Yamaha V-MAX SHO - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
  Yamaha V-MAX SHO

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Yamaha V-MAX SHO

Jorgen posted 11-29-2010 04:48 PM ET (US)
Who has any experiance with the new VMAX SHO, i am considering a re-power and like some real references, not from the bass boat fishing pro's you see on commercial ads on youtube.....

tedious posted 11-29-2010 08:00 PM ET (US)
For what boat? Not a lot of classic Whalers use a 200, 225, or 250 with a 20 inch shaft.
Tim
Jorgen posted 11-30-2010 07:46 AM ET (US)
Thanks Tim,
Are the 25'' shafts still not availeble in US??
I want to re-power our 19 Outrage II from an Optimax 200 (with low hours 270+-)to the SHO 250.
Surprised if not availeble yet....
tedious posted 11-30-2010 07:53 AM ET (US)
No, only 20" shafts here - the Vmax SHO motors appear to be set up only for bass boats. The longer shafts are available in the "V6 Offshore" models which look to be very similar, except for the gearcase. The only other difference I noticed is that the offshore model has a more powerful alternator.
Tim
Peter posted 11-30-2010 07:56 AM ET (US)
The Offshore motors weigh in at 562 lbs, almost 60 lbs more than the SHOs. That's alot of weight to be putting on the transom of an Outrage 19 II.
Jorgen posted 11-30-2010 08:01 AM ET (US)
Just called our local dealer,.....he stated that the Yamaha SHO will not be imported at all to Europe !!
It seems that they will only make the 20'' shafts and is entirely focussed on Bass boat market.
How big is this Market segment in US, must be huge to develop a new engine for.....
Peter posted 11-30-2010 11:29 AM ET (US)
It's a pretty big market. The U.S. is a big country and there are lots of lakes where these fast bass boats are used. The freshwater boat market may be bigger than the saltwater/offshore market.
Jorgen posted 11-30-2010 11:31 AM ET (US)
It's a shame they dont inmtend to make the 25 inch shaft. I would have bought it....and loved it.
tedious posted 11-30-2010 02:33 PM ET (US)
Jorgen, how much does your current Optimax weigh? From Mercury's website, the Optimax 200 with a 20 inch shaft weighs exactly the same (505 pounds) as the Vmax SHOs. So your existing Optimax, with the 25 inch shaft, may weigh the same as the V6 Offshore.
I have a hard time getting all riled up about 57 pounds on a boat with a dry weight of 1900 pounds - by the time you get an anchor in the bow locker, you won't even notice. And Jorgen, the V6 Offshore is also available as a 300(!) at that same weight of 562 pounds.
Tim
seahorse posted 11-30-2010 03:32 PM ET (US)

There is another difference between the SHO and the Offshore versions. The SHO models have traditional throttle and shift control cables.
The new offshore models are only made for Yamaha's proprietary and more expensive digital "fly-by-wire" controls, which adds greatly to the rigging expenses.
There is no 200hp model in the offshore series and no 300hp model in the SHO versions.
Peter posted 11-30-2010 06:06 PM ET (US)
"I have a hard time getting all riled up about 57 pounds on a boat with a dry weight of 1900 pounds - by the time you get an anchor in the bow locker, you won't even notice."
Jorgen's Outrage 19 II is built on the Outrage 18 hull with the difference that it had a third liner adding several hundred pounds to the Outrage 18 hull. At the time it was designed it still has a 150 HP maximum rating. A 150 HP at the time weighed about 375 lbs. With the Optimax 200, he's already about 100 to 125 lbs over what the designers expected on the transom. The new Offshore would put it close to 200 lbs over expected weight on the transom. That is the equivalent of carrying around an extra person in one of the molded in stern seats all the time.
Unless you've seen one of these new motors in person, its hard to appreciate just how physically big they are. They are BIG. They make the prior Yamaha V6 4-strokes look small. I think Jorgen is doing the right thing by carefully considering weight.

Jorgen posted 11-30-2010 06:38 PM ET (US)
That would be okay since my wife sits there too,.... ;-)

So, what would you reccomend me to do, upgrade with a new 250 Optimax with dts or take the Yamaha F300 offshore?
Thanks for your input.
tedious posted 12-01-2010 08:19 AM ET (US)
Peter, Jorgen has not expressed any concerns about weight - only you have.
Do you know the weight of his current Optimax? As previously posted, the Optimax with the 20" shaft weighs 505 pounds, exactly the same as the SHO. Since Jorgen's motor has a 25" shaft, logic would suggest it weighs more than that, perhaps about the same as the Offshores - I don't know.
I do agree the 4.2L Offshore V6s are visually larger than the older 3.3s, but they actually weigh less.
Jorgen, as far as I can tell, your hull is rated for 150. I'm concerned about your current 200 on there - I think putting a 250 or 300 on is absolutely nuts. But it's your boat, your life.
Tim
dgoodhue posted 12-01-2010 09:07 AM ET (US)
How fast is that Outrage with 200hp?
Jorgen posted 12-01-2010 02:04 PM ET (US)
The 19 Outrage II with the 200 Optimax reaches 86 KM per hour on the GPS, I think this is about 52 or 54 M/ph .
We have a high vife 18 pitch on ther and enging is mounted on 4th hole from top. Rpm is 5700 on the meter.
I do not worry about the weight, as you say, it is similar to the SHO. The H rating is 150 but here it is no issue for insurance. The boat can handle this very well, as long as you act sensible and not take of full trottle each time, but let the boat get on plane first in nutral trim position.
So yhe F300 is availeble as a offshore version, I will cheeck it here at my dealer if he knows the offshore version.
What would such motor cost in the US and are they availeble as demo over years for example 2009??
Jorgen posted 12-01-2010 02:06 PM ET (US)
Made a typing error, forget the 18 pitch.
The 19 Outrage II with the 200 Optimax reaches 86 KM per hour on the GPS, I think this is about 52 or 54 M/ph .
We have a high five 19 pitch on ther and enging is mounted on 4th hole from top. Rpm is 5700 on the meter.
I do not worry about the weight, as you say, it is similar to the SHO. The H rating is 150 but here it is no issue for insurance. The boat can handle this very well, as long as you act sensible and not take of full trottle each time, but let the boat get on plane first in nutral trim position.
So yhe F300 is availeble as a offshore version, I will cheeck it here at my dealer if he knows the offshore version.
What would such motor cost in the US and are they availeble as demo over years for example 2009??
tedious posted 12-01-2010 03:05 PM ET (US)
Jorgen, a local dealer has the F300 for $23,626, and I believe you'll also need completely new controls, which are expensive - possibly around $4000 additional. For reference, the F250 is $22,622 at the same dealer and the F225 is $21,611.
The 4.2L motors were new for 2010, so there won't be any leftovers. The older 3.3L motors are still available, and should be quite a bit cheaper, but the are heavier and only go up to 250.
Tim
Jorgen posted 12-01-2010 04:59 PM ET (US)
Thanks for your input Tim,
Prices are very high for these Yammies, when i import these from us, than I pay transport, 2 percent inport duty and over the sum 10 percent VAT.
Makes no sence to buy them in the US, so I will shop here.
Thanks again.
Tohsgib posted 12-02-2010 11:23 AM ET (US)
Those are list prices. You can get a new 300 for roughly $16k.
tedious posted 12-03-2010 11:54 AM ET (US)
The price I quoted is actually not list, but from a local dealer. Where did you find the F300 for $16K? At that price I might buy a few to resell and make some money.
Tim
Owtrayj25 posted 12-06-2010 10:34 AM ET (US)

quote:
Those are list prices. You can get a new 300 for roughly $16k.
A new 4.2L F300 for $16K....ahh, I don't think so. MSRP is $25,500. I don't see Yamaha coming off their Retail almost $10K. I recently shopped these, and they are well above $20K at negotiated discount, not including rigging, prop, or installation.
Owtrayj25 posted 12-06-2010 10:50 AM ET (US)
Actually, list is a touch under $25K; counter rotation is $25,500. But still....
L H G posted 12-06-2010 04:17 PM ET (US)
As a comparison, a 300 Verado is 18K.
Jorgen posted 12-06-2010 06:01 PM ET (US)
Thanks Larry,
I like the verado, but the weight....I think its too much on a 19 Outrage II.
What do you think?
L H G posted 12-06-2010 06:37 PM ET (US)
I was not recommending a 300 Verado. A 4 cylinder Verado 200 would be fine, but not a six cylinder model. I have 610 pounds of engine on my 18, set back 10" and two batteries in the stern. A 200 Verado is only 13.3K and you only need a $500 DTS control to make the installation.
But it seems like your 200 Optimax is barely broken in? Why trade?
Peter posted 12-06-2010 07:47 PM ET (US)
A pair, or two, of Bose noise cancelling headphones would be a far cheaper solution to the Optimax noise pollution problem than a Verado 200.
Jorgen posted 12-07-2010 07:17 AM ET (US)
The Optimax is really like new, BUT,.....when I bought this 19 Outrage with the Optimax, I went to a dealer to get the hours checked and possible alarms since this model is a pre-smartcraft version.
It was impossible to read the software in the Optimax. I want a motor which can be checked on a computer in case you need diagnostics. Thats all, the motor runs fine.
Owtrayj25 posted 12-07-2010 04:31 PM ET (US)
Who is selling 300 HP New Verados for $18K? 2009 list is $28,500 for 25" shaft. Is mercury really coming off their retail by over $10 grand?
L H G posted 12-07-2010 06:26 PM ET (US)
Since you asked, here is a complete listing on Verado pricing. I don't know if they ship in-line 6 Verados, but they will ship any other engine for around $150, and no sales tax.
[Deleted Larry's favorite out-of-the-way back-woods Kentucky or Tennessee Mercury motor outlet re-seller. Contact Larry via email to get his referrals to this dealer.]
Peter posted 12-07-2010 06:47 PM ET (US)
"Who is selling 300 HP New Verados for $18K? 2009 list is $28,500 for 25" shaft. Is mercury really coming off their retail by over $10 grand?"
They probably are. At 650 lbs, no NMEA 2000 compatibility, several thousand $ more to be laid out for required power steering and DTS, more complication and a limited number of Verado certified service centers, I bet they are a hard motor to sell loose.
jimh posted 12-07-2010 10:47 PM ET (US)
How did this discussion about Yamaha V-MAX SHO motors end up with Larry posting another hyperlink to some Tennessee or Kentucky re-sale shop that specializes in "non-current, blemished, Dealer Buy-out" Mercury motors. This happens so often I feel like CONTINUOUSWAVE is the new sales arm of this guy's dealership.
And in this case the buyer is in Europe, right? How many of these hard-to-sell Verado motors do you think these characters have exported to Europe? And isn't that a violation of their terms of sales with Mercury. Doesn't Mercury have European dealers that they are supposed to be "protecting"?
Jorgen posted 12-08-2010 07:32 AM ET (US)
Jim,
I am an international business man and can buy any where I like.
If this means that I have to buy an old skiff for 300 dollars to mount a new Verado on and than get it exported from US to Europe than I just do that, and pay the local tax, no problem....
jimh posted 12-08-2010 08:54 AM ET (US)
Jorgen--You better ring those good old boys up right away and get that deal going. Buying a loose Verado at a $10,000 discount is a good deal. I hope there are not too many other Europeans already ahead of you in the line.
Peter posted 12-08-2010 09:01 AM ET (US)
Being only 250 lbs over the designer's expected weight of a single outboard on the transom, I think a 650 lb Verado 300 ought to be a perfect fit for the transom of an Outrage 19 II hull. ;)
L H G posted 12-08-2010 04:44 PM ET (US)
The anti-Mercury Evinrude crowd is way too sensitive, and this excitement causes them not to read well, nor understand.
I only joined in to back up Nick's claim that a 300HP outboard should cost around 16K bought right. Nothing else, and for no other reason, since I'm not interested in Yamahas at all, nor conversations about powering a boat with Yamahas. So I mentioned that even a super premium 300 Verado is 18K to back up Nick's comment. A 300XS Optimax, incidentally, is also 16K.
Did I ever recommend a 300 Verado, or 300 HP "anything" to Jorgen. NO. Please re-read.
As for [the] link, once again, ONLY published for the sake of ...verify[ing] the Verado pricing I had indicated. [Long personal endorsement of the dealer redacted. Remember, the only reason to mention this was to proffer the price.--jimh]
Peter posted 12-08-2010 06:11 PM ET (US)
Does "bought right" mean buying a non-current, blemished or dealer buy out product? The meta data for Larry's favorite Internet Verado pricing web page seems to suggest that is what is being offered. If so, it would be hard to buy a non-current Yamaha F300 Offshore given its a new product.
Compared to the Verado 300, on a $ per pound basis the Yamaha F300 does not look like a bargain.
Jorgen posted 12-08-2010 08:04 PM ET (US)
Who said that I want a Verado? The post was about the Yamaha V-max, a true Japanese high-tech product that I would prefer.....
;-)
jimh posted 12-08-2010 10:44 PM ET (US)
Yes, Jorgen, I am confused, too. Here was a discussion specifically talking about a Yamaha motor, and next thing you know we are getting hyperlinks and long personal testimonials about a Mercury dealer, located 4,000-miles away who undersells Mercury motors below even the most notorious high-volume discount sellers in the U.S.
Larry--In 17 years of publishing this website I have never told anyone they ought to go buy a motor at a particular dealer. My recommendation is to buy an outboard motor from a local authorized dealer with whom you feel you you can have a long-term relationship, and who has a good service department, with trained and certified technicians.
towboater posted 12-15-2010 01:24 AM ET (US)
Jim
I would support any effort you take to expand on your advise that DEALER reputation and location is probably the most important aspect to consider when buying a new engine.

Jorgen, all brands of high performance engines that come with 5 year warrantees will need constant monitoring, adjusting. They do not plug and play for 5 years.
Talk to your potential service people about routine service scheduling. Are they first come first served or will purchasing a new engine from them give you priority service? GET IT IT WRITING. Last thing you want to do is sit on the beach waiting for service on a $18k engine July 1st because you will cross a time threshold that has high risk to void your warrantee on July 2. I think you get the point...Dealer relationship, reputation and location is very important.
Tohsgib posted 12-15-2010 02:09 PM ET (US)
MSRP on outboards is a joke and always has been. When I bought my 1994 Johnson 225 it listed for over $17k and I paid about $9k for it. Yes if you shop(which many on this site don't) you can find a bare engine 300hp for about $13k, if you insist on Yamaha I added $3k padding for ya.
Tohsgib posted 12-15-2010 02:14 PM ET (US)
PS it is not uncommon to knock 50% off MSRP on outboards. My DF115 Suzuki lists for $13,345 and I paid $5995 in the crate and easily found for $7k ish. A Suzuki DF40 lists for $7260...you can buy them all day long for about $4k. If a Yamaha F300 is $25k I would guess $15k is achievable.
Peter posted 12-15-2010 05:28 PM ET (US)
Good luck with finding a new Yamaha F300 with an MSRP of nearly $25K for $15K. Seeing that you get such great deals, maybe you should hire yourself out as an outboard buyer's agent charging a reasonable finder's fee.
tedious posted 12-15-2010 08:45 PM ET (US)
Golly, them new motors is cheep. Don't want one thow cause they need constant monitoring and adjusting.
Owtrayj25 posted 12-15-2010 10:13 PM ET (US)
If someone finds a new, in the crate Yamaha 4.2L F300 for $15K, from an authorized dealer, I'll eat it.
Tohsgib posted 12-16-2010 03:28 PM ET (US)
Peter I post great deals on here for free and rarely does anyone take advantage of them...why would they pay me?
Outrayj25...give me time and start sharpening your knife.
Tohsgib posted 12-16-2010 03:38 PM ET (US)
Guys...one quick Google and boats.net has 2010 F300 for $18.9k and they are a ripoff. Like I said in my first post $16k should be easy if you shop and $15k is probably achievable. 2010 are now leftovers...wait til spring when 2012's are coming in July.
Tedious...your dealer is pretty much MSRP. Ed's has the F225 Sport 20" for $13,500.
Jorgen posted 12-16-2010 05:55 PM ET (US)
I thought you guys advised me not to take the F 300,.......
better stick with Optimax so i shop around for a 250 DTS
Peter posted 12-16-2010 07:48 PM ET (US)
The advertised price at Ed's for the 250 SHO is $15,900 which is 72 percent of the $21,870 MSRP.
The advertised price at Boats.net for the same motor is $16,622 (76 percent of MSRP).
Boat.net's advertised price for the F300 is also 76 percent of MSRP. If we applied the same discount to the F300 that Ed applies to the 250 SHO, namely 28 percent, one would expect the F300 to be advertised at $17,910. That's no where near the 15K to 16K and that does not include ANY of the rigging components (add another $2,000 for rigging components) OR rigging labor OR taxes. By the time you have a functioning F300 on the transom, your wallet will be lighter by at least $22,000 "bought right".
tedious posted 12-17-2010 08:58 AM ET (US)
Jorgen, you've been given some very good advice in this thread, and also some complete foolishness. You need to decide which is which - in the end the motor choice is up to you.
Best wishes for an enjoyable holiday season!
Tim
Jorgen posted 12-17-2010 04:14 PM ET (US)
Well, thanks to all for the very overwelming advices, I will look around to see if I find a good price on the 250 Optimax DTS here in Euroland.
Happy seasons to you all.
Peter posted 12-17-2010 05:24 PM ET (US)
A 250 Optimax DTS may be priceless. No such thing existed in the U.S. For a few years, a 225 Optimax DTS was offered but that is no longer offered.
L H G posted 12-17-2010 07:40 PM ET (US)
http://www.mercurymarine.com/precisionrigging/smartcraft/ smartcraftinaction/dts.php
Peter posted 12-18-2010 08:52 AM ET (US)
No Optimax 200 or 225 DTS models are offered in this government price list ==> dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/patrols/forms/ 2011MercuryStateMunicipalPriceList.pdf . The Optimax DTS models are the only models that do not map over from the brochure line up to the price list line up.

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Yamaha V-MAX SHO
Jorgen	posted 11-29-2010 04:48 PM ET (US) Who has any experiance with the new VMAX SHO, i am considering a re-power and like some real references, not from the bass boat fishing pro's you see on commercial ads on youtube.....
tedious	posted 11-29-2010 08:00 PM ET (US) For what boat? Not a lot of classic Whalers use a 200, 225, or 250 with a 20 inch shaft. Tim
Jorgen	posted 11-30-2010 07:46 AM ET (US) Thanks Tim, Are the 25'' shafts still not availeble in US?? I want to re-power our 19 Outrage II from an Optimax 200 (with low hours 270+-)to the SHO 250. Surprised if not availeble yet....
tedious	posted 11-30-2010 07:53 AM ET (US) No, only 20" shafts here - the Vmax SHO motors appear to be set up only for bass boats. The longer shafts are available in the "V6 Offshore" models which look to be very similar, except for the gearcase. The only other difference I noticed is that the offshore model has a more powerful alternator. Tim
Peter	posted 11-30-2010 07:56 AM ET (US) The Offshore motors weigh in at 562 lbs, almost 60 lbs more than the SHOs. That's alot of weight to be putting on the transom of an Outrage 19 II.
Jorgen	posted 11-30-2010 08:01 AM ET (US) Just called our local dealer,.....he stated that the Yamaha SHO will not be imported at all to Europe !! It seems that they will only make the 20'' shafts and is entirely focussed on Bass boat market. How big is this Market segment in US, must be huge to develop a new engine for.....
Peter	posted 11-30-2010 11:29 AM ET (US) It's a pretty big market. The U.S. is a big country and there are lots of lakes where these fast bass boats are used. The freshwater boat market may be bigger than the saltwater/offshore market.
Jorgen	posted 11-30-2010 11:31 AM ET (US) It's a shame they dont inmtend to make the 25 inch shaft. I would have bought it....and loved it.
tedious	posted 11-30-2010 02:33 PM ET (US) Jorgen, how much does your current Optimax weigh? From Mercury's website, the Optimax 200 with a 20 inch shaft weighs exactly the same (505 pounds) as the Vmax SHOs. So your existing Optimax, with the 25 inch shaft, may weigh the same as the V6 Offshore. I have a hard time getting all riled up about 57 pounds on a boat with a dry weight of 1900 pounds - by the time you get an anchor in the bow locker, you won't even notice. And Jorgen, the V6 Offshore is also available as a 300(!) at that same weight of 562 pounds. Tim
seahorse	posted 11-30-2010 03:32 PM ET (US) There is another difference between the SHO and the Offshore versions. The SHO models have traditional throttle and shift control cables. The new offshore models are only made for Yamaha's proprietary and more expensive digital "fly-by-wire" controls, which adds greatly to the rigging expenses. There is no 200hp model in the offshore series and no 300hp model in the SHO versions.
Peter	posted 11-30-2010 06:06 PM ET (US) "I have a hard time getting all riled up about 57 pounds on a boat with a dry weight of 1900 pounds - by the time you get an anchor in the bow locker, you won't even notice." Jorgen's Outrage 19 II is built on the Outrage 18 hull with the difference that it had a third liner adding several hundred pounds to the Outrage 18 hull. At the time it was designed it still has a 150 HP maximum rating. A 150 HP at the time weighed about 375 lbs. With the Optimax 200, he's already about 100 to 125 lbs over what the designers expected on the transom. The new Offshore would put it close to 200 lbs over expected weight on the transom. That is the equivalent of carrying around an extra person in one of the molded in stern seats all the time. Unless you've seen one of these new motors in person, its hard to appreciate just how physically big they are. They are BIG. They make the prior Yamaha V6 4-strokes look small. I think Jorgen is doing the right thing by carefully considering weight.
Jorgen	posted 11-30-2010 06:38 PM ET (US) That would be okay since my wife sits there too,.... ;-) So, what would you reccomend me to do, upgrade with a new 250 Optimax with dts or take the Yamaha F300 offshore? Thanks for your input.
tedious	posted 12-01-2010 08:19 AM ET (US) Peter, Jorgen has not expressed any concerns about weight - only you have. Do you know the weight of his current Optimax? As previously posted, the Optimax with the 20" shaft weighs 505 pounds, exactly the same as the SHO. Since Jorgen's motor has a 25" shaft, logic would suggest it weighs more than that, perhaps about the same as the Offshores - I don't know. I do agree the 4.2L Offshore V6s are visually larger than the older 3.3s, but they actually weigh less. Jorgen, as far as I can tell, your hull is rated for 150. I'm concerned about your current 200 on there - I think putting a 250 or 300 on is absolutely nuts. But it's your boat, your life. Tim
dgoodhue	posted 12-01-2010 09:07 AM ET (US) How fast is that Outrage with 200hp?
Jorgen	posted 12-01-2010 02:04 PM ET (US) The 19 Outrage II with the 200 Optimax reaches 86 KM per hour on the GPS, I think this is about 52 or 54 M/ph . We have a high vife 18 pitch on ther and enging is mounted on 4th hole from top. Rpm is 5700 on the meter. I do not worry about the weight, as you say, it is similar to the SHO. The H rating is 150 but here it is no issue for insurance. The boat can handle this very well, as long as you act sensible and not take of full trottle each time, but let the boat get on plane first in nutral trim position. So yhe F300 is availeble as a offshore version, I will cheeck it here at my dealer if he knows the offshore version. What would such motor cost in the US and are they availeble as demo over years for example 2009??
Jorgen	posted 12-01-2010 02:06 PM ET (US) Made a typing error, forget the 18 pitch. The 19 Outrage II with the 200 Optimax reaches 86 KM per hour on the GPS, I think this is about 52 or 54 M/ph . We have a high five 19 pitch on ther and enging is mounted on 4th hole from top. Rpm is 5700 on the meter. I do not worry about the weight, as you say, it is similar to the SHO. The H rating is 150 but here it is no issue for insurance. The boat can handle this very well, as long as you act sensible and not take of full trottle each time, but let the boat get on plane first in nutral trim position. So yhe F300 is availeble as a offshore version, I will cheeck it here at my dealer if he knows the offshore version. What would such motor cost in the US and are they availeble as demo over years for example 2009??
tedious	posted 12-01-2010 03:05 PM ET (US) Jorgen, a local dealer has the F300 for $23,626, and I believe you'll also need completely new controls, which are expensive - possibly around $4000 additional. For reference, the F250 is $22,622 at the same dealer and the F225 is $21,611. The 4.2L motors were new for 2010, so there won't be any leftovers. The older 3.3L motors are still available, and should be quite a bit cheaper, but the are heavier and only go up to 250. Tim
Jorgen	posted 12-01-2010 04:59 PM ET (US) Thanks for your input Tim, Prices are very high for these Yammies, when i import these from us, than I pay transport, 2 percent inport duty and over the sum 10 percent VAT. Makes no sence to buy them in the US, so I will shop here. Thanks again.
Tohsgib	posted 12-02-2010 11:23 AM ET (US) Those are list prices. You can get a new 300 for roughly $16k.
tedious	posted 12-03-2010 11:54 AM ET (US) The price I quoted is actually not list, but from a local dealer. Where did you find the F300 for $16K? At that price I might buy a few to resell and make some money. Tim
Owtrayj25	posted 12-06-2010 10:34 AM ET (US) quote: Those are list prices. You can get a new 300 for roughly $16k. A new 4.2L F300 for $16K....ahh, I don't think so. MSRP is $25,500. I don't see Yamaha coming off their Retail almost $10K. I recently shopped these, and they are well above $20K at negotiated discount, not including rigging, prop, or installation.
Owtrayj25	posted 12-06-2010 10:50 AM ET (US) Actually, list is a touch under $25K; counter rotation is $25,500. But still....
L H G	posted 12-06-2010 04:17 PM ET (US) As a comparison, a 300 Verado is 18K.
Jorgen	posted 12-06-2010 06:01 PM ET (US) Thanks Larry, I like the verado, but the weight....I think its too much on a 19 Outrage II. What do you think?
L H G	posted 12-06-2010 06:37 PM ET (US) I was not recommending a 300 Verado. A 4 cylinder Verado 200 would be fine, but not a six cylinder model. I have 610 pounds of engine on my 18, set back 10" and two batteries in the stern. A 200 Verado is only 13.3K and you only need a $500 DTS control to make the installation. But it seems like your 200 Optimax is barely broken in? Why trade?
Peter	posted 12-06-2010 07:47 PM ET (US) A pair, or two, of Bose noise cancelling headphones would be a far cheaper solution to the Optimax noise pollution problem than a Verado 200.
Jorgen	posted 12-07-2010 07:17 AM ET (US) The Optimax is really like new, BUT,.....when I bought this 19 Outrage with the Optimax, I went to a dealer to get the hours checked and possible alarms since this model is a pre-smartcraft version. It was impossible to read the software in the Optimax. I want a motor which can be checked on a computer in case you need diagnostics. Thats all, the motor runs fine.
Owtrayj25	posted 12-07-2010 04:31 PM ET (US) Who is selling 300 HP New Verados for $18K? 2009 list is $28,500 for 25" shaft. Is mercury really coming off their retail by over $10 grand?
L H G	posted 12-07-2010 06:26 PM ET (US) Since you asked, here is a complete listing on Verado pricing. I don't know if they ship in-line 6 Verados, but they will ship any other engine for around $150, and no sales tax. [Deleted Larry's favorite out-of-the-way back-woods Kentucky or Tennessee Mercury motor outlet re-seller. Contact Larry via email to get his referrals to this dealer.]
Peter	posted 12-07-2010 06:47 PM ET (US) "Who is selling 300 HP New Verados for $18K? 2009 list is $28,500 for 25" shaft. Is mercury really coming off their retail by over $10 grand?" They probably are. At 650 lbs, no NMEA 2000 compatibility, several thousand $ more to be laid out for required power steering and DTS, more complication and a limited number of Verado certified service centers, I bet they are a hard motor to sell loose.
jimh	posted 12-07-2010 10:47 PM ET (US) How did this discussion about Yamaha V-MAX SHO motors end up with Larry posting another hyperlink to some Tennessee or Kentucky re-sale shop that specializes in "non-current, blemished, Dealer Buy-out" Mercury motors. This happens so often I feel like CONTINUOUSWAVE is the new sales arm of this guy's dealership. And in this case the buyer is in Europe, right? How many of these hard-to-sell Verado motors do you think these characters have exported to Europe? And isn't that a violation of their terms of sales with Mercury. Doesn't Mercury have European dealers that they are supposed to be "protecting"?
Jorgen	posted 12-08-2010 07:32 AM ET (US) Jim, I am an international business man and can buy any where I like. If this means that I have to buy an old skiff for 300 dollars to mount a new Verado on and than get it exported from US to Europe than I just do that, and pay the local tax, no problem....
jimh	posted 12-08-2010 08:54 AM ET (US) Jorgen--You better ring those good old boys up right away and get that deal going. Buying a loose Verado at a $10,000 discount is a good deal. I hope there are not too many other Europeans already ahead of you in the line.
Peter	posted 12-08-2010 09:01 AM ET (US) Being only 250 lbs over the designer's expected weight of a single outboard on the transom, I think a 650 lb Verado 300 ought to be a perfect fit for the transom of an Outrage 19 II hull. ;)
L H G	posted 12-08-2010 04:44 PM ET (US) The anti-Mercury Evinrude crowd is way too sensitive, and this excitement causes them not to read well, nor understand. I only joined in to back up Nick's claim that a 300HP outboard should cost around 16K bought right. Nothing else, and for no other reason, since I'm not interested in Yamahas at all, nor conversations about powering a boat with Yamahas. So I mentioned that even a super premium 300 Verado is 18K to back up Nick's comment. A 300XS Optimax, incidentally, is also 16K. Did I ever recommend a 300 Verado, or 300 HP "anything" to Jorgen. NO. Please re-read. As for [the] link, once again, ONLY published for the sake of ...verify[ing] the Verado pricing I had indicated. [Long personal endorsement of the dealer redacted. Remember, the only reason to mention this was to proffer the price.--jimh]
Peter	posted 12-08-2010 06:11 PM ET (US) Does "bought right" mean buying a non-current, blemished or dealer buy out product? The meta data for Larry's favorite Internet Verado pricing web page seems to suggest that is what is being offered. If so, it would be hard to buy a non-current Yamaha F300 Offshore given its a new product. Compared to the Verado 300, on a $ per pound basis the Yamaha F300 does not look like a bargain.
Jorgen	posted 12-08-2010 08:04 PM ET (US) Who said that I want a Verado? The post was about the Yamaha V-max, a true Japanese high-tech product that I would prefer..... ;-)
jimh	posted 12-08-2010 10:44 PM ET (US) Yes, Jorgen, I am confused, too. Here was a discussion specifically talking about a Yamaha motor, and next thing you know we are getting hyperlinks and long personal testimonials about a Mercury dealer, located 4,000-miles away who undersells Mercury motors below even the most notorious high-volume discount sellers in the U.S. Larry--In 17 years of publishing this website I have never told anyone they ought to go buy a motor at a particular dealer. My recommendation is to buy an outboard motor from a local authorized dealer with whom you feel you you can have a long-term relationship, and who has a good service department, with trained and certified technicians.
towboater	posted 12-15-2010 01:24 AM ET (US) Jim I would support any effort you take to expand on your advise that DEALER reputation and location is probably the most important aspect to consider when buying a new engine. Jorgen, all brands of high performance engines that come with 5 year warrantees will need constant monitoring, adjusting. They do not plug and play for 5 years. Talk to your potential service people about routine service scheduling. Are they first come first served or will purchasing a new engine from them give you priority service? GET IT IT WRITING. Last thing you want to do is sit on the beach waiting for service on a $18k engine July 1st because you will cross a time threshold that has high risk to void your warrantee on July 2. I think you get the point...Dealer relationship, reputation and location is very important.
Tohsgib	posted 12-15-2010 02:09 PM ET (US) MSRP on outboards is a joke and always has been. When I bought my 1994 Johnson 225 it listed for over $17k and I paid about $9k for it. Yes if you shop(which many on this site don't) you can find a bare engine 300hp for about $13k, if you insist on Yamaha I added $3k padding for ya.
Tohsgib	posted 12-15-2010 02:14 PM ET (US) PS it is not uncommon to knock 50% off MSRP on outboards. My DF115 Suzuki lists for $13,345 and I paid $5995 in the crate and easily found for $7k ish. A Suzuki DF40 lists for $7260...you can buy them all day long for about $4k. If a Yamaha F300 is $25k I would guess $15k is achievable.
Peter	posted 12-15-2010 05:28 PM ET (US) Good luck with finding a new Yamaha F300 with an MSRP of nearly $25K for $15K. Seeing that you get such great deals, maybe you should hire yourself out as an outboard buyer's agent charging a reasonable finder's fee.
tedious	posted 12-15-2010 08:45 PM ET (US) Golly, them new motors is cheep. Don't want one thow cause they need constant monitoring and adjusting.
Owtrayj25	posted 12-15-2010 10:13 PM ET (US) If someone finds a new, in the crate Yamaha 4.2L F300 for $15K, from an authorized dealer, I'll eat it.
Tohsgib	posted 12-16-2010 03:28 PM ET (US) Peter I post great deals on here for free and rarely does anyone take advantage of them...why would they pay me? Outrayj25...give me time and start sharpening your knife.
Tohsgib	posted 12-16-2010 03:38 PM ET (US) Guys...one quick Google and boats.net has 2010 F300 for $18.9k and they are a ripoff. Like I said in my first post $16k should be easy if you shop and $15k is probably achievable. 2010 are now leftovers...wait til spring when 2012's are coming in July. Tedious...your dealer is pretty much MSRP. Ed's has the F225 Sport 20" for $13,500.
Jorgen	posted 12-16-2010 05:55 PM ET (US) I thought you guys advised me not to take the F 300,....... better stick with Optimax so i shop around for a 250 DTS
Peter	posted 12-16-2010 07:48 PM ET (US) The advertised price at Ed's for the 250 SHO is $15,900 which is 72 percent of the $21,870 MSRP. The advertised price at Boats.net for the same motor is $16,622 (76 percent of MSRP). Boat.net's advertised price for the F300 is also 76 percent of MSRP. If we applied the same discount to the F300 that Ed applies to the 250 SHO, namely 28 percent, one would expect the F300 to be advertised at $17,910. That's no where near the 15K to 16K and that does not include ANY of the rigging components (add another $2,000 for rigging components) OR rigging labor OR taxes. By the time you have a functioning F300 on the transom, your wallet will be lighter by at least $22,000 "bought right".
tedious	posted 12-17-2010 08:58 AM ET (US) Jorgen, you've been given some very good advice in this thread, and also some complete foolishness. You need to decide which is which - in the end the motor choice is up to you. Best wishes for an enjoyable holiday season! Tim
Jorgen	posted 12-17-2010 04:14 PM ET (US) Well, thanks to all for the very overwelming advices, I will look around to see if I find a good price on the 250 Optimax DTS here in Euroland. Happy seasons to you all.
Peter	posted 12-17-2010 05:24 PM ET (US) A 250 Optimax DTS may be priceless. No such thing existed in the U.S. For a few years, a 225 Optimax DTS was offered but that is no longer offered.
L H G	posted 12-17-2010 07:40 PM ET (US) http://www.mercurymarine.com/precisionrigging/smartcraft/ smartcraftinaction/dts.php
Peter	posted 12-18-2010 08:52 AM ET (US) No Optimax 200 or 225 DTS models are offered in this government price list ==> dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/patrols/forms/ 2011MercuryStateMunicipalPriceList.pdf . The Optimax DTS models are the only models that do not map over from the brochure line up to the price list line up.