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Author Topic:   MONTAUK 17, E-TEC 90 on CMC Jack Plate

kazankota posted 07-16-2008 12:27 PM ET (US)
I finally finished the few repairs on the Montauk and put her in Point Judith Salt Pond for a sea trial today. The boat is a 1987 Montauk with 2009 Evinrude 90-HP E-TEC Saltwater Series mounted to the standard transom bolt pattern on a CMC ML-65 jack plate. The motor is mounted 3 holes up with anti-ventilation plate 2.5-inches above keel. It is rigged with Baystar hydraulic steering and a Stilleto Advantage I 13.25 x 15 stainless propeller.
My first impression of the motor was that it was mounted very high. I wasn't used to this, but it seems to be fairly standard in what I have read on continuouswave for this set-up.
The boat had an average to below average load with 12 gallons of fuel and myself (190 lbs) with some equipment. The motor started on the first turn and was extremely quiet. At lower speeds, approximately 1,000 to 1,500-RPM, I noticed a lot of vibration, but as soon as the motor was throttled up slightly the vibration disappeared. The Baystar steering is so amazing--what a difference!
At WOT I reached 42-MPH with RPM at about 5,100 or 5,200. I was actually expecting to be closer to 5,500-RPM.
Tohsgib posted 07-16-2008 02:17 PM ET (US)
Raise it up another inch and see what gives.
ratherwhalering posted 07-17-2008 11:50 AM ET (US)
Kazankota, give it some time to settle in. I have an identical (2004 E-TEC 90 and 1987 Montauk) set up, with the CMC 4-inch brackets instead of the ML-65, but everything else is spot on. The low end vibration should all but disappear within a month or so. You should be able to trim waaay out to hit 5500 RPM. Once the engine has 20-30 hours you will notice that the power curve becomes smoother, and the top end should increase by a few hundred RPM.
kazankota posted 07-17-2008 07:10 PM ET (US)
So I've had the boat out a few times in the last 2 days and with approximately 430 #'s (2 adults and a child) in passenger weight I only reach approximately 4,900 RPM at 40.1 MPH (trimmed out).
Rob,
Do you think this will resolve as the motor "breaks in"? I can't imagine I would ever go to a 13.25 x 13 Stiletto.
According to the archives it seems that this prop is ideally suited for this set-up, however I am wondering if there is something else I should experiment with to see if I can get the RPM's up a bit.
-Torrey
davej14 posted 07-17-2008 07:31 PM ET (US)
At low RPM's you may be hearing prop rattle. If your Stiletto prop uses a Flo-Torq hub, going to a Flo-Torq III will stop the noise.
Tohsgib posted 07-18-2008 10:30 AM ET (US)
Did you not read my post?
ratherwhalering posted 07-18-2008 11:32 AM ET (US)
I sugguest you raise it up another inch and see what gives.
ratherwhalering posted 07-18-2008 11:37 AM ET (US)
I'm sorry, Nick, I believe Kazankota was seeking knowledgeable advice ;-)
kazankota posted 07-18-2008 01:39 PM ET (US)
Nick,
I did not ignore your post and should have commented earlier, sorry about that. I am concerned about raising it anymore as I notice that when I am out in open ocean (in swells) the prop will slip and cavitate at certain times. Also in calm water just before I get on plane it seems to slip slightly and once I am on plane the motor is much louder than I would expect, making me concerned of the mounting height. How do you know when you are mounted too high? If you feel it is a good idea to raise it a bit more I can try it.
ratherwhalering posted 07-18-2008 02:36 PM ET (US)
One thing I can think of is for you to go on a diet :-) Seriously, check the linkage to ensure WOT at the control box equates to WOT at the engine. If your prop is venting, then you are probably high enough. Do you have bottom paint, or any growth on the bottom? I believe the engine will settle in, and you may see a few more hundred RPM, but this is not fact, just an individual observation. The engine adds twice the amount of normal oil during the first 10 hours of operation above 1200 RPM, if I remember correctly. You can also try reprogramming to XD100 oil, which may help. I run 89 octane fuel, and I wonder if this may help. Check your trim tab, and ensure it is set correctly according to the owners guide. Finally, check your tachometer for accuracy. If it is a non-OEM tach, it may be reading low...this happened to me when I installed my engine. Your MPH sounds right in the ball park, and the engine operates very well at 5200 RPM, so if that is all you get, it still isn't bad at all.
kazankota posted 07-18-2008 03:56 PM ET (US)
There is bottom paint but no growth at all (painted for first time last year). The gauge is an Evinrude Systemcheck tachometer. The motor is programmed for XD100 oil and trim tab is set correctly. Not sure how to check the linkage to correlate WOT at control box compared to motor. One thing I have noticed is when I trim and start to get the increased RPM and speed I only have a litte room before I am out of the clean water. Is there any chance I'm too high? and going down an inch or 2 might give me more angle/room to trim up?
I will most often operate with 1-2 folks on board so I just want to be sure that operating the boat at 4900 RPM is not putting too much strain on the motor. There is no chance I should go to a 13 pitch stiletto or try a 15p OMC SST/SST II, right?
crabby posted 07-19-2008 01:11 PM ET (US)
Ill provide another data point:
I have a slightly different set-up: 1984 Montauk (bottom painted), 2004 90hp etec mounted on the transom two holes up, 15 inch Stiletto prop. Until recently I was only able to get about 5200 rpm's unless I managed to break the prop loose on a tight turn trimmed way out. For some reason over the past 6 months or so I have noticed that this motor has "loosened up" and I regularly hit 5500 rpm's at WOT. My usual running configuration is myself (190 pounds), the pooch (115 pounds), and about ten gallons of fuel. If you can wait about 500 hours it is possible that your motor may also come up to speed!
One thing: along with this increase in rev's I also tend to blow out the prop a little more often and find myself seriously working the trim on turns thru tight channels.
kazankota posted 07-19-2008 04:33 PM ET (US)
I thought I would take some pics of the motor and set-up.
http://s331.photobucket.com/albums/l478/kazankota/
Tom W Clark posted 07-21-2008 12:02 AM ET (US)
Torrey,
It sounds as if you are nearly perfectly propped now. The E-TEC 90 has an optimum WOT RPM range of 5000-5200 RPM which is where you are at now.
I think Rob is right, the motor may "loosen up" a bit after it has down with its programmed extra oiling.
If the AV plate is only 2-1/2" above the keel now, you could afford to play with the height a bit.
But really, I think that 42 MPH at 5100 RPM is right on.
kazankota posted 07-21-2008 07:20 AM ET (US)
Thanks for everyones input. I will take Nick's original advice and raise it up a bit and see what happens. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't creating problems by not running at the higher RPM range.
-Torrey
Tohsgib posted 07-21-2008 12:09 PM ET (US)
That height looks pretty good and more than 2.5" above keel. If it is truly only 2.5" then raise it up an inch. My Montauk I was up about 4.5".
ratherwhalering posted 07-22-2008 03:35 PM ET (US)
Torrey, you may notice that the engine "growls" a bit when you raise it, and are decelerating. You are hearing the through hub exhaust. The closer to the water surface it is, less muffling there will be. I actually love this sound. Before you raise the engine up even more, (I agree with Nick that Stiletto can handle it) try taking a couple of tight turns, and check your grip while in the turns. When you straighten out from a tight turn, it might vent a little, but this is normal. Check grip on following seas also. I do not think a water pressure gauge is needed. I was concerned about water flow to the engine with the increased height, and installed one, but if you look at the E-TEC's water intakes, they are very low on the lower unit, and ideal for this set up.
bikingart posted 07-22-2008 09:18 PM ET (US)
I have been admiring your pictures as I consider making the step to a 90 e tec for my classic Montauk and am weighing the transom mount versus the jack plate. Could you explain the benefits of your jack plate and how you feel about it now that you have used it. I am pretty much fresh water so I have to select white or blue also.
Thanks,
Art
Joninnj posted 07-26-2008 08:24 AM ET (US)
kazankota,
Very Nice set up. Good Luck. I am also interested in knowing about your jack plate. I have a 17 with Yamie 90. I noticed that the plate over laps the drains in the well. Did you do anything special to make it fit?
Have Fun with this!
Tohsgib posted 07-26-2008 08:54 AM ET (US)
I ground out a little meat where it rested on the corner of my drain tube so it would not distort the brass when tightened down.
kazankota posted 07-28-2008 08:50 PM ET (US)
Art and Jon,
The jackplate is nice because I am able to adjust the height of the motor dependent on the type of water I run in and the prop I use (bow lifting, etc) With some of the newer bow lifting props like the Stiletto you can have the engine mounted higer for better overall performance (speed, mpg, holeshot, etc). I can adjust the height of the motor in a minute or so. I have needed to adjust the motor height by a few inches up and down to see where it runs best, so it's nice to be able to adjust quickly. I have simply followed the advice of others who have similar set-ups.
The CMC ML-65 is a wider jackplate and just barely overlaps the 2 splashwell drain holes. Those areas were just filed down a bit.
-Torrey
kazankota posted 06-09-2009 05:28 PM ET (US)
So after all of last seasons use and into this season I am still in the same position. I get a maximum of about 5000 rpm at WOT with a top speed (gps) of 40.5 MPH. As soon as I load anyone in the boat it drops to anywhere between 4600-4900 depending on number/weight of occupants. The set-up is the same and I have raised the motor (anti-cavitation plate 2.5 to 3 inches above keel). Don't get me wrong... I am very happy with the set-up. I'm just wondering if something is off. I would like to get closer to the 5200 RPM with an average load and right now it's closer to 4800 RPM.

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Author	Topic: MONTAUK 17, E-TEC 90 on CMC Jack Plate
kazankota	posted 07-16-2008 12:27 PM ET (US) I finally finished the few repairs on the Montauk and put her in Point Judith Salt Pond for a sea trial today. The boat is a 1987 Montauk with 2009 Evinrude 90-HP E-TEC Saltwater Series mounted to the standard transom bolt pattern on a CMC ML-65 jack plate. The motor is mounted 3 holes up with anti-ventilation plate 2.5-inches above keel. It is rigged with Baystar hydraulic steering and a Stilleto Advantage I 13.25 x 15 stainless propeller. My first impression of the motor was that it was mounted very high. I wasn't used to this, but it seems to be fairly standard in what I have read on continuouswave for this set-up. The boat had an average to below average load with 12 gallons of fuel and myself (190 lbs) with some equipment. The motor started on the first turn and was extremely quiet. At lower speeds, approximately 1,000 to 1,500-RPM, I noticed a lot of vibration, but as soon as the motor was throttled up slightly the vibration disappeared. The Baystar steering is so amazing--what a difference! At WOT I reached 42-MPH with RPM at about 5,100 or 5,200. I was actually expecting to be closer to 5,500-RPM.
Tohsgib	posted 07-16-2008 02:17 PM ET (US) Raise it up another inch and see what gives.
ratherwhalering	posted 07-17-2008 11:50 AM ET (US) Kazankota, give it some time to settle in. I have an identical (2004 E-TEC 90 and 1987 Montauk) set up, with the CMC 4-inch brackets instead of the ML-65, but everything else is spot on. The low end vibration should all but disappear within a month or so. You should be able to trim waaay out to hit 5500 RPM. Once the engine has 20-30 hours you will notice that the power curve becomes smoother, and the top end should increase by a few hundred RPM.
kazankota	posted 07-17-2008 07:10 PM ET (US) So I've had the boat out a few times in the last 2 days and with approximately 430 #'s (2 adults and a child) in passenger weight I only reach approximately 4,900 RPM at 40.1 MPH (trimmed out). Rob, Do you think this will resolve as the motor "breaks in"? I can't imagine I would ever go to a 13.25 x 13 Stiletto. According to the archives it seems that this prop is ideally suited for this set-up, however I am wondering if there is something else I should experiment with to see if I can get the RPM's up a bit. -Torrey
davej14	posted 07-17-2008 07:31 PM ET (US) At low RPM's you may be hearing prop rattle. If your Stiletto prop uses a Flo-Torq hub, going to a Flo-Torq III will stop the noise.
Tohsgib	posted 07-18-2008 10:30 AM ET (US) Did you not read my post?
ratherwhalering	posted 07-18-2008 11:32 AM ET (US) I sugguest you raise it up another inch and see what gives.
ratherwhalering	posted 07-18-2008 11:37 AM ET (US) I'm sorry, Nick, I believe Kazankota was seeking knowledgeable advice ;-)
kazankota	posted 07-18-2008 01:39 PM ET (US) Nick, I did not ignore your post and should have commented earlier, sorry about that. I am concerned about raising it anymore as I notice that when I am out in open ocean (in swells) the prop will slip and cavitate at certain times. Also in calm water just before I get on plane it seems to slip slightly and once I am on plane the motor is much louder than I would expect, making me concerned of the mounting height. How do you know when you are mounted too high? If you feel it is a good idea to raise it a bit more I can try it.
ratherwhalering	posted 07-18-2008 02:36 PM ET (US) One thing I can think of is for you to go on a diet :-) Seriously, check the linkage to ensure WOT at the control box equates to WOT at the engine. If your prop is venting, then you are probably high enough. Do you have bottom paint, or any growth on the bottom? I believe the engine will settle in, and you may see a few more hundred RPM, but this is not fact, just an individual observation. The engine adds twice the amount of normal oil during the first 10 hours of operation above 1200 RPM, if I remember correctly. You can also try reprogramming to XD100 oil, which may help. I run 89 octane fuel, and I wonder if this may help. Check your trim tab, and ensure it is set correctly according to the owners guide. Finally, check your tachometer for accuracy. If it is a non-OEM tach, it may be reading low...this happened to me when I installed my engine. Your MPH sounds right in the ball park, and the engine operates very well at 5200 RPM, so if that is all you get, it still isn't bad at all.
kazankota	posted 07-18-2008 03:56 PM ET (US) There is bottom paint but no growth at all (painted for first time last year). The gauge is an Evinrude Systemcheck tachometer. The motor is programmed for XD100 oil and trim tab is set correctly. Not sure how to check the linkage to correlate WOT at control box compared to motor. One thing I have noticed is when I trim and start to get the increased RPM and speed I only have a litte room before I am out of the clean water. Is there any chance I'm too high? and going down an inch or 2 might give me more angle/room to trim up? I will most often operate with 1-2 folks on board so I just want to be sure that operating the boat at 4900 RPM is not putting too much strain on the motor. There is no chance I should go to a 13 pitch stiletto or try a 15p OMC SST/SST II, right?
crabby	posted 07-19-2008 01:11 PM ET (US) Ill provide another data point: I have a slightly different set-up: 1984 Montauk (bottom painted), 2004 90hp etec mounted on the transom two holes up, 15 inch Stiletto prop. Until recently I was only able to get about 5200 rpm's unless I managed to break the prop loose on a tight turn trimmed way out. For some reason over the past 6 months or so I have noticed that this motor has "loosened up" and I regularly hit 5500 rpm's at WOT. My usual running configuration is myself (190 pounds), the pooch (115 pounds), and about ten gallons of fuel. If you can wait about 500 hours it is possible that your motor may also come up to speed! One thing: along with this increase in rev's I also tend to blow out the prop a little more often and find myself seriously working the trim on turns thru tight channels.
kazankota	posted 07-19-2008 04:33 PM ET (US) I thought I would take some pics of the motor and set-up. http://s331.photobucket.com/albums/l478/kazankota/
Tom W Clark	posted 07-21-2008 12:02 AM ET (US) Torrey, It sounds as if you are nearly perfectly propped now. The E-TEC 90 has an optimum WOT RPM range of 5000-5200 RPM which is where you are at now. I think Rob is right, the motor may "loosen up" a bit after it has down with its programmed extra oiling. If the AV plate is only 2-1/2" above the keel now, you could afford to play with the height a bit. But really, I think that 42 MPH at 5100 RPM is right on.
kazankota	posted 07-21-2008 07:20 AM ET (US) Thanks for everyones input. I will take Nick's original advice and raise it up a bit and see what happens. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't creating problems by not running at the higher RPM range. -Torrey
Tohsgib	posted 07-21-2008 12:09 PM ET (US) That height looks pretty good and more than 2.5" above keel. If it is truly only 2.5" then raise it up an inch. My Montauk I was up about 4.5".
ratherwhalering	posted 07-22-2008 03:35 PM ET (US) Torrey, you may notice that the engine "growls" a bit when you raise it, and are decelerating. You are hearing the through hub exhaust. The closer to the water surface it is, less muffling there will be. I actually love this sound. Before you raise the engine up even more, (I agree with Nick that Stiletto can handle it) try taking a couple of tight turns, and check your grip while in the turns. When you straighten out from a tight turn, it might vent a little, but this is normal. Check grip on following seas also. I do not think a water pressure gauge is needed. I was concerned about water flow to the engine with the increased height, and installed one, but if you look at the E-TEC's water intakes, they are very low on the lower unit, and ideal for this set up.
bikingart	posted 07-22-2008 09:18 PM ET (US) I have been admiring your pictures as I consider making the step to a 90 e tec for my classic Montauk and am weighing the transom mount versus the jack plate. Could you explain the benefits of your jack plate and how you feel about it now that you have used it. I am pretty much fresh water so I have to select white or blue also. Thanks, Art
Joninnj	posted 07-26-2008 08:24 AM ET (US) kazankota, Very Nice set up. Good Luck. I am also interested in knowing about your jack plate. I have a 17 with Yamie 90. I noticed that the plate over laps the drains in the well. Did you do anything special to make it fit? Have Fun with this!
Tohsgib	posted 07-26-2008 08:54 AM ET (US) I ground out a little meat where it rested on the corner of my drain tube so it would not distort the brass when tightened down.
kazankota	posted 07-28-2008 08:50 PM ET (US) Art and Jon, The jackplate is nice because I am able to adjust the height of the motor dependent on the type of water I run in and the prop I use (bow lifting, etc) With some of the newer bow lifting props like the Stiletto you can have the engine mounted higer for better overall performance (speed, mpg, holeshot, etc). I can adjust the height of the motor in a minute or so. I have needed to adjust the motor height by a few inches up and down to see where it runs best, so it's nice to be able to adjust quickly. I have simply followed the advice of others who have similar set-ups. The CMC ML-65 is a wider jackplate and just barely overlaps the 2 splashwell drain holes. Those areas were just filed down a bit. -Torrey
kazankota	posted 06-09-2009 05:28 PM ET (US) So after all of last seasons use and into this season I am still in the same position. I get a maximum of about 5000 rpm at WOT with a top speed (gps) of 40.5 MPH. As soon as I load anyone in the boat it drops to anywhere between 4600-4900 depending on number/weight of occupants. The set-up is the same and I have raised the motor (anti-cavitation plate 2.5 to 3 inches above keel). Don't get me wrong... I am very happy with the set-up. I'm just wondering if something is off. I would like to get closer to the 5200 RPM with an average load and right now it's closer to 4800 RPM.