posted 05-17-2002 02:13 AM ET (US)            

Since I am the "early bird", (first post to and to compliment you on another great Cetacea page), do I win a new Montauk? YES? Great, I will send my address so you can ship it to me.....LOL

posted 05-17-2002 11:03 AM ET (US)            

Hey I noticed that you said its a nice looking boat .......How about the Captain ;-)

posted 05-17-2002 01:06 PM ET (US)            

I really liked seeing the pictures of the new hull in the water. First I've seen of that.

There are a few other things I'd love to see if possible:

-the factory fuel tanks end up looking pretty tiny. How about a picture with the Pate tank under the RPS?

And one of the selling features of the new Montauk is the extra clearance around the center console. What about a shot from a high angle straight down the boat from the stern or bow.

posted 05-19-2002 06:25 AM ET (US)         

Congratulations on your new boat! A few questions: What is the black thing on the starboard rear area of the anchor locker? Does the anchor locker have a handle in the top of it, or does the scallop in it's trailing edge provide the clearance to lift the hatch? Is it difficult to lift the hatch with the cushion in place?

Does the boat have a stern drain plug for the drain sump? Is it easy to access the pump to clear debris that can jam the pump?

Is the 4-stroke Mercury fuel injected? What are the fuel consumption figures at a comfortable cruise speed?

How is the visibility over the console when seated? Can you drive the boat from the seated position? Is the windshield relatively free of distortion?

I know that these are a lot of questions, but these are the more practical issues I look at when considering a "new" design.

Again, congratulations! I wish you the best of luck.

posted 05-19-2002 06:28 AM ET (US)         

I have to give credit to you for doing such a beautiful job incorporating tobasco's pictures and text into the website. Another top-notch job! Your attention to detail and precision is greatly appreciated.

posted 05-19-2002 06:32 AM ET (US)         

My grade-school teachers would have hit me on the wrist with a ruler for that one! It should read: "Your attention to detail and precision ARE greatly appreciated."

posted 05-20-2002 11:30 AM ET (US)            

And congrats to Ray on the boat. I would love to see some more action shots as well.

Thanks

posted 05-21-2002 04:13 AM ET (US)         

You're right! I made the incorrect correction after a twelve hour night shift.

posted 05-22-2002 03:56 PM ET (US)            

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002573.html (good comments by Dick about the local dealer)

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002610.html (interesting comment by lhg about 2 stroke trade/resale)

posted 05-23-2002 08:30 AM ET (US)            

I will try and answer your questions even though you have addressed them to Ray/Tabasco.

Background:
I own a 2002 Montauk 170 with a 90 HP 4 stroke and currently the standard aluminum prop. My extras include the fishing package and swim platform and an hour-meter mounted in the console locker. The hour-meter matches the other gauges so it should have been mounted in the dash where it would fit nicely to the right of the stock gauges. The dealer tucked it into the top inside of the console thinking I wouldn't want to see it all the time but where it is I can't read it with bifocals.

Q.
What is the black thing on the starboard rear area of the anchor locker?

A.
It is half of a "nipple/socket" affair and made of rubber. A small SS screw in the top of the hatch holds the nipple part which goes into the socket. One would assume that it acts as a cushioned bumper for the hatch but because of the nipple part I feel that it may also prevent any lateral movement of the hatch cover and spare the hinges the torquing such leverage would cause.

Q.
Does the anchor locker have a handle in the top of it, or does the scallop in it's trailing edge provide the clearance to lift the hatch?

A.
There is a scallop in the boat body below the hatch which allows sufficient grip on the hatch for lifting it.

Q.
Is it difficult to lift the hatch with the cushion in place?

A.
I don't own the cushion as I use my anchor a great deal and we fish off the forward platform. I did play with the cushion however so I can answer your question. The cushion attaches to a forward fitting with a short strap with a delrin buckle. This allows the cushion to be lifted forward and the hatch lid to be raised but it is awkward. I forget if there are snaps on the aft edge of the cushion to deal with. The cushion is large and somewhat awkward.

Q.
Does the boat have a stern drain plug for the drain sump?

A.
The boat comes with two plugs. The anchor locker has a drain which I do NOT plug as I am on a fresh water lake and water which may enter while underway will not cause any harm and without a plug it will, along with rain which is collected, simply drain away.

There are two holes on the starboard side of the transom. One is for the bilge pump and the other drains the well forward of the engine. My transducer cable passes through this hole where it goes directly into the engine control/fuel harness assembly. No wire holders were used on the transom.

Q.
Is it easy to access the pump to clear debris that can jam the pump?

A.
Access to the bilge pump and its float actuator is through a slotted hatch in the aft sole. The hatch has a mini version of the rubber socket/nylon nipple in the middle of the port/starboard sides. The access to the pump and actuator is superb as well as ability to clean the sump.

Q.
Is the 4-stroke Mercury fuel injected?

A.
I don't think so. It is not an EFI engine. Yesterday, in hour three of break-in, I was able to get the Garmin 182 GPS Sounder to register 37-38 for a top speed with the standard prop, after tweaking the trim. In hour two I was only able to get 34-35. Our added weight to the boat was negligible; my son is 55 lbs (nearly 9) and I am 190 lbs (6'2") and we had fishing rods and some tackle. I look forward to trying the SS prop which is included with the 4 stroke package.

Q.
What are the fuel consumption figures at a comfortable cruise speed?

A.
Good question.

Q.
How is the visibility over the console when seated?

A.
Interesting question... My first comment to the dealer sitting next to me on our delivery shakedown cruise was, "All I see is stainless steel!" Now, I should probably tell you that a year ago this dealer delivered our first powerboat, a 2000 13 Sport with a 40 HP 4 stroke. This Montauk is MUCH more boat and I love it but it is different than the Sport.

From the pilot seat, and I have a long torso, I look at the SS that surrounds the windshield and the SS bow rail is parallel, sometimes above and sometimes below. It is initially "in the way" but after a few minutes one gets used to it and it is now not even noticed. I would NOT mount a GPS antenna mushroom on the SS rail above the windshield as that would definitely be in the line of sight and, IMHO, obnoxiously so. My Garmin 182 GPS Sounder is grey-scale and has the internal antenna. (Garmin claims it will work fine with a Bimini as long as there is not too much metal work.) BTW, Ray/Tabasco is putting his Garmin 2006C mushroom antenna on that rail so we can ask him how it looks.

I should ask my wife her thoughts as she is 5'2"...

Q.
Can you drive the boat from the seated position?

A.
Only with a license in CT. ;-)
Seriously, yes, I can and so can my blond wife so I would imagine anyone could.

Q.
Is the windshield relatively free of distortion?

A.
It is bent at the corners and that is distorted but not a problem.

My reactions are that this is a great boat. It solves all the shortcomings we found with the 13 Sport. We can walk around without stepping over thwarts. It is MUCH more stable. It planes very fast and seems to sip gasoline. I have easy access to the gas tanks, unlike the Sport. I like the storage in the console. The bailer is much better than the self-bailing nature of the Sport where the battery weight kept the drain just slightly below the water-level and allowed the area under the battery to get all scummy with algae. Cleaning was difficult as the Sport design requires one to unscrew the thwart to remove the battery. This Montauk is much easier to maintain/clean than I found the Sport to be.

I tried to buy the boat without the bow-rail but Whaler won't sell it that way. My wife is very happy to have the rail and it is handy for fender hanging on the uprights.

The stability, "cornering" and smooth ride of this hull just have to be experienced to be believed. I liked the 13 Sport hull design and this is that on steroids.

I hope this info helps.

posted 05-23-2002 08:40 AM ET (US)            

Q.
Does the forward locker have a slot for the anchor chain?

A.
Yes, although I would not lay chain in it. There is a moulded channel below the hatch lid in the bow.

posted 05-23-2002 08:49 AM ET (US)            

One complaint I have is that the cushion on the cooler hits the backrest cushion on the rodholder and prevents full access to the cooler interior. Worse, it stresses the cooler tiedowns causing them to loosen.

I have removed my cooler cushion as it still a fine seat for kids without the cushion and snapping it on and unsnapping it off to stow it under my RPS every time was a pain-in-the-butt. The cooler cover still hits the seatback pad but it allows a useful degree of opening of the cooler lid.

The seatback cushion doesn't interfere with my spinning reels/rods in the rodholder so I will leave it in place as it gets covered by my console cover.

I am thinking of spinning my cooler around 180 degrees to see if that is useful. I will keep the forum posted.

posted 05-23-2002 01:58 PM ET (US)         

Thank you for your responses to my inquiry. Your answers help me compare the classic Montauk to the new Montauk with regards to their features and layout.

posted 05-23-2002 02:16 PM ET (US)            

Yes, I did get a SS prop with the 90 HP 4 stroke. The specifics are 13 1/8th inch 16 pitch right hand rotation stainless steel Vengeance prop.

My boat came with a 90 HP two stroke and out of the kindness of his heart Skip Birbarie ordedred me a 90/4 and sold the 2 stroke on the side. He could have simply sold the boat as is with the 2 stroke to anyone on the coast and had me wait for a fishing package/swim platform/4 stroke to arrive in July.

I kept the standard 15 pitch aluminum prop on the motor but I will try to swap it if I can do it from the boat while docked... (Is it possible?) My maximum speed seems to be less than optimal, not that it really matters.

posted 05-23-2002 07:37 PM ET (US)            

Here are some numbers from todays fishing trip on East Twin Lake in NW Connecticut.
Myself at 190 lbs, my 8 year old son Scot at 55 lbs and his cousin & neighbor Josh at 65 lbs. They were sitting on the anchor locker hatch during the test. The weather was beautiful with a 6-9 MPH breeze. Prop was standard aluminum 15 on the 90 HP 4 stroke. I have 5 hours on the motor according to the hourmeter. Speed was measured with a Garmin 182 GPS Sounder with internal antenna.

At 2,000 RPM the speed was 7.5 MPH

At 2,500 RPM the speed was 10.3 MPH

At 3,000 RPM the speed was 16.5 MPH

At 3,500 RPM the speed was 22.0 MPH

At 4,000 RPM the speed was 25.0 MPH

At 4,500 RPM the speed was 28.0 MPH

At 5,000 RPM the speed was 31.5 MPH

At 5,500 RPM, WOT, the speed was 36.0 MPH

At 5,600 RPM, WOT, TRIMMED the speed was 37.1 MPH Max

Without trimming the motor WOT was 5,500 RPM and 36.0 MPH but if I trimmed the engine carefully it would max out at the higher numbers of 5,600 RPM and 37.1 MPH.

The middle numbers are difficult to get exact since the hull on plane is always creeping higher, numberwise. Put another way it is difficult to keep things at, say, 3,500 RPM as the boat is wanting to plane more and hence go faster in RPM and MPH. It is pretty tricky to be handling the throttle and wheel while looking at the GPS and writing down the data on a fluttering pad of paper.

I don't know if this is useful data or not but in the event that it is I am posting it here.

I also don't know if the speeds will improve with more time on the engine.

I did take some high speed corners and the boat is amazing in its stability. I wish I had more experience than my 13 Sport so I could make some more meaningful comparisons.

The wake at WOT is unbelievably small. There is no spray in the boat at all at WOT. Well, actually the first day I took these same two crew out after school and I/we forgot to take in the fenders and my son got drenched at quite a bit less than WOT. The benefit is that he will never forget to take in the fenders or he will sit on the opposite side.

Scot caught the only fish which was a good size crappie. I saw LOTS of fish at 38 and 58 feet on the Garmin sounder. I have discovered virtual fishing where it is almost as much fun finding them in the sonar beam as catching them.

BTW, I reversed my cooler and it is much better although the graphics, a ruler, is now upsidedown. An added benefit is the catch on the lid is now out of the way if it is left unsecured.

-Hugh

posted 05-25-2002 09:13 AM ET (US)            

Rodger,

It may be underpowered but, at least for me, zipping along at 37 MPH in the Montauk is pretty exhilarating.

Last fall my best friend from college visited from Atlanta and he has put on a major belly over the 30 years. I took him out in the 13 Sport and it took f o r e v e r to get the boat on plane. It was terrible. I was embarrassed for my boat and my friend. Since then he has lost 10 lbs (!) and I have this new Montauk. I don't think the new boat will have any trouble getting on plane should he visit again.

Stuart

I have no problem with the console. Well, actually I do. My dock is on the starboard side and in the 13 Sport, with the wheel on the starboard side it was easy to motor in and grab the dock from the helm. The Montauk has the wheel on the port side of the center console and the boat is as wide as a house, well it seems that way when I am docking next to my neighbors boat, so I am quite a distance from the dock. It will come in time but I miss the lithe handling of the 13 Sport in tight spaces.

If I could redesign the dashboard I would remove the compass which is centered on the wheel and forward. In its place I would put the Garmin 182 so it was able to face directly aft and could be viewed in sonar mode while fishing from the stern. My Garmin is to the right side and angled toward the pilot so it is not readable from the starboard stern.

I hope this answers your questions/concerns. If you can water test this boat I hope you do as it is wonderful.

posted 06-04-2002 04:14 PM ET (US)            

Regarding the Pate tank...
Why can't you simply drill into the tunnel to route the fuel line? Doesn't the tunnel continue to the console like the old montauks?

If you move the tank foward 3 inches, can you still access the fill cap?

It's a shame that the tank really doesn't "fit" under the seat like it does on the old montauks where the footprint of the tank is substantially within the outline of the RPS. Actually the 27 doesn't really fit on the old montauk unless you hinge (as I did) or raise the seat so you can access the filler.

Good luck with the boat.

posted 06-05-2002 08:40 AM ET (US)            

That's approximately the distance between the fuel line and the seat (3 ")and there still would be enough room to open the filler cap.

To answer the other question....yes you could just drill another hole but I didn't want the boat to resemble swiss cheese under the seat. I already had to fill the small holes where the factory hold-downs where installed.

A WORD OF CAUTION:
Anyone installing a Pate tank (27 gallons)......DO NOT FILL ABOVE 25 GALLONS or you will get fumes.The tank needs room for expansion. Also be very careful if you spill gas while filling as it will run into the sump area and the fumes are terrible. I learned this the hard way.

posted 06-05-2002 08:54 AM ET (US)            

From the limited experience the group has to date, will the 170 self-bail while docked with the 90 2 stroke. I am taking delivery this Sunday and was hoping to keep the boat docked with the scuppers out.

Also how is the factory delivered console cover. My dealer, is only offering a custom cover for close to $600, which I think is over the top but maybe I don't have a good handle on the price of these items....

posted 06-05-2002 07:48 PM ET (US)            

The self bailer works great. It is a Rule 1100 GPH pump with a Rule-a-matic Plus automatic float switch. It pumps out a single transom hole,

There is a bilge/sump drain at the starboard rear corner, plugged while in the water. The area wil get scummy with algae, whatever.

The two seat/steps are lowest at the stern, 4 stroke, so they will get scummy, whatever, as well.

The two scuppers/drains in the engine well will also get scummy at the depressions ahead of the holes.

Cleaning with a brush is fairly routine and much easier than on the 13 Sport. I much prefer the pump than the self-bailing.

If anyone wants a pattern for installing Dri-Dek in the anchor locker to protect the gel-coat let me know. The dimensions are a BIG secret at Whaler but I think I have a most effective and material efficient plan using 7 pieces.

Another point; The 12 volt white pole light which installs in the dash has a GE 909 or Perko Fig 338-2 bulb rated at 2 miles. It is an odd push-in bulb with exposed folded wires on the flattened base. It is a filament bulb. I was wondering if anyone knew of an LED replacement bulb which might have better performance and durability.

Thanks in advance...

posted 06-05-2002 08:10 PM ET (US)            

Hugh,

If I was to disable the Rule pump and pull the plug from the bildge, would the hull self bail while left in the water, or would a fair amount of water enter the boat making this tactic unusable...

posted 06-06-2002 08:19 AM ET (US)            

Anthony T,

It is easy to disable the bilge pump via the three position dash switch; OFF, STANDBY, ON.

I have not actually done what you propose so I can't respond from experience but I would NOT expect it to work as the bilge/sump is 4"-5" (estimated) below the sole so the drain hole is probably well below the waterline. Typically a self-bailer would drain from the sole which would, by definition, be above the waterline.

My complaint with the switch design is that I feel there should be a lock to keep it in the STANDBY position. I am always afraid that I will accidently knock it into the OFF position while putting on my console cover. If I hit the switch and it came ON I think I would hear the pump running and make the correction.

posted 06-06-2002 09:40 AM ET (US)            

Thanks for the info. on the 3 position bilge switch, since I was wondering how I was going to do this experiment without cutting/pulling wires.
Given that the drain is below the water line, the bilge will probably fill with water but the possibility exists that it may not go higher than the bilge therefore allowing a person to have the pump off, plug pulled and when it rains it self bails with no pump at all.

This may be wishful thinking but at least worth a try...

posted 06-06-2002 07:59 PM ET (US)            

I will attempt the experiment the next time I am at the lake.

Ventura16/Tom,

Thanks for the idea! I will ask the dealer for a new switch.

Anyone,

My thoughts on console/RPS covers;
Sunbrella is the material of choice and any local canvass shop can measure and cut material to perfectly fit your needs. I like to do some things like that locally if possible and a relationship with a good canvass person is worthwhile, IMHO.

Whaler has covers in grey which is fine and crertainly probably in stock for immediate gratification. I had mine custom made in Whaler RED and the cost was similar too Mills. Mine have no snaps but a bungie cord around the bottom with a nylon hook at each end which I hook together when they are in place. The console bungie slips under the foot recess on the aft side and nothing short of a tornado will lift it off. The RPS bungie slips under the aft edge of my gas tanks and holds as well as it needs to, I would say my covers are slightly oversize which makes installation much easier than if they were really fitted and taut.

I hope this helps.

posted 06-06-2002 11:30 PM ET (US)            

Thanks for trying and also for the good info. on the Console/RPS covers....

I do have another question though... I'm assuming that if I want a fuel(water separator filter) it is not part of the overall package and I'll need to add it on and it is really a good idea to have. Is this the feeling of the group ?

AnthonyT

posted 06-07-2002 01:04 AM ET (US)            

If you add one, where would you mount it? You'd want it high enough to be out of any stray water in the bilge or engine well, but where's that spot on a new Montauk?

posted 06-09-2002 10:43 PM ET (US)            

I saw mine first at the dealers dock today and later in my garage.... I need to say, it looked good in both places but better in my garage. I didn't want to leave it at the slip knowing that I will be away for 2 weeks, but the first Saturday morning its going int he water. Anyway, it will give me a chance to deal with the console cover and electronics.

As we were pulling in from the test run and final checkout, the dealer brought a couple with a baby to see the boat in the water. Needless to say, the woman saw my smile from ear to ear and asked "Was it that good.. Yep ".
Unfortunetly, the dealer had 2 this past week and now none. At least a 6-8 week wait ...

First the finish was great and yes I think it rides noticeably better that the older hull plus more room; no I never owned an older classic but I been in a few in a chop.

The test run was in a 15 mph chop and besides one or two thuds resulting from a big cruiser's wake, it was pretty smooth and dry. The 8" increase in beam also makes a nice difference. My daughter who was on the cooler, was grinning from ear to ear also.

I did notice that it is a little tough to get the cooler to sit just right, but maybe practice will make perfect.

I did try taking out the scuppers at dock and think it will let in too much water, so I'm afraid we will all count the standby bilge setting.

posted 06-16-2002 12:21 AM ET (US)            

This is what a lot of us have been wondering about. Good News! When I was anchored in fresh water tody in my new Montauk I pulled the plug with 10 gallons gas under the seat and only me in the boat (200 pounds my weight) I sat in the helm seat and watched. The water slowly filled to near the top of the sump well and stopped! My kids were out swimming and then I had them to get into the boat (270 additional pounds) The results were still surprising. The water flooded over into just the rear floor area and stopped at about .5 to .75 of an inch deep.

posted 06-24-2002 03:16 PM ET (US)            

Thanks for running the experiment, regarding the self-bailing, this is good news. I finally go the boat in the water this Saturday and got everything stowed away and canvas installed. The canvas is from Mills, was easy to install (snaps), fits well and matches the Whaler factory Bimini exactly.

Was able to take her out twice on Sunday, once fishing in the morning which the fluke graciously christened her and later in the afternoon with my daughter crabbing.

She handled the Rips down in Holgate admirally and was nice and dry in the afternoon chop. Stable, roomy and regarding power, I was clocked her on my GPS at about 25.8 MpH at about 3500 with 2 big men, rods and full fuel, with a 2 stroke 90 Mecury, maybe a little breeze behind us.

I don't know if anybody has done a side by side comparison (in the water) of the new whaler next to the classic, but I'm docked to about 6 or 7 classics and received several comments on how much larger the boat "appears", including freeboard....

Have any of you experienced the same ?

By the way, I guess I will have to remove the cooler seat back cushion because when rods are inserted into the holders they start rubbing on the cushion. Any solutions ?

posted 06-25-2002 08:52 AM ET (US)            

You recall correctly....

If this is any help on the trailer height, I used a 2" drop on the back of a Land Cruiser and it was fine....

posted 07-11-2002 12:26 AM ET (US)            

First, thanks for all the information that you shared with the group, it has helped tremendously. Even the graphics place turned out to be a winner. They were half the price for graphics for my kids' sailboats than some of the other quotes and they are in my backyard.

Love the boat and all of the classic whaler owners just google it, especially its space around the console and its perceived greater bow freeboard.

The boat needs more storage... Some places to squeeze:

- A few inches below the RPS, under the cushion.
- Below the back seats ?

The fishing package back cushion and rods in holders don't go together. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the rods rub on the cushion unless I remove it.

As previously mentioned, more support for the front rail. Also an option for railing that has a space up front for getting on/off and throwing the anchor out without doing a dance of placing it below the railing and then trying to let it out.. interesting.

Fix the cooler opening with the back cushion in place. Not an issue while fishing since I take off the back cushion to accomondate the rods in the holder but still an issue.

Had it out in some 15 - 20 knot chop in barnegat bay it it handled it pretty well. Only really one case of getting a little wet and that was probably due to pilot error.

This may also be me, but I've noticed the boat drifts in the wind more than other boats with more V.... am I crazy or is this true, although the fluke are not complaining.

posted 07-12-2002 08:37 AM ET (US)            

I would love to, but nnfortunately my kids have plans for that day which I need to partake in. I even tried to change them so that I could join the gathering.... maybe next time...

posted 07-15-2002 06:18 PM ET (US)            

One thing that was not clear to me from the pictures is how spacious the new 170 is. You can walk through between the console and the gunwale without turning sidewise. Nice.

posted 07-16-2002 08:40 AM ET (US)            

It truly is a beautiful boat. Heh...the dealer was showing it to another customer when we got there and by the time we left, the customer had put his order in. Will be the end of August for him. He tried to talk us into cancelling our boat so he could have it. <g>

posted 07-18-2002 06:08 PM ET (US)            

Come one come all......

posted 07-30-2002 11:32 PM ET (US)            

You are hitting upon one of the hot topics for the new 170. I can't give you a comparison since all I have is the new 170 Montauk which is still in the break-in period. I personally think that the 90HP is fine for most uses of the boat. Some of my numbers are as follows (via GPS):

3500 RPM - 25 MPH
4000 RPM - not quite 30MPH

Hope this helps...

posted 08-14-2002 08:25 AM ET (US)            

OK IT'S TIME TO COME OUT OF THE CLOSET. I changed motors on my Montauk 170 and installed a Mercury 115HP EFI. Now I am sure I will get some flack from forum members about being over the HP rating however I was not happy with my 90 four stroke (underpowered). THIS IS THE RIGHT MOTOR FOR THIS BOAT. It runs so smooth with the EFI. The max for the boat WOT is 50.3 MPH on the GPS. The torque is wonderful .....can pull two skiers with no problem and great for tubing. The best is the idol and low speed running....very smooth. Maybe when Mercury starting make more of the 115's they will raise the Max HP Rating on the Montauk 170 to 115HP. IT'S THE PERFECT MOTOR FOR THIS NEW HEAVIER MONTAUK 170.

The insurance is no problem, have it insured with Progressive and the 115HP motor is written into the policy as over HP rating.

Well there you have it I'm out of the closet.

posted 08-14-2002 10:03 AM ET (US)            

All of the information that you've shared with the group is greatly appreciated.
I'm also very happy with my new 170... With that said, you are now making us all look bad with that spanking new 115 EFI...LOL...
Should we all now go in the closet ? LOL...

posted 08-14-2002 02:46 PM ET (US)         

Regarding the Mercury & Yamaha 75/80 & 90/100 carbed 4-strokes, for either brand, it just doesn't make sense with the lack of EFI. Since they are a joint venture, with Yamaha (I believe) making the powerhead, and with Mercury being so strong in outboard EFI systems, what are they doing here? Does Mercury make the 115 EFI system on this engine for both brands, or does each use their own version? Why is Mercury's 115 EFI given a 3 Star pollution rating, while the Yamaha version only gets 2 Stars from C.A.R.B. Don't know. I'm wondering if it's Yamaha dragging their feet on this one? Mercury makes the 30-60HP EFI's for their own line, and gives these powerheads to Yamaha, but Yamaha puts carbs on them instead. Why? So we know Mercury believes 4-strokes should have EFI. My Mercury dealer specifically told me not to get a carbed 75 or 90 4-stroke, and thought that EFI would come out on them for 2003. But this is evidently not the case. So what gives?

Could it be inadequate EFI production capacity with Merc/Yamaha, because of the popularity of the 115's? I'm also wondering if this heavy 4-stroke has numbered days for both brands, hence no more technology upgrades. Most think that for 75 & 90 HP, they are too heavy. Maybe Mercury has their own new lightweight EFI 4-stroke in the works as a 2004 or 2005 replacement? In the Mercury and Yamaha lines, the jump in weight from 60 to 75 HP is huge, and unreasonabe it seems. The extra weight of the 75/80's seems to nullify the extra HP rating.