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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 18 with 150-HP

gwmjr posted 10-29-2012 08:43 PM ET (US)
Back in 2007, I installed a new Mercury 150 EFI on my 1985 Outrage 18. The specified engine speed at WOT is 5,000 to 5600-RPM. I am currently using a 19-inch Quicksilver aluminum propeller PN 2016P19. It will push the boat at WOT to about 49-MPH at 5,300-RPM. What might I gain by switching to a stainless steel propeller? Also, what SS propeller might you recommend? I mainly use the boat for saltwater inshore fishing in the Gulf of Mexico and for pulling skiers at a nearby lake here in middle Georgia. In those conditions, I rarely run the boat at WOT. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
L H G posted 10-29-2012 10:52 PM ET (US)
You are already getting excellent performance from the Mercury Black Max aluminum, but for all out top end and a much smoother, bow lifting ride, a Mercury Laser II 19" with solid vent plugs installed, would be a great performer and 2 MPH faster. I run one of these on my Merc 150 powered classic Outrage 19. I also run them on my twin powered Outrage 18.
If all out top end is not your goal, and for the same speed you are already getting, the four bladed Mercury Vensura 19" would also be a choice, and better for the water skiing pulling power than either the aluminum or Laser II. It will also improve ride and acceleration over the aluminum. It's a much better prop than some here give it credit for on a rig like yours.
A third, but slightly more expensive choice would be the Mercury Enertia 18" or 19". This is one of Mercury's most modern designs and an excellent all around performer.
Even if recommended by someone, you do not want a Mercury Mirage Plus on your boat.
jimh posted 10-29-2012 11:09 PM ET (US)

quote:
What might I gain by switching to a stainless steel propeller?
Your boat performance seems quite good now with the current propeller. If you change to a stainless steel propeller, you will obtain the following results:
--your wallet will lose $300 to $500 due to the cost of the new propeller;
--your Mercury gear case will shift with a loud clunk due to the weight of the new propeller; if it already does have a clunk, the clunk will be even louder;
--you may find annoying propeller rattle noises with the new propeller due to its weight, but you may be able to fix that with another $100 for a special anti-rattle hub. See the first comment above;
--you may enjoy a ultimate top speed that is slightly faster due to the thinner blades of the new propeller; and,
--you will certainly have a more durable propeller which will be able to tolerate minor strikes with various objects without being damaged due to the superior strength of the steel compared to the aluminum; most aluminum propellers are one-and-done in any sort of blade strike encounter. This is probably the most appealing feature of the stainless steel propeller for your boat and power level.

quote: L H G
Even if recommended by someone, you do not want a Mercury Mirage Plus on your boat.
I have to laugh on this advice. The MIRAGEplus is one of Mercury's best designs ever, and probably one of the most widely used three-blade propellers in outboard engine history. It might be the perfect propeller for your situation. You really never know, until you try a few propellers, what is going to be the best application for your particular combination of hull, engine, and use.
gwmjr posted 10-30-2012 08:46 AM ET (US)
Thank you very much for the responses.
L H G posted 10-30-2012 01:14 PM ET (US)
Jim's 2nd and 3rd comments are absolutely false. I own Mercury V-6 engines and Mercury props, and have run all three of the ones I mentioned on my Mercury 150, even in the same 19" pitch. I have also run Laser II props on my my very similar 200 EFI's. No rattle, no clunk with standard Mercury Flo-Torq II hub kits.
The last paragraph indicating a Mercury Mirage Plus is the perfect propeller for an 18 Outrage with 150HP is also false. The prop was never designed for that sort of application on a lightweight boat.
jimh posted 11-01-2012 09:27 PM ET (US)
Larry--You make me smile. Your boundless boosterism for Mercury has no limit or any sign of declining. Let me say a few things in rebuttal to your pronouncements of TRUTH and LIES.
First of all, the gear cases on older Mercury outboard motors already make rather loud clunks when you shift them. Perhaps I should remind you of what Claus Brustle said when he was being shown Mercury's outboard engines so he could become familiar with them before creating the VERADO. Let's go over this again, shall we?
As you may recall, Mercury hired German auto engineer Claus Bruestle from Porsche to take charge of their four-cycle outboard motor development program. Claus told this anecdote about his experience with Mercury outboard motor shift mechanisms during an interview he gave when the Verado motor was being introduced at the Miami International Boat Show:

quote:
When I joined Mercury, people were very nice to me and taught me how to drive and dock a boat. I remember one of my first experiences driving a boat, when I shifted and it made this great clunk. I said, "We are going to stop this—it sounds like a 1950s truck."
People said, "Why? It's always been that way."
I said, "Exactly.
Maybe Claus Bruestle should have just listened to you, Larry, and left Mercury gear case engineering where it was--sounding like a 1950's truck--instead of designing a new gear case for the VERADO. Fortunately for Mercury, Claus could trust his own instincts. He knew that Mercury gear cases shifted with about the same sophistication as a 1950's truck, and he improved them.
As for the heavier weight of a stainless steel propeller causing more CLUNK and also causing propeller rattle, these are completely true statements. Why in the world would Mercury be making a line of specialty hubs for the FLO-TORQ propellers to suppress clunk and rattle if there were none?
And, finally, Larry, I never once said that a MIRAGEplus would be perfect for this fellow's boat. I simply informed him that he ought to try a variety of propellers, including perhaps a MIRAGEplus, because really no one can predict in advance exactly how a particular boat, motor, and propeller combination is going to work. I thought it was rather odd that you were handing out NON-RECOMMENDATIONS instead of recommendations. Now if you told the guy not to try a two-blade chopper propeller, I think you'd be in safe water. But to tell the guy that one of the most versatile, popular, and best known three-blade propellers ever made should be dismissed on your say so is a bit much, in my opinion.
Tom W Clark posted 11-09-2012 11:06 AM ET (US)
You do not want to use a Mercury MIRAGEplus on an Outrage 18 with a 150; it is not a good fit.
You will do much better with a 19" or 21" Laser II or a 19" Stiletto Advantage.
L H G posted 11-09-2012 01:44 PM ET (US)
Tom, why do you go against Jim's advice? You, too, then become subject of this ridicule:
"I have to laugh on this advice. The MIRAGEplus is one of Mercury's best designs ever, and probably one of the most widely used three-blade propellers in outboard engine history. It might be the perfect propeller for your situation. You really never know, until you try a few propellers, what is going to be the best application for your particular combination of hull, engine, and use."

jimh posted 11-09-2012 02:14 PM ET (US)
Usually propeller recommendations are given as lists of what to try, not as lists of what not to try. I though it was particularly unusual for L H G reply with advice that only certain propellers be tried, and one in particular must be excluded. I made this clear. I do not consider this to be ridicule.
At no time have I ever predicted or recommended that any propeller would be the perfect propeller for this boat or any other boat. The best way to determine actual propeller performance is by trial and test. It therefore follows like the night the day that I never said the MIRAGEplus was the perfect propeller for this application. I simply said that I though it was unusual for someone to use a technique of debate known as poisoning the well before anyone had even mentioned the MIRAGEplus. Please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well for more on this rhetorical technique
I don't believe--nor do I think anyone esle does, either--that pointing out the technique of poisoning-the-well has been used constitutes ridicule.
I have tested many propellers. In several instances the propeller was recommended or thought by others to be a suitable propeller for my application, but the outcome of an actual test did not confirm that notion. On the basis of this experience I formed a belief. Let me simply state that belief as this axiom:
Not all propellers recommended will work as expected.
Now I am a man of rational thought, I understand the methods of testing, of the scientific method, of logic, and other elements of this problem. With that in mind I have developed a corollary to the above axiom, which is logically the inverse:
Not all propellers NOT recommended will work as NOT expected.
This is the experience, the method, the logic which caused me to comment as I did. I have been repeatedly quoted on this comment, but, what the heck, here it is again.

quote:
You really never know, until you try a few propellers, what is going to be the best application for your particular combination of hull, engine, and use.
jimh posted 11-09-2012 02:17 PM ET (US)
I think my triple-NOT statement is hard to interpret, so I will simply it:
Some propellers NOT recommended may work.
crbenny posted 11-09-2012 06:44 PM ET (US)
In my experience, the Laser II with V6 power on an 18' Outrage is a tough act to follow. I've been running a 19" on mine for years. You'll find a comparison I did if you do a search where I put the 19" Laser II against the Enertia 18". I switched back to the Laser II and that new Enertia sits in the box on my shelf with one afternoon of use on it.
My motor is a 25 year old 2.0 litre 135 Black Max and my understanding is that the 150 EFI 2.5 litre is a monster in comparison. Judging by your current performance I can see that's the case so the 20" or 21" may be a better fit. I believe the Laser II is available in 1" increments.
Chris

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Author	Topic: OUTRAGE 18 with 150-HP
gwmjr	posted 10-29-2012 08:43 PM ET (US) Back in 2007, I installed a new Mercury 150 EFI on my 1985 Outrage 18. The specified engine speed at WOT is 5,000 to 5600-RPM. I am currently using a 19-inch Quicksilver aluminum propeller PN 2016P19. It will push the boat at WOT to about 49-MPH at 5,300-RPM. What might I gain by switching to a stainless steel propeller? Also, what SS propeller might you recommend? I mainly use the boat for saltwater inshore fishing in the Gulf of Mexico and for pulling skiers at a nearby lake here in middle Georgia. In those conditions, I rarely run the boat at WOT. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
L H G	posted 10-29-2012 10:52 PM ET (US) You are already getting excellent performance from the Mercury Black Max aluminum, but for all out top end and a much smoother, bow lifting ride, a Mercury Laser II 19" with solid vent plugs installed, would be a great performer and 2 MPH faster. I run one of these on my Merc 150 powered classic Outrage 19. I also run them on my twin powered Outrage 18. If all out top end is not your goal, and for the same speed you are already getting, the four bladed Mercury Vensura 19" would also be a choice, and better for the water skiing pulling power than either the aluminum or Laser II. It will also improve ride and acceleration over the aluminum. It's a much better prop than some here give it credit for on a rig like yours. A third, but slightly more expensive choice would be the Mercury Enertia 18" or 19". This is one of Mercury's most modern designs and an excellent all around performer. Even if recommended by someone, you do not want a Mercury Mirage Plus on your boat.
jimh	posted 10-29-2012 11:09 PM ET (US) quote: What might I gain by switching to a stainless steel propeller? Your boat performance seems quite good now with the current propeller. If you change to a stainless steel propeller, you will obtain the following results: --your wallet will lose $300 to $500 due to the cost of the new propeller; --your Mercury gear case will shift with a loud clunk due to the weight of the new propeller; if it already does have a clunk, the clunk will be even louder; --you may find annoying propeller rattle noises with the new propeller due to its weight, but you may be able to fix that with another $100 for a special anti-rattle hub. See the first comment above; --you may enjoy a ultimate top speed that is slightly faster due to the thinner blades of the new propeller; and, --you will certainly have a more durable propeller which will be able to tolerate minor strikes with various objects without being damaged due to the superior strength of the steel compared to the aluminum; most aluminum propellers are one-and-done in any sort of blade strike encounter. This is probably the most appealing feature of the stainless steel propeller for your boat and power level. quote: L H G Even if recommended by someone, you do not want a Mercury Mirage Plus on your boat. I have to laugh on this advice. The MIRAGEplus is one of Mercury's best designs ever, and probably one of the most widely used three-blade propellers in outboard engine history. It might be the perfect propeller for your situation. You really never know, until you try a few propellers, what is going to be the best application for your particular combination of hull, engine, and use.
gwmjr	posted 10-30-2012 08:46 AM ET (US) Thank you very much for the responses.
L H G	posted 10-30-2012 01:14 PM ET (US) Jim's 2nd and 3rd comments are absolutely false. I own Mercury V-6 engines and Mercury props, and have run all three of the ones I mentioned on my Mercury 150, even in the same 19" pitch. I have also run Laser II props on my my very similar 200 EFI's. No rattle, no clunk with standard Mercury Flo-Torq II hub kits. The last paragraph indicating a Mercury Mirage Plus is the perfect propeller for an 18 Outrage with 150HP is also false. The prop was never designed for that sort of application on a lightweight boat.
jimh	posted 11-01-2012 09:27 PM ET (US) Larry--You make me smile. Your boundless boosterism for Mercury has no limit or any sign of declining. Let me say a few things in rebuttal to your pronouncements of TRUTH and LIES. First of all, the gear cases on older Mercury outboard motors already make rather loud clunks when you shift them. Perhaps I should remind you of what Claus Brustle said when he was being shown Mercury's outboard engines so he could become familiar with them before creating the VERADO. Let's go over this again, shall we? As you may recall, Mercury hired German auto engineer Claus Bruestle from Porsche to take charge of their four-cycle outboard motor development program. Claus told this anecdote about his experience with Mercury outboard motor shift mechanisms during an interview he gave when the Verado motor was being introduced at the Miami International Boat Show: quote: When I joined Mercury, people were very nice to me and taught me how to drive and dock a boat. I remember one of my first experiences driving a boat, when I shifted and it made this great clunk. I said, "We are going to stop this—it sounds like a 1950s truck." People said, "Why? It's always been that way." I said, "Exactly. Maybe Claus Bruestle should have just listened to you, Larry, and left Mercury gear case engineering where it was--sounding like a 1950's truck--instead of designing a new gear case for the VERADO. Fortunately for Mercury, Claus could trust his own instincts. He knew that Mercury gear cases shifted with about the same sophistication as a 1950's truck, and he improved them. As for the heavier weight of a stainless steel propeller causing more CLUNK and also causing propeller rattle, these are completely true statements. Why in the world would Mercury be making a line of specialty hubs for the FLO-TORQ propellers to suppress clunk and rattle if there were none? And, finally, Larry, I never once said that a MIRAGEplus would be perfect for this fellow's boat. I simply informed him that he ought to try a variety of propellers, including perhaps a MIRAGEplus, because really no one can predict in advance exactly how a particular boat, motor, and propeller combination is going to work. I thought it was rather odd that you were handing out NON-RECOMMENDATIONS instead of recommendations. Now if you told the guy not to try a two-blade chopper propeller, I think you'd be in safe water. But to tell the guy that one of the most versatile, popular, and best known three-blade propellers ever made should be dismissed on your say so is a bit much, in my opinion.
Tom W Clark	posted 11-09-2012 11:06 AM ET (US) You do not want to use a Mercury MIRAGEplus on an Outrage 18 with a 150; it is not a good fit. You will do much better with a 19" or 21" Laser II or a 19" Stiletto Advantage.
L H G	posted 11-09-2012 01:44 PM ET (US) Tom, why do you go against Jim's advice? You, too, then become subject of this ridicule: "I have to laugh on this advice. The MIRAGEplus is one of Mercury's best designs ever, and probably one of the most widely used three-blade propellers in outboard engine history. It might be the perfect propeller for your situation. You really never know, until you try a few propellers, what is going to be the best application for your particular combination of hull, engine, and use."
jimh	posted 11-09-2012 02:14 PM ET (US) Usually propeller recommendations are given as lists of what to try, not as lists of what not to try. I though it was particularly unusual for L H G reply with advice that only certain propellers be tried, and one in particular must be excluded. I made this clear. I do not consider this to be ridicule. At no time have I ever predicted or recommended that any propeller would be the perfect propeller for this boat or any other boat. The best way to determine actual propeller performance is by trial and test. It therefore follows like the night the day that I never said the MIRAGEplus was the perfect propeller for this application. I simply said that I though it was unusual for someone to use a technique of debate known as poisoning the well before anyone had even mentioned the MIRAGEplus. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well for more on this rhetorical technique I don't believe--nor do I think anyone esle does, either--that pointing out the technique of poisoning-the-well has been used constitutes ridicule. I have tested many propellers. In several instances the propeller was recommended or thought by others to be a suitable propeller for my application, but the outcome of an actual test did not confirm that notion. On the basis of this experience I formed a belief. Let me simply state that belief as this axiom: Not all propellers recommended will work as expected. Now I am a man of rational thought, I understand the methods of testing, of the scientific method, of logic, and other elements of this problem. With that in mind I have developed a corollary to the above axiom, which is logically the inverse: Not all propellers NOT recommended will work as NOT expected. This is the experience, the method, the logic which caused me to comment as I did. I have been repeatedly quoted on this comment, but, what the heck, here it is again. quote: You really never know, until you try a few propellers, what is going to be the best application for your particular combination of hull, engine, and use.
jimh	posted 11-09-2012 02:17 PM ET (US) I think my triple-NOT statement is hard to interpret, so I will simply it: Some propellers NOT recommended may work.
crbenny	posted 11-09-2012 06:44 PM ET (US) In my experience, the Laser II with V6 power on an 18' Outrage is a tough act to follow. I've been running a 19" on mine for years. You'll find a comparison I did if you do a search where I put the 19" Laser II against the Enertia 18". I switched back to the Laser II and that new Enertia sits in the box on my shelf with one afternoon of use on it. My motor is a 25 year old 2.0 litre 135 Black Max and my understanding is that the 150 EFI 2.5 litre is a monster in comparison. Judging by your current performance I can see that's the case so the 20" or 21" may be a better fit. I believe the Laser II is available in 1" increments. Chris