OUTRAGE 25, Twin E-TEC 130-HP - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  OUTRAGE 25, Twin E-TEC 130-HP

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 25, Twin E-TEC 130-HP

Bert Zwueste posted 06-29-2009 08:21 AM ET (US)
Yesterday we were finally able to take the [Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 25] out for a test drive that now has been re-powered with twin E-TEC 130-HP engines. I have to say that all expectations were fulfilled. We reached a maximum speed of 42.9-MPH at 5,500-RPM. I bought the Rogue 13x17 four-blade propellers.
When I started the engines for the first time in the water I had to make sure that they were running. There is a nice feature that prevents the start motor from turning again once the engine has started.
Shifting is as smooth as silk. No need for DTS (for me).
The experience is so good that it’s hard to describe
The engines come with an additional fuel filter inside the cowling with water sensor. Especially with older boat I believe that this is a very wise move.
It was also interesting to see all the data on the laptop connected to the EMM. I felt like a formula one driver
We still need to do some tweaking. We installed the twin E-TEC 130-H engines with toe in, but a bit too much (one inch). They are also mounted all the way down on the transom (with a 1/2-inch clearance between the top of the transom and the engines bracket.
Another nice feature is the trailer bracket. This is a very sturdy bracket that the engine can rest on during trailering when tilted. It is also easy to adjust the trim limit switches (just with some clicks under the tilt tube).
I will post some picture as soon as I can find the download cable my camera
For now I have a very big E-TEC smile.
jimh posted 06-29-2009 08:43 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the report. When you have the opportunity, it would be interesting to know if the boat can reach plane with only one engine.
Bert Zwueste posted 06-29-2009 10:27 AM ET (US)
I will try it on my next run. I used to be able to do this with the old set up (2x 140hp)
A great feature of dual binnacle control is that there are separate trim and tilt buttons for the port and starboard engine on the housing and there is one common button on the port throttle lever. So once you have the engines at the same trim position you can trim them both simultaneously with only one button
Tom W Clark posted 06-29-2009 10:32 AM ET (US)
The motors should be raised at least one hole. Given they are Evinrudes, you should probably raise them two holes.
The factory recommendation for toe on the 25 foot classic Whalers is 1/2" - 3/4" of toe-in.
Bert Zwueste posted 06-29-2009 02:32 PM ET (US)
Tom,
I will discuss raising the engines with the dealer. What I did notice is that it seems like the rear of the boat becomes very light (could also be the steering) although the propellers never lost grip on the water (and I trimmed them way up).
Another thing we noticed is the push that we get once on plane and over 3000 RPM. I was told that these engines have a valve in the exhaust that opens up over a certain RPM. I wonder if this causes the push (It is as if a turbo kicks in)
Can you tell me what the effect is of excessive toe in?
TransAm posted 06-29-2009 09:12 PM ET (US)
From a neutral position, I have had my twin Yamaha 250's adjusted from 1" toe out to 1" toe in, both for extended periods of time. I felt absolutely no difference in performance.
TransAm posted 06-29-2009 09:22 PM ET (US)
Unless the pitch of the prop is adjusted for single operation it would be extremely difficult to plane a 25' Outrage on a single 130 HP motor. With a predicted top speed of approximately 30 MPH with only 130 HP, it is hard to imagine the boat/motor producing enough power to push past the displacement/planing transition, especially given the motors over-propped condition.
Peter posted 06-29-2009 09:48 PM ET (US)
If a single Evinrude Ficht 225 on my Whaler 27 WD, which is rated for a 600 HP maximum, can put my Whaler 27 WD on plane in the overpropped condition, there's no reason why an E-TEC 130 couldn't do it on a 25 Outrage which has much less beam and is much lighter.
TransAm posted 06-29-2009 10:07 PM ET (US)
Personally, I would not want that type of stress on my motor for more than a very short period of time.
Tom W Clark posted 06-29-2009 11:09 PM ET (US)
I am sure a single E-TEC 130 could easily bring an Outrage 25 on plane, even when overpropped. My old 2.0 liter Mercury 150s on my Revenge 25 do it easily with 19" pitch props and have pushed it for over an hour on several occasions now (unfortunately). No problem.
Bert -- What do you mean by "the rear of the boat becomes very light"?
Excessive tow in will increase the steering effort and reduce sped a bit due to the added drag. Yes, it is very subtle, but you can feel it.
Excessive toe-out can cause the boat to tend to roll one way or the other as if the bow is "hunting" a bit.
Bert Zwueste posted 06-30-2009 07:44 AM ET (US)
Hopefully I can do the single engine test today in the afternoon.
Tom have you ever seen somebody on a motorcycle having the rear swaying from left to right when driving away. When I say that the rear becomes light, it feels just like that.
The steering is very light at higher speeds
I have to say that I also changed the hydraulic steering cylinder (Teleflex HC 5345). This one connects to the first hole on the pit arm closest to the engine. This is a big difference compared to the old one that connected to an adapter that extended the pit arm and used a slide. The new one doesn’t use the slide anymore
TransAm posted 06-30-2009 08:31 AM ET (US)
Bert, It would be nice to hear of some data regarding your attempt to plane on a single engine. Things like time to plane, and at what RPM's and speed you are able to achieve at WOT on a single engine.
Bert Zwueste posted 06-30-2009 10:08 AM ET (US)
Will do. Hope video it
TransAm posted 06-30-2009 10:14 AM ET (US)
I think the success and ease in which your Outrage may plane on a single motor will depend in part on the propeller. I am not familiar with the Rogue and its tendencies. A video would be interesting to view.
Peter posted 06-30-2009 11:41 AM ET (US)
The Roque is a 4 blade propeller. It should provide plenty of traction for a single 130 to get the Outrage 25 on plane.
Bert Zwueste posted 07-01-2009 08:44 PM ET (US)
I'm happy to report that one engine will plane the boat.
With both engines lowered the top speed is about 17 mph at a bit more then 3000 rpm (max). I did not do this for long by the way.
With one engine tilted up the top speed was 22mph and climbing slowly (rpm about 4000)
The boat planed fairly quickly both times but I did not floor the throttle but just gradually increased it and also trimmed the engine up a bit. it took about 20 seconds to get to planing the boat
Unfortunate no video as I was by myself in the boat
tank was 3/8th
TransAm posted 07-02-2009 09:03 AM ET (US)
Bert, 22 mph is about the lowest speed at which you boat will maintain plane. 4,000 RPM at WOT to maintain this is a bit of a stress on the motor. It must have been working hard. I wonder what your results might be with a more moderate crew of 4 adults, gear and additional fuel. Do you think you could plane the boat on a single motor with another 1,000 lbs aboard?
Bert Zwueste posted 07-02-2009 09:57 AM ET (US)
Transam
I believe the boat planes at about 14 mph . Of course with more people on board it will become more difficult . an additional 500lbs won't matter but a 1000lbs might be to much
You are right about the stress on the motor so i only did this for a short while. A propeller with let pitch would certainly help
Peter posted 07-02-2009 10:07 AM ET (US)
There is no doubt that the motor is stressed more when running as a single with a propeller set up for twins. Of course there is some point that you could load up the boat with enough weight that it won't plane with a single engine.
TransAm posted 07-02-2009 10:25 AM ET (US)
My point is not to suggest that loading the boat up with excessive weight will prove some theory about planing. I enjoy learning about these things, and a reasonable load condition on a 25' Outrage would be an operator and a couple of buddies, some coolers, gear and 3/4 tank of fuel as might be expected on a typical fishing outing. This is when being able to plane on a single motor (in the event of a offshore or other far away engine failure) would provide the most benefit. I was suspicious about the notion that a single 130 HP motor could "easily" plane a 25' Outrage, but I won't argue semantics. If your boat does indeed plane at 14 mph, that would be exceptional. Most reports I have read here suggest Whalers in this size range begin to fall off plane at 22 MPH or so. Your E-tec 130 must have good low end torque. Good luck with your set-up-it sounds like a very sharp boat and probably gets great fuel economy.
Peter posted 07-02-2009 10:31 AM ET (US)
My 27 Whaler WD, with the motors tucked in WILL maintain plane at 14 MPH with 200 gallons of fuel aboard. 4 blade propellers are necessary to do this.
TransAm posted 07-02-2009 10:34 AM ET (US)
Will it do that on a single motor?
TransAm posted 07-02-2009 10:35 AM ET (US)
My Temptation will also maintain plane at about 14 mph, but only with the thrust of both motors. On a single, the planing speed is much higher, at least for me.
Buckda posted 07-02-2009 11:01 AM ET (US)
I've found that when trying to operate on a single engine it sometimes helps to move weight around in the boat (especially passengers) to get through the transition to plane.
If you were in a true emergency situation at sea, I'd argue to move all coolers into the bow and have your passengers there until you were up on step and running.
Just a thought.
Peter posted 07-02-2009 07:19 PM ET (US)
Not much higher with only one engine. The 27 WD has the benefit of built-in trim tabs. Lowering the tab on the unpowered side helps balance the off center thrust. Makes it much easier to get on plane.
Bert Zwueste posted 07-02-2009 09:43 PM ET (US)
Buckda is right. It helps to put the weight in the front.
By the way Most of the comments that I get now from people that see me with the new engines is that they think they are small (in size not horse power). I guess that people are getting used to larger engines.
If one engine fails I would not try to get the boat to plane on one engine to get home. It is however easy to maintain a speed around 8 mph without stressing the engine. I believe that is better then a stressed kicker to bring you home
Peter posted 07-02-2009 10:03 PM ET (US)
Bert -- Because both of your engines are right hand rotation (I presume) you can carry a single spare propeller 4 inches less pitch to provide capability of getting home on plane on one engine (if you can find a place to change the propeller). Something like a 13 inch pitch aluminum Hydrus pontoon boat propeller would do the trick.
TransAm posted 07-02-2009 10:59 PM ET (US)
Curious why you didn't opt for counter-rotating motors?
Bert Zwueste posted 07-03-2009 06:45 AM ET (US)
counter rotation is not available for the 130 hp E-Tecs. The old setup wasn't counter rotating either. I never missed it.
Peter makes a good point. A spare smaller pitch propeller would do the trick but you need a place to change it. It also in this set up would fit on either motor.
Took the boat out yesterday again. I now have 4.5 hours on each engine. my smile is getting bigger and bigger.
The shifting is so good that I'm playing with it all the time
The new binnacle control is a lot bigger then the old one. apparently the shifting mechanism inside has been redesigned. It is really good
Peter posted 07-03-2009 07:26 AM ET (US)
I don't think anybody makes a counter rotation motor in a 20 inch shaft.
TransAm posted 07-03-2009 07:33 AM ET (US)
Right, 20" shafts. I'm programmed to think whaler-drive. But they do make the 130 in a counter-rotating 25".
Bert Zwueste posted 07-03-2009 11:36 PM ET (US)
I posted this video today on the net. Had to hold the (small) camera in one hand and steer the boat with the other so it’s kind of shaky but it gives you an idea.
Peter posted 07-04-2009 07:14 AM ET (US)
Very nice. Looks great. Gets on plane almost instantly. I really like the sound the V4s make when powering up and on plane.
The binnacle control looks like it has a larger footprint but perhaps shorter levers than the older OMC dual control.
If you didn't have 4-blade propellers on the old motors, I'll bet you find docking control with these 4-blade propellers is better although you still don't have the benefit of counter rotation. With counter rotation, I can steer the stern of my Whaler 27 WD using the opposing propeller walk.
Bert Zwueste posted 07-04-2009 09:50 PM ET (US)
Thanks Peter
Yes she comes out of the hole pretty quick and the 4 blade propellors are a blast

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 25, Twin E-TEC 130-HP
Bert Zwueste	posted 06-29-2009 08:21 AM ET (US) Yesterday we were finally able to take the [Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 25] out for a test drive that now has been re-powered with twin E-TEC 130-HP engines. I have to say that all expectations were fulfilled. We reached a maximum speed of 42.9-MPH at 5,500-RPM. I bought the Rogue 13x17 four-blade propellers. When I started the engines for the first time in the water I had to make sure that they were running. There is a nice feature that prevents the start motor from turning again once the engine has started. Shifting is as smooth as silk. No need for DTS (for me). The experience is so good that it’s hard to describe The engines come with an additional fuel filter inside the cowling with water sensor. Especially with older boat I believe that this is a very wise move. It was also interesting to see all the data on the laptop connected to the EMM. I felt like a formula one driver We still need to do some tweaking. We installed the twin E-TEC 130-H engines with toe in, but a bit too much (one inch). They are also mounted all the way down on the transom (with a 1/2-inch clearance between the top of the transom and the engines bracket. Another nice feature is the trailer bracket. This is a very sturdy bracket that the engine can rest on during trailering when tilted. It is also easy to adjust the trim limit switches (just with some clicks under the tilt tube). I will post some picture as soon as I can find the download cable my camera For now I have a very big E-TEC smile.
jimh	posted 06-29-2009 08:43 AM ET (US) Thanks for the report. When you have the opportunity, it would be interesting to know if the boat can reach plane with only one engine.
Bert Zwueste	posted 06-29-2009 10:27 AM ET (US) I will try it on my next run. I used to be able to do this with the old set up (2x 140hp) A great feature of dual binnacle control is that there are separate trim and tilt buttons for the port and starboard engine on the housing and there is one common button on the port throttle lever. So once you have the engines at the same trim position you can trim them both simultaneously with only one button
Tom W Clark	posted 06-29-2009 10:32 AM ET (US) The motors should be raised at least one hole. Given they are Evinrudes, you should probably raise them two holes. The factory recommendation for toe on the 25 foot classic Whalers is 1/2" - 3/4" of toe-in.
Bert Zwueste	posted 06-29-2009 02:32 PM ET (US) Tom, I will discuss raising the engines with the dealer. What I did notice is that it seems like the rear of the boat becomes very light (could also be the steering) although the propellers never lost grip on the water (and I trimmed them way up). Another thing we noticed is the push that we get once on plane and over 3000 RPM. I was told that these engines have a valve in the exhaust that opens up over a certain RPM. I wonder if this causes the push (It is as if a turbo kicks in) Can you tell me what the effect is of excessive toe in?
TransAm	posted 06-29-2009 09:12 PM ET (US) From a neutral position, I have had my twin Yamaha 250's adjusted from 1" toe out to 1" toe in, both for extended periods of time. I felt absolutely no difference in performance.
TransAm	posted 06-29-2009 09:22 PM ET (US) Unless the pitch of the prop is adjusted for single operation it would be extremely difficult to plane a 25' Outrage on a single 130 HP motor. With a predicted top speed of approximately 30 MPH with only 130 HP, it is hard to imagine the boat/motor producing enough power to push past the displacement/planing transition, especially given the motors over-propped condition.
Peter	posted 06-29-2009 09:48 PM ET (US) If a single Evinrude Ficht 225 on my Whaler 27 WD, which is rated for a 600 HP maximum, can put my Whaler 27 WD on plane in the overpropped condition, there's no reason why an E-TEC 130 couldn't do it on a 25 Outrage which has much less beam and is much lighter.
TransAm	posted 06-29-2009 10:07 PM ET (US) Personally, I would not want that type of stress on my motor for more than a very short period of time.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-29-2009 11:09 PM ET (US) I am sure a single E-TEC 130 could easily bring an Outrage 25 on plane, even when overpropped. My old 2.0 liter Mercury 150s on my Revenge 25 do it easily with 19" pitch props and have pushed it for over an hour on several occasions now (unfortunately). No problem. Bert -- What do you mean by "the rear of the boat becomes very light"? Excessive tow in will increase the steering effort and reduce sped a bit due to the added drag. Yes, it is very subtle, but you can feel it. Excessive toe-out can cause the boat to tend to roll one way or the other as if the bow is "hunting" a bit.
Bert Zwueste	posted 06-30-2009 07:44 AM ET (US) Hopefully I can do the single engine test today in the afternoon. Tom have you ever seen somebody on a motorcycle having the rear swaying from left to right when driving away. When I say that the rear becomes light, it feels just like that. The steering is very light at higher speeds I have to say that I also changed the hydraulic steering cylinder (Teleflex HC 5345). This one connects to the first hole on the pit arm closest to the engine. This is a big difference compared to the old one that connected to an adapter that extended the pit arm and used a slide. The new one doesn’t use the slide anymore
TransAm	posted 06-30-2009 08:31 AM ET (US) Bert, It would be nice to hear of some data regarding your attempt to plane on a single engine. Things like time to plane, and at what RPM's and speed you are able to achieve at WOT on a single engine.
Bert Zwueste	posted 06-30-2009 10:08 AM ET (US) Will do. Hope video it
TransAm	posted 06-30-2009 10:14 AM ET (US) I think the success and ease in which your Outrage may plane on a single motor will depend in part on the propeller. I am not familiar with the Rogue and its tendencies. A video would be interesting to view.
Peter	posted 06-30-2009 11:41 AM ET (US) The Roque is a 4 blade propeller. It should provide plenty of traction for a single 130 to get the Outrage 25 on plane.
Bert Zwueste	posted 07-01-2009 08:44 PM ET (US) I'm happy to report that one engine will plane the boat. With both engines lowered the top speed is about 17 mph at a bit more then 3000 rpm (max). I did not do this for long by the way. With one engine tilted up the top speed was 22mph and climbing slowly (rpm about 4000) The boat planed fairly quickly both times but I did not floor the throttle but just gradually increased it and also trimmed the engine up a bit. it took about 20 seconds to get to planing the boat Unfortunate no video as I was by myself in the boat tank was 3/8th
TransAm	posted 07-02-2009 09:03 AM ET (US) Bert, 22 mph is about the lowest speed at which you boat will maintain plane. 4,000 RPM at WOT to maintain this is a bit of a stress on the motor. It must have been working hard. I wonder what your results might be with a more moderate crew of 4 adults, gear and additional fuel. Do you think you could plane the boat on a single motor with another 1,000 lbs aboard?
Bert Zwueste	posted 07-02-2009 09:57 AM ET (US) Transam I believe the boat planes at about 14 mph . Of course with more people on board it will become more difficult . an additional 500lbs won't matter but a 1000lbs might be to much You are right about the stress on the motor so i only did this for a short while. A propeller with let pitch would certainly help
Peter	posted 07-02-2009 10:07 AM ET (US) There is no doubt that the motor is stressed more when running as a single with a propeller set up for twins. Of course there is some point that you could load up the boat with enough weight that it won't plane with a single engine.
TransAm	posted 07-02-2009 10:25 AM ET (US) My point is not to suggest that loading the boat up with excessive weight will prove some theory about planing. I enjoy learning about these things, and a reasonable load condition on a 25' Outrage would be an operator and a couple of buddies, some coolers, gear and 3/4 tank of fuel as might be expected on a typical fishing outing. This is when being able to plane on a single motor (in the event of a offshore or other far away engine failure) would provide the most benefit. I was suspicious about the notion that a single 130 HP motor could "easily" plane a 25' Outrage, but I won't argue semantics. If your boat does indeed plane at 14 mph, that would be exceptional. Most reports I have read here suggest Whalers in this size range begin to fall off plane at 22 MPH or so. Your E-tec 130 must have good low end torque. Good luck with your set-up-it sounds like a very sharp boat and probably gets great fuel economy.
Peter	posted 07-02-2009 10:31 AM ET (US) My 27 Whaler WD, with the motors tucked in WILL maintain plane at 14 MPH with 200 gallons of fuel aboard. 4 blade propellers are necessary to do this.
TransAm	posted 07-02-2009 10:34 AM ET (US) Will it do that on a single motor?
TransAm	posted 07-02-2009 10:35 AM ET (US) My Temptation will also maintain plane at about 14 mph, but only with the thrust of both motors. On a single, the planing speed is much higher, at least for me.
Buckda	posted 07-02-2009 11:01 AM ET (US) I've found that when trying to operate on a single engine it sometimes helps to move weight around in the boat (especially passengers) to get through the transition to plane. If you were in a true emergency situation at sea, I'd argue to move all coolers into the bow and have your passengers there until you were up on step and running. Just a thought.
Peter	posted 07-02-2009 07:19 PM ET (US) Not much higher with only one engine. The 27 WD has the benefit of built-in trim tabs. Lowering the tab on the unpowered side helps balance the off center thrust. Makes it much easier to get on plane.
Bert Zwueste	posted 07-02-2009 09:43 PM ET (US) Buckda is right. It helps to put the weight in the front. By the way Most of the comments that I get now from people that see me with the new engines is that they think they are small (in size not horse power). I guess that people are getting used to larger engines. If one engine fails I would not try to get the boat to plane on one engine to get home. It is however easy to maintain a speed around 8 mph without stressing the engine. I believe that is better then a stressed kicker to bring you home
Peter	posted 07-02-2009 10:03 PM ET (US) Bert -- Because both of your engines are right hand rotation (I presume) you can carry a single spare propeller 4 inches less pitch to provide capability of getting home on plane on one engine (if you can find a place to change the propeller). Something like a 13 inch pitch aluminum Hydrus pontoon boat propeller would do the trick.
TransAm	posted 07-02-2009 10:59 PM ET (US) Curious why you didn't opt for counter-rotating motors?
Bert Zwueste	posted 07-03-2009 06:45 AM ET (US) counter rotation is not available for the 130 hp E-Tecs. The old setup wasn't counter rotating either. I never missed it. Peter makes a good point. A spare smaller pitch propeller would do the trick but you need a place to change it. It also in this set up would fit on either motor. Took the boat out yesterday again. I now have 4.5 hours on each engine. my smile is getting bigger and bigger. The shifting is so good that I'm playing with it all the time The new binnacle control is a lot bigger then the old one. apparently the shifting mechanism inside has been redesigned. It is really good
Peter	posted 07-03-2009 07:26 AM ET (US) I don't think anybody makes a counter rotation motor in a 20 inch shaft.
TransAm	posted 07-03-2009 07:33 AM ET (US) Right, 20" shafts. I'm programmed to think whaler-drive. But they do make the 130 in a counter-rotating 25".
Bert Zwueste	posted 07-03-2009 11:36 PM ET (US) I posted this video today on the net. Had to hold the (small) camera in one hand and steer the boat with the other so it’s kind of shaky but it gives you an idea.
Peter	posted 07-04-2009 07:14 AM ET (US) Very nice. Looks great. Gets on plane almost instantly. I really like the sound the V4s make when powering up and on plane. The binnacle control looks like it has a larger footprint but perhaps shorter levers than the older OMC dual control. If you didn't have 4-blade propellers on the old motors, I'll bet you find docking control with these 4-blade propellers is better although you still don't have the benefit of counter rotation. With counter rotation, I can steer the stern of my Whaler 27 WD using the opposing propeller walk.
Bert Zwueste	posted 07-04-2009 09:50 PM ET (US) Thanks Peter Yes she comes out of the hole pretty quick and the 4 blade propellors are a blast