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2000 Yamaha 200-HP Ox66
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ContinuousWave: Whaler Performance
2000 Yamaha 200-HP Ox66
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| Author | Topic: 2000 Yamaha 200-HP Ox66 |
| montauk madness |
posted 03-15-2011 09:31 AM ET (US)  
I currently have the original 1989 Yamaha 200-HP hanging on the back of my Outrage 20, and it's time to replace [it]. I have found a local shop that is selling a low-hour 2000 Yamaha 200-HP Ox66 Saltwater series engine. They are going through the engine now, and I have visually inspected it. They are asking $4,500 rigged on my boat and will give me $500 for mine [and] a five-month warranty I know the engine has fuel injection and is supposed to smoke less, but are there any other differences between the 2000 and the 1989? If I'm going to bother with the swap, I would really like to take advantage of newer technology since 1989. I welcome any opinions, Thanks, Jeff |
| onlyawhaler |
posted 03-15-2011 12:26 PM ET (US)
Hi Jeff, Your 1989 Yamaha you are replacing has a carburetor. They were good outboards. I have a 2000 Ox66 in the 225-HP-class, and it has been a great engine. It is a simple EFI. You will notice quicker starting, less smoke, and perhaps a bit better mileage [compared to a motor with a] carburetor. I have watched the sales prices of these Ox66 enignes on [an on-line auction website], and the price you are paying seems to be in the ballpark, if it is a clean, good unit. Here is what you need to watch out for and maintain: These Ox66 engines do not have an internal hour meter so you have to depend on an external hour meter to have an idea [of the engine running time]. Have a compression test done. And check out the lower gear case lube and water pump impeller condition. In addition, inspect, clean or replace the O2 sensor. The sensor is almost $300. Eventually you will have to do it. Use Yamaha Ring Free fuel additive regularly to help prolong its life. Inspect the three low-volume pumps. Replace if original Inspect, clean and replace the filter inside the VST canister. This is a must. Good luck Sterling |
| jimh |
posted 03-15-2011 05:08 PM ET (US)
I cannot add any first hand experience to the excellent recommendations given by Sterling, but I want to mention that the Yamaha Ox66 engines seem to be somewhat unique among electronic fuel injection outboard engines. There are many outboard engines with the letters "EFI" in a decal on their cowling, but the Yamaha Ox66 engine is substantially different than most of them. The Ox66 engine uses a closed-loop control system and most other EFI outboard appear to use a much simpler open-loop control system. The sensor in the engine exhaust provides the feedback for the Yamaha Ox66 control system to control the fuel-air mixture based on the actual combustion conditions. In other words, the Yamaha adjusts the fuel-air mixture based on what is seen from the exhaust sensor. |
| Wiscbw |
posted 03-17-2011 06:53 AM ET (US)
I've had the same VST [replacement] with my 225 Ox66. Make sure you have a Yamaha 10-Micron or better fuel-water separating filter upstream of the engine. The best way to keep the internal engine filters clean is by keeping the crud out of the engine. I've read Ethanol can dissolve the old varnish and crud in the tanks which then plugs the very fine and very small VST filter. |
| jimh |
posted 03-17-2011 08:55 AM ET (US)
If your current 1989 Yamaha 200-HP two-cycle engine is in good condition and runs well, I think it is worth more than $500, which is what you're getting on the trade-in. |
| Peter |
posted 03-17-2011 09:08 AM ET (US)
I would stay with your simple carburated 2-stroke until it is clearly a liability. By doing so, you will avoid the O2 sensor and VST maintenance. Then when it becomes time to repower, I would jump over to a DFI 2-stroke such as the E-TEC or Optimax or HPDI or a 4-stroke. The EFI 2-stroke does not provide enough benefit over the carburated 2-stroke to outweigh the additional maintenance, in my opinion. I had a 2000 Yamaha Ox66 225 for 4 years on a Revenge 22 and while it was a good motor, the O2 sensor was its weak link. This was before our fuel was diluted with ethanol which seems to attack the VST. |
| montauk madness |
posted 03-17-2011 08:23 PM ET (US)
Thanks Guys for the replies. More background: My current motor is sick. My remote tank pump failed along with my low oil alarm. I ran the motor low on oil for about 15 minutes. It's also very corroded from being exposed to salt water for the last 20+ years. I want to stick with Yamaha for budget reasons but would welcome newer technology (fuel injection etc..) if it's the smart thing to do. The seller of this engine also has older carburetor models as well but I like the idea of easier starting, less smoke and better fuel mileage with the 2000 model. Thanks, Jeff |
| Owtrayj25 |
posted 03-18-2011 06:54 AM ET (US)
I think moving to similar engine, but trading in the carb's for EFI, will be your most cost effective alternative. I think you will be pleased in the operation of the OX66 Yamaha vs the earlier model Carb'd version. I have owned several of both, and would gladly trade in the aggravation of 3 carburetors for some VST and O2 sensor maintenance every year or 2. My experience has been that most older outboard engines do not like ethanol, and carburetors choke a lot worse on the stuff than do VST & O2 sensors. If you are handy, the O2 sensor is servicable yourself-I think Yamaha even has a bulletin on how to do it properly . The O2 EFI will be quieter, smoother, easier starts, etc. as has been mentioned and your controls will be plug and play. $4,500 might be a little rich depending on what "low hours" means. You get a warranty with that? |
| Peter |
posted 03-18-2011 08:57 AM ET (US)
Interesting on the carb'd experience. I have the exact opposite experience. We currently have a 1996 carburated Yamaha 200 in the family on a non-Whaler, I have a 2003 carb'd Johnson 150 on my Outrage 18, and a 2005 Johnson 3.5 on my inflatable and none of them have shown any ill effects (other than reduced fuel economy) from ethanol diluted fuel and we've been using that kind of fuel for at least 5 years now. As previously noted, my biggest gripe with the Ox66 when I had it was the O2 sensor. My 225's operating quality was quite sensitive to the cleanliness of the O2 sensor. I religiously used Yamaha RingFree in the gas in the recommended doses and I still had O2 sensor fouling (requiring RingFree shock treatments) which ultimately lead to spark plug fouling (when the O2 sensor becomes fouled, the motor runs rich thereby causing the spark plugs to foul). The motor was propped correctly to reach 5400 RPM at WOT. This is just something that you will have to pay attention to that you did not on your carb'd 200. And with the corrosive nature of ethanol fuel, you will also have to pay more attention to the aluminum VST. With all of that said, I wouldn't hesitate to own another Ox66 if the price is right. |
| onlyawhaler |
posted 03-18-2011 01:45 PM ET (US)
Hi Jeff,,, again Let me offer my perspective on the service of my OX66, costs and frequency. My engine is a 2000, so we are 11 years old at this point. As I consider the maintaince of the new four strokes, this engine is a breeze and its as cheap to keep as a hamster. Each spring, I order the gasket set from simsyamaha.com for the OX66 sensor. Its about $12. I start up the engine on a hose, burn off the fogging oil from the previous fall, change out my 6 NGK plus, $3 dollars each, unscrew the OX66 sensor, real easy, spray it off with Yamaha combustion chamber cleaner, brush it off with a toothbrush, clean the chamber and tube with a felt pipe cleaner soaked with the same solution, reinstall it with the gasket kit and it all takes 30 minutes. Add another 30 minutes for gearcase lube replacement and I am done for the summer. One hour max. I still have the original OX66 sensor from the factory. I also drain the VST container of gasoline in the fall, there is a drain screw so the internal filter doesn't sit in gasoline all winter. After 10 years, last summer I had a stalling situation due so I finally replaced the stock VST filter and stock (3) low volume pumps, about $50 bucks each and thats all its its 11 year life. Total cost in parts, pumps and VST filter,,,$200. That is cheap, cheap maintance. Plugs are cheap,,, compared to the new 4 strokes and DFIs this is as good and inexpensive to maintain as it gets. Don't be afraid of the O2 sensor. Just clean it in the spring, put in 6 plugs and head for the water. Use the Yamaha Ringfree and it helps. Use the Yamalube in your oil tank and those two things eliminates 95% of all problems. Drain your VST container every winter and you are fine. Onlyawhaler |
| onlyawhaler |
posted 03-18-2011 02:23 PM ET (US)
Here is a plus for the OX66 models. Here in Utah, on Great Salt Lake, much saltier than ocean water, the engine of choice by commercial brine shrimp harvesters was and still is the OX66. They run them sometimes 24 hours a day in a very harsh salt enviroment. They hold up like nothing else and they run them for weeks at at time with nothing more than adding Yamahalube. The 4 stroke have been much more maintance, every 100 hours out for oil changes and other things. They look for and buy OX66s whereever they can find them, fix them, rebuild them and keep them to this day. I know of no other enviroment that is harsher, puts more hours on these engines than right here in Utah. That industry prefers these over anything else. Onlyawhaler |
| conch |
posted 03-19-2011 05:55 AM ET (US)
Hi Jeff, An additional benefit will be the improved SS shift shaft in the newer motor. The shift and throttle control and cables will work however the wiring harness and gauges will be different between a year 1989 and 2000 engine. The shop may be able to splice in the new engine but it is NOT plug and play.Though an easy swap regardless.So there is a greater value to the time that will be involved for the shop rigging this swap than just changing 4 nuts. Your present gauges may have value if the alarm problem that fried your present engine wasn't in the tach itself.Post your gauges here on CW as I or others would be interested in them. Finally $500 for your motor and a five month warranty is a nice benefit with the season beginning.Good Luck. Chuck |
| Peter |
posted 03-19-2011 07:16 AM ET (US)
Jeff -- Back to your original desire to take advantage of newer technology and my view (having owned carb'd, EFI and DFI V6 2-stroke outboards) that the EFI doesn't take enough of a step over carb'd motors for the additional maintenance required, Yamaha seems to also take that view in that they still make and sell the carb'd versions of their 2-stroke motors (just not in the U.S.) but they do not offer the EFI versions, just the HPDI DFI versions. The DFI is enough of a technical leap forward to offer it along side of the carb'd version. About the only thing that you will notice going from your old carb'd 200 to the EFI 200 is that the EFI 200 is easier to start which isn't saying much because all of the carb'd Yamahas with their priming system I've had are pretty easy to start. They both smoke about the same and they will both use about the same amount of fuel overall. My EFI 225 smoked pretty heavily on start up and even at idle just like any 2-stroke. So if the seller also has newer carb'd versions of the motor you have also available, I would take a hard look at that option as well particularly if it can be had cheaper than the EFI version. |
| Wiscbw |
posted 03-19-2011 07:48 AM ET (US)
I also think my 1997 OX 66 is excellent. Is has been very reliable, when I had a dirty VST filter I would lose about 600 rpm, and could still maintain 45 mph. I’ve not had any issues since I added a higher efficiency prefilter about 2 years ago. The previous owner of my boat had a carbureted 200hp Yamaha and complained about cold starts, the EFI OX 66 starts fine.I can start around 40 deg F with no problems. It has lots of power to weight and gets very good fuel economy when running at my typical cruise of 28 mph which is about 3300 rpm. A negative would be poor speed control and fuel economy at trolling speeds, for that I use a 9.9 hp 4 stroke kicker. |
| conch |
posted 03-19-2011 08:48 AM ET (US)
Peter I think the 1989 v6 Yamaha used choke plates in the carb throats operated by solenoid from a switch at the ignition key. Electric fuel priming with enrichment valves came a little later on. Chuck |
| BQUICK |
posted 03-21-2011 10:33 AM ET (US)
My only issue with my 1989 200s is that they are hard to start and don't run well for the first 30 seconds below 40 degrees or so especially if the sun isn't out. Fortunately most of my boating takes place over 50 degrees and sunny.....where they start and run perfectly. I have a couple spare motors and plan on running this format (carbed, 2 strokes) as long as I can. |
| JohnKaloper |
posted 03-21-2011 10:02 PM ET (US)
Jeff, I have had 250hp OX66's on my last two boats. They have been fantastic motors and the O2 sensor is not a weak link in the system. 10 years with total run time about 400 hrs each and the only trouble I have ever had was last summer when I bought some bad fuel (diesel contaminated)which fouled the sensor. Otherwise, both motors have run flawless with the proper maintainance regimen as Sterling states. I would seriously consider OX66 if it checks out by a mechanic and appears to be well taken care of with good history. Good luck, John |
| Owtrayj25 |
posted 03-22-2011 11:30 AM ET (US)
There is one obvious "weak link" in the new, DFI 2-strokes (i.e. E-Tec, Opitmax)...that being price. Plan on an extra $10K to go in that direction. |
| Peter |
posted 03-22-2011 12:52 PM ET (US)
quote: Yeah, but for that extra money you'd be buying something 11 years newer, with zero hours, typically with a 5 year warranty, with better fuel economy, lower oil consumption and little or no smoke. You can lump the new 4-strokes in with that as well. But nobody said that one had to buy anything new. As a comparison, there is a 2001 200 HPDI with 275 hours offered for $5500 on e-bay right now. My view is that if you are going to have to maintain a VST, you might as well do it on an HPDI and get some significant benefit out of the fuel injection system. Otherwise go the newer, simpler carb'd route. |
| BQUICK |
posted 03-22-2011 02:16 PM ET (US)
Good used could be the way to go..... I see a pair of low hour 300 HPDIs for 11,900 on EBAY. In my case that would be 200 hp more than I have now, similar weight, top speed increase from 42 to 50-52 I'd think, in a 31 Stamas. Cruise in upper 30s. That gets my attention. Still, I don't have 11,900 to spend..... |
| Owtrayj25 |
posted 03-23-2011 08:17 AM ET (US)
quote: I think if he (montauk madness) had the extra money, this discussion would have not arisen. Having said that, the 200 HP HPDI is a solid engine...one that seemed to avoid some of the issues with higher horsepower HPDI's. If I were in the market for a used 200 HP engine, I would be considering both the OX66 and the HPDI. Both should be easily integrated with existing Yamaha rigging & controls. |
| Peter |
posted 03-23-2011 09:16 AM ET (US)
For a little extra money, I think I would go with the HPDI if the extra 50 lbs over carb'd is not a problem. The EFI of the Ox66 doesn't provide enough advantage over the comparative carb'd motors. Unfortunately there is no 200 HP comparative data, but at the 150 HP level, the Yamaha 150 carb'd motor is better overall on fuel consumption than the 150 EFI. The carb'd motor is also quieter per Yamaha's reports. See carb'd 150 on 20 foot Century and compare to EFI 150 on same 20 foot Century This is why I see the fork in the road as either carb'd or HPDI and would skip EFI unless that is the only type available or price/condition make it most attractive purchase. |
| BQUICK |
posted 03-23-2011 09:55 AM ET (US)
Wow, that's amazing how much louder the EFI motor was over carbed. 10db across the board. That's significant/noticeable. The motors are basically the came. Must be induction noise? |
| Wiscbw |
posted 03-23-2011 06:54 PM ET (US)
The sound numbers look goofy, 10db is a lot The following 200 HP OX66 has about the same sound levels as the 150 HP Carb engine. But not as goof as the boat weight numbers in the bulletins, |
| Peter |
posted 03-23-2011 09:05 PM ET (US)
Results are per Yamaha who wins either way. Observe that the "weight as tested" for both Century 2000 reports is substantially the same. The take away from the reports is that the EFI system doesn't improve fuel economy contrary to popular belief. If you compare other reports (unfortunately they are not same boat to same boat) you will see a trend on a fuel burn versus RPM basis -- the EFI motor burns more fuel at WOT than the carb'd version. The EFI motor also seems to burn more fuel at 1000 RPM compared to the carb'd version. They are about the same at mid range. |
| tom976 |
posted 03-24-2011 12:22 PM ET (US)
Peter, with the OX66 the motor deactivates two cylinders at idle to the mid 1000 rpm range. I thought 1800 rpm was the cutoff. (do some research on the exact numbers) But how can it use more fuel at idle with cylinder deactivation than a carbed similar motor? |
| Peter |
posted 03-24-2011 02:58 PM ET (US)
I'm not sure that the 2.6L EFI has the 5-4-6 cylinder management system that my 3.1L 225 EFI had. I was under the impression that they did not. In any case, the EFI system has an electric fuel pump and injectors (little solenoid valves) not found in the carb'd motor. These things require energy to operate. Where does that energy come from? The fuel, of course. Also, it would not surprise me given the great difference at WOT that the EFI system is programmed to dump more fuel into the system than the carbs could put in to prevent lean operating conditions. In other words, the Ox66 runs more rich than the carb'd versions at WOT. That's not a bad thing. |
| Owtrayj25 |
posted 03-24-2011 05:06 PM ET (US)
Having owned Yamaha SWS I (Carb'd) & SWS II OX66(EFI) engines of the exact same horsepower, my experience has been: -- SWS II OX66 EFI engines run noticeably quieter -- SWS II OX66 EFI engines require less maintenance; I found the periodic maintenance on the VST (every couple of years) and O2 sensor (every year or 2, depending on usage) was much easier and less time consuming then maintaining sync on 3 carburetors. -- SWS II OX66 EFI engines, overall, get SLIGHTLY better overall fuel economy, based on my duty cycle (most operation at cruise, little operation at WOT. -- SWS II OX66 EFI engines produced noticeably less smoke, both at start-up, and while running, and -- SWS II OX66 EFI engines started easier, almost always on the 1st key turn, when cold. |
| Owtrayj25 |
posted 03-25-2011 08:22 AM ET (US)
Coincidentally, my experience with my current Mercury EFI engine and my recollection of the older Mercury carb'd engine is very similar with respect to start-up, engine smoke and maintenance. I cannot speak to any fuel economy differentials-different HP engines on different hulls using different fuel types |
| BQUICK |
posted 03-25-2011 08:29 AM ET (US)
Maintaining sync on carbs? Why would it change? Mine have never been re-synced since 1989. |
| Peter |
posted 03-25-2011 08:55 AM ET (US)
I also don't understand how sync and link differs between the Ox66, the HPDI and the carb'd motor. |
| tom976 |
posted 03-25-2011 09:12 AM ET (US)
BQUICK, I think the idea is that after 22 years in service the carbs would accumulate some gas deposits in them causing lean conditions that you may not even realize. Your manual probably has some service intervals on those carbs, where you want to follow them or not is your call. Same thing happens to EFI's. Just easier to do because you pull the injectors, get them cleaned and pop them back in. |
| montauk madness |
posted 03-25-2011 06:48 PM ET (US)
Thanks everyone for the replies. The shop has two of these motors ready to sell right now. He had one of them in a tank running when he called me but has since taken it out. I would love to go with a HPDI if I could find one around here. After reading all the replies, I'm still inclined to go with one of them but I reluctant to buy one right now because here in Washington it's not exactly boating season for center console Whalers and my 5 month warranty starts when I drive away with the motor. My plan would be to take it directly to Jacobson Marine for a detailed inspection after purchasing. -Jeff |
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