors are definitely deforming them at speed since the base of the blades share the same wear pattern on both props. RE: some discrepancies in performance numbers in these two threads. I raised the motors up a bit to achieve better performance, and I think the motors have run a little faster since settling in and the addition of trim-tabs to help stablilze the hull at WOT speed. Thanks. Dave
dfmcintyre	posted 10-09-2007 08:14 PM ET (US) Dave - Did you or are you going to switch the props to see if that's the RPM difference? Oh, and once you get the stainless props, spray them black. Don
Buckda	posted 10-09-2007 09:48 PM ET (US) Don - Once I pulled the boat, the problem was clear. The repaired prop did not come back from the shop with the same cup as the OEM prop. You could tell from visual and tactile inspection on the trailer. That makes sense, since I put that repaired prop on for the Isle Royale trip, and that is when I began to notice the difference. Why spray a polished SS prop black? Dave
Tom W Clark	posted 10-09-2007 11:03 PM ET (US) Dave, The choices for intermediate gearcase motors like yours is very small. I think the Stiletto Advantage Is would be a good choice. There is also the 20" pitch Quicksilver Lightspeed we talked about but that may too much pitch for your loads and typical cruising. There is not a lower pitch in the Laser II/Lightspeed series of propellers. A superior choice, albeit more expensive, would be the Turbo 1 in the 13-1/4" x 17" or 19" size.
outragesteve	posted 10-09-2007 11:50 PM ET (US) Old trick to paint a prop black: Would-be prop stealers thinks it is just an aluminum junker!
Peter	posted 10-10-2007 07:33 AM ET (US) BRP may still offer the 13 1/2 x 18 Raker for the 13 spline V4 propshaft. That might also be a propeller to consider if you are running the motors at elevated heights.
L H G	posted 10-11-2007 06:36 PM ET (US) Has anybody calculated the slip for 19" props turning 51 MPH through 2.0 gearing? For those kind of numbers, you would normally need 1.86 gearing.
sternorama	posted 10-12-2007 04:36 PM ET (US) Painting also keeps 'em from turning brown with constant salt exposure (I know-not your problem!)
jimh	posted 10-12-2007 07:32 PM ET (US) Is a 90-HP motor powerful enough to cause aluminum propellers to flex under load? I wonder if there is a great deal of performance to be gained with a change to stainless steel from aluminum. I do acknowledge that there may be greater durability with a stainless steel propeller compared to an aluminum propeller.
jgkmmoore	posted 10-12-2007 07:58 PM ET (US) Painted stainless props, and polished stainless props, are made of different grades of stainless. You can't polish the (originally) painted props, and paint won't hold on the polished props (unless you etch them before painting).Best to buy them how you want 'em the first time.
Tom W Clark	posted 10-13-2007 01:00 PM ET (US) You certainly can polish the OMC/BRP SST and Yamaha Black Steel propellers. I've seen it done and they look just fine. You can also paint a polished propeller with flat black spray paint and it will stick well but wear off on some spots which is part of what Don was trying to suggest: Make the prop look shabby and it will be less attractive to thieves. Paint the prop yellow or fluorescent orange and nobody will touch it ;-)
Tom W Clark	posted 10-13-2007 01:05 PM ET (US) Larry, Good point. For Dave's 19" prop to reach 50 MPH at 5500 RPM they would have to operate with a negative slip which is not possible with 19 actual inches of pitch. The 19" BRP aluminum prop must have a greater effective pitch than its nominal 19" designation, or Dave's data is wrong. I suspect the former. Dave, based on that maybe you should use the 13-1/4" x 19" Advantage I's instead. Though it is not directly comparable, I do know that the 14-1/4" x 19" Stiletto Advantage II's yielded the same RPM and top speed as the 13-7/8" x 21" Laser II's when used on my own boat.
Jt Nettle	posted 10-17-2007 07:22 PM ET (US) Hello Buckda, I have a set of Omc Vipers 13.7/8 x 17 ss props.I can make you a great deal on the set. If you want to try them first let me know I will send them to you. JT Nettle www.nettleprops.com 800-517-7707
jgkmmoore	posted 10-18-2007 05:19 PM ET (US) Tom- I asked three local, well known prop shops, if they would polish my SST prop. All 3 said no, for the above reasons.I'm going with their answer. You can paint a greased stripper pole flat black too.....the paint will stick about as long as flat black on a polished prop.
Tom W Clark	posted 10-18-2007 08:17 PM ET (US) Dave, If you go with the BRP Vipers, you are going to want the 19" pitch. Jeff, Actually I will rely on my own experience. Have you ever actually painted a polished propeller?
Buckda	posted 10-18-2007 08:44 PM ET (US) I understand that going "up" 1 inch in pitch decreases your WOT RPM. What effect does having a larger diameter have on RPM? For instance, I'm running 13.2 inch diameter props now. Going to 13.75 inch diameter props should decrease my WOT RPM, right? That makes me think the 17" pitch might be better with .5" additional diameter - right? JT - I called your office this afternoon, but caught you guys after closing time. Will try to give you a ring tomorrow. Dave
Tom W Clark	posted 10-18-2007 08:58 PM ET (US) Dave, There is some logic to that thinking but it would only apply if BRP made their aluminum props in both 13.2" diameters and 13.75" diameters. They don't. For a given model of propeller and pitch, the prop designers determine a diameter. The Viper (and sibling SST) is a different propeller design. The blade geometry is not the same and thus the performance will not be the same diameter for diameter and pitch for pitch. You really have to judge a particular model of propeller on its own merits. I do think the BRP SST/Viper line would be good to try on your boat, but I think you will need the 19" pitch, but that is speculation. As always, when trying to find the best prop(s), experiment, experiment, experiment.
towboater	posted 10-19-2007 06:25 AM ET (US) Man, having Tom Clark so forthcoming is like having a custom prop shop dedicated to this site. My 18 project is still waiting for me to finish it. I recently spent 3 days nosing around West Coast Propeller in Warrenton Oregon watching them marry up my new SS hubs and shafts. They tell me the main thing they consider when rebuilding a wheel is the hub size/condition and metal content. With that, they could add or subtract pitch, dia, and even cup SS wheels. My point is, with your custom setup & needs, and as Tom always mentions to experiment, keep in mind, once you get close, a good prob shop can tweek em one way or the other. enjoy. mk
Plotman	posted 10-19-2007 09:40 AM ET (US) Two comments: The micro bubbles caused by cavitation can wear paint off of props - this would also produce similar patterns on both wheels. You can get very, very low slip rates when using twins compared to what you would see when using a single engine. Remember that pitch is only an estimate, but when using twins you have a much larger effective propeller size (double, imagine that), and all other things being equal, a larger prop will have less slip.
boatinpete	posted 10-21-2007 09:40 PM ET (US) To jimh,yes going to stainless from aluminun on a 90 hp,there is a noitcable di.on holeshot and top end.Buckda I've owned several bassboats with OMC engines and used Raker and Viper props,both were excellent props depending on hull.You need to try both props at diffrent pitches.Hopefully your dealer is cooperative .
ratherwhalering	posted 10-22-2007 05:59 PM ET (US) Dave, the Stiletto 13.25 x 17 Advantage I was just a little too much for my Montauk with a 2004 E90DSL. The hole shot wasn't that great, and I was seeing 5200 RPM at 43 MPH. By dropping to a 15-inch, I gained better acelleration, and can hit 5500 RPM at 43MPH. I wonder if the twins would compensate for the lack luster performance I was seeing from those 17-inch props? If so, the Stilettos would be a sweeeet set up, and very fast to boot. The 19-inch Vipers would be equally nice. I believe you can run the Stilettos higher than the Vipers, so you may also be able to decrease the drag from the lower end. The E-TEC 90 has its water intakes very low on the gearcase, with a horizontal taper, so I wouldn't worry about raising them up. I'm 3-inches above the lowest keel point and still get great water pressure ar all speeds.