posted 06-26-2009 11:57 AM ET (US)            

Doesn't VERADO come in an L4 200 HP? That is a lighter weight motor and might be an option.

Personally, I'd have my sights on either a pair of 225 OptiMax motors or 225 HP E-TEC motors if I was set on replacing the twins.

At 500 lbs each, you're closer to the ballpark and will still enjoy increased efficiency and the power/torque of a DFI 2-stroke.

Something to consider. I agree with the thought that the V-6 Verado may be too much weight, but understand your hankering for the DTS experience.

posted 06-26-2009 11:58 AM ET (US)            

One more reason to research OptiMax or E-TEC - standard bolt patterns - just plug and play on the transom.

posted 06-26-2009 08:27 PM ET (US)            

Standing on the Whaler Drive you have your author at 220-lbs, L H G at probably 180-lbs, and Buckda at probably 160-lbs, for a total of 560-lbs.

The total weight on the Whaler Drive is about 1,040-lbs. The water line is somewhat obscured by the dock, but you can see a portion of the transom of the Whaler Drive at the lower right of the image. There are several inches of freeboard left on the Whaler Drive. My interpretation of this loading test is that the boat could easily carry 1,040-lbs of engine on the Whaler Drive.

Again, this test was on a 22-foot hull with the REVENGE cabin on the forward part. Also the boat is loaded with full cruising gear in the cabin, so it has weight forward which might be helping to counter balance the load on the stern.

The image was taken on July 3, 2005 in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. The water is from Lake Superior and is probably rather cold fresh water. I would guess the water temperature was in the high 40-degrees-F range.

posted 06-26-2009 09:08 PM ET (US)            

http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/77SETransAm/?action=view& current=BoatPics-Deale004.jpg

posted 06-27-2009 08:03 PM ET (US)            

Tony

posted 06-28-2009 03:08 PM ET (US)            

And again here in a close-up of the Whaler Drive to better see the static waterline:

posted 06-30-2009 08:34 AM ET (US)            

What if cnorred scrapped his current whaler drive and installed a new bracket? One with a larger chamber to counter the weight of the newer heavier motors at rest?

There is a firm in Florida "Hermco" that fabricates custom fiberglass bolt on brackets so you could add more floatation a larger set back, and even match the gelcoat.

Yes, there is an added expense BUT with the cost of new engines and rigging it is a relatively small cost.

posted 06-30-2009 08:42 AM ET (US)            

As for repositioning the Whaler Drive unit itself, I would agree that it would be an enormous effort for unknown results. The Whaler Drive is attached via a combination of 16-20 lag and thru bolts. In addition, up to 4, 2" thru-transom rigging tubes would need to be moved higher as well. By doing so all of this, the buoyancy characteristics of the Whaler Drive would be altered (lessened) perhaps negating much of the effort of raising the mounting platform.

When we want greater performance from higher engine mounting heights on standard transom boats, the answer is not to build up the height of the transom. We simple add jack plates, and that would certainly be an option here. But I would want to know why the stern on this 25' Outrage sits so low to begin with.

posted 06-30-2009 08:59 AM ET (US)            

The added weight is estimated to be about 500-lbs. The density of water is about 64-lbs/ft^3. The added volume of the drive appendage which would have to be immersed at rest would therefore be

500-lbs x 1-feet^3/64-lbs = 7.7-feet^3

Since the maximum beam of the boat at the transom is about 8.5-feet, we can figure the bracket will be no wider than about 6.5-feet. This allows about one foot on each side. If we figure the bracket is 2-feet deep, we can estimate how much more draft we need in the bracket:

7.7-feet^3 / 6.5-feet = 1.1846-feet^2

1.1846-feet^2 / 2-feet = 0.5923-feet

0.5923-feet x 12-inch/1-foot = 7.1-inch

The new bracket, if roughly 6.5 x 2 feet in area, would have to have 7.1-inch more immersion in the water in order to displace 500-lbs of water and create the needed buoyancy.

You can see the arrangement of the Whaler Drive in this image:

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/images/propellerTest/ whalerDriveDimensions600x450.png

As shown, the current configuration of the Whaler Drive only provides about 2.25-inches of offset from the keel. This means that if the Whaler Drive were extended downward by 7.1-inches to create the needed buoyancy for the additional 500-lbs of motors, the Whaler Drive would now extend about 4.85 inches below the keel of the boat. We would have to change the name of this device to Whaler Drag from Whaler Drive.

This is a simplistic analysis because we have not considered that the added structure of the new drive appendage will increase its weight, so we might need more volume to compensate for the extra weight of the larger drive appendage.

We could also make the drive appendage longer, more than 24-inch setback, and this would reduce the needed depth of immersion. But moving the load back farther will have more effect on static trim, so at some point might make the problem worse, not better.

Assuming we finally found some way to increase the immersed volume of the drive appendage to handle 500-lbs of added engine weight, we would then have to consider how this was going to affect the performance of the hull. It certainly will add drag and wetted surface, both tending to decrease performance.

posted 06-30-2009 09:23 AM ET (US)            

quote:

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we would then have to consider how this was going to affect the performance of the hull. It certainly will add drag and wetted surface, both tending to decrease performance

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With a whaler drive I would agree with this statement but with a more efficient bracket with 30" or even 36" of setback(assuming we could maintain at least 2.25" from the keel) I am not so sure

The whaler drive never lifts out of the water while the boat is on plane so the wetted surface creates drag through the entire range of running speed(correct me if I am wrong as I do not own a boat with a whaler drive and this is how it has been described to me)

Other brackets running surfaces are only wet at slower speeds but while on plane the wetted surface is out of the water. I know this as I have owned boats with flotation brackets. it also gets the drives into cleaner water out past the edge of the boats transom.

A newer style bracket should do at least 2 things:

1: increase buoyancy at rest, looking at jimh's calculations it may not be possible but with a 30" or 36" setback I think it is.

2: Increase performance at planing speeds as there is decreased wetted surface, compared to a whaler drive.

now if I am wrong and the whaler drive does get out of the water at a plane, my apologies.

posted 06-30-2009 09:47 AM ET (US)            

The Whaler Drive is not just an outboard bracket but an extension of the hull itself.

posted 06-30-2009 05:29 PM ET (US)            

quote:

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On this basis it does not seem like a good plan to compensate for added weight by discarding the Whaler Drive and installing a new bracket with increased set back distance.

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with thinking like that it would be hard to make forward progress, no? I would rather do my homework and have a better performing boat than deal with current inadequacies (who is to tell it is structurally sound now, btw?).

posted 06-30-2009 05:54 PM ET (US)            

The current 255 Conquest with an 8'9" beam and dry weight of almost 5,000lbs (1500 lbs more than the boat in question here)is only rated to handle a maximum of twin L4 200 HP Verados. That should tell you something, since higher displacement (and heavier) 200 HP Verados are also available.

posted 06-30-2009 07:08 PM ET (US)            

contender 25 older version bracketed
regulator 26 bracketed
conch 27 notch transom (twin 300's)
yellowfin 23 integrated transom
seacraft 23 tournament intergrated transom

sure they are all different but none are a far stretch from the subject boat

Ask LHG the performace difference between a whaler drive and his bracket. The whaler drive is not a bonus for performace but rather deck space.

posted 07-01-2009 08:35 AM ET (US)            

quote:

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"I talked to the service representative at Boston Whaler. He states the Whaler Drive max load is 980 pounds for [an OUTRAGE 25 Cuddy]."

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