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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 22 Takes Water Over Stern

Peabody posted 08-23-2010 04:33 PM ET (US)
I have a 1987 OUTRAGE 22 with the small stern splash well and a Mercury 225-HP OptiMax. I used to have a Yamaha 225-HP motor that was maybe 100-lbs lighter than the Mercuruy OptiMax. What do you think about four guys walking to the stern of the boat and water coming up over the stern? Do you think that I might be starting to have floation problems? Could my boat be water logged?
Jeff posted 08-23-2010 05:19 PM ET (US)
Is the boat standing still in flat calm water, or in rolling seas when with is happening? How large is the fuel tank, 77 or 129 Gallons? How much fuel is on the boat? What else is in the stern of the boat? Batteries? How large are the four guys? What other options is the boat equipped with to help assess the weight of the hull?
Jeff posted 08-23-2010 05:25 PM ET (US)
This thread may be a good read for you as well.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018733.html
jimh posted 08-23-2010 10:59 PM ET (US)
The easiest cure to stop water from coming over the stern of the OUTRAGE 22 is to tell the four guys to not all go to the stern at once.
Jeff posted 08-24-2010 12:21 AM ET (US)
That may be easier said than done Jim. When we Salmon fish our 22 Guardian we have 4 aboard and all 3 who are not driving are at the stern typically rigging gear and setting down riggers, dipsy divers and rods. So, I can see how 3 adults can quickly gather at the stern of a 22 Outrage causing water to come over the stern. Throw in 3-4 foot following seas while trolling and the deck would be a wash in a hurry.
I will post video tomorrow I shot over the weekend of this very situation aboard our Guardian. Thankfully we have the optional Commercial Products Division (CPD) optional full width splash gate across the transom helping to hold back the water from entering the cockpit.
Peabody posted 08-24-2010 02:12 AM ET (US)
I have the 77 gal fuel tank. It was 3/4 full of fuel, 3 batteries in the console and in calm water. In all the years that I have had this boat I don't remember water coming over the transon so easily. Thats why I was thinking that I might have flotation problems. Could it be that water has saturated the foam?? thanks guys.
Buckda posted 08-24-2010 08:45 AM ET (US)
The only way we can tell you that is if you have weighed the boat before and do it again so we can compare weights, minus any additional gear you've added.
I would say that it is unlikely, unless your through-hulls are compromised, or there is some other OBVIOUS problem.
There's no way it gained LOTS of weight - even with an open through-hull - in a very short amount of time. The foam doesn't absorb water like a sponge, it takes time.
Dave
Jeff posted 08-24-2010 09:50 AM ET (US)
I would agree with Dave about the unlikeliness of the boat suddenly taking on enough water to drastically change the trim of the vessel.
What is the static trim of the vessel while at rest without people aboard? How far up the transom does the waterline fall from of outer chines at the back edge of the hull? Do you have any images of this?
My old 22 Outrage with 3/4 fuel would sit at rest with the water line falling about an inch up from the outside chines.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ GIDOCKBACK.jpg?t=1282657682
Plotman posted 08-24-2010 10:49 AM ET (US)
There is a reason they scrapped the hull liner mold in 1989 and went to a full width splash well.
Water comes on over the corners and right on to the deck with that design, very easily. It is highly unlikely that your boat has floatation problems.
I think your best bet bet is going to be to fabricate and install some kind of auxiliary splash dam. Really, you just need to protect the corners of the transom - the part where there is no splash well.
I'd start off with something completely non-destructive - scribe a piece of plywood for each side and hold it in place with something like 4200. Once you have something you like, you can fabricate and attach something more permanent.
Jeff posted 08-24-2010 01:03 PM ET (US)
Here are the video's of two guys in the stern of our 22 Guardian rigging gear in a following sea. Yes, we have twin V6's on the stern which does make it sit a bit low in the stern. We luckily have the full width splash well keeping the sea water out of the cockpit. The seas where a solid 3' roll from our stern.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Dads%2022/ Fishing%208-2010/?action=view¤t=MOV004.mp4
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Dads%2022/ Fishing%208-2010/?action=view¤t=MOV008.mp4
Buckda posted 08-24-2010 01:35 PM ET (US)
Jeff -
Did you fish your old 22 a lot? Wondering if you had similar water on the deck with a single 235 on the back.
That's a LOT of water above the transom notch. If a standard hull, you'd have at least two or three inches on the deck back there - and potentially "float away" your sump covers.
Jeff posted 08-24-2010 01:54 PM ET (US)
Dave--I never Salmon fished and trolled with my old Outrage 22 with the single 235. I did drift fishing on Lake St Clair and with a confused 1'-2' slop on that lake I would have water come over the transom if I was standing in the stern fishing. Enough to completely fill the splash well every 30 - 45 seconds.
Like I said those videos show us at a 2.5 mph troll with 3' rollers coming straight at us from the stern. When he trolled into the rollers there was not as much water coming in but, we still saw water over the notch. That splash gate is worth it's weight in gold for us.
Moby Dick posted 08-24-2010 06:59 PM ET (US)
[Four] people standing in the [stern] is a lot of weight, especially with a heavy [Mercury OptiMax outboard motor]. I'm still suprised by some of the comments on taking water over the stern of OUTRAGE 22 boats. My Montauk doesn't take water over the back with two guys rigging lines and the third driving. All three [each weigh] over 200-lbs. A Montauk will take it over the bow if enough weight is up front.
DeeVee posted 08-24-2010 10:44 PM ET (US)
I have a 1989 Outrage 22. With the full width splash well, my deck stays pretty dry with 3 men behind the leaning post and one at the helm.
I use the boat with both drain plugs out. With 3 people aft, water can over flow the bulkhead between the drain sumps and the aft below deck "baitwell". This water is pumped out when the auto switch activates the bilge pump. At no time is water on deck.
If backing into wind waves while halibut fishing in 600 to 700 feet of water, things can be pretty sloppy, so it helps even more to have the plugs out. I don't have a huge bilge pump in the aft baitwell. With the drain sump plugs out, the water level equalizes very quickly, and the bilge pump handles the rest.
Doug Vazquez
L H G posted 08-25-2010 06:20 PM ET (US)
The big Mercury Optimax is the lightest of the 3.0+ liter 2-stroke outboards. It is lighter than the Yamaha 225HP 3.1 liter engines, carbed or otherwise. Unless you had one of those old 2.6 liter 225's, there would not be a 100# difference in weight. The 22 should be able to handle a 500# engine anyway.
If I had an old cut transom 22, the first thing I would do is have the transom professional built up to 30". That was an option for years on the commercial models, and now I think is the only way they build them. The WD models introduced in 1987 also solved this problem. Now we know why they did either option! Somewhere there must be a design flaw in the 22' hull.
I have always been amazed that an 18 Outrage with the same weight on the 25" transom (such as twin 115's) does not have this problem. I fished mine for several years in both Lake Michigan and the Atlantic, and never got wet feet in large following seas!
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2018/?action=view& current=IMG_0453.jpg
Peabody posted 08-25-2010 10:29 PM ET (US)
L H G, I had a 1987 yamaha 225 excel that was a lot lighter than the motors of today. It was such a gas guzzler that it would burn almost twice the fuel that my Optimax burns. I did notice the weight of the Optimax right away. Anyway, thanks again for all the replies. Continuous wave is a great site !!!

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 22 Takes Water Over Stern
Peabody	posted 08-23-2010 04:33 PM ET (US) I have a 1987 OUTRAGE 22 with the small stern splash well and a Mercury 225-HP OptiMax. I used to have a Yamaha 225-HP motor that was maybe 100-lbs lighter than the Mercuruy OptiMax. What do you think about four guys walking to the stern of the boat and water coming up over the stern? Do you think that I might be starting to have floation problems? Could my boat be water logged?
Jeff	posted 08-23-2010 05:19 PM ET (US) Is the boat standing still in flat calm water, or in rolling seas when with is happening? How large is the fuel tank, 77 or 129 Gallons? How much fuel is on the boat? What else is in the stern of the boat? Batteries? How large are the four guys? What other options is the boat equipped with to help assess the weight of the hull?
Jeff	posted 08-23-2010 05:25 PM ET (US) This thread may be a good read for you as well. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/018733.html
jimh	posted 08-23-2010 10:59 PM ET (US) The easiest cure to stop water from coming over the stern of the OUTRAGE 22 is to tell the four guys to not all go to the stern at once.
Jeff	posted 08-24-2010 12:21 AM ET (US) That may be easier said than done Jim. When we Salmon fish our 22 Guardian we have 4 aboard and all 3 who are not driving are at the stern typically rigging gear and setting down riggers, dipsy divers and rods. So, I can see how 3 adults can quickly gather at the stern of a 22 Outrage causing water to come over the stern. Throw in 3-4 foot following seas while trolling and the deck would be a wash in a hurry. I will post video tomorrow I shot over the weekend of this very situation aboard our Guardian. Thankfully we have the optional Commercial Products Division (CPD) optional full width splash gate across the transom helping to hold back the water from entering the cockpit.
Peabody	posted 08-24-2010 02:12 AM ET (US) I have the 77 gal fuel tank. It was 3/4 full of fuel, 3 batteries in the console and in calm water. In all the years that I have had this boat I don't remember water coming over the transon so easily. Thats why I was thinking that I might have flotation problems. Could it be that water has saturated the foam?? thanks guys.
Buckda	posted 08-24-2010 08:45 AM ET (US) The only way we can tell you that is if you have weighed the boat before and do it again so we can compare weights, minus any additional gear you've added. I would say that it is unlikely, unless your through-hulls are compromised, or there is some other OBVIOUS problem. There's no way it gained LOTS of weight - even with an open through-hull - in a very short amount of time. The foam doesn't absorb water like a sponge, it takes time. Dave
Jeff	posted 08-24-2010 09:50 AM ET (US) I would agree with Dave about the unlikeliness of the boat suddenly taking on enough water to drastically change the trim of the vessel. What is the static trim of the vessel while at rest without people aboard? How far up the transom does the waterline fall from of outer chines at the back edge of the hull? Do you have any images of this? My old 22 Outrage with 3/4 fuel would sit at rest with the water line falling about an inch up from the outside chines. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ GIDOCKBACK.jpg?t=1282657682
Plotman	posted 08-24-2010 10:49 AM ET (US) There is a reason they scrapped the hull liner mold in 1989 and went to a full width splash well. Water comes on over the corners and right on to the deck with that design, very easily. It is highly unlikely that your boat has floatation problems. I think your best bet bet is going to be to fabricate and install some kind of auxiliary splash dam. Really, you just need to protect the corners of the transom - the part where there is no splash well. I'd start off with something completely non-destructive - scribe a piece of plywood for each side and hold it in place with something like 4200. Once you have something you like, you can fabricate and attach something more permanent.
Jeff	posted 08-24-2010 01:03 PM ET (US) Here are the video's of two guys in the stern of our 22 Guardian rigging gear in a following sea. Yes, we have twin V6's on the stern which does make it sit a bit low in the stern. We luckily have the full width splash well keeping the sea water out of the cockpit. The seas where a solid 3' roll from our stern. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Dads%2022/ Fishing%208-2010/?action=view¤t=MOV004.mp4 http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Dads%2022/ Fishing%208-2010/?action=view¤t=MOV008.mp4
Buckda	posted 08-24-2010 01:35 PM ET (US) Jeff - Did you fish your old 22 a lot? Wondering if you had similar water on the deck with a single 235 on the back. That's a LOT of water above the transom notch. If a standard hull, you'd have at least two or three inches on the deck back there - and potentially "float away" your sump covers.
Jeff	posted 08-24-2010 01:54 PM ET (US) Dave--I never Salmon fished and trolled with my old Outrage 22 with the single 235. I did drift fishing on Lake St Clair and with a confused 1'-2' slop on that lake I would have water come over the transom if I was standing in the stern fishing. Enough to completely fill the splash well every 30 - 45 seconds. Like I said those videos show us at a 2.5 mph troll with 3' rollers coming straight at us from the stern. When he trolled into the rollers there was not as much water coming in but, we still saw water over the notch. That splash gate is worth it's weight in gold for us.
Moby Dick	posted 08-24-2010 06:59 PM ET (US) [Four] people standing in the [stern] is a lot of weight, especially with a heavy [Mercury OptiMax outboard motor]. I'm still suprised by some of the comments on taking water over the stern of OUTRAGE 22 boats. My Montauk doesn't take water over the back with two guys rigging lines and the third driving. All three [each weigh] over 200-lbs. A Montauk will take it over the bow if enough weight is up front.
DeeVee	posted 08-24-2010 10:44 PM ET (US) I have a 1989 Outrage 22. With the full width splash well, my deck stays pretty dry with 3 men behind the leaning post and one at the helm. I use the boat with both drain plugs out. With 3 people aft, water can over flow the bulkhead between the drain sumps and the aft below deck "baitwell". This water is pumped out when the auto switch activates the bilge pump. At no time is water on deck. If backing into wind waves while halibut fishing in 600 to 700 feet of water, things can be pretty sloppy, so it helps even more to have the plugs out. I don't have a huge bilge pump in the aft baitwell. With the drain sump plugs out, the water level equalizes very quickly, and the bilge pump handles the rest. Doug Vazquez
L H G	posted 08-25-2010 06:20 PM ET (US) The big Mercury Optimax is the lightest of the 3.0+ liter 2-stroke outboards. It is lighter than the Yamaha 225HP 3.1 liter engines, carbed or otherwise. Unless you had one of those old 2.6 liter 225's, there would not be a 100# difference in weight. The 22 should be able to handle a 500# engine anyway. If I had an old cut transom 22, the first thing I would do is have the transom professional built up to 30". That was an option for years on the commercial models, and now I think is the only way they build them. The WD models introduced in 1987 also solved this problem. Now we know why they did either option! Somewhere there must be a design flaw in the 22' hull. I have always been amazed that an 18 Outrage with the same weight on the 25" transom (such as twin 115's) does not have this problem. I fished mine for several years in both Lake Michigan and the Atlantic, and never got wet feet in large following seas! http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2018/?action=view& current=IMG_0453.jpg
Peabody	posted 08-25-2010 10:29 PM ET (US) L H G, I had a 1987 yamaha 225 excel that was a lot lighter than the motors of today. It was such a gas guzzler that it would burn almost twice the fuel that my Optimax burns. I did notice the weight of the Optimax right away. Anyway, thanks again for all the replies. Continuous wave is a great site !!!