posted 07-22-2008 05:25 PM ET (US)        

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I am in the process of re-powering my Outrage 22 with whaler drive with a single Yamaha F250. Give me a suggestion of the best propeller for fuel economy and overall performance. Thanks

[Jump ahead to results.]

posted 07-24-2008 09:55 AM ET (US)            

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It might be tough to predict a prop without knowing more. Does it have a T-top or bottom paint? I remember a while back someone else had a 22' Outrage with WD and T-top and bottom paint and with an OX66 250, he was turning a 19" up to 5300 rpm. Certainly the OX66 is lighter, has a lower redline rpm,and some believe is more powerful so this may not be an exact comparison. Mikejana bought an OX66 250 from me and mounted it on a bracketed, full transom 22' and hit mid 50s with a 19". Tom usually leans towards conservative with his recommendations. Less pitch is less load and less risk of overloading, so I'll agree that establishing a benchmark with less pitch is wise. I just think it's very possible that a 17' prop may not be enough.

Chris

posted 07-24-2008 09:58 AM ET (US)            

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Oops.. A 17' prop would most likely be plenty of pitch.. make that a 17" prop may not be enough.

Chris

posted 07-24-2008 09:10 PM ET (US)            

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Trans Am, I was referring to 2 different boats. John from Madison Ct had a WD 22' with T-top and bottom paint and topped out at 5300 rpms (44 mph). Mikejana was much faster with the same engine and prop but with the reduced drag of a bracket instead of the WD. I don't know Mikejana's RPM with respect to the mid 50s he referenced. Be that as it may, we both can agree that a 19" may be a better choice..

Chris

posted 07-25-2008 01:45 PM ET (US)         

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As I am always eager to learn, could Tom or Peter elaborate on how they arrived at a 17' pitch? I have used the prop calculator here, as well as the Mercury Prop selector, and both are suggesting 19" or 20" pitch props. I'm wondering if I am using these selectors correctly.

I assumed 4,300 lbs +/- total weight, 6000 RPM, 2:1 gears, top speed 52+/- and 6% slip.

posted 07-25-2008 03:42 PM ET (US)            

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I have a 22' outrage WD with a 225 evinrude and 15" stilleto that turns almost 6000 rpm at 42.3 MPH . My Guess is that Tom is probably pretty close and I would not expect much more than 45 MPH.

Bruce

posted 07-25-2008 03:43 PM ET (US)            

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I don't know what to tell you other than what I have experienced with numerous Whaler hulls of various sizes.

Based on that experience, I would not bet on more than 45 MPH for a 22 Outrage WD with 250 HP on the transom. 45 MPH means a 17 inch pitch to achieve the top of the RPM band.

posted 07-25-2008 04:15 PM ET (US)         

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This thread has a similar ring to it.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005238.html

posted 07-25-2008 06:23 PM ET (US)            

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Also, John's 22 Outrage WD in that thread was running a 250 Ox66 which is a "hotter" motor than the F250.

As compared to my old Revenge 22, the 22 Outrage WD weighs the same but it drags the weight through the water.

posted 07-26-2008 01:07 AM ET (US)            

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I agree with much of what has been said above. An Outrage 22 WD is not going to do much more than 45 MPH with an F250.

45 MPH is what I used in my calculations.

posted 07-26-2008 07:45 AM ET (US)            

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Boston Whaler boats with a Whaler Drive and a single engine tend to have a relatively high engine mounting height due to the arrangement of the transom relative to the keel and drive. (You can see the dimensions involved in an illustration in

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/propellerWDSingle.html

The anti-ventilation plate will be about 2.5-inches above the keel. Also, the turbulence of the Whaler Drive tends to create a lot of aerated water. My experience is that propellers tend to run with more SLIP than usual. Those conditions suggest a propeller with blade design that can resist ventilation. I have found that the REVOLUTION4 propeller gave a good account in this application.

posted 07-26-2008 07:51 AM ET (US)            

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The most speed I have ever seen on my 22-foot hull with Whaler Drive (a REVENGE 22 W-T WD) is 42-MPH, and that is with 225-HP. With 250-HP you should expect

42 X (250/225)^0.5 = 44.3

The OUTRAGE is perhaps a few hundred pounds lighter than a REVENGE, so this should boost the top speed another few MPH, so 45-MPH is probably a good target speed.

posted 07-26-2008 10:50 AM ET (US)         

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I think it is odd that with a single Yamaha 250 OX66 on my 6,200 lb Temptation, I achieved 45.7 MPH (starboard) and 44.5 MPH (port). This was with a 23P prop for my twin engine set-up. These OX66's must realy be "hot"! :).

I wonder if the gearing can account for this (2:1 for the 4-stroke, 1.81 for the 2-stroke). When using the prop calculator and inserting my single engine data, I get a slip of 21% @ 45.7 MPH because the 23P prop is designed for the twin set-up. When the gear ratio is changed to that of a 4-stroke, the MPH drops to about 41.

posted 07-26-2008 10:58 AM ET (US)            

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We still don't know if this boat is bottom painted with/without a T-top do we?

For the record Tom, I didn't exactly disagree with your recomendation, I just believe that with low drag, a 19" is possible. If you took my input as doubt in your abilities, I sincerely beg your pardon.. You are the "Propellor Oracle" :)

Chris

posted 07-26-2008 01:06 PM ET (US)            

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Propeller.. And I am the spelling oracle.

Chris

posted 07-26-2008 03:08 PM ET (US)            

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Chris,

I put one of those winking smilie thingies at the end of my post.

Both Propeller and Propellor *are* correct spellings ;-)

posted 07-29-2008 06:23 PM ET (US)            

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I have a closed transom 22 Outrage with an after market bracket made to the whaler drive specs(ie same size, but aluminium). I'm running the matched ox-66 250 to CRBenny's.
My prop came from Tom Clark. He is always a pleasure to deal with. His first recommendation was spot on. Trust him.

I cruise around 3mpg in the mid to high 30s. Holeshot is great. Max speed is just over 50, mid 50s if empty and light load. Prop is 15 1/2 x 17 Yamaha Saltwater II.

Mike

posted 07-29-2008 07:09 PM ET (US)         

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Even so, those numbers are quite remarkable for that set-up. I was unaware a 17P prop was capable of mid 50's. I have found the prop calculator quite accurate, however, in order to achieve such numbers, the calculator sugggsts slip would be more than -10. At a more realistic slip of say 6%, MPH would be just under 46 with a 17P, which are the assumptions made in earlier prop recommendations.

That aside, I like your boat/set-up. I am looking for a similar 22 classic Outrage with either a closed transom or Whaler-drive.

posted 07-30-2008 10:01 AM ET (US)            

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The propeller I recommended and sold to Mike was a 15-1/4" x 19" Mercury MIRAGEplus, not a 17" Saltwater Serries II.

The MIRAGEplus usually runs with very little slip, 5-8 percent is typical.

posted 07-30-2008 04:04 PM ET (US)            

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That certainly makes more sense. When Mike and I loaded that OX66 250 on his truck, we briefly discussed with some certainty that the original 17" Saltwater Series prop the engine came with, would be too small. I remember in the post referencing his sea trials that 19" was his final choice.

Tom, I knew you were kidding around.. a wave of sarcasm came over me and I couldn't resist ;)

By the way Mike, I'd love to see some pics of your boat!

Chris

posted 07-31-2008 07:49 PM ET (US)            

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My 22 Outrage powered by 225 ETEC spinning 15.5 x 17P Rebel prop, w/ large T-Top, heavily painted bottom, rear seat, 1/4 tank fuel, and me (200 lbs) tops out at 49 mph @5600 rpm (trimmed out for max speed).

Throw in full fuel and 600 pounds of people and she tops out at 44-45 MPH @ 5500 rpm.

posted 08-02-2008 09:07 PM ET (US)            

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I have a Merc Enertia 21p prop on my Outrage 21 w/ Yamaha F250. Works perfect. It will fly.

I can't imagine an older 22 would weigh much more or require a 17p but who knows.

posted 08-02-2008 09:23 PM ET (US)            

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An Outrage 22 WD is nothing like an Outrage 21. It is three feet longer, weighs almost half again as much, has a 100 HP greater rating and a completely different hull design.

Yeah, I think a 17" pitch prop is where it's at.

posted 08-14-2008 10:32 AM ET (US)            

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[Apparently the Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 22 with Whaler Drive and Yamaha F250 being discussed here has a new owner, who now gives the following results obtaioned with a Saltwater Series 15-1/2 x 19 propeller.--jimh.]

We ran the [Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 22 Whaler Drive with recently installed Yamaha F250 four-cycle motor] last night with a [Saltwater Series 15-1/2 x 19 propeller]. I asked for the 17 pitch but the Dealer rigged it with a 19, he said he could work with it better from a 17. This is what we did in a light breeze SW 8 knots, 3/4-FULL tank of fuel, 65 gallons, two men, 8 [beer bottles] with 8-lbs ice in cooler:

3,000-RPM 16.3-MPH
4,000-RPM 23.4-MPH
4,500-RPM 33.2-MPH
5,000-RPM 37.5-MPH
5,500-RPM 42.5-MPH

I am going to try the 15 1/2 x 17 prop I have on order. Thanks again for the help and I will post results.

posted 08-14-2008 11:16 AM ET (US)            

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SaltWater Warrior,

What is your relation to trobson, the originator of this thread? I am confused.

Exactly what "19 pitch prop" do you refer to?

Exactly which 15-1/2" x 17" propeller have you ordered?

posted 08-14-2008 12:31 PM ET (US)            

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Tom, Salt Water Warrior, aka "Game Hog" to those who know him, was my next door neighbor for years. I sold him my Whaler so that his two young sons could be raised in a safe fishing environment. I introduced him to continuous wave website as the end all source for information, as well as comeraderie second to none.

tgrobson. (proud former whaler owner)

posted 08-22-2008 08:48 PM ET (US)            

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To summarize, so far we have the OUTRAGE 22 WD reaching 42.5-MPH with an F250 using a Saltwater Series 15-1/2 x 19 propeller. I think you are about 2- to 3-MPH below your ultimate possible top speed.

There seems to be a huge jump between 4,000-RPM and 4,500-RPM. The boat speed really goes up between those engine speeds.

Do you have any accurate data on the fuel consumption?

posted 08-23-2008 02:06 PM ET (US)            

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According to http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcatspecs/1/specs.aspx the gear ratio of the F250 is 2:1. Using the propeller calculator we get

RPM =5,500
RATIO = 2
PITCH = 19
MPH = 42.5

Calculated SLIP = 14.1 percent

That is a little higher SLIP than optimum. Usually on a single propeller you can get the SLIP down to about 10-percent, although on larger and heavier boats it is often harder to get to 10-percent SLIP.

The 19-inch pitch propeller is probably optimized for a higher speed, closer to 47 to 50-MPH. Let's see what we predict with a 17-inch propeller, with SLIP down to 8-percent, and the engine wound up to its red-line 6,000-RPM

RPM = 6,000
RATIO = 2
PITCH = 17
SLIP = 8

Calculated MPH = 44.4