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  Grady White with Yamaha F225

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Author Topic:   Grady White with Yamaha F225
SC Joe posted 09-09-2009 09:17 AM ET (US)   Profile for SC Joe   Send Email to SC Joe  
My Grady White 205 Tournament had a 225 HP 4 Stroke Yamaha, and usually got around 3 mpg, with a fuel usage of around 17 gal/hr at WOT and approx 43 mph. Hull weight without the engine is advertised to be 2810#.

I was just wondering how the [Yamaha F225] compared [to an E-TEC 225-HP] if [completely different] hulls were used in a comparison] were a similar weight.

Peter posted 09-09-2009 10:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
The performance of the F225 has been compared directly to the E-TEC 225 as a twin on the same boat. It didn't do very well.

If you do a search on CW you will also find a comparison of the F225 and the old fashion Yamaha 225 Ox66 on a Pursuit 2470 Walkaround. The F225 didn't do too well there either.

SC Joe posted 09-09-2009 01:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
quote:
The performance of the F225 has been compared directly to the E-TEC 225 as a twin on the same boat. It didn't do very well.

If you do a search on CW you will also find a comparison of the F225 and the old fashion Yamaha 225 Ox66 on a Pursuit 2470 Walkaround. The F225 didn't do too well there either.


lol..of course not.

Peter posted 09-09-2009 01:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Of course not... because the F225 is really an F208 wearing an F225 badge.
SC Joe posted 09-09-2009 02:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
quote:
Of course not... because the F225 is really an F208 wearing an F225 badge.

Where does that come from?

Is the E-TEC 225 really an E-TEC 208 as well?

Buckda posted 09-09-2009 02:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Only if the OptiMax 225 is actually an OptiMax 225.

If the OptiMax 225 is actually an OptiMax 250, then the E-TEC 225 is an E-TEC 225.

Peter - you're on a slippery slope that has already been slid down by another member here. Turn back....Turn back.

Peter posted 09-09-2009 03:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Pretty common knowledge that the F225 is an overrated outboard with about 208 HP at the prop. One doesn't even have to be an E-TEC fan or detractor to know that.

Comparing the MPG obtained on a 20' Grady White hull to the MPG obtained on a 22 Revenge with a Whaler Drive with an overall length of 24 feet is about as apples to oranges as one can get. And then comparing different motors on top of that, I don't understand the point of doing that exercise.

SC Joe posted 09-09-2009 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
"common knowledge"..hmmm

Where does it come from then? There must be a reasonable reference for this common knowledge.

SC Joe posted 09-09-2009 03:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
quote:
Comparing the MPG obtained on a 20' Grady White hull to the MPG obtained on a 22 Revenge with a Whaler Drive with an overall length of 24 feet is about as apples to oranges as one can get. And then comparing different motors on top of that, I don't understand the point of doing that exercise.

Maybe not so much. According to this http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/performancePrediction.html , none of the Revenge hulls weigh as much as the Grady, and being that it is approximately 2 feet longer, I would suspect it get better mileage than the Grady given the same engine. I'll admit however that its all sup positional.

Peter posted 09-09-2009 04:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Joe -- Boats of equal weight don't necessarily perform the same. That's because they have different hull shapes and the different hull shapes have different Crouch hull factor. Of course you already know all of that.

Regarding the common knowledge of the low output of the F225, the EPA emissions data is one place you can find it.

Back in 2002, before EPA data on the F225 was available, I made a post on CW that compared the Yamaha 225 Ox66 to the then fairly newly introduced F225 on a Pursuit 2470 WalkAround. My recollection is that the data came from Pursuit and Pursuit was locked in with Yamaha at the time. The 225 Ox66 was able to push the Pursuit to about 45 MPH while the F225 was only able to push the Pursuit to about 40 MPH as I recall. Well, assuming that the boats weighed the same and that the hull shapes are the same (a fair assumption unlike the case of a Revenge 22 WD and a 20 foot Grady White) one can figure out the output of the F225 under the additional assumption that the Ox66 produced 225 HP which it does, using the following:

HP2=(Speed2/Speed1)^0.5 x HP1

HP2=(40/45)^0.5 x 225

HP2= 212

So in that Pursuit example, the F225 was only producing 212 HP. Back then, the F225 was a 2-star rated outboard not the 3-star rated outboard they sell today.

Now to be fair, the motors were not tested on the identical boat but it is interesting that this data aligns well with the EPA data and the common knowledge that the F225 is an underachiever.

SC Joe posted 09-09-2009 05:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for SC Joe  Send Email to SC Joe     
quote:
Now to be fair, the motors were not tested on the identical boat..

I'd answer that with:


quote:
Boats of equal weight don't necessarily perform the same. That's because they have different hull shapes and the different hull shapes have different Crouch hull factor. Of course you already know all of that.

As to:

quote:
egarding the common knowledge of the low output of the F225, the EPA emissions data is one place you can find it.

Please provide that link. I could neither find it, nor did I make the rather subjective premise to that statement being "common knowledge".

jimh posted 09-11-2009 09:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Separated from another discussion.]
Peter posted 09-11-2009 10:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Now that this has been extracted from the other discussion ... Joe, as I previously mentioned, you can find the supporting data in the USEPA's emissions certification data files for marine spark ignition motors. While I'm sure you have good internet search skills and would be able to find this in a matter of minutes, for your convenience here is a link to the USEPA page where the data files have been made public ==> www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm#marinesi . Open one up, do a text search for F225 and look at the Max Power column for that row, convert the kW to HP and see what that tells you.

dnh posted 09-15-2009 10:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for dnh  Send Email to dnh     
I have a Yahama F250 on a 1995 Outrage 21. My boat will hit 54MPH WOT.

My friend has a Yamaha F225 on a 1996 Outrage 21. His boat runs 37MPH WOT.

Obviously something is completely wrong with his set up. He does have bottom paint and I do not. But his boat ran 51MPH with a Yamaha 2 stroke 225 on it.

I don't know but something does seem weird about the F225.

jimh posted 09-16-2009 09:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
In Yamaha's retail pricing, the F250 is only marginally more expensive than the F225. The difference is really not very significant considering the overall expense. It seemed to me that Yamaha was more or less telling customers they ought to buy the F250 in preference to the F225.
kglinz posted 09-16-2009 01:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for kglinz  Send Email to kglinz     
I know that there a a lot of Clowns on this site that like to "motormouth" about things that they have little or no real experience or knowledge about, but I removed my 225 Optimax and installed F225s. There is no difference in top end at all. Acceleration is a little slower, but I almost never "drag race". You can make numbers ads prove almost anything.
weekendwarrior posted 09-16-2009 01:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for weekendwarrior  Send Email to weekendwarrior     
In all this talk about comparisons, I have never seen any prop data mentioned, and for me this completely kills the validity of the comparison. It is very easy to over or under prop the motor that you want to look bad. Using the same prop on both motors does not magically make it a fair comparison, both need to be proprd optimally for that specific motor.

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