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Author Topic:   Isolating Source of Fuel Problem

kgregg posted 11-03-2007 03:18 PM ET (US)
All-
I have 1991 Outrage 19 with 1991 Merc 135 2stroke. In past few weeks, the engine has not been running smoothly. I'd idle it at 1200 RPMS and it would stall after 20 seconds. I checked carbs (clean), plug tips (not overly fouled) but could not solve problem. Today, I take 3 gallons of fresh gas (with 10% ethanol) down to boat and run motor directly from this can. It runs fine at any RPM -- no stalling. I did not leave slip to see how engine runs under load. I think the problem is with the 15-20 gals of gas in my internal tank (bought at various times over summer).
The guy in marina office thought problem was that I had mixed gas with 10% ethanol (purchased on west side of Chesapeake Bay) with gas having no ethanol (purchased on eastern side of Chesapeake Bay). Could this be the problem? Has anyone used a combination of gas with/without ethanol at same time? How did your engine run with it? Thanks,
Kevin
Baltimore

fourdfish posted 11-03-2007 03:22 PM ET (US)
No, don't think so! - Unless the gas had some water in it (a Problem)
I use and have mixed the gas from different stations around
here(alcohol and no alcohol) without problems.
It might have been some crap around or on pick up tube screen.
jimh posted 11-04-2007 01:35 PM ET (US)
Decant some of the gasoline from your large tank. Filter it and pour it into your auxiliary tank. Try the engine on that combination. This will give you an indicator of the source of the problem with the fuel in the main tank, that is, the problem causing the engine to run poorly is either the fuel in the main tank or the main tank itself. Putting the fuel from the main tank into another tank and testing it will resolve the ambiguity.
jimh posted 11-04-2007 01:40 PM ET (US)
There is a general recommendation to avoid mixing gasoline which contains ethanol with gasoline which contains MTBE. However, as Fourdy mentions, here in the Midwest we have been getting gasoline diluted with ethanol for years, and, in Michigan, to make matters worse, our Governor is in the back pocket of the Ethanol lobbyists so she ordered all the identification removed from the gas pumps. Like the stupid passive citizenry the Ethanol lobby was hoping for, we now blindly buy gasoline and have no way to tell if there is any ethanol in it. When term limits force our governor from office, she'll probably get a good job in the Ethanol industry helping them to further deceive the public.
myakka posted 11-04-2007 06:36 PM ET (US)
I've been having problems with gas that contains ethanol. The fuel I have been buying contained 10% ethanol according to the sticker on the pump. If I let the boat sit for a week or two it runs like crap. I've stopped using brand X and switched to Chevron. The poor running has ceased.
Mike
RM NY posted 11-06-2007 07:20 PM ET (US)
the biggest problem is when you mix ethanol and non ethanol fuels.
you answered your own question when you ran it on another tank.
drain what you have and start fresh. This was a HUGE problem when it first came out.
If you can get both in your area you can eliminate future problems by not mixing the 2.
fourdfish posted 11-06-2007 07:27 PM ET (US)
Like I said before, around the midwest we have been mixing them for a long time! I have seen other discussions on other web sites which also confirm this!
RM NY posted 11-06-2007 08:35 PM ET (US)
Like I said, when it first came out around here it wrecked havok.
so take it for what its worth.
guy has problems now with mixed fuel, runs test tank of fresh fuel and has no more problems. Seems pretty simple
sternorama posted 11-07-2007 12:09 PM ET (US)
On a previous boat we got wash-down water into our fuel via a bad sending unit gasket. We used an inexpensive barrel pump to remove the bad fuel. Put the old watery gas in home-depo buckets with lids, and took them to the local toxic waste site.
JMARTIN posted 11-07-2007 12:43 PM ET (US)
I thought they discovered that MTBE was nasty stuff, it loves water and migrates. Did they not phase it out? Now when RM NY says there were problems with ethonal when it first came out, that makes sense. I have not heard of a problem mixing an ethonal gasoline with conventional gasoline. The problem I have heard is that ethanol cleans everything, so when it first is introduced, it starts cleaning. Once everything is clean, that problem goes away, Now the 2 stroke, phase seperation, less power, and the other problems with it, they stay around. John
jimh posted 11-08-2007 08:39 AM ET (US)
The use of MTBE as oxygenate in gasoline was halted when it was being found in the water supply. I assume it was being emitted in the exhaust of engines using gasoline which contained MTBE.

To get back to the fellow with the problem, is he still reading this discusison? Has he tried any of the remedies offered?
JMARTIN posted 11-08-2007 11:17 AM ET (US)
It was getting into the ground water from leaking tanks. It could travel long distances to find water. All undergraound storage tanks had to be upgraded by 1998. Tanks are monitored for leaks now, but I do not monitor to prevent polluting. At a cost of 3 bucks a gallon, if I loose one gallon from a leaking tank, I have to sell 30 gallons to break even. John
gss036 posted 11-08-2007 03:57 PM ET (US)
Is it possible that the fuel/water seperater filter is full of water? The gas would sit on top of the water and when it is gone you have no fuel, just water until more gas is pumped into the filter. Maybe your fuelp pump is not woring properly,hole in diaphram??

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Author	Topic: Isolating Source of Fuel Problem
kgregg	posted 11-03-2007 03:18 PM ET (US) All- I have 1991 Outrage 19 with 1991 Merc 135 2stroke. In past few weeks, the engine has not been running smoothly. I'd idle it at 1200 RPMS and it would stall after 20 seconds. I checked carbs (clean), plug tips (not overly fouled) but could not solve problem. Today, I take 3 gallons of fresh gas (with 10% ethanol) down to boat and run motor directly from this can. It runs fine at any RPM -- no stalling. I did not leave slip to see how engine runs under load. I think the problem is with the 15-20 gals of gas in my internal tank (bought at various times over summer). The guy in marina office thought problem was that I had mixed gas with 10% ethanol (purchased on west side of Chesapeake Bay) with gas having no ethanol (purchased on eastern side of Chesapeake Bay). Could this be the problem? Has anyone used a combination of gas with/without ethanol at same time? How did your engine run with it? Thanks, Kevin Baltimore
fourdfish	posted 11-03-2007 03:22 PM ET (US) No, don't think so! - Unless the gas had some water in it (a Problem) I use and have mixed the gas from different stations around here(alcohol and no alcohol) without problems. It might have been some crap around or on pick up tube screen.
jimh	posted 11-04-2007 01:35 PM ET (US) Decant some of the gasoline from your large tank. Filter it and pour it into your auxiliary tank. Try the engine on that combination. This will give you an indicator of the source of the problem with the fuel in the main tank, that is, the problem causing the engine to run poorly is either the fuel in the main tank or the main tank itself. Putting the fuel from the main tank into another tank and testing it will resolve the ambiguity.
jimh	posted 11-04-2007 01:40 PM ET (US) There is a general recommendation to avoid mixing gasoline which contains ethanol with gasoline which contains MTBE. However, as Fourdy mentions, here in the Midwest we have been getting gasoline diluted with ethanol for years, and, in Michigan, to make matters worse, our Governor is in the back pocket of the Ethanol lobbyists so she ordered all the identification removed from the gas pumps. Like the stupid passive citizenry the Ethanol lobby was hoping for, we now blindly buy gasoline and have no way to tell if there is any ethanol in it. When term limits force our governor from office, she'll probably get a good job in the Ethanol industry helping them to further deceive the public.
myakka	posted 11-04-2007 06:36 PM ET (US) I've been having problems with gas that contains ethanol. The fuel I have been buying contained 10% ethanol according to the sticker on the pump. If I let the boat sit for a week or two it runs like crap. I've stopped using brand X and switched to Chevron. The poor running has ceased. Mike
RM NY	posted 11-06-2007 07:20 PM ET (US) the biggest problem is when you mix ethanol and non ethanol fuels. you answered your own question when you ran it on another tank. drain what you have and start fresh. This was a HUGE problem when it first came out. If you can get both in your area you can eliminate future problems by not mixing the 2.
fourdfish	posted 11-06-2007 07:27 PM ET (US) Like I said before, around the midwest we have been mixing them for a long time! I have seen other discussions on other web sites which also confirm this!
RM NY	posted 11-06-2007 08:35 PM ET (US) Like I said, when it first came out around here it wrecked havok. so take it for what its worth. guy has problems now with mixed fuel, runs test tank of fresh fuel and has no more problems. Seems pretty simple
sternorama	posted 11-07-2007 12:09 PM ET (US) On a previous boat we got wash-down water into our fuel via a bad sending unit gasket. We used an inexpensive barrel pump to remove the bad fuel. Put the old watery gas in home-depo buckets with lids, and took them to the local toxic waste site.
JMARTIN	posted 11-07-2007 12:43 PM ET (US) I thought they discovered that MTBE was nasty stuff, it loves water and migrates. Did they not phase it out? Now when RM NY says there were problems with ethonal when it first came out, that makes sense. I have not heard of a problem mixing an ethonal gasoline with conventional gasoline. The problem I have heard is that ethanol cleans everything, so when it first is introduced, it starts cleaning. Once everything is clean, that problem goes away, Now the 2 stroke, phase seperation, less power, and the other problems with it, they stay around. John
jimh	posted 11-08-2007 08:39 AM ET (US) The use of MTBE as oxygenate in gasoline was halted when it was being found in the water supply. I assume it was being emitted in the exhaust of engines using gasoline which contained MTBE. To get back to the fellow with the problem, is he still reading this discusison? Has he tried any of the remedies offered?
JMARTIN	posted 11-08-2007 11:17 AM ET (US) It was getting into the ground water from leaking tanks. It could travel long distances to find water. All undergraound storage tanks had to be upgraded by 1998. Tanks are monitored for leaks now, but I do not monitor to prevent polluting. At a cost of 3 bucks a gallon, if I loose one gallon from a leaking tank, I have to sell 30 gallons to break even. John
gss036	posted 11-08-2007 03:57 PM ET (US) Is it possible that the fuel/water seperater filter is full of water? The gas would sit on top of the water and when it is gone you have no fuel, just water until more gas is pumped into the filter. Maybe your fuelp pump is not woring properly,hole in diaphram??