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Author Topic:   Propeller for REVENGE with 200-HP

edgarop posted 01-13-2011 12:34 AM ET (US)
I [am] looking for a good offshore propeller for a Revenge 22 with a 2001 Yamaha HPDI [of 200-HP]. What do you guys recommend? [Give the] brand and size [that] would be good.
jimh posted 01-13-2011 09:11 AM ET (US)
Based on my experience with a REVENGE 22 and 225-HP motors, the propeller pitch for your REVENGE 22 with 200-HP will probably be in the 15 to 17-pitch range, with a diameter that is about as large as you can turn in the propeller aperture on the motor, probably about 15.5 to 15.75-inch diameter. A three-blade propeller with large blade surface should be good. As for brand of propeller, these days all the stainless steel propellers seem to be quite similar. The only propeller that seems to be distinctly different from the mainstream is the Mercury ENERTIA propeller, which uses an unusual alloy of stainless steel.
jimh posted 01-14-2011 09:10 AM ET (US)
Here are the results of testing 11 different propellers on a REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive with 225-HP:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/propellerWDSingle.html
Here are test results from four more propellers:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/propellerWDSingle.html
In these tests the motor is rated at 25-HP more than yours, and the boat has a Whaler Drive. These two factors are somewhat offsetting. You may be able to draw some inference from the results for your situations with a REVENGE 22 with 200-HP.
More propeller testing with the REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive but with a 250-HP motor are given in
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC250HO.html
There are also results from more propeller testing with an E-TEC 225-HP on the boat at:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006964.html
The general trend with these tests has been to use propellers in the 15 to 17-pitch range.
Tom W Clark posted 01-14-2011 01:18 PM ET (US)

quote:
...the propeller pitch for your REVENGE 22 with 200-HP will probably be in the 15 to 17-pitch range...
That is true *if, and only if* the gear ratios are WOT RPM ranges are the same. Most 200 HP outboards have a gear ration 1.85:1, 1.86:1 or 1.87:1 so I'll let Jim slide with his imprecision ;-)

quote:
As for brand of propeller, these days all the stainless steel propellers seem to be quite similar. The only propeller that seems to be distinctly different from the mainstream is the Mercury ENERTIA propeller, which uses an unusual alloy of stainless steel.
Uh, I have to assume Jim is referring to the material a stainless steel propeller is made of because there is a HUGE variety and variation of propeller design and features for large outboard motor propellers. But to say that all stainless steel propellers are quite similar these days, is absurd.
For a recommendation, my first choice would be the 15-1/2" x 17" Mercury MIRAGEplus
jimh posted 01-14-2011 04:36 PM ET (US)
There are many different designs for propellers, but my point was that no particular brand has an exclusive on good designs. Many people ascribe a brand preference to Mercury. With regard to Mercury they make so many different propellers--over 1,000 models--that it seems just by random chance one of them would be good for a particular boat. It is entirely possible that there may be a Mercury propeller that would be a good choice for your boat, but this is not to say there are no other brands who make good propellers for your boat.
As it happens, at the moment I have a Mercury brand propeller on my boat, and that is because I happened to already own this particular propeller. It works well. There are other propellers by other manufacturers that have worked as well or even better, but I did not happen to already own one of them.
Another aspect of Mercury propellers which is significant is the use of universal hub designs which can be adapted to almost every outboard drive shaft by various couplers. This has made the Mercury propeller more or less the universal propeller. However, several other brands make propellers with the same or very similar hub design cast into them, and you can use similar adapters to install these propellers onto a variety of engines.
Most of the propeller designs are not patented, and there are many very similar designs among the various manufacturers.
The only way to evaluate a propeller is to install it on the motor and operate the boat for a while. You really cannot tell much from a few minutes of testing, unless you find the propeller is completely unsuitable.
Tom W Clark posted 01-14-2011 05:52 PM ET (US)
Yes, I agree that "no particular brand has an exclusive on good designs." That is a very long way from saying "these days all the stainless steel propellers seem to be quite similar."
I also agree with Jim's advice to know how a propeller will perform, you need to test it out.
To clarify a few things:
Mercury does not make over 1000 different models of propellers. They make something less than three dozen models of propellers and that included little plastic props for electric trolling motor and very expensive stainless steel props for high performance race boats.
For each model of propeller there are several different pitches available and on many models of propeller there is the option of left hand rotation in addition to right hand rotation.
Of all the propellers a manufacturer makes, only some will fit a particular motor. A 200 HP outboard has the most options. Mercury alone offers 11 different models that could fit a Yamaha 200 HPDI but we know from experience that some of these are not really applicable so the choices are narrowed further.
If you want a stainless steel four blade, Mercury offers two models for the Yamaha 200 HPDI where Precision Propeller Industries, offers 9 different four blade models.
(Almost) all manufacturers of large outboard propellers use the exact same square bore casting that allows the use of field replaceable hub kits so virtually all large propellers can be used on any large outboard.
edgarop posted 01-14-2011 06:57 PM ET (US)
I [am] more looking at the performance aspect of the propellers. How will they do in a 3- to 8-foot ocean swells. I [am] looking for a economical and [efficient] running propeller. I [am] planing on doing some 40- to 70-mile offshore tuna runs and want something that [is] gonna get me good NMPG at a respectable speed. I [am] not looking to go 40-knots all the way out.
jimh posted 01-15-2011 10:40 AM ET (US)
If one did not look at the performance of a propeller, at what other aspect of a propeller would one look? Propellers are all about performance, and not much else. I suppose for people whose boats spend a lot of time on a trailer that the appearance of the propeller might be important. A nice polished propeller looks good on a boat on a trailer.
If you are planing to run your 22-foot Boston Whaler boat in 8-foot seas, you are a much more rugged individual than I am. I am afraid if I went 70-miles out and 70-miles back in 8-foot seas in a 22-foot boat my next move would be to give up boating or get a much larger boat.
I have not seen any engine or propeller combination for a 22-foot Boston Whaler REVENGE where the fuel economy was better than about 3-MPG, or about 2.6-NMPG. It is my experience that with a typical Boston Whaler 22-foot hull the best fuel economy will be in the 25- to 28-MPH range. If you cannot run the boat at that optimum speed range, the fuel economy falls off. In higher seas when you have to slow down it is common to see fuel economy decline to perhaps 2.5-MPH at best, which is 2.17-NMPG. I think it would be prudent to plan your fuel consumption to be around 2.1-NMPG for worst case.
If running 70-nautical miles out and back, we need fuel for 140-miles or
140/2.1 = 66.6-gallons
I hope your REVENGE has the optional fuel tank. The standard 77-gallon tank would be marginal for running that far offshore and safely returning.
I don't think a 200-HP motor on a REVENGE 22 will hit 40-nautical miles per hour. That is about 46-MPH. You'd need the boat to be light, and really have the propeller dialed in to see that sort of speed. I suspect you will be more likely to have a top speed of around 40- to 42-MPH at optimum. That is particularly true if you are carrying a full load of fuel.
jimh posted 01-15-2011 10:47 AM ET (US)
Tom--I think I got that number ("about 1,000") from some Mercury literature, as I recall. Of course, they were probably counting all the different pitch and rotation combinations for each of the many models.
As I said initially, a good place to start propeller selection for a Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 with 200-HP is with a three-blade large-diameter large-blade-area stainless steel propeller with pitch of 15 to 17. Tom's recommendation of a Mercury MIRAGEplus 17-pitch is concurrent with my more general suggestion.
I think the next step is to put one of the recommended propellers on the boat and do some testing. I look forward to hearing some results.
edgarop posted 01-15-2011 11:19 AM ET (US)
Well obviously i wouldnt go out 60 miles offshore in 8 ft seas, but out here in real pacific ocean winds and swell kicks up pretty fast sometimes and dont wanna get stuck climbing big swells with a high speed prop and popping out. Im looking for suggestions on prop recommendations not wether i should go out 60 miles offshore on a 22 ft boat.
jimh posted 01-15-2011 12:36 PM ET (US)
I don't have much interest in proscribing what sort of voyages you undertake. I was just calculating the fuel used in 140-miles of travel at the anticipated fuel consumption and comparing it to the normal fuel capacity of your boat. You should feel completely free to undertake any sort of voyage you choose.
Tom W Clark posted 01-16-2011 03:02 PM ET (US)
If maintaining grip at slow sppeds in rough ocean conditions trumps all other aspects of the propeller's performance, consider the Mercury Revolution 4 in the 14-5/8" x 17" size.

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Author	Topic: Propeller for REVENGE with 200-HP
edgarop	posted 01-13-2011 12:34 AM ET (US) I [am] looking for a good offshore propeller for a Revenge 22 with a 2001 Yamaha HPDI [of 200-HP]. What do you guys recommend? [Give the] brand and size [that] would be good.
jimh	posted 01-13-2011 09:11 AM ET (US) Based on my experience with a REVENGE 22 and 225-HP motors, the propeller pitch for your REVENGE 22 with 200-HP will probably be in the 15 to 17-pitch range, with a diameter that is about as large as you can turn in the propeller aperture on the motor, probably about 15.5 to 15.75-inch diameter. A three-blade propeller with large blade surface should be good. As for brand of propeller, these days all the stainless steel propellers seem to be quite similar. The only propeller that seems to be distinctly different from the mainstream is the Mercury ENERTIA propeller, which uses an unusual alloy of stainless steel.
jimh	posted 01-14-2011 09:10 AM ET (US) Here are the results of testing 11 different propellers on a REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive with 225-HP: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/propellerWDSingle.html Here are test results from four more propellers: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/propellerWDSingle.html In these tests the motor is rated at 25-HP more than yours, and the boat has a Whaler Drive. These two factors are somewhat offsetting. You may be able to draw some inference from the results for your situations with a REVENGE 22 with 200-HP. More propeller testing with the REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive but with a 250-HP motor are given in http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC250HO.html There are also results from more propeller testing with an E-TEC 225-HP on the boat at: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006964.html The general trend with these tests has been to use propellers in the 15 to 17-pitch range.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-14-2011 01:18 PM ET (US) quote: ...the propeller pitch for your REVENGE 22 with 200-HP will probably be in the 15 to 17-pitch range... That is true if, and only if the gear ratios are WOT RPM ranges are the same. Most 200 HP outboards have a gear ration 1.85:1, 1.86:1 or 1.87:1 so I'll let Jim slide with his imprecision ;-) quote: As for brand of propeller, these days all the stainless steel propellers seem to be quite similar. The only propeller that seems to be distinctly different from the mainstream is the Mercury ENERTIA propeller, which uses an unusual alloy of stainless steel. Uh, I have to assume Jim is referring to the material a stainless steel propeller is made of because there is a HUGE variety and variation of propeller design and features for large outboard motor propellers. But to say that all stainless steel propellers are quite similar these days, is absurd. For a recommendation, my first choice would be the 15-1/2" x 17" Mercury MIRAGEplus
jimh	posted 01-14-2011 04:36 PM ET (US) There are many different designs for propellers, but my point was that no particular brand has an exclusive on good designs. Many people ascribe a brand preference to Mercury. With regard to Mercury they make so many different propellers--over 1,000 models--that it seems just by random chance one of them would be good for a particular boat. It is entirely possible that there may be a Mercury propeller that would be a good choice for your boat, but this is not to say there are no other brands who make good propellers for your boat. As it happens, at the moment I have a Mercury brand propeller on my boat, and that is because I happened to already own this particular propeller. It works well. There are other propellers by other manufacturers that have worked as well or even better, but I did not happen to already own one of them. Another aspect of Mercury propellers which is significant is the use of universal hub designs which can be adapted to almost every outboard drive shaft by various couplers. This has made the Mercury propeller more or less the universal propeller. However, several other brands make propellers with the same or very similar hub design cast into them, and you can use similar adapters to install these propellers onto a variety of engines. Most of the propeller designs are not patented, and there are many very similar designs among the various manufacturers. The only way to evaluate a propeller is to install it on the motor and operate the boat for a while. You really cannot tell much from a few minutes of testing, unless you find the propeller is completely unsuitable.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-14-2011 05:52 PM ET (US) Yes, I agree that "no particular brand has an exclusive on good designs." That is a very long way from saying "these days all the stainless steel propellers seem to be quite similar." I also agree with Jim's advice to know how a propeller will perform, you need to test it out. To clarify a few things: Mercury does not make over 1000 different models of propellers. They make something less than three dozen models of propellers and that included little plastic props for electric trolling motor and very expensive stainless steel props for high performance race boats. For each model of propeller there are several different pitches available and on many models of propeller there is the option of left hand rotation in addition to right hand rotation. Of all the propellers a manufacturer makes, only some will fit a particular motor. A 200 HP outboard has the most options. Mercury alone offers 11 different models that could fit a Yamaha 200 HPDI but we know from experience that some of these are not really applicable so the choices are narrowed further. If you want a stainless steel four blade, Mercury offers two models for the Yamaha 200 HPDI where Precision Propeller Industries, offers 9 different four blade models. (Almost) all manufacturers of large outboard propellers use the exact same square bore casting that allows the use of field replaceable hub kits so virtually all large propellers can be used on any large outboard.
edgarop	posted 01-14-2011 06:57 PM ET (US) I [am] more looking at the performance aspect of the propellers. How will they do in a 3- to 8-foot ocean swells. I [am] looking for a economical and [efficient] running propeller. I [am] planing on doing some 40- to 70-mile offshore tuna runs and want something that [is] gonna get me good NMPG at a respectable speed. I [am] not looking to go 40-knots all the way out.
jimh	posted 01-15-2011 10:40 AM ET (US) If one did not look at the performance of a propeller, at what other aspect of a propeller would one look? Propellers are all about performance, and not much else. I suppose for people whose boats spend a lot of time on a trailer that the appearance of the propeller might be important. A nice polished propeller looks good on a boat on a trailer. If you are planing to run your 22-foot Boston Whaler boat in 8-foot seas, you are a much more rugged individual than I am. I am afraid if I went 70-miles out and 70-miles back in 8-foot seas in a 22-foot boat my next move would be to give up boating or get a much larger boat. I have not seen any engine or propeller combination for a 22-foot Boston Whaler REVENGE where the fuel economy was better than about 3-MPG, or about 2.6-NMPG. It is my experience that with a typical Boston Whaler 22-foot hull the best fuel economy will be in the 25- to 28-MPH range. If you cannot run the boat at that optimum speed range, the fuel economy falls off. In higher seas when you have to slow down it is common to see fuel economy decline to perhaps 2.5-MPH at best, which is 2.17-NMPG. I think it would be prudent to plan your fuel consumption to be around 2.1-NMPG for worst case. If running 70-nautical miles out and back, we need fuel for 140-miles or 140/2.1 = 66.6-gallons I hope your REVENGE has the optional fuel tank. The standard 77-gallon tank would be marginal for running that far offshore and safely returning. I don't think a 200-HP motor on a REVENGE 22 will hit 40-nautical miles per hour. That is about 46-MPH. You'd need the boat to be light, and really have the propeller dialed in to see that sort of speed. I suspect you will be more likely to have a top speed of around 40- to 42-MPH at optimum. That is particularly true if you are carrying a full load of fuel.
jimh	posted 01-15-2011 10:47 AM ET (US) Tom--I think I got that number ("about 1,000") from some Mercury literature, as I recall. Of course, they were probably counting all the different pitch and rotation combinations for each of the many models. As I said initially, a good place to start propeller selection for a Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 with 200-HP is with a three-blade large-diameter large-blade-area stainless steel propeller with pitch of 15 to 17. Tom's recommendation of a Mercury MIRAGEplus 17-pitch is concurrent with my more general suggestion. I think the next step is to put one of the recommended propellers on the boat and do some testing. I look forward to hearing some results.
edgarop	posted 01-15-2011 11:19 AM ET (US) Well obviously i wouldnt go out 60 miles offshore in 8 ft seas, but out here in real pacific ocean winds and swell kicks up pretty fast sometimes and dont wanna get stuck climbing big swells with a high speed prop and popping out. Im looking for suggestions on prop recommendations not wether i should go out 60 miles offshore on a 22 ft boat.
jimh	posted 01-15-2011 12:36 PM ET (US) I don't have much interest in proscribing what sort of voyages you undertake. I was just calculating the fuel used in 140-miles of travel at the anticipated fuel consumption and comparing it to the normal fuel capacity of your boat. You should feel completely free to undertake any sort of voyage you choose.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-16-2011 03:02 PM ET (US) If maintaining grip at slow sppeds in rough ocean conditions trumps all other aspects of the propeller's performance, consider the Mercury Revolution 4 in the 14-5/8" x 17" size.