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Author Topic:   Justice 19 Re-power

96Justice posted 08-16-2009 05:01 PM ET (US)
I just got a 1996 Justice 19 and had a re-power done with a Suzuki 225-HP. The performance with a 21-pitch propeller is very poor with the boat topping out at 42-MPH and 5,500-RPM. I was expecting a little more out of this boat. Any ideas or is this it?
Perry posted 08-16-2009 07:42 PM ET (US)
Need more info to help you out:
What motor was mounted on the boat before the repower?
How was its performance compared to the new DF225?
How high is the DF225 mounted?
How is the bottom of you boat, is it painted, does your boat have a T-Top?
How is your boat normally loaded?
Which 21" pitch prop are you using?
You are 500 RPM below the max RPM for your motor, maybe you should drop 2" of pitch.
Tom W Clark posted 08-16-2009 08:33 PM ET (US)
A 1996 Justice 21 should be hitting 50 MPH with 225 HP. Something is very wrong. Either the motor is not running right or the hull is VERY heavy.
96Justice posted 08-16-2009 09:01 PM ET (US)
A Mercury 225 2 stroke was mounted before and I never got to ride in it. I bought the hull only.
[The Suzuki DF225] is a 25-inch shaft motor and mounted correctly as far as the cavitation plate being even with the bottom of the boat. The bottom of the boat is not painted and it does have a T-Top. I have not had much of a load other than a full tank of gas. The boat has trim tabs but didn't think that should make that much of a difference. The propeller is a 15 by 21-pitch three-blade.
I got rid of a Montauk 17, and this thing is a tank compared to it. I am assuming that the reference to very heavy means that you think the hull may be water logged?
jimh posted 08-17-2009 07:50 AM ET (US)
What is the gear ratio of the DF225?
Peter posted 08-17-2009 08:44 AM ET (US)
2.29:1. With a WOT maximum of 6100, a 21 inch pitch propeller with 6 percent slip should be able to reach 50 MPH. The propeller calculator shows this particular rig has about 12 percent slip at WOT. That coupled with a low WOT RPM tells me that the motor may be overpropped and that this boat will not reach 50 MPH with the Suzuki 225 in the current configuration.
It may also be that this motor needs to be raised up by a bolt hole or two.
Tom W Clark posted 08-17-2009 11:29 AM ET (US)
It is unreasonable to expect the Suzuki 15" x 21" propeller to run with less than 10 percent slip on a boat of this size with a single. 12 percent slip is normal.
The T-top will kill some speed. I would still expect it to do 46-48 MPH assuming there is not a lot of added equipment onboard.

quote:
The...motor and mounted correctly as far as the cavitation plate being even with the bottom of the boat.
No, that is not correct. The cavitation plate should be above the bottom of the boat. If the motor is mounted as you describe, it needs to be raised at least one set of bolt holes (3/4").
Trim tabs can have a profound effect on boat speed especially if they are not fully retracted during your WOT speed test.
How you trim the motor will also have a great effect on boat speed. May we assume you are trimming the motor out appropriately when you tested top speed?
Tohsgib posted 08-17-2009 11:37 AM ET (US)
Just read a writeup in Boating and they had a DF225 with a 21.5" Suzuki prop and it did a tad over 50 at 6k. If you do NOT get the rpm's up to 6k it will probably not perform well. Have them check your linkage so you are getting WFO and raise that engine up a couple inches. Suzukis do NOT like to be run low.
96Justice posted 08-19-2009 07:54 PM ET (US)
http://s755.photobucket.com/albums/xx194/pjhenderson/
I am pretty much at a loss with this boat. I attached a link to some pictures I took of the transom. From my experience everything looks OK. The prop is a Solas Lexor 15x21 stainless. This boat is a pig right now. For a 19 foot boat with a 225 to only hit 43 mph and barely pull a skier out of the water, I have serious issues. Is my next step is to start moving the mounting of the engine around because I can't believe I need to drop the prop pitch on a boat this size. Thanks.
R T M posted 08-19-2009 08:21 PM ET (US)
Did you re power with a new or used Suzuki? Is the engine carbureted or FI?
rich/Binkie
96Justice posted 08-19-2009 08:42 PM ET (US)
It is a new DF225. Fuel Injected. 4 stroke.
Tohsgib posted 08-20-2009 11:03 AM ET (US)
Is the linkage adjusted correctly?
phatwhaler posted 08-20-2009 01:36 PM ET (US)
A DF225 is probably not the best choice of engines for that boat. That particular hull is sensitive to weight in the back of the boat, as all short wide boats are, and will porpoise pretty bad with a 600lb motor back there.
I see 49mph on my 1996 19 Outrage with a 1996 200 Merc turning a 19 pitch prop.
19Justice should be doing about the same considering the commerical layup and 150 extra pounds of motor.
I figure my boat weighs around 3700 lbs with me in the boat and 1/2 fuel.
I would trade the 225 for a 175.
Tohsgib posted 08-21-2009 10:51 AM ET (US)
I doubt 150lbs would throw him off 7mph.
Tom W Clark posted 08-21-2009 11:16 AM ET (US)
I agree with Nick. Something else is at play here than just the motor's weight.
The weight difference between the 19' Outrage III and the 19' Justice is also quite small, only 135 pounds. The 19' Justice weighs 2335 pounds vs. 2200 pounds for the 19' Outrage.
The current motor mounting height looks OK. While it might go up another hole that will not account for the profound loss of performance either.
I think you need to start looking at the motor and how it is running. The propeller you have is not that far off the mark though you might experiment with a better prop in a lower pitch as well.
Peter posted 08-21-2009 01:13 PM ET (US)
Simple thing: check to make sure all the sparkplug leads are securely fit to the sparkplugs. Perhaps one plug is not firing.
hagerg posted 08-21-2009 07:54 PM ET (US)
Make sure you have good fuel. I ended up draining my tank completely and starting over. Cars will run ok on questionable gas, my outboard didn't. Not sure that adding good gas to bad cuts it. Others here can probably answer that better. My issue was the motor (carbs needed rebuilt)

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Author	Topic: Justice 19 Re-power
96Justice	posted 08-16-2009 05:01 PM ET (US) I just got a 1996 Justice 19 and had a re-power done with a Suzuki 225-HP. The performance with a 21-pitch propeller is very poor with the boat topping out at 42-MPH and 5,500-RPM. I was expecting a little more out of this boat. Any ideas or is this it?
Perry	posted 08-16-2009 07:42 PM ET (US) Need more info to help you out: What motor was mounted on the boat before the repower? How was its performance compared to the new DF225? How high is the DF225 mounted? How is the bottom of you boat, is it painted, does your boat have a T-Top? How is your boat normally loaded? Which 21" pitch prop are you using? You are 500 RPM below the max RPM for your motor, maybe you should drop 2" of pitch.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-16-2009 08:33 PM ET (US) A 1996 Justice 21 should be hitting 50 MPH with 225 HP. Something is very wrong. Either the motor is not running right or the hull is VERY heavy.
96Justice	posted 08-16-2009 09:01 PM ET (US) A Mercury 225 2 stroke was mounted before and I never got to ride in it. I bought the hull only. [The Suzuki DF225] is a 25-inch shaft motor and mounted correctly as far as the cavitation plate being even with the bottom of the boat. The bottom of the boat is not painted and it does have a T-Top. I have not had much of a load other than a full tank of gas. The boat has trim tabs but didn't think that should make that much of a difference. The propeller is a 15 by 21-pitch three-blade. I got rid of a Montauk 17, and this thing is a tank compared to it. I am assuming that the reference to very heavy means that you think the hull may be water logged?
jimh	posted 08-17-2009 07:50 AM ET (US) What is the gear ratio of the DF225?
Peter	posted 08-17-2009 08:44 AM ET (US) 2.29:1. With a WOT maximum of 6100, a 21 inch pitch propeller with 6 percent slip should be able to reach 50 MPH. The propeller calculator shows this particular rig has about 12 percent slip at WOT. That coupled with a low WOT RPM tells me that the motor may be overpropped and that this boat will not reach 50 MPH with the Suzuki 225 in the current configuration. It may also be that this motor needs to be raised up by a bolt hole or two.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-17-2009 11:29 AM ET (US) It is unreasonable to expect the Suzuki 15" x 21" propeller to run with less than 10 percent slip on a boat of this size with a single. 12 percent slip is normal. The T-top will kill some speed. I would still expect it to do 46-48 MPH assuming there is not a lot of added equipment onboard. quote: The...motor and mounted correctly as far as the cavitation plate being even with the bottom of the boat. No, that is not correct. The cavitation plate should be above the bottom of the boat. If the motor is mounted as you describe, it needs to be raised at least one set of bolt holes (3/4"). Trim tabs can have a profound effect on boat speed especially if they are not fully retracted during your WOT speed test. How you trim the motor will also have a great effect on boat speed. May we assume you are trimming the motor out appropriately when you tested top speed?
Tohsgib	posted 08-17-2009 11:37 AM ET (US) Just read a writeup in Boating and they had a DF225 with a 21.5" Suzuki prop and it did a tad over 50 at 6k. If you do NOT get the rpm's up to 6k it will probably not perform well. Have them check your linkage so you are getting WFO and raise that engine up a couple inches. Suzukis do NOT like to be run low.
96Justice	posted 08-19-2009 07:54 PM ET (US) http://s755.photobucket.com/albums/xx194/pjhenderson/ I am pretty much at a loss with this boat. I attached a link to some pictures I took of the transom. From my experience everything looks OK. The prop is a Solas Lexor 15x21 stainless. This boat is a pig right now. For a 19 foot boat with a 225 to only hit 43 mph and barely pull a skier out of the water, I have serious issues. Is my next step is to start moving the mounting of the engine around because I can't believe I need to drop the prop pitch on a boat this size. Thanks.
R T M	posted 08-19-2009 08:21 PM ET (US) Did you re power with a new or used Suzuki? Is the engine carbureted or FI? rich/Binkie
96Justice	posted 08-19-2009 08:42 PM ET (US) It is a new DF225. Fuel Injected. 4 stroke.
Tohsgib	posted 08-20-2009 11:03 AM ET (US) Is the linkage adjusted correctly?
phatwhaler	posted 08-20-2009 01:36 PM ET (US) A DF225 is probably not the best choice of engines for that boat. That particular hull is sensitive to weight in the back of the boat, as all short wide boats are, and will porpoise pretty bad with a 600lb motor back there. I see 49mph on my 1996 19 Outrage with a 1996 200 Merc turning a 19 pitch prop. 19Justice should be doing about the same considering the commerical layup and 150 extra pounds of motor. I figure my boat weighs around 3700 lbs with me in the boat and 1/2 fuel. I would trade the 225 for a 175.
Tohsgib	posted 08-21-2009 10:51 AM ET (US) I doubt 150lbs would throw him off 7mph.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-21-2009 11:16 AM ET (US) I agree with Nick. Something else is at play here than just the motor's weight. The weight difference between the 19' Outrage III and the 19' Justice is also quite small, only 135 pounds. The 19' Justice weighs 2335 pounds vs. 2200 pounds for the 19' Outrage. The current motor mounting height looks OK. While it might go up another hole that will not account for the profound loss of performance either. I think you need to start looking at the motor and how it is running. The propeller you have is not that far off the mark though you might experiment with a better prop in a lower pitch as well.
Peter	posted 08-21-2009 01:13 PM ET (US) Simple thing: check to make sure all the sparkplug leads are securely fit to the sparkplugs. Perhaps one plug is not firing.
hagerg	posted 08-21-2009 07:54 PM ET (US) Make sure you have good fuel. I ended up draining my tank completely and starting over. Cars will run ok on questionable gas, my outboard didn't. Not sure that adding good gas to bad cuts it. Others here can probably answer that better. My issue was the motor (carbs needed rebuilt)