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Author Topic:   190 MONTAUK Owner Regrets 115-HP

garvies posted 02-28-2008 04:02 PM ET (US)
My 190 MONTAUK has a [Mercury] 115. When [I] tested the boat [I] thought, "this boat needs more power especially when loaded," but, as it was rated for the 115-HP, [I] bought the boat anyway. Now [I] see that the 135-HP [Mercury Verado] is listed as an optional extra. When [I] bought the boat this was not an option. To say "bummed" is an understatement. Anybody got any views on this?
sheikofthesea posted 02-28-2008 07:47 PM ET (US)
I bought my 190 [MONTAUK] when the 115 was the only choice. You basically have to put up with all the bragging of the folks who got the 135, how it has a better [acceleration from a standing stop,] and goes about 3-MPH faster. I use mine for fishing and don't really notice the slight difference in speed at WOT or any annoying sluggishness with heavier loads. I do appreciate the greater fuel efficiency especially with today's gas prices. It is also about $4,000 cheaper. So if you can put up with the folks who like their bigger, badder engines and enjoy this incredible boat I don't think it is that big of a deal. When I eventually have to re-power who knows. My only complaint is that Boston Whaler should always start out with some alternatives so that buyers can get what they want.
Sheik
jimh posted 02-28-2008 08:16 PM ET (US)
It is a general rule of product marketing that things change, and there is a general expectation that products will be continually improved.
Tohsgib posted 02-28-2008 08:46 PM ET (US)
20hp for $4k+...be happy with a 115!
bigjohn1 posted 02-29-2008 07:41 AM ET (US)
Agree with Tohsgib completely. Just optimize your prop and engine height to get the best performance you can from the 115. It seems to be a descent engine and it revs really high so again, prop it to take advantage of all those rpm's and be happy.
bigjohn1 posted 02-29-2008 07:57 AM ET (US)
I want to put an exclamation point on my last comment.
I own a 170 Montauk with the 4-stroke 115 hp predecessor engine to yours (the engine many call a "YamaMerc" or "Mercaha"). This engine has PLENTY of power to spare for a 170 Montauk loaded out to the maximum while using the bimini top even in windy conditions. I know first-hand as this is how I have regularly used my 170 Montauk for nearly four years now.
After comparing the specs between the 170 and 190 Montauk's, we see the 190 weighs 500 lbs more than the 170.
Several owner reports indicate these newer 90 and 115efi 4-stroke Mercs are more powerful than the predecessor engines (like the one I own). Your engine even revs to 400
rpm's higher than it's predecessor. I really feel that if you optimize your engine height and prop it to take advantage of that 6,400 rpm redline, you'll have an engine with more than adequate power.
Whaler_Jack posted 02-29-2008 08:31 AM ET (US)
Garvies,
I have the Montauk 190 also and just had the engine raise three holes and it definitely make a difference. Not huge but, I saw 40knots on the GPS up about 2.5knots and a slight better hole shot. I'm still experimenting so, time will tell.
Tohsgib posted 02-29-2008 09:07 AM ET (US)
Give me a 190 w/115 and let me futz with it and I bet I can keep up with a stock 135. All ya need is a jackplate and the RIGHT prop.
Perry posted 02-29-2008 11:50 AM ET (US)
Whaler_Jack, are you using the same prop that came with your boat?
garvies posted 02-29-2008 11:58 AM ET (US)
So any more info on the right prop and height would be greatly apreciated. My boat is working as a kitesurfing launch so it works pretty hard but over all i am happy with the engine , also the fuel factor is a bonus like you said, thanks all.
garvies posted 02-29-2008 12:00 PM ET (US)
Yep same prop.
montauk madness posted 02-29-2008 12:45 PM ET (US)
I agree with the others. It's pretty amazing what performance increases can be made by raising the motor a couple notches and getting the correct prop. Find someone local that can help you experiment.
Don't give up.
Jeff
bigjohn1 posted 03-01-2008 01:25 AM ET (US)
I assume you are running the Mercury 15P prop since this is the prop Whaler used in thier performance report. They show 6100 rpm's with this prop so I interpolate that the 14P Vengeance would get you up around the 6400 rpm redline for this engine.
The next logical step would seem to be raising the engine one hole or perhaps two. The bad part is, I presume this same 14P Vengeance prop is going to start blowing out on you after raising the engine. What to do at this point is the real problem. There are just so few performance prop options in these low pitch ranges.
Solas makes a Torque Master 4-blade in 13P and 15P but I have no experience with these props and don't know how well they would run close the the surface after you raise that engine. Aside from Solas, there is at least one other brand of 4-blade stainless made in these low pitch ranges but the exact manufacturer escapes me.
This problem illustrates why a have a personal aggrevation with Mercury giving this engine 2-07:1 gearing. If they gave it 2-33:1 like the 90 4-stroke, you would have many more prop otions.
I know you probably don't want to hear this but don't totally discount the idea of changing the gearing in your engine to 2:33-1. The warranty on my Mercury back in 2004 was only one year since it was bought overseas. I could have changed the gear after the warranty expired for about $600.00 parts and labor. Since you presumable have quite a while left on your warranty though, this probably isn't a viable option it this point.
Whaler_Jack posted 03-01-2008 09:22 AM ET (US)
Perry,
Yes! Same prop however, the guy that raised my engine told me we added a little pitch to the prop. I'm not sure just how much? He's much more knowledgeable guy about this stuff than me!!
Jack
Perry posted 03-01-2008 12:43 PM ET (US)
Jack, the guy that raised your motor must be pretty handy because it usually takes a specialist at a prop shop to re-pitch a stainless propeller. In your case, he would have had to add 2 inches of pitch to allow your boat to reach 40 knots (46 MPH). What RPM does your tach read at 40 knots?
I just find it hard to believe that a 190 Montauk powered by a 115 HP motor can gain 6 MPH by raising the motor. That is 2 MPH faster than the same boat with a 135 Verado.
Whaler_Jack posted 03-01-2008 04:17 PM ET (US)
Perry,
The guy is very handy and I think in years past he raced boats. Actually the top end speed is not a lot faster than I was getting before he raised the engine and tweaked the prop. Maybe 2.5 knots. I get this with WOT and I believe the tach stops at 6000rpm ...but its past the numbers. I wanted to put a jackplate on the boat but, he told me it would not help me that much. I fish in pretty skinny water at times and he convinced me to do this first. I'm sure the BW numbers are conservative because I have been getting 37-38 knot since I bought it! I was surprised too as my 170 was about the same speed.
Jack
Dan posted 03-01-2008 05:03 PM ET (US)
See if you can sell or trade your 115 and max the power -- It might be worth it if you have several passengers and need the extra power.
Perry posted 03-01-2008 07:31 PM ET (US)
Jack, are you sure your GPS is not reading in MPH instead of knots? I was on a 190 Montauk with a 115 FourStroke last weekend and it's top speed was around 38 MPH. Also if you were traveling at 38 knots on your boat with its 15 pitch prop, your motor would have to be turning over 6700 RPM and that's not possible because your motors rev limiter would have kicked in long before that. I'm not calling you a liar but unless you were traveling down a river moving at 4 MPH, the numbers don't add up.
Whaler_Jack posted 03-01-2008 07:59 PM ET (US)
Perry,
Yes, my GPS was reading knots. I was in the Intercoastal water way (very smooth) which could have a current. I do know that I checked it both ways with a very slight quartering headwind and then back with the same slight quartering tailwind. Two people, probably 40 gallons of fuel and a couple of ice chests. Into the wind it was about 38 knots. Downwind it was actually slightly more than 40 knots; again I was surprised. It was a fairly cool day in the 50's and that may be a consideration? I'm not sure what data BW uses as their standard..I don't believe their data use standard temperature or altitude data. My GPS could be inaccurate. As far as the RPM limiter I can't say other than what I was looking at (6000+RPM), certainly not a scientific test.
Jack
bigjohn1 posted 03-02-2008 07:28 AM ET (US)
Perry - I assume the ride you took on the 190 was there in Hawaii? A cool day in the 50's with low humidity will see more power and speed produced as compared to the environment you and I live in.
Perry posted 03-02-2008 12:02 PM ET (US)
I understand your point John but what I don't understand is that his motor will have to turn 6700 RPM to achieve 38 knots (43.7 MPH) with a 15 pitch prop. He said he has seen 38 knots since he bought the boat. It just doesn't add up.

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Author	Topic: 190 MONTAUK Owner Regrets 115-HP
garvies	posted 02-28-2008 04:02 PM ET (US) My 190 MONTAUK has a [Mercury] 115. When [I] tested the boat [I] thought, "this boat needs more power especially when loaded," but, as it was rated for the 115-HP, [I] bought the boat anyway. Now [I] see that the 135-HP [Mercury Verado] is listed as an optional extra. When [I] bought the boat this was not an option. To say "bummed" is an understatement. Anybody got any views on this?
sheikofthesea	posted 02-28-2008 07:47 PM ET (US) I bought my 190 [MONTAUK] when the 115 was the only choice. You basically have to put up with all the bragging of the folks who got the 135, how it has a better [acceleration from a standing stop,] and goes about 3-MPH faster. I use mine for fishing and don't really notice the slight difference in speed at WOT or any annoying sluggishness with heavier loads. I do appreciate the greater fuel efficiency especially with today's gas prices. It is also about $4,000 cheaper. So if you can put up with the folks who like their bigger, badder engines and enjoy this incredible boat I don't think it is that big of a deal. When I eventually have to re-power who knows. My only complaint is that Boston Whaler should always start out with some alternatives so that buyers can get what they want. Sheik
jimh	posted 02-28-2008 08:16 PM ET (US) It is a general rule of product marketing that things change, and there is a general expectation that products will be continually improved.
Tohsgib	posted 02-28-2008 08:46 PM ET (US) 20hp for $4k+...be happy with a 115!
bigjohn1	posted 02-29-2008 07:41 AM ET (US) Agree with Tohsgib completely. Just optimize your prop and engine height to get the best performance you can from the 115. It seems to be a descent engine and it revs really high so again, prop it to take advantage of all those rpm's and be happy.
bigjohn1	posted 02-29-2008 07:57 AM ET (US) I want to put an exclamation point on my last comment. I own a 170 Montauk with the 4-stroke 115 hp predecessor engine to yours (the engine many call a "YamaMerc" or "Mercaha"). This engine has PLENTY of power to spare for a 170 Montauk loaded out to the maximum while using the bimini top even in windy conditions. I know first-hand as this is how I have regularly used my 170 Montauk for nearly four years now. After comparing the specs between the 170 and 190 Montauk's, we see the 190 weighs 500 lbs more than the 170. Several owner reports indicate these newer 90 and 115efi 4-stroke Mercs are more powerful than the predecessor engines (like the one I own). Your engine even revs to 400 rpm's higher than it's predecessor. I really feel that if you optimize your engine height and prop it to take advantage of that 6,400 rpm redline, you'll have an engine with more than adequate power.
Whaler_Jack	posted 02-29-2008 08:31 AM ET (US) Garvies, I have the Montauk 190 also and just had the engine raise three holes and it definitely make a difference. Not huge but, I saw 40knots on the GPS up about 2.5knots and a slight better hole shot. I'm still experimenting so, time will tell.
Tohsgib	posted 02-29-2008 09:07 AM ET (US) Give me a 190 w/115 and let me futz with it and I bet I can keep up with a stock 135. All ya need is a jackplate and the RIGHT prop.
Perry	posted 02-29-2008 11:50 AM ET (US) Whaler_Jack, are you using the same prop that came with your boat?
garvies	posted 02-29-2008 11:58 AM ET (US) So any more info on the right prop and height would be greatly apreciated. My boat is working as a kitesurfing launch so it works pretty hard but over all i am happy with the engine , also the fuel factor is a bonus like you said, thanks all.
garvies	posted 02-29-2008 12:00 PM ET (US) Yep same prop.
montauk madness	posted 02-29-2008 12:45 PM ET (US) I agree with the others. It's pretty amazing what performance increases can be made by raising the motor a couple notches and getting the correct prop. Find someone local that can help you experiment. Don't give up. Jeff
bigjohn1	posted 03-01-2008 01:25 AM ET (US) I assume you are running the Mercury 15P prop since this is the prop Whaler used in thier performance report. They show 6100 rpm's with this prop so I interpolate that the 14P Vengeance would get you up around the 6400 rpm redline for this engine. The next logical step would seem to be raising the engine one hole or perhaps two. The bad part is, I presume this same 14P Vengeance prop is going to start blowing out on you after raising the engine. What to do at this point is the real problem. There are just so few performance prop options in these low pitch ranges. Solas makes a Torque Master 4-blade in 13P and 15P but I have no experience with these props and don't know how well they would run close the the surface after you raise that engine. Aside from Solas, there is at least one other brand of 4-blade stainless made in these low pitch ranges but the exact manufacturer escapes me. This problem illustrates why a have a personal aggrevation with Mercury giving this engine 2-07:1 gearing. If they gave it 2-33:1 like the 90 4-stroke, you would have many more prop otions. I know you probably don't want to hear this but don't totally discount the idea of changing the gearing in your engine to 2:33-1. The warranty on my Mercury back in 2004 was only one year since it was bought overseas. I could have changed the gear after the warranty expired for about $600.00 parts and labor. Since you presumable have quite a while left on your warranty though, this probably isn't a viable option it this point.
Whaler_Jack	posted 03-01-2008 09:22 AM ET (US) Perry, Yes! Same prop however, the guy that raised my engine told me we added a little pitch to the prop. I'm not sure just how much? He's much more knowledgeable guy about this stuff than me!! Jack
Perry	posted 03-01-2008 12:43 PM ET (US) Jack, the guy that raised your motor must be pretty handy because it usually takes a specialist at a prop shop to re-pitch a stainless propeller. In your case, he would have had to add 2 inches of pitch to allow your boat to reach 40 knots (46 MPH). What RPM does your tach read at 40 knots? I just find it hard to believe that a 190 Montauk powered by a 115 HP motor can gain 6 MPH by raising the motor. That is 2 MPH faster than the same boat with a 135 Verado.
Whaler_Jack	posted 03-01-2008 04:17 PM ET (US) Perry, The guy is very handy and I think in years past he raced boats. Actually the top end speed is not a lot faster than I was getting before he raised the engine and tweaked the prop. Maybe 2.5 knots. I get this with WOT and I believe the tach stops at 6000rpm ...but its past the numbers. I wanted to put a jackplate on the boat but, he told me it would not help me that much. I fish in pretty skinny water at times and he convinced me to do this first. I'm sure the BW numbers are conservative because I have been getting 37-38 knot since I bought it! I was surprised too as my 170 was about the same speed. Jack
Dan	posted 03-01-2008 05:03 PM ET (US) See if you can sell or trade your 115 and max the power -- It might be worth it if you have several passengers and need the extra power.
Perry	posted 03-01-2008 07:31 PM ET (US) Jack, are you sure your GPS is not reading in MPH instead of knots? I was on a 190 Montauk with a 115 FourStroke last weekend and it's top speed was around 38 MPH. Also if you were traveling at 38 knots on your boat with its 15 pitch prop, your motor would have to be turning over 6700 RPM and that's not possible because your motors rev limiter would have kicked in long before that. I'm not calling you a liar but unless you were traveling down a river moving at 4 MPH, the numbers don't add up.
Whaler_Jack	posted 03-01-2008 07:59 PM ET (US) Perry, Yes, my GPS was reading knots. I was in the Intercoastal water way (very smooth) which could have a current. I do know that I checked it both ways with a very slight quartering headwind and then back with the same slight quartering tailwind. Two people, probably 40 gallons of fuel and a couple of ice chests. Into the wind it was about 38 knots. Downwind it was actually slightly more than 40 knots; again I was surprised. It was a fairly cool day in the 50's and that may be a consideration? I'm not sure what data BW uses as their standard..I don't believe their data use standard temperature or altitude data. My GPS could be inaccurate. As far as the RPM limiter I can't say other than what I was looking at (6000+RPM), certainly not a scientific test. Jack
bigjohn1	posted 03-02-2008 07:28 AM ET (US) Perry - I assume the ride you took on the 190 was there in Hawaii? A cool day in the 50's with low humidity will see more power and speed produced as compared to the environment you and I live in.
Perry	posted 03-02-2008 12:02 PM ET (US) I understand your point John but what I don't understand is that his motor will have to turn 6700 RPM to achieve 38 knots (43.7 MPH) with a 15 pitch prop. He said he has seen 38 knots since he bought the boat. It just doesn't add up.