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Author Topic:   Repowering Temptation 25

sojahseh posted 01-11-2013 03:51 PM ET (US)
I'm repowering my 25' Whaler Temptation WD and I'd like some feedback on my options. The Whaler Drive on my boat has the flat area at the bottom, apparently included to accommodate a 25" shaft. However, in measuring the hull, my outboard dealer is saying it could go either way: 25" or 30". In fact, he originally said 25" could be too short. Does anyone have direct experience choosing a shaft length for this hull with a WD? What did you choose and how did it perform?
Also, for monetary reasons, I'm looking at a single 300 hp rather than twins (19K vs 25K). I don't fish and won't be traveling offshore very far. I don't dock my boat in a river or in a marina so navigating tight turns, etc. is not a constant consideration, although those moments do occur.
Is anyone else running a similar setup with a single? How does the boat handle? My boat does about 35-38 mph. Under good conditions, what do you expect my top speed would be with the 300 Etec?
Finally, I'm hearing conflicting reports on fuel economy. Can I expect better fuel economy with twin 150 Etecs or a single 300 Etec?
Feedback is appreciated. Thanks.

jimh posted 01-11-2013 04:33 PM ET (US)
I have a 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 with Whaler Drive. I have a single engine. My engine is a 25-inch shaft. The engine is presently mounted in the one-hole up position. It appears to me that the engine could be moved up one more hole.
I think that using a 30-inch-shaft engine would be a mistake for a Boston Whaler boat with a Whaler Drive that has the center section with a flat bottom.
Tom W Clark posted 01-11-2013 05:13 PM ET (US)
Your dealer does not know how to measure. The Whaler Drive is designed for a 25" single.
If you install an E-TEC, mount it two holes up.
L H G posted 01-11-2013 07:36 PM ET (US)
You can listen to these guys if you want to, but in my opinion, as a 25 Outrage owner with bracketed twins, I would not put a single 300 25" Evinrude on that hull.
1. the 25 WD Temptation is a very heavy hull, and the WD slows performance even more. They are not particularly fast boats unless powered by twin 225's.
2. The 300 Evinrude (same engine as the 250 HO) is not known as a rocket ship. Look at other brands if you must go with a 300 single, or you may have a SLUG on your hands.
3. Usually a deep vee boat that runs twin 25" engines needs a 30" single. Mine would, that is for sure. I have never seen a 25' Whaler Drive Temptation with a single on it. If a single 25" engine should be mounted up 2 holes as indicated, how high should 25" twins with a 4 hole pattern be mounted? The deadrise is greater than 2 holes (1-1/2") with 28" centerline mounting.
If you want Evinrudes, go with a pair of small bore 200's.
sojahseh posted 01-11-2013 04:56 PM ET (US)
Thanks for your response, Jim. It's too bad...I was going to get a sweet deal on the 30" since it was new in the box from 2011. Guess I'll have to pony up the extra cash.
If anyone else has feedback on the handling with a single instead of duals, I'm all ears. (After reading up on this, I know where you stand jimh.) :)
jimh posted 01-11-2013 10:19 PM ET (US)
A 25-foot classic Boston Whaler hull with a Whaler Drive is really a 27-foot 6-inch boat. A boat of that size is a good candidate for twin engine power. A single with 300-HP will give the boat plenty of power. As for handling, I don't think there will be much difference, except perhaps at low speeds and maneuvering around a dock. However, it is not particularly hard to maneuver a single engine outboard boat around a dock.
A very knowledgeable friend of mine, whose boat has twin engines, recently mentioned to me if he were to re-power he would switch to a big single.
Tom W Clark posted 01-11-2013 10:31 PM ET (US)
There is nothing particularly heavy about the Temptation 25.
If you are seeing 35-38 MPH now, you will think your boat is a ROCKET SHIP with a new E-TEC 300. It should be good for speeds up to 45 MPH.
No, the E-TEC 300 is not the same motor as the E-TEC 250 H.O.
Tom W Clark posted 01-11-2013 10:36 PM ET (US)
Larry -- Whaler has always specified a 25" shaft length motor for the Whaler Drive equipped models, single or twins. The flat spot at the keel allows for this.
If you use twins on a Whale Drive equipped Whaler, the motors need to be mounted as high as they can possibly can go and even then, they will be too low by today's standards.
See page 38 of the 1988 Boston Whaler catalog for a view of how the factory rigged a 25 Whaler Drive with twins. And that was 25 years ago back when outboards were typically mounted so as to be "buried".
Peter posted 01-12-2013 06:27 AM ET (US)
I've had both single and twin powered classic Whalers, with and without Whaler Drive, with and without trim tabs. For the classic 25 Whaler hull approximately 27 feet in length with the Whaler Drive, twin 150 E-TEC outboards is the way to go.
With twin outboards you will have more propeller surface area and will get much better traction while underway in all conditions. Docking control will be better with the twin outboards. If you troll, you can shut one of the twin outboards down and alternate between the two to keep total hours down.
With modern fuel efficient outboards, the fuel economy difference between single and twins is minimal. Some boat manufacturers' performance reports actually show twin outboard powered boats getting better fuel economy than the single powered versions of similar HP.
A 22/25 WD has no place for trim tabs. With twin outboards, you can trim them to some extent to get virtual trim tabs. You can't do that with a single and so you are stuck with the boat listing into the wind in quartering seas producing a harsh ride because the boat is banging on the windward chine.
Twin 150 E-TECs will give you 5.2L of powerhead displacement. A single 300 will only give you 3.4L of displacement. That additional 1.8L of displacement or lack thereof will be noticible when you load the boat up with weight. It would be similar to the performance difference for a full size SUV with the V6 and V8 motor options.
jamesmylesmcp posted 01-12-2013 07:45 AM ET (US)
I have seen a Temptation repowered with a single Verado a few times in New york Harbor not sure if it is a 22 or 25 but the engine sure looks to be mounted pretty high.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x44/ribside/untitled.jpg
Peter posted 01-12-2013 08:23 AM ET (US)
Even when Verados are mounted all the way down, they still appear to be mounted high because they have a tall straight six powerhead which is mounted on a pedestal.
sojahseh posted 01-12-2013 03:38 PM ET (US)
I neglected to mention the engines being replaced are twin 150 hp, 1987 Yamahas. Approximately 750 hours each.
I should be able to reduce the weight of the boat by 250 lb by unloading the Yammys and moving to the single 300 E-tec. This is heartening. If I can get this boat up to 45 mph, I'll be content.
Sounds like the concensus is that twins would be ideal. Unfortunately, I just can't afford it but I'm hoping the Fly By Wire throttle will assist in docking. I also have a suicide knob which has been a lifesaver, especially because of the ancient Seastar rig which was pretty stiff.
Jim, what size boat is your friend operating? What are his reasons for considering just a big single?
Peter posted 01-12-2013 05:46 PM ET (US)
Fly by wire shifting will make no difference in docking.
jimh posted 01-13-2013 01:20 PM ET (US)
When re-powering, there is a tendency to stick with the same arrangement as the original. A boat initially powered with a single is much easier to re-power with another single, and a boat initially powered with twins is much easier to re-power with twins. I say that because of the engine mounting and rigging.
When you change from twin to single or vice versa, the transom has to be plugged and redrilled. The steering gear will need revisions, too, particularly if going to twins from single. You will need a tie-bar and perhaps some other steering rigging changes. The steering for a single may be adapted from the components of twin-engine steering, but there could be some problems to be overcome. The engine controls are another concern. And the gauges, panel layout, ignition keys, and so on, are all likely to need change. In general, there is more work in the re-power if you change from single to twin or vice versa.
If the present rigging is in good shape and can be completely re-used, this also tends to encourage staying with the same configuration.
Of course, for the great majority of us, costs are a consideration. If you are in the 99-th percentile and cost is not a concern, that is great. But for most, twins engines will generally mean more costs. Time is also a factor.
When I re-powered by boat, I stayed with a single engine, and I stayed in the same brand. This greatly reduced the time for the re-power. It literally only took a few hours to take off the old motor and put the new motor on the boat. If I had changed to twins and changed to a new brand of motor, the re-power would have been a much longer project. These are some additional elements to consider when contemplating re-power of your classic Boston Whaler.
There is one new development with rigging that changes some considerations. My present boat has electronic throttle and shift controls and all electronic gauges. If I were to to change to twin engines, the re-rigging of the throttle and shift would take about a hour or two. I would just have to install a slightly different helm control for the shift and throttle. The new twin engines would just plug into a network hub already installed and waiting for them. The instrumentation could be very quickly changed for twins by swapping a couple of gauges. I'd add a second tachometer, and perhaps change one of the smaller gauges to monitor something on the second engine. This would be so simple it would not take much time at all. There would be no new wires or harnesses to install. This is a bit of a hidden benefit of the modern electronic gauges and electronic throttle and shift.

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Author	Topic: Repowering Temptation 25
sojahseh	posted 01-11-2013 03:51 PM ET (US) I'm repowering my 25' Whaler Temptation WD and I'd like some feedback on my options. The Whaler Drive on my boat has the flat area at the bottom, apparently included to accommodate a 25" shaft. However, in measuring the hull, my outboard dealer is saying it could go either way: 25" or 30". In fact, he originally said 25" could be too short. Does anyone have direct experience choosing a shaft length for this hull with a WD? What did you choose and how did it perform? Also, for monetary reasons, I'm looking at a single 300 hp rather than twins (19K vs 25K). I don't fish and won't be traveling offshore very far. I don't dock my boat in a river or in a marina so navigating tight turns, etc. is not a constant consideration, although those moments do occur. Is anyone else running a similar setup with a single? How does the boat handle? My boat does about 35-38 mph. Under good conditions, what do you expect my top speed would be with the 300 Etec? Finally, I'm hearing conflicting reports on fuel economy. Can I expect better fuel economy with twin 150 Etecs or a single 300 Etec? Feedback is appreciated. Thanks.
jimh	posted 01-11-2013 04:33 PM ET (US) I have a 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 with Whaler Drive. I have a single engine. My engine is a 25-inch shaft. The engine is presently mounted in the one-hole up position. It appears to me that the engine could be moved up one more hole. I think that using a 30-inch-shaft engine would be a mistake for a Boston Whaler boat with a Whaler Drive that has the center section with a flat bottom.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-11-2013 05:13 PM ET (US) Your dealer does not know how to measure. The Whaler Drive is designed for a 25" single. If you install an E-TEC, mount it two holes up.
L H G	posted 01-11-2013 07:36 PM ET (US) You can listen to these guys if you want to, but in my opinion, as a 25 Outrage owner with bracketed twins, I would not put a single 300 25" Evinrude on that hull. 1. the 25 WD Temptation is a very heavy hull, and the WD slows performance even more. They are not particularly fast boats unless powered by twin 225's. 2. The 300 Evinrude (same engine as the 250 HO) is not known as a rocket ship. Look at other brands if you must go with a 300 single, or you may have a SLUG on your hands. 3. Usually a deep vee boat that runs twin 25" engines needs a 30" single. Mine would, that is for sure. I have never seen a 25' Whaler Drive Temptation with a single on it. If a single 25" engine should be mounted up 2 holes as indicated, how high should 25" twins with a 4 hole pattern be mounted? The deadrise is greater than 2 holes (1-1/2") with 28" centerline mounting. If you want Evinrudes, go with a pair of small bore 200's.
sojahseh	posted 01-11-2013 04:56 PM ET (US) Thanks for your response, Jim. It's too bad...I was going to get a sweet deal on the 30" since it was new in the box from 2011. Guess I'll have to pony up the extra cash. If anyone else has feedback on the handling with a single instead of duals, I'm all ears. (After reading up on this, I know where you stand jimh.) :)
jimh	posted 01-11-2013 10:19 PM ET (US) A 25-foot classic Boston Whaler hull with a Whaler Drive is really a 27-foot 6-inch boat. A boat of that size is a good candidate for twin engine power. A single with 300-HP will give the boat plenty of power. As for handling, I don't think there will be much difference, except perhaps at low speeds and maneuvering around a dock. However, it is not particularly hard to maneuver a single engine outboard boat around a dock. A very knowledgeable friend of mine, whose boat has twin engines, recently mentioned to me if he were to re-power he would switch to a big single.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-11-2013 10:31 PM ET (US) There is nothing particularly heavy about the Temptation 25. If you are seeing 35-38 MPH now, you will think your boat is a ROCKET SHIP with a new E-TEC 300. It should be good for speeds up to 45 MPH. No, the E-TEC 300 is not the same motor as the E-TEC 250 H.O.
Tom W Clark	posted 01-11-2013 10:36 PM ET (US) Larry -- Whaler has always specified a 25" shaft length motor for the Whaler Drive equipped models, single or twins. The flat spot at the keel allows for this. If you use twins on a Whale Drive equipped Whaler, the motors need to be mounted as high as they can possibly can go and even then, they will be too low by today's standards. See page 38 of the 1988 Boston Whaler catalog for a view of how the factory rigged a 25 Whaler Drive with twins. And that was 25 years ago back when outboards were typically mounted so as to be "buried".
Peter	posted 01-12-2013 06:27 AM ET (US) I've had both single and twin powered classic Whalers, with and without Whaler Drive, with and without trim tabs. For the classic 25 Whaler hull approximately 27 feet in length with the Whaler Drive, twin 150 E-TEC outboards is the way to go. With twin outboards you will have more propeller surface area and will get much better traction while underway in all conditions. Docking control will be better with the twin outboards. If you troll, you can shut one of the twin outboards down and alternate between the two to keep total hours down. With modern fuel efficient outboards, the fuel economy difference between single and twins is minimal. Some boat manufacturers' performance reports actually show twin outboard powered boats getting better fuel economy than the single powered versions of similar HP. A 22/25 WD has no place for trim tabs. With twin outboards, you can trim them to some extent to get virtual trim tabs. You can't do that with a single and so you are stuck with the boat listing into the wind in quartering seas producing a harsh ride because the boat is banging on the windward chine. Twin 150 E-TECs will give you 5.2L of powerhead displacement. A single 300 will only give you 3.4L of displacement. That additional 1.8L of displacement or lack thereof will be noticible when you load the boat up with weight. It would be similar to the performance difference for a full size SUV with the V6 and V8 motor options.
jamesmylesmcp	posted 01-12-2013 07:45 AM ET (US) I have seen a Temptation repowered with a single Verado a few times in New york Harbor not sure if it is a 22 or 25 but the engine sure looks to be mounted pretty high. http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x44/ribside/untitled.jpg
Peter	posted 01-12-2013 08:23 AM ET (US) Even when Verados are mounted all the way down, they still appear to be mounted high because they have a tall straight six powerhead which is mounted on a pedestal.
sojahseh	posted 01-12-2013 03:38 PM ET (US) I neglected to mention the engines being replaced are twin 150 hp, 1987 Yamahas. Approximately 750 hours each. I should be able to reduce the weight of the boat by 250 lb by unloading the Yammys and moving to the single 300 E-tec. This is heartening. If I can get this boat up to 45 mph, I'll be content. Sounds like the concensus is that twins would be ideal. Unfortunately, I just can't afford it but I'm hoping the Fly By Wire throttle will assist in docking. I also have a suicide knob which has been a lifesaver, especially because of the ancient Seastar rig which was pretty stiff. Jim, what size boat is your friend operating? What are his reasons for considering just a big single?
Peter	posted 01-12-2013 05:46 PM ET (US) Fly by wire shifting will make no difference in docking.
jimh	posted 01-13-2013 01:20 PM ET (US) When re-powering, there is a tendency to stick with the same arrangement as the original. A boat initially powered with a single is much easier to re-power with another single, and a boat initially powered with twins is much easier to re-power with twins. I say that because of the engine mounting and rigging. When you change from twin to single or vice versa, the transom has to be plugged and redrilled. The steering gear will need revisions, too, particularly if going to twins from single. You will need a tie-bar and perhaps some other steering rigging changes. The steering for a single may be adapted from the components of twin-engine steering, but there could be some problems to be overcome. The engine controls are another concern. And the gauges, panel layout, ignition keys, and so on, are all likely to need change. In general, there is more work in the re-power if you change from single to twin or vice versa. If the present rigging is in good shape and can be completely re-used, this also tends to encourage staying with the same configuration. Of course, for the great majority of us, costs are a consideration. If you are in the 99-th percentile and cost is not a concern, that is great. But for most, twins engines will generally mean more costs. Time is also a factor. When I re-powered by boat, I stayed with a single engine, and I stayed in the same brand. This greatly reduced the time for the re-power. It literally only took a few hours to take off the old motor and put the new motor on the boat. If I had changed to twins and changed to a new brand of motor, the re-power would have been a much longer project. These are some additional elements to consider when contemplating re-power of your classic Boston Whaler. There is one new development with rigging that changes some considerations. My present boat has electronic throttle and shift controls and all electronic gauges. If I were to to change to twin engines, the re-rigging of the throttle and shift would take about a hour or two. I would just have to install a slightly different helm control for the shift and throttle. The new twin engines would just plug into a network hub already installed and waiting for them. The instrumentation could be very quickly changed for twins by swapping a couple of gauges. I'd add a second tachometer, and perhaps change one of the smaller gauges to monitor something on the second engine. This would be so simple it would not take much time at all. There would be no new wires or harnesses to install. This is a bit of a hidden benefit of the modern electronic gauges and electronic throttle and shift.