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Author Topic:   1988 Outrage 22 Whaler Drive 2006 E-TEC 200 HO Prop selection
suede posted 08-03-2012 11:32 PM ET (US)   Profile for suede   Send Email to suede  
Hi, I have [a 1988 Outrage 22 Whaler Drive] that I bought about a year ago and have been using to fish. I love her! Other than a few engine problems, she has been great. Through my engine research and a couple trips that seemed very fuel inefficient, I came across [changing the propeller]. Evinrude says optimum WOT [engine speed for an E-TEC 200 H.O.] is 5,500 to 5,600-RPM. The last chance [the 2006 E-TEC 200 H.O.] was topping out at around 4,800, maybe 5,000-RPM. [I] haven't had water good enough to open her up for any length of time. But she gets to top RPM pretty quick. Since I got [the E-TEC] about 120 hours I never thought about the propeller because she gets up and goes without any problem. Lots of power. [The boat is] normally just [used for] fishing inshore, but a couple offshore trips and the fuel mileage was somewhere around 1.2 to 1.3-MPG. I'm thinking that can't be right. Someone with experience here give me some advice.

As for the boat, she has a T-top, 77-gallon fuel tank, and not sure what console as I read there are several. I haven't been back to the boat since I've started reading about the motor and propeller so I can't say anything about the prop as far as pitch or anything. It's stainless and maybe a Mirage. And I don't know where on the transom the motor is sitting as far as motor height. But I will get that info next time I go down to her.

[Changed to a difference subject, not related to performance or propeller selection.]

jimh posted 08-04-2012 12:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have a similar boat and motor. I average about 3-MPG. I use a MIRAGEplus 17-pitch. My typical maximum engine speed with a heavy load is about 5,500-RPM.

If you want the E-TEC to run properly, you need to get the full-throttle engine speed up into the recommended range. You are running too much propeller pitch if the E-TEC maximum engine speed is only 4,800-RPM.

seahorse posted 08-04-2012 12:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     

It may be a good idea to get your tachometer checked for accuracy.

Your dealer can use the Evinrude diagnostic program to compare your tach readings to the actual rpm shown on the laptop screen. There is also a tach check program in the software that gives a certain signal and the tach should show a certain rpm.

suede posted 08-04-2012 09:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Thanks for the reply's. I agree I may need to check my tach for calibration/accuracy. I would like to get a copy of the software at some point but am still in search of a copy.

Back to the prop/motor...I had a chance to check the prop. I am running a:

Apollo XHS Stainless Steel Prop. 14 3/4 x 21

Motor is sitting on it's lowest setting on the transom.

Jim, does your rig have the whaler drive? What would be good reference points to measure the height of the motor? Bottom of "V" on hull to bottom of (___)? Cav Plate? About what should that measurement be?


seahorse posted 08-04-2012 09:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for seahorse  Send Email to seahorse     
After your tach is checked for accuracy, go ahead and do the following:

Raise the motor so the anti-ventilation plate is just visible above the water when at normal cruise and trim.

Now you can play with propellers. I'm not experienced with your boat, but start with a 15" Rebel or a 17" Viper depending on wether you are looking for cruise efficiency or top speed. This is assuming that your tach is accurate at the present 4800 rpm.

A T-top and bottom paint makes a difference compared to the same boat with neither. Propping is a trial and error procedure if you want to find the propeller that works the best for your needs.

Tom W Clark posted 08-04-2012 10:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
You don't need to check you tach, your boat is grossly over-propepd as Jim notes. A 14-3/4" x 21" Michigan Apollo is all wrong for the boat/motor combination. Whoever fitted it to that boat is an idiot.

I would not bother with trying the BRP Viper and the 15" Rebel is too short. Try the 15-1/2" x 17" BRP Rebel, the 15-1/2" x 17" Mercury MIRAGEplus or the 14-1/4" x 18" Mercury Enertia.

L H G posted 08-04-2012 11:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for L H G    
[Suggests changing the topic to outboard engine repairs.]
crabby posted 08-04-2012 12:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
I have a 250 hp E-TEC on my 22 Outrage with Whaler Drive and swing a 17-pitch Rebel prop. I can barely hit 5700-RPM on a good day running with minimum weight in the boat and if I had the money I'd drop down to a 15 inch pitch Rebel or try a four-blade.

Not to hijack your thread, but I was able to coax 46-MPH out of my rig when I splashed it last month as an Outrage Cuddy. Since then I have removed the cuddy and can barely hit 43 mph. I may need to start a fresh thread to discuss the aerodynamics of the cuddy cabin!

Tom W Clark posted 08-04-2012 12:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
If you can hit 5700 RPM with the 15-1/2" x 17" Rebel and the optimal engine speed range is 5500-5600 RPM, why would you want to drop to a 15" pitch Rebel?
suede posted 08-04-2012 02:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Ah...thanks guys. I'm starting to get the picture. I'm leaning towards the Rebel 15-1/2 x 17. My application is mainly cruising and fuel economy rather than top speed. I use the boat to fish and I don't need to get there WOT. Usually the seas won't let me travel that fast anyway. Long offshore trips where fuel is an issue is what I'm interested in. Offshore, I will troll around so that is concern in terms of economy. When fishing inshore, I idle around 80% of the time.

So the motor height is sitting at it lowest setting on the transom. What is typical for you guys? There are four holes. I'm at the top one. Is there a good starting point?

[Gave a long narrative about his own attempts to repair his outboard engine and also attempts by various dealers, whom he then impugns. If you need advice on making repairs, please start a new thread in REPAIRS/MODS. Thank you--jimh]

fourdfish posted 08-04-2012 03:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
The plugs are very easy to do. Buy 2 extra plugs and it
takes about 10 min. Plugs can be bought on line for about
a little over half reg price.
suede posted 08-09-2012 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
How high are you guys mounting the motor on the hull? Or how does your anti-ventilation plate line up relative to the hull? Are you measuring against the whaler drive or the actual hull? I have read to put the AV plate about an inch above bottom of the hull but I'm not sure where to put it with a WD.
crabby posted 08-09-2012 04:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
My 250 E-tec is mounted three holes up (can only be raised one more hole) on the Whaler Drive. The AV plate is about two inches above the bottom of the WD at a low trim level (might even be a little higher than that, I can double check next time I'm sitting on a sandbar or if I can find any images of it while on blocks). BTW, it just barely clears the center aluminum piece on the rub rail when tilted fully up.

menahaunt11 posted 08-09-2012 10:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for menahaunt11  Send Email to menahaunt11     
I have a 1991 22' Outrage Whaler Drive with a 250 E-TEC running a 15 1/2 x 17 Mercury Mirage Plus. E-TEC is mounted all the way up. I don't have performance #'s but on flat conditions I top out at 5100 rpms and hit 32-34 knots. I'll be changing out to the 15 1/4 x 19 Mirage Plus near the end of the season because I feel the 17 isn't the right fit in terms of top speed. I find the boat performs its best trimmed almost all the way down in rougher conditions and slips terribly when trimmed more than halfway up at higher speeds.
jimh posted 08-11-2012 10:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Suede--Your narrative of problems is confusing and off topic. To get some good advice on E-TEC repairs, visit the E-TEC Owners Website.
crabby posted 08-12-2012 09:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
Here is an image of my motor mounted on the Whaler Drive:


https://picasaweb.google.com/houseboatpaul/ WhalerStuff?authkey=Gv1sRgCP2s2bXquoekOw#5775784118271973426

jimh posted 08-15-2012 08:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Engine mounting height on the transom is measured in units of "holes" or 0.75-inch and counted up from the lowest position.

My boat is a 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive. The E-TEC 225 is mounted one-hole up from the lowest position. The propeller is a MIRAGEplus 17 pitch. The top speed varies with the loading of the boat and the weather, but has been as high as 44-MPH. The maximum engine speed has reached 6,000-RPM (but only very briefly). Typically when loaded heavily for cruising the top speed is about 40 to 42-MPH and the engine winds up to around 5,500-RPM. Almost all of my use of the boat is when it is heavily loaded and during the summer with warm air temperatures.

I have tested a number of propellers. Propellers that worked well were:

--MIRAGEplus 17

--REBEL 17 (a threee blade propeller very similar to the MIRAGEplus

--CYCLONE 17 (a four-blade propeller)

In a prior discussion I have written extensively about testing the three propellers I mention above on my boat with an E-TEC 225-HP. If you are interested in the results of my propeller testing you should read the article

REVENGE 22 W-T WD with 225-HP, Three Propellers
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006964.html

The performance data for the three propeller is presented in a narrative, in tables, and in graphs. There is also data about fuel economy and computation of SLIP values. You may find this interesting. Forgive me for not repeating it all here. You will have to go read the prior discussion.

Regarding the difference between an E-TEC 225-HP and an E-TEC 200 H.O., my impression is the two outboard engines are very similar in their power output. I think the notation "200 H.O." may be intended to offer buyers an engine with a rated power of nominally 200-HP for situations where the maximum power for a boat is rated at 200-HP. The designation is also used to distinguish between two models with 200-HP rating but having different engine blocks and different displacements.

If there is a difference in the power output of a 225-HP model and the 200 H.O. model, I would only expect the difference to be slight, perhaps just 5- to 10-HP at most, I would suppose that the 225-HP might have the edge, if there were any.

In a prior discussion I have written about the mounting height of the engine on my Whaler Drive. See

E-TEC Improves Fuel Economy 67-Percent
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006855.html

jimh posted 08-15-2012 09:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
i also recommend to you reading my article E-TEC Rigging Notes in the REFERENCE section of the website. The article contains a great deal of information related to the installation, rigging, and operation of an E-TEC engine and should be of interest to you.

E-TEC Rigging Notes
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC_Rigging.html

suede posted 08-16-2012 12:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Thank you
suede posted 08-16-2012 12:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
I don't suppose someone here has a lift ring for this motor that would lend it to me for a bit? I promise good karma. Of course I would pay for shipping. I'd just put some money in the package when returning it to cover the shipping cost. Also, I would probably need it for up to a month presumably. I figure I need to have the tools ready before I can schedule/plan usage of a buddies fork lift to lift the motor. I'd really appreciate it.

jimh posted 08-16-2012 11:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
If you need advice on how to raise your engine mounting height on the transom without using a lifting ring and a fork lift, do a search. There are many prior discussions on the topic.
suede posted 08-16-2012 12:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Hi Jim, I have done some searches and read up on it. I came to the conclusion to use the method described because when the motor is down, there isn't enough room under the skag to get a jack under it. The one thing is I haven't tried is lowering the front wheel jack more but even as it is, I would only lower it enough to get the transom vertical (as it is at an acute angle to the ground when the trailer is level). If I can get the transom vertical, it looks like there's a very tight chance a jack will fit. I have to ask some buddies if one has a low pro jack. That would probably help. If I have missed some other strategy, please let me know!!! That would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
Tom W Clark posted 08-16-2012 12:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
You don't use a jack under the motor, you just block under the motor's skeg where it is.

You use the tongue jack on the tailer to lower the transom relative to the motor by raising the tongue.

I just did this last weekend. It took about ten minutes with a couple neighbors helping.

newt posted 08-16-2012 01:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for newt  Send Email to newt     
Tom, the best way to raise an engine is too go rent an engine hoist. We were once told this by a long time very knowledgeable member. :)

Suede, I've used both methods to raise and lower engines. Block the skeg and use the trailer jack or use a jack under the skeg. Both methods work.

When working by yourself, you may find it more convenient to use a jack under the engine, simply because you can see how the bolts are lining up instead of repeatedly walking back and forth between the trailer jack and the engine. On the other hand, if your engine mounting bracket requires that all four bolts must come out in order to raise or lower the engine (Mercury classic 2-stroke for one example), then it will be a lot safer to leave the skeg on some solid blocking and use the trailer jack.

Tom W Clark posted 08-16-2012 03:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
Yes newt, I agree with that vey wise and knowledgeable member, whoever he may be. But if a guy does not want to rent a hoist and chooses the use the tongue jack, block the motor and lower the boat instead of trying to jack up the outboard. It is much easier and safer that way.

The E-TECs have a slot where the lower four (or five) holes are on other brands of outboards. The nuts do not need to be fully removed nor do the lower bolts need to be pulled. Just loosen the nuts and let the motor slide up on the lower bolts.

The motor I lifted last weekend was a Mercury and I left the bolts in place and pulled the motor back off of all four of them before lowering the transom and then tipping the motor back onto the ends of all four bolts in the new holes.

Like I said, it took about ten minutes and was made possible by the help of two neighbors. If I had been by myself I would have had to use a hoist.

By the way, if one wants a lift ring for an E-TEC, you can make yourself one very easily and inexpensively:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/LiftingEye.jpg

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/019568.html

suede posted 08-16-2012 03:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Thanks guys. Makes sense...duh... :). I'll try the trailer jack thing. I see I can just loosen the lower ones and let it slide and just remove the tops. Since it's at the bottom, should I start at second from highest or highest? Suggestions? Btw, I do see that the motor was once mounted at the second hole from lowest setting at some point in its previous life (different owner that is). Not sure what to make of that. I do know the guy before me bought the motor new.
jimh posted 08-16-2012 05:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Engine mounting height is measured in units of "holes" or 0.75-inch and measured up from the lowest possible mounting position. Here are the possible engine mounting positions:

--the lowest position
--one hole up
--two holes up
--three holes up

A few engines might have five holes so you could reach "four holes up" with those.

Please use this measuring system to describe the engine mounting position.

suede posted 08-16-2012 05:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Jim, it's at the lowest position [alternative description of the mounting position deleted] currently. The evident marks that I see where bolts once were are "one hole up" [alternative description deleted]. And my thoughts were to move it to the "two holes up" [alternative description deleted] to start. I hope this helps to clarify. Thanks.
newt posted 08-16-2012 08:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for newt  Send Email to newt     
[Changed topic. Start a new thread to change topic. We are discussing the engine mounting height and propeller selection for this boat. Thank you. See you in the new thread you start for your new topic.--jimh]
suede posted 09-13-2013 12:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Hi, I'm back. I got the Rebel 15 1/2 x 17, and raised the motor. It runs MUCH better but unfortunately not quite there yet. I'm still only getting 5100 WOT rpm. Any other prop suggestions? I guess the Rebel 15 3/4 x 15? It's a lousy guess at $450/guess. The shop I bought it from wont let me exchange it.
Tom W Clark posted 09-13-2013 12:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom W Clark  Send Email to Tom W Clark     
How fast is the boat going at 5100 RPM?
jimh posted 09-13-2013 12:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Tell us a bit more about the tachometer. It is not unusual for a tachometer to be in error. I am very surprised the E-TEC 200 H.O. only reaches 5,100-RPM on your boat.
suede posted 09-13-2013 01:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for suede  Send Email to suede     
Thanks for the quick replies. Tom: 5100rpm = 38kts, 3000rpm = 20kts, 3500rpm = 25kts.
Jim: the tach (and gauge cluster) are the Evinrude ones. The tach is the one with the four warning lights (i.e., low oil, no oil, etc).

jimh posted 09-13-2013 09:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
An Evinrude SystemCheck tachometer can be used with several different outboard engine models. I believe there is a calibration switch. Check the setting of the calibration switch to be certain it is in the proper position.

A conventional analogue tachometer can be in error. It may be that your tachometer is not showing the true engines speed. With an Evinrude E-TEC outboard engine you can obtain the engine speed from the EMM using a NMEA-2000 connection. You can also get the engine speed by using the Evinrude Diagnostic software connected to the EMM. It would be useful to compare the engine speed reported by the EMM to the speed shown on the analogue tachometer. That would establish the accuracy of the analogue tachometer.

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