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Author Topic:   Marine Onboard Battery Chargers

KSFLOORCOVERING posted 06-02-2006 07:04 AM ET (US)
Give me a recommendation for an onboard battery charger. I have a dual motor/dual battery setup. I have two battery switches running to my batteries. One swith is for port and one for starboard. One battery runs port motor and the other starboard. I can switch both switches to both and it combines both batteries to both motors. Installed like the Boston Whaler factory installation in this picture.
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/dualBattery.html
I would like the charger to charge each battery without hurting my boat's electric system. Can I get an onboard charger to charge each battery individually?
pglein posted 06-02-2006 06:22 PM ET (US)
I'm am not terribly familiar with the different brands or models, but I know that you definitely can get chargers that will independently monitor and charge both of your battery banks to avoid damage. Chargers like this are the industry standard for larger cruising boats. My 36' Express Trawler has seven batteries arranged in four banks. It has one dual-bank charger, and one dual-bank charger/inverter.
jmorgan40 posted 06-02-2006 08:32 PM ET (US)
I am not sure what size boat you have but I just installed a Stealth charging system on my 1988 20 Outrage. Alot of tournament professional Bass fisherman use it. I have had it up and working for about 6 weeks and it is unbelievable. My Outrage has 4 Series 29 deep cycle batteries with a switch. Battery 1 is the cranking battery; battery 2 is the house battery for all the electronics and accessories, batteries 3&4 are for the Lenco Troll-n-Tabs and wired as a 24 volt bank.
Here is how the stealth works...It is connected to your crancking battery and monitors its charge. Your outboard charges your cranking battery, when your cranking battery reaches full charge (approx 13.3 volts) the stealth begins boosting taking the excess charge and boosting it to 20 amps and sends it to the other battery(s). In my case I have the #2 house battery and the 24 volt (2&3) connected to the charger as a 36 volt circuit. The stealth charges those 3 batteries when my cranking battery reaches full charge. Most wiring options are shown in the manual. In my case the owner of Stealth drew me a complete schematic and emailed it to me. He even gave me his number to reach him on the weekend in case I had any questions with the install.
I have all the batteries monitored with guages and the sonar unit. If I troll with the electric motors for about 30 minutes I will see the voltage drop from about 27 volts down to 21 or 22. My house battery running all the electronics will drop down to about 11.9 - 12.1.
When I start my engine to run to a different fishing spot it takes about 5 minutes and the cranking battery reaches 13.3 volts. Then I watch the voltage slowly rise on the house battery and trolling batteries. On a short 15 minute ride the trolling batteries are at 27 volts or more and the house battery is at 13.1-13.5. This is with a 1988 200 hp Yamaha. The newer high output alternators will work faster.
Below is a link to the Stealth site and a link to some pics of my boat so you can see the troll-n-tabs. They have two 84 lb thrust motors so you can see they draw some juice. From what I here this is a much better way to keep your batteries charged because they never really get very low. I am not an electrician or electrical engineer so I am not sure of all the reasons why.
One additional point, they now have a setup that wires to your trailer wiring so you can also have the stealth charging while you are pulling the boat to the ramp. There is also an AC charger that will charge just the cranking battery while the boat is stored than when full the stealth starts charging the other batteries. I installed the AC charger but do not use it since after trolling all day the batteries have been fully charged by the time I make the run to the boat ramp. Alot of info but I hope it helps.
Thanks
Joe
http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/jmorgan40/Outrage%2020/
[Link to non-functional website removed.]
KSFLOORCOVERING posted 06-02-2006 09:08 PM ET (US)
Jmorgan,
Thank you for the info. I have a 23 Outrage with twin 150 Yamahas. Nice boat it looks like you have taken good care of it.
jimh posted 06-03-2006 10:09 AM ET (US)
Battery chargers usually are connected directly to the battery and do not use the vessel's primary distribution wiring. You can obtain 115-VAC operated battery chargers with dual outputs. Each charger connects to a single battery and operates independently.
jmorgan40 posted 06-03-2006 10:21 AM ET (US)
Jim,
You are absolutely correct, but this is newer technology. The guy has a patent on it but really has not begun to market them fully. I know alot of tournament professionals and guides down here that are installing the unit on their boats. I was skeptical but after having it the past 6-8 weeks on my outrage, I am sold on it. I really have no need for the AC charger any longer. on a short 15-20 minute ride all four of my batteries are at full charge. I know you a somewhat of an electrical buff so you might want to read up on it or give the guy a call. I will be running the system on all my boats from now on.
jimh posted 06-04-2006 11:30 AM ET (US)
jmorgan--your set up sound very interesting. I was responding to the original question regarding the availability of chargers with independent outputs.
I'm off now to read more on your system and its design.
jmorgan40 posted 06-05-2006 10:39 AM ET (US)
Jim,
Like I mentioned, I am no electrical engineer so I do not know the details of how it works. I do that the Stealth Unit somehow monitors the conditon of all the batteries and once the Outboard's altinator has charged the first cranking battery, it decides where to send the 40 amps of charge depaending on how many batteries you need to charge.
Once again, I can verify how it worked in real life. I was on the lake all day Sunday fishing. I had trolled on both trolling motors for over 2 hours. I was also running, 2 sonar units, the GPS, stereo, and the VHF. I was down to about 11 volts on the house battery, and about 11.8 on the trolling batteries. I made a 20 minutes run to the ramp. When I pulled the boat out of the water the cranking battery showed 13.4 volts and the other 3 batteries were all at 13.3.
I do know there is an issue of someone attempting to steal his patent and they stole his url. I will contact Dan at Stealth and maybe he can clarify your questions.
Thanks and hopefully we hear from Dan. I I know is the unit works as promised and is incredible.
Joe
Danny Roberts posted 06-08-2006 01:30 PM ET (US)
Jim I am sorry you have had problems getting to our site we are currently checking into that. Our URL was changed in Sept. due to circumstance out of our control and possibly something is wrong but we will get to the bottom of that. Here is my numbers feel free to call me with any questions (888-588-4506 office & 423 595 3108 cell). We have worked with Boston Whaler on several projects both consumer and government. Sergio Atanes has run our products for 7 years and promoted them on many whalers. I have many units on whalers and many Oems use our product and we have been available for 7 years now. We have been wronged by and EX-partner and as said are in litigation concerning those wrong doings. But our plans to service this industry has not changed nor will they be altered by cheating, stealing or wrong doings (Romans 12:19). We know the industry needs very well and understand the industry from servicing it now for those 7 years as well I have owned a boat and fished just about all my life which can’t be said about our counter part. We received Best In Show at the 2002 Bassmasters Classic and at Boatbuilders 2002 from the NMMA an award for our innovation aside with volvo/penta. We are a small company that has grown slow and sure both in product and ability. We offer a 3-year warranty with free tech support number on all our units for easy contact to our customers. Stealth 1 is a full battery maintenance system not just a charger. Any questions on the Stealth 1 Technology we would be more than glad to answer just give us a call ask for Danny. The Stealth 1 Technology does not exceed 13.7 to 14.2 per battery therefore creating no boiling of the battery (no heat) and no crystallizing of the sulfating. When the crank battery reaches 13 volts the Dc smart brain steps up the voltage and controls the output for the health of the batteries allowing the controlled current to the needed batteries. We do 12 to 12, 24, 36 or 48 outputs with a 40-amp pass through totally isolating the batteries and no switching devices just pure output. Giving that unit the ability to charge 8 to 12 batteries. A deep cycle battery is rated in cycles for a suggested life span or usage. The real danger to the battery is the oxidation that takes place when the battery is being cycled and then recharged. If this is done over a discharge rate of 40 to 80 percent then the cycle rating of that battery is taking its suggested route of rating. Stealth 1 technology changes the way the battery is being cycled and does not allow the battery to sulfate nor the charging of that battery to crystallize that oxidation becoming a barrier between the plates and the electrolyte. Which in return is keeping the battery at peak performance. If we took a line 0 to 100 and trolled you might discharge down to 30, move then troll again now down to 60, move then troll now down to 90. Go home and plug in. The chargers then have to put back volts from 80 to 90 percent discharged. Trying to do so in so many hours controlling heat not to gas the batteries and loose electrolyte. Also trying to control heat to keep the batteries from harm but also to give the most they can without loses therefore fighting heat to voltage transfer loses (complicated yeah) but its all we have had for 60 years. Stealth 1 is different, that same line from 0 to 100 with a Stealth 1, discharge to 30 then move you just put the amps back in. Troll again move amps back in. The line with a conventional AC charger is a deep V graph which has to ram the power. With Stealth 1 the graph is small discharges then we top off going back to the original destination. Of course the best thing is that the sulfation is being removed ASAP keeping the plates clean. If on the way back it's still not charged then the tow pack allowing 40 amps while you tow the boat will complete it and if that is not enough the ac 110 is always ready to plug in. As you can see power ASAP back to the batteries. This is step one the concept. Step two is the patented technology in the way we charge. We are a high frequency charger therefore setting an average voltage that controls the heat and allows other wonders to take place as we charge working with the Physics of the battery not to break it down and increase battery life 2 to 3 times. See the web site http://www.stealth1charging.com/Conclusion.html for more info. Be sure and look at Principles and check out the benching graphs.
Danny Roberts Stealth I Charging
I Peter 1:3-7
jmorgan40 posted 06-08-2006 03:52 PM ET (US)
Dnny,
Thanks for the detailed update. Way over my head but I can ensire everyone that the product works great!
Danny Roberts posted 06-09-2006 09:48 AM ET (US)
Our unit is 10.5 pounds total weight with both the AC and DC units. They can be stacked to only take up 6.5 long, 6.25 wide and 3.5 deep or mounted separately. Four (4) wires to setup the 24 or 36 trolling systems to install and 4 to 5 wires on the 12 to 12 systems with house/Aux. Batteries depending on the common ground already being in place. Here is the manual link with full pics and info. Just go to the link and select 2006 24/36 Unit …
http://stealth1charging.com/download/ManualDC20062436111505.pdf
Any question just drop me a line or call.
Danny
Royboy posted 06-11-2006 12:11 AM ET (US)
Interesting Danny. I have a cranking battery that does only that, and a completely separate deep cycle that is for the radios, gps, horn, and fishfinder. Right now, I've just set up the deep cycle with remote posts to use my household 10/2 amp charger. I'm thinking about adding an on-board charger; would I benefit in any way from your product vs. what I'm doing now, vs a "regular" on-board charger?
Thanks,
Roy
Mark 16:16
jmorgan40 posted 06-11-2006 09:08 AM ET (US)
Roy,
It would be much better. I am running 4 batteries on my 20 [unrecognized acronym]. Danny's drew a schematic for me to ensure I wired it correctly. The one cranking battery now keeps the the other three batteries charged. His setup also comes with an AC charger to plug into when stored but I stopped plugging it in since so far the stealth always has all the batteries at 100% by the time you get to the ramp. I love the thing.
jimh posted 06-11-2006 09:56 AM ET (US)
I would like to read about the patented charging technique. May I have the patent number?
Danny Roberts posted 06-17-2006 08:23 AM ET (US)
Royboy … Yes, defiantly we have a 12 to 12 unit that’s put on many aux/house power setups with many Oems to totally isolate the batteries and get you 100 % charge to the batteries while running keeping the battery heat compensated. We ran R&D test on a popular isolator used in the market and the performance was 4 times better. 4 times the draw at sea is a lot of power differences. Remember the unit works with the physics of the batteries not against them to enhance the performance both for charge back as well as longer life if used correctly. Hope this helps
Oh... I for got to mention that the DC "On the Run Charger" could be added to your existing AC shore power units. Our Pro, Max and Extreme units include the AC. Our 2 bank 20 amp smart technology AC is Available as low end stand a lone as well. All units are potted for waterproof and have a 3-year warranty and high visible tech support 800 number with after hours support. By the way the dc and ac will stack together and combined weigh 10.5 lbs 6.5" X 6.25" X 4" deep
Danny Roberts
I Peter 1:3-7

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Author	Topic: Marine Onboard Battery Chargers
KSFLOORCOVERING	posted 06-02-2006 07:04 AM ET (US) Give me a recommendation for an onboard battery charger. I have a dual motor/dual battery setup. I have two battery switches running to my batteries. One swith is for port and one for starboard. One battery runs port motor and the other starboard. I can switch both switches to both and it combines both batteries to both motors. Installed like the Boston Whaler factory installation in this picture. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/dualBattery.html I would like the charger to charge each battery without hurting my boat's electric system. Can I get an onboard charger to charge each battery individually?
pglein	posted 06-02-2006 06:22 PM ET (US) I'm am not terribly familiar with the different brands or models, but I know that you definitely can get chargers that will independently monitor and charge both of your battery banks to avoid damage. Chargers like this are the industry standard for larger cruising boats. My 36' Express Trawler has seven batteries arranged in four banks. It has one dual-bank charger, and one dual-bank charger/inverter.
jmorgan40	posted 06-02-2006 08:32 PM ET (US) I am not sure what size boat you have but I just installed a Stealth charging system on my 1988 20 Outrage. Alot of tournament professional Bass fisherman use it. I have had it up and working for about 6 weeks and it is unbelievable. My Outrage has 4 Series 29 deep cycle batteries with a switch. Battery 1 is the cranking battery; battery 2 is the house battery for all the electronics and accessories, batteries 3&4 are for the Lenco Troll-n-Tabs and wired as a 24 volt bank. Here is how the stealth works...It is connected to your crancking battery and monitors its charge. Your outboard charges your cranking battery, when your cranking battery reaches full charge (approx 13.3 volts) the stealth begins boosting taking the excess charge and boosting it to 20 amps and sends it to the other battery(s). In my case I have the #2 house battery and the 24 volt (2&3) connected to the charger as a 36 volt circuit. The stealth charges those 3 batteries when my cranking battery reaches full charge. Most wiring options are shown in the manual. In my case the owner of Stealth drew me a complete schematic and emailed it to me. He even gave me his number to reach him on the weekend in case I had any questions with the install. I have all the batteries monitored with guages and the sonar unit. If I troll with the electric motors for about 30 minutes I will see the voltage drop from about 27 volts down to 21 or 22. My house battery running all the electronics will drop down to about 11.9 - 12.1. When I start my engine to run to a different fishing spot it takes about 5 minutes and the cranking battery reaches 13.3 volts. Then I watch the voltage slowly rise on the house battery and trolling batteries. On a short 15 minute ride the trolling batteries are at 27 volts or more and the house battery is at 13.1-13.5. This is with a 1988 200 hp Yamaha. The newer high output alternators will work faster. Below is a link to the Stealth site and a link to some pics of my boat so you can see the troll-n-tabs. They have two 84 lb thrust motors so you can see they draw some juice. From what I here this is a much better way to keep your batteries charged because they never really get very low. I am not an electrician or electrical engineer so I am not sure of all the reasons why. One additional point, they now have a setup that wires to your trailer wiring so you can also have the stealth charging while you are pulling the boat to the ramp. There is also an AC charger that will charge just the cranking battery while the boat is stored than when full the stealth starts charging the other batteries. I installed the AC charger but do not use it since after trolling all day the batteries have been fully charged by the time I make the run to the boat ramp. Alot of info but I hope it helps. Thanks Joe http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c366/jmorgan40/Outrage%2020/ [Link to non-functional website removed.]
KSFLOORCOVERING	posted 06-02-2006 09:08 PM ET (US) Jmorgan, Thank you for the info. I have a 23 Outrage with twin 150 Yamahas. Nice boat it looks like you have taken good care of it.
jimh	posted 06-03-2006 10:09 AM ET (US) Battery chargers usually are connected directly to the battery and do not use the vessel's primary distribution wiring. You can obtain 115-VAC operated battery chargers with dual outputs. Each charger connects to a single battery and operates independently.
jmorgan40	posted 06-03-2006 10:21 AM ET (US) Jim, You are absolutely correct, but this is newer technology. The guy has a patent on it but really has not begun to market them fully. I know alot of tournament professionals and guides down here that are installing the unit on their boats. I was skeptical but after having it the past 6-8 weeks on my outrage, I am sold on it. I really have no need for the AC charger any longer. on a short 15-20 minute ride all four of my batteries are at full charge. I know you a somewhat of an electrical buff so you might want to read up on it or give the guy a call. I will be running the system on all my boats from now on.
jimh	posted 06-04-2006 11:30 AM ET (US) jmorgan--your set up sound very interesting. I was responding to the original question regarding the availability of chargers with independent outputs. I'm off now to read more on your system and its design.
jmorgan40	posted 06-05-2006 10:39 AM ET (US) Jim, Like I mentioned, I am no electrical engineer so I do not know the details of how it works. I do that the Stealth Unit somehow monitors the conditon of all the batteries and once the Outboard's altinator has charged the first cranking battery, it decides where to send the 40 amps of charge depaending on how many batteries you need to charge. Once again, I can verify how it worked in real life. I was on the lake all day Sunday fishing. I had trolled on both trolling motors for over 2 hours. I was also running, 2 sonar units, the GPS, stereo, and the VHF. I was down to about 11 volts on the house battery, and about 11.8 on the trolling batteries. I made a 20 minutes run to the ramp. When I pulled the boat out of the water the cranking battery showed 13.4 volts and the other 3 batteries were all at 13.3. I do know there is an issue of someone attempting to steal his patent and they stole his url. I will contact Dan at Stealth and maybe he can clarify your questions. Thanks and hopefully we hear from Dan. I I know is the unit works as promised and is incredible. Joe
Danny Roberts	posted 06-08-2006 01:30 PM ET (US) Jim I am sorry you have had problems getting to our site we are currently checking into that. Our URL was changed in Sept. due to circumstance out of our control and possibly something is wrong but we will get to the bottom of that. Here is my numbers feel free to call me with any questions (888-588-4506 office & 423 595 3108 cell). We have worked with Boston Whaler on several projects both consumer and government. Sergio Atanes has run our products for 7 years and promoted them on many whalers. I have many units on whalers and many Oems use our product and we have been available for 7 years now. We have been wronged by and EX-partner and as said are in litigation concerning those wrong doings. But our plans to service this industry has not changed nor will they be altered by cheating, stealing or wrong doings (Romans 12:19). We know the industry needs very well and understand the industry from servicing it now for those 7 years as well I have owned a boat and fished just about all my life which can’t be said about our counter part. We received Best In Show at the 2002 Bassmasters Classic and at Boatbuilders 2002 from the NMMA an award for our innovation aside with volvo/penta. We are a small company that has grown slow and sure both in product and ability. We offer a 3-year warranty with free tech support number on all our units for easy contact to our customers. Stealth 1 is a full battery maintenance system not just a charger. Any questions on the Stealth 1 Technology we would be more than glad to answer just give us a call ask for Danny. The Stealth 1 Technology does not exceed 13.7 to 14.2 per battery therefore creating no boiling of the battery (no heat) and no crystallizing of the sulfating. When the crank battery reaches 13 volts the Dc smart brain steps up the voltage and controls the output for the health of the batteries allowing the controlled current to the needed batteries. We do 12 to 12, 24, 36 or 48 outputs with a 40-amp pass through totally isolating the batteries and no switching devices just pure output. Giving that unit the ability to charge 8 to 12 batteries. A deep cycle battery is rated in cycles for a suggested life span or usage. The real danger to the battery is the oxidation that takes place when the battery is being cycled and then recharged. If this is done over a discharge rate of 40 to 80 percent then the cycle rating of that battery is taking its suggested route of rating. Stealth 1 technology changes the way the battery is being cycled and does not allow the battery to sulfate nor the charging of that battery to crystallize that oxidation becoming a barrier between the plates and the electrolyte. Which in return is keeping the battery at peak performance. If we took a line 0 to 100 and trolled you might discharge down to 30, move then troll again now down to 60, move then troll now down to 90. Go home and plug in. The chargers then have to put back volts from 80 to 90 percent discharged. Trying to do so in so many hours controlling heat not to gas the batteries and loose electrolyte. Also trying to control heat to keep the batteries from harm but also to give the most they can without loses therefore fighting heat to voltage transfer loses (complicated yeah) but its all we have had for 60 years. Stealth 1 is different, that same line from 0 to 100 with a Stealth 1, discharge to 30 then move you just put the amps back in. Troll again move amps back in. The line with a conventional AC charger is a deep V graph which has to ram the power. With Stealth 1 the graph is small discharges then we top off going back to the original destination. Of course the best thing is that the sulfation is being removed ASAP keeping the plates clean. If on the way back it's still not charged then the tow pack allowing 40 amps while you tow the boat will complete it and if that is not enough the ac 110 is always ready to plug in. As you can see power ASAP back to the batteries. This is step one the concept. Step two is the patented technology in the way we charge. We are a high frequency charger therefore setting an average voltage that controls the heat and allows other wonders to take place as we charge working with the Physics of the battery not to break it down and increase battery life 2 to 3 times. See the web site http://www.stealth1charging.com/Conclusion.html for more info. Be sure and look at Principles and check out the benching graphs. Danny Roberts Stealth I Charging I Peter 1:3-7
jmorgan40	posted 06-08-2006 03:52 PM ET (US) Dnny, Thanks for the detailed update. Way over my head but I can ensire everyone that the product works great!
Danny Roberts	posted 06-09-2006 09:48 AM ET (US) Our unit is 10.5 pounds total weight with both the AC and DC units. They can be stacked to only take up 6.5 long, 6.25 wide and 3.5 deep or mounted separately. Four (4) wires to setup the 24 or 36 trolling systems to install and 4 to 5 wires on the 12 to 12 systems with house/Aux. Batteries depending on the common ground already being in place. Here is the manual link with full pics and info. Just go to the link and select 2006 24/36 Unit … http://stealth1charging.com/download/ManualDC20062436111505.pdf Any question just drop me a line or call. Danny
Royboy	posted 06-11-2006 12:11 AM ET (US) Interesting Danny. I have a cranking battery that does only that, and a completely separate deep cycle that is for the radios, gps, horn, and fishfinder. Right now, I've just set up the deep cycle with remote posts to use my household 10/2 amp charger. I'm thinking about adding an on-board charger; would I benefit in any way from your product vs. what I'm doing now, vs a "regular" on-board charger? Thanks, Roy Mark 16:16
jmorgan40	posted 06-11-2006 09:08 AM ET (US) Roy, It would be much better. I am running 4 batteries on my 20 [unrecognized acronym]. Danny's drew a schematic for me to ensure I wired it correctly. The one cranking battery now keeps the the other three batteries charged. His setup also comes with an AC charger to plug into when stored but I stopped plugging it in since so far the stealth always has all the batteries at 100% by the time you get to the ramp. I love the thing.
jimh	posted 06-11-2006 09:56 AM ET (US) I would like to read about the patented charging technique. May I have the patent number?
Danny Roberts	posted 06-17-2006 08:23 AM ET (US) Royboy … Yes, defiantly we have a 12 to 12 unit that’s put on many aux/house power setups with many Oems to totally isolate the batteries and get you 100 % charge to the batteries while running keeping the battery heat compensated. We ran R&D test on a popular isolator used in the market and the performance was 4 times better. 4 times the draw at sea is a lot of power differences. Remember the unit works with the physics of the batteries not against them to enhance the performance both for charge back as well as longer life if used correctly. Hope this helps Oh... I for got to mention that the DC "On the Run Charger" could be added to your existing AC shore power units. Our Pro, Max and Extreme units include the AC. Our 2 bank 20 amp smart technology AC is Available as low end stand a lone as well. All units are potted for waterproof and have a 3-year warranty and high visible tech support 800 number with after hours support. By the way the dc and ac will stack together and combined weigh 10.5 lbs 6.5" X 6.25" X 4" deep Danny Roberts I Peter 1:3-7