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Author Topic:   Outrage 18, Mercury OptiMax 150-HP

ptitterington posted 05-17-2008 03:30 PM ET (US)
Hello, I would really appreciate a little help. I purchased my 1988 Outrage 18 with twin 1988 Mariner 75-HP motors. They worked well, but were not reliable. They got onto the plane quickly and top speed was 44-natical miles per hour.
I purchased and had fitted a 1997 OptiMax 150 extra-longs haft with 21-inch [three blade] propeller. First time out got a load of upward spray and boat tilted badly to port max. [The maximum engine speed was] 4,000-RPM and the top boat speed 35 nautical miles per hour.
Tried today a 19-inch HighFive propeller and got 4,500-RPM and 41 nautical miles per hour. [There was] still twisting [of the] boat to port, and, if I have weight aft, the boat takes an age to [plane].
When fitted [the engine mounting height was] on the transom. After the spray problems I lifted [the engine mounting two] holes, and this cured the problem. Now with the 19-inch I notice cavitation just before [reaching plane]. The guys that supplied and fitted the motor have ordered a 17-inch HighFive. They say this is what I need and will sort out everything.
Does anyone have this setup? Any tips much appreciated. I hate the way that if someone sits on the back seat the boat takes an age to [plane], and it always twists over to port so you all need to stand starboard.
Thanks for any help; love the boat.
jimh posted 05-17-2008 04:28 PM ET (US)
The cure for the strong lean to PORT is probably trim tabs.
Tom W Clark posted 05-17-2008 04:47 PM ET (US)
A list to port is often the result of propeller torque and is something most small single outboard boats suffer from to some degree.
However, when it seems to be extreme, it is often the trim tab (above the prop on the motor, not the transom) that is the culprit. If the trim tab is not adjusted correctly it can exacerbate the list tremendously, especially if the motor is mounted too low on the transom.
Back to propellers for this boat. I would not recommend the Mercury High Five for this application. While the High Five seems to do well in its "small tube" model for intermediate size gearcase motors on smaller Whalers, I have not been impressed with the large hub versions on larger motors.
I have tested the 19" High Five's on my own Mercury 150 HP motors and found them to offer amazingly poor grip, especially during acceleration. They ventilated very easily, even worse than the old three blade aluminum props my boat originally had.
I can tell you that if you do use a High Five, you usually will need to use about 2" more pitch to achieve the same RPM as most other propellers. It is also important, if using the High Five, that the prop run fully submerged to help avoid excessive ventilation.
There are numerous other propellers I would recommend for your boat and motor. Among them:
15-1/4" x 19" Mercury MIRAGEplus
14-5/8" x 19" Mercury Revolution 4
13-3/4" x 20" Mercury Enertia
14" x 21" Mercury VenSura (a.k.a. Offshore)
14-1/4" x 19" Stiletto Advantage II
ratherwhalering posted 05-18-2008 12:38 AM ET (US)
[quote]I purchased and had fitted a 1997 OptiMax 150 extra-longs shaft[quote]
Exactly how long? I'm thinking this might be a 30-inch, and therefore mounted way too low. Please post a picture of the engine, tilted down, from behind the boat.
Tom W Clark posted 05-18-2008 12:44 AM ET (US)
Long Shaft = 20"
Extra Long Shaft = 25"
Extra Extra Long Shaft = 30"
ptitterington posted 05-18-2008 08:50 AM ET (US)
Ok I will try to post a picture. It is just the extra long shaft.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture203.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture202.jpg

Thanks for any info as the boatyard were in the process of ordering a 17in high 5 as the 19 that I have on belongs to someone else.
jimh posted 05-18-2008 10:17 AM ET (US)
Here is a quote from
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/manual18-25/operations. html#hullTrim
from the subheading HULL TRIM—18, 20, 22, and 25 Foot—ALL MODELS
"Large propellers on high horsepower engines normally create port list conditions on "V" hulls. If desired, the installation of trim tabs will correct this condition. The installation of a transom mounted transducer on the port side will also reduce port list."
I see you have all the SONAR gear on the starboard side. This is exacerbating the tendency to lean to PORT.
Also see the advice offered in
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/manual18-25/operations. html#trimTab
re the adjustment of the engine trim tab.
Also, the five-blade propeller might be adding to the lean.
Tom W Clark posted 05-18-2008 11:26 AM ET (US)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture203.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture202.jpg
I am now giving your first post a little more scrutiny and I see that while your boat speed is within my expectations, indeed is very good at 41 knots with the 19" pitch prop, there is no way the engine speeds (RPM) you report are accurate.
Your tachometer is either adjusted wrong or your data above is a typo.
ptitterington posted 05-18-2008 01:44 PM ET (US)
I was pretty sure that I read it correctly, although the sea was not flat calm so everything was shaking about a little.
If conditions are good I will go out tomorrow eve. Also I need to have a look in the manual to see how to get the revs on the digital display if there an option to do that.
The best thing to note is how much more fuel efficiant the new motor is compared to the twin Mariners.
I had a little iroko left from a contract so I made a new seat as the old one was pretty tally and increadibly heavy.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture210.jpg
Budget was quite tight so I had to use a cheap material to patch up the console as there were loads of holes to hide from the twin engine setup.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture213.jpg
Something that is a little baffeling is why is the boat made like it is with the need for a sump and pump, my father had the 21ft(or 22ft cant quite remember) and it just drained out the back.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture212.jpg
Should I fit plugs to the holes as they drain while under way yet fill up when stationary or if I stop quickly. Currently I have a plug in one and have tried a peewee self drainer but it does not work as I think it is out of the water when motoring.
Thanks for all the help folks.
Casco Bay Outrage posted 05-18-2008 09:40 PM ET (US)
In looking at the engine photos, I do not see a trim tab anode, rather a flat anode without the fin.
If you look below the anti-cavitation plate on my engine in the photo below, you can see a small vertical fin. This can be adjusted to offset torque.
http://picasaweb.google.com/CascoBayOutrage/1991Outrage17I/ photo#5102091148762746978
george nagy posted 05-20-2008 09:30 AM ET (US)
That kicker might also contribute to the list to port.
Tom W Clark posted 05-20-2008 10:41 AM ET (US)
Phil,
You are correct t here is no trim tab anode only the flat anode so we know this is not the problem.
I agree with George, the kicker is contributing to the problem.
I doubt the transducer is doing much if anything because it is a newer skimmer type. At the time the advice quoted by Jim above was written for inclusion in the Boston Whaler Owner's Manual over thirty years ago, transducers were much larger with broad flat surfaces on their bottoms and did affect the hulls running attitude. Today they are almost insignificant.
ptitterington posted 05-20-2008 03:51 PM ET (US)
Hello, weather been poor so have not ventured out again.
By kicker do you mean the auxillary motor?
Prior to the 9.9 I had a honda 4 stroke 6 which was lighter, but with that and the 21in lazer 2 I still was getting twisted over to port.
On the second trip out, we went to a wreck 14 miles out, unfortunately the main fuse within the motor had blown and just as we arrived at the wreck the batteries died.(we had noticed a low voltage warning but the boatyard had said not to worry the boat would charge in no time!!)
Anyway an embarrasing tow back by the lifeboat as the honda was only making 1knot against the tide.
I read on one of the other posts about folk fitting a yact prop to the auxillary, do I need to do this, the 9.9 pushes the boat pretty well.
What is best, to lift the main engine out and run on the auxillary to reduce drag, as leaving the main engine down still does not make steering with the wheel possible.
Wish I had found this forum earlier!!!
ptitterington posted 05-21-2008 03:47 PM ET (US)
Well I had perfect flat calm weather, had a good run and now only less than half tank of fuel.
I also looked at the rev counter instead of the speedo (what an idiot)Thats why my figures were wrong sorry!!
Anyway am getting 5200 and 42kts on the guage and 36 on the gps, not sure which is best/most accurate,Was high spring tide with tide running.
With 3 people on the boat the twisting was not too bad either.
Unfortunately the boat yard have already ordered the high 5 17in so I guess I will have to try it.
ptitterington posted 07-12-2008 08:01 AM ET (US)
Just an update, finally my new prop arrived today but weather is too bad for a test.
They supplied a 17" Vengeance would appreciate any coments about its suitability.
Cheers
Tom W Clark posted 07-12-2008 10:42 AM ET (US)
For that boat and motor the Vengeance is not a bad prop. There are better ones but it will do.
littleblue posted 07-12-2008 03:35 PM ET (US)
Why do so many people mount their kickers on the port side? I was under the impression that you were supposed to mount it on the stb side to counter the prop torque...?
ptitterington posted 07-13-2008 06:54 AM ET (US)
I wish I had, but there was more stuff in the way to move and all the pics I saw they were there.

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Author	Topic: Outrage 18, Mercury OptiMax 150-HP
ptitterington	posted 05-17-2008 03:30 PM ET (US) Hello, I would really appreciate a little help. I purchased my 1988 Outrage 18 with twin 1988 Mariner 75-HP motors. They worked well, but were not reliable. They got onto the plane quickly and top speed was 44-natical miles per hour. I purchased and had fitted a 1997 OptiMax 150 extra-longs haft with 21-inch [three blade] propeller. First time out got a load of upward spray and boat tilted badly to port max. [The maximum engine speed was] 4,000-RPM and the top boat speed 35 nautical miles per hour. Tried today a 19-inch HighFive propeller and got 4,500-RPM and 41 nautical miles per hour. [There was] still twisting [of the] boat to port, and, if I have weight aft, the boat takes an age to [plane]. When fitted [the engine mounting height was] on the transom. After the spray problems I lifted [the engine mounting two] holes, and this cured the problem. Now with the 19-inch I notice cavitation just before [reaching plane]. The guys that supplied and fitted the motor have ordered a 17-inch HighFive. They say this is what I need and will sort out everything. Does anyone have this setup? Any tips much appreciated. I hate the way that if someone sits on the back seat the boat takes an age to [plane], and it always twists over to port so you all need to stand starboard. Thanks for any help; love the boat.
jimh	posted 05-17-2008 04:28 PM ET (US) The cure for the strong lean to PORT is probably trim tabs.
Tom W Clark	posted 05-17-2008 04:47 PM ET (US) A list to port is often the result of propeller torque and is something most small single outboard boats suffer from to some degree. However, when it seems to be extreme, it is often the trim tab (above the prop on the motor, not the transom) that is the culprit. If the trim tab is not adjusted correctly it can exacerbate the list tremendously, especially if the motor is mounted too low on the transom. Back to propellers for this boat. I would not recommend the Mercury High Five for this application. While the High Five seems to do well in its "small tube" model for intermediate size gearcase motors on smaller Whalers, I have not been impressed with the large hub versions on larger motors. I have tested the 19" High Five's on my own Mercury 150 HP motors and found them to offer amazingly poor grip, especially during acceleration. They ventilated very easily, even worse than the old three blade aluminum props my boat originally had. I can tell you that if you do use a High Five, you usually will need to use about 2" more pitch to achieve the same RPM as most other propellers. It is also important, if using the High Five, that the prop run fully submerged to help avoid excessive ventilation. There are numerous other propellers I would recommend for your boat and motor. Among them: 15-1/4" x 19" Mercury MIRAGEplus 14-5/8" x 19" Mercury Revolution 4 13-3/4" x 20" Mercury Enertia 14" x 21" Mercury VenSura (a.k.a. Offshore) 14-1/4" x 19" Stiletto Advantage II
ratherwhalering	posted 05-18-2008 12:38 AM ET (US) [quote]I purchased and had fitted a 1997 OptiMax 150 extra-longs shaft[quote] Exactly how long? I'm thinking this might be a 30-inch, and therefore mounted way too low. Please post a picture of the engine, tilted down, from behind the boat.
Tom W Clark	posted 05-18-2008 12:44 AM ET (US) Long Shaft = 20" Extra Long Shaft = 25" Extra Extra Long Shaft = 30"
ptitterington	posted 05-18-2008 08:50 AM ET (US) Ok I will try to post a picture. It is just the extra long shaft. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture203.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture202.jpg Thanks for any info as the boatyard were in the process of ordering a 17in high 5 as the 19 that I have on belongs to someone else.
jimh	posted 05-18-2008 10:17 AM ET (US) Here is a quote from http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/manual18-25/operations. html#hullTrim from the subheading HULL TRIM—18, 20, 22, and 25 Foot—ALL MODELS "Large propellers on high horsepower engines normally create port list conditions on "V" hulls. If desired, the installation of trim tabs will correct this condition. The installation of a transom mounted transducer on the port side will also reduce port list." I see you have all the SONAR gear on the starboard side. This is exacerbating the tendency to lean to PORT. Also see the advice offered in http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/manual18-25/operations. html#trimTab re the adjustment of the engine trim tab. Also, the five-blade propeller might be adding to the lean.
Tom W Clark	posted 05-18-2008 11:26 AM ET (US) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture203.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture202.jpg I am now giving your first post a little more scrutiny and I see that while your boat speed is within my expectations, indeed is very good at 41 knots with the 19" pitch prop, there is no way the engine speeds (RPM) you report are accurate. Your tachometer is either adjusted wrong or your data above is a typo.
ptitterington	posted 05-18-2008 01:44 PM ET (US) I was pretty sure that I read it correctly, although the sea was not flat calm so everything was shaking about a little. If conditions are good I will go out tomorrow eve. Also I need to have a look in the manual to see how to get the revs on the digital display if there an option to do that. The best thing to note is how much more fuel efficiant the new motor is compared to the twin Mariners. I had a little iroko left from a contract so I made a new seat as the old one was pretty tally and increadibly heavy. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture210.jpg Budget was quite tight so I had to use a cheap material to patch up the console as there were loads of holes to hide from the twin engine setup. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture213.jpg Something that is a little baffeling is why is the boat made like it is with the need for a sump and pump, my father had the 21ft(or 22ft cant quite remember) and it just drained out the back. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/stouen/Picture212.jpg Should I fit plugs to the holes as they drain while under way yet fill up when stationary or if I stop quickly. Currently I have a plug in one and have tried a peewee self drainer but it does not work as I think it is out of the water when motoring. Thanks for all the help folks.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 05-18-2008 09:40 PM ET (US) In looking at the engine photos, I do not see a trim tab anode, rather a flat anode without the fin. If you look below the anti-cavitation plate on my engine in the photo below, you can see a small vertical fin. This can be adjusted to offset torque. http://picasaweb.google.com/CascoBayOutrage/1991Outrage17I/ photo#5102091148762746978
george nagy	posted 05-20-2008 09:30 AM ET (US) That kicker might also contribute to the list to port.
Tom W Clark	posted 05-20-2008 10:41 AM ET (US) Phil, You are correct t here is no trim tab anode only the flat anode so we know this is not the problem. I agree with George, the kicker is contributing to the problem. I doubt the transducer is doing much if anything because it is a newer skimmer type. At the time the advice quoted by Jim above was written for inclusion in the Boston Whaler Owner's Manual over thirty years ago, transducers were much larger with broad flat surfaces on their bottoms and did affect the hulls running attitude. Today they are almost insignificant.
ptitterington	posted 05-20-2008 03:51 PM ET (US) Hello, weather been poor so have not ventured out again. By kicker do you mean the auxillary motor? Prior to the 9.9 I had a honda 4 stroke 6 which was lighter, but with that and the 21in lazer 2 I still was getting twisted over to port. On the second trip out, we went to a wreck 14 miles out, unfortunately the main fuse within the motor had blown and just as we arrived at the wreck the batteries died.(we had noticed a low voltage warning but the boatyard had said not to worry the boat would charge in no time!!) Anyway an embarrasing tow back by the lifeboat as the honda was only making 1knot against the tide. I read on one of the other posts about folk fitting a yact prop to the auxillary, do I need to do this, the 9.9 pushes the boat pretty well. What is best, to lift the main engine out and run on the auxillary to reduce drag, as leaving the main engine down still does not make steering with the wheel possible. Wish I had found this forum earlier!!!
ptitterington	posted 05-21-2008 03:47 PM ET (US) Well I had perfect flat calm weather, had a good run and now only less than half tank of fuel. I also looked at the rev counter instead of the speedo (what an idiot)Thats why my figures were wrong sorry!! Anyway am getting 5200 and 42kts on the guage and 36 on the gps, not sure which is best/most accurate,Was high spring tide with tide running. With 3 people on the boat the twisting was not too bad either. Unfortunately the boat yard have already ordered the high 5 17in so I guess I will have to try it.
ptitterington	posted 07-12-2008 08:01 AM ET (US) Just an update, finally my new prop arrived today but weather is too bad for a test. They supplied a 17" Vengeance would appreciate any coments about its suitability. Cheers
Tom W Clark	posted 07-12-2008 10:42 AM ET (US) For that boat and motor the Vengeance is not a bad prop. There are better ones but it will do.
littleblue	posted 07-12-2008 03:35 PM ET (US) Why do so many people mount their kickers on the port side? I was under the impression that you were supposed to mount it on the stb side to counter the prop torque...?
ptitterington	posted 07-13-2008 06:54 AM ET (US) I wish I had, but there was more stuff in the way to move and all the pics I saw they were there.