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Author Topic:   Revenge Navigation Lighting

whalercop posted 10-05-2006 11:06 AM ET (US)
JimH or somebody with a Revenge, should the forward masthead light be lit when bow lights are on? The wiring to the forward light on mine is shot, the rear light works, and it stays lit on both positions of the switch. I looked at the wiring diogram in the reference section, and it looks like, the first pull (anchored position) is all-around anchor light, then second pull is just bow, and rear masthead (running position). Am I correct in my assumption, or am I wrong? Also, if the front masthead light is not lit while running, why is the glare shield facing that way? I want to be sure that I get it right, when I rewire it, and I'm not sure it is exactly right now. I appreciate your knowledge for helping me.
jimh posted 10-05-2006 06:12 PM ET (US)
The actual action of the wiring diagram you're referring to does not match your description.
Re your initial question:
The vessel must show the proper lights when underway. It does not matter which position of the switch produces this. See the very long and tedious discussion of this in

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000878.html
The goal of the navigation lamps, their wiring, and the switch that controls them is to allow the vessel to show the proper lights in two distinct situations:
--underway
--at anchor
The article I mention above contains a wiring diagram that shows how to accomplish this for vessels that use a masthead lamp with dual bulbs in combination with a stern lamp.
You must not have a REVENGE Walk-Through. Usually the W-T model has only a single bulb stern/masthead combination lamp ("white all-around" light). This makes the wiring much simpler.
Buckda posted 10-05-2006 07:58 PM ET (US)
When underway, you need to display 360 degrees of white light and your red and green navigation lights.
On a boat with a masthead light, that is accomplished thusly:
Anchoring: displaying 360 degrees of white light (masthead forward, and masthead aft) lighted together.
Underway:
EITHER - Navigation lamps (red/green) illuminated and forward masthead lamp lit and a transom lamp lit.
OR (the case on the Outrages) Navigation lamps illuminated and forward masthead lamp lit and a stern lamp lit facing aft.
The glare shield faces forward because it is there to keep white light from "backscattering" off your deck and into your eyes.
Small boat navigation lighting leaves a lot to be desired, in my opinion.
First, you often see boaters with improper display of navigation lamps. Occasionally you'll see on-the-water authorities with improper navigation lights (I wonder if they ever write tickets over nav lights!)
Second, it is difficult to do a "good" job of achieving the desired visibility for oncoming and other boat traffic, while at the same time keeping the cockpit and helm in relative darkness to preserve night vision of the operator and his/her crew.
Small boats with radar arches and T-Tops are at an advantage here, because the primary cause of disrupted night vision comes from how the boatowner chooses to produce and display the 360 degrees of white light. On a boat with an arch or T-Top, the masthead light can be illuminated in the "all around" position all of the time, and, in most cases, the pilot's night vision is not impeded.
On my 15' Sport, which used the combination bow lamps and an all-around 360 degree white lamp all the time, I was known to occasionally put a sock over the white light to try to dim the cockpit. First of all, it is illegal to do that, second of all (and likely why it is illegal) it is dangerous.
On my 18' Outrage, I set out to fix this problem and ended up with a Radar Arch. It was a drastic and expensive solution to a petty problem, but I've managed to find other uses for the arch along the way.
Most importantly, it's solved the nighttime navigation light problem permanently, which has greatly increased my enjoyment, and the hours I spend on the water at night.
Dave
whalercop posted 10-06-2006 07:47 AM ET (US)
Jim, you are correct on identifying my Revenge as a non-walk thru (I guess I should have stated the model) The boat has no stern light and I guess that it never did. My guess is that the masthead light is supposed to be a 360 light all the time because of the absence of the stern light. Also, my switch is not the 532, and I guess if I had a stern light, then the rear facing light on the masthead light would be off when underway. I need to make a stern light and then rewire everything to work this way. Thanks to you and Dave for your help, and the link to the thread.
jimh posted 10-06-2006 08:56 AM ET (US)
The lights that a vessel is required to show are explained in
NAVIGATION RULES
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules.htm
As long as you have an arrangement of lamps and have them wired to some switches which allow you to produce those lights, you will be fine.
In particular see RULE 23 for definitions of lights to be shown. Discussion of these topics is greatly facilitated if people do not invent new names for the lights. A vessels shows
--sidelights
--masthead light
--stern light
or if the vessel is smaller there are exceptions or other permitted combinations allowed. See:
RULE 23:
POWER-DRIVEN VESSELS UNDERWAY
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule23.htm
These rules are written in very clear and unambiguous language, and you really just need to read them and comply with them. Long discussions about them and personalized interpretations of how to implement them are not authoritative. You need to read the rules, equip your vessel with the proper lighting, and display it when required.
In the case of a small boat, you can do this will two lamps, a combination sidelight lamp and a white all-around lamp.
JMARTIN posted 10-06-2006 10:21 AM ET (US)
whalercop, there is a removable stern light that fits into a bracket by the starboard bilge access. Then you plug in a 2 prong pig tail thingy. I can get you a picture next time I go to the boat, but here is a crummy picture of the light when it is stowed. It is behind the boat hook.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/motor006.jpg
John
whalercop posted 10-06-2006 11:30 AM ET (US)
Thanks again, Jim and John, Jim, I have a chapman's book, that explains all the configuration of the lights, I was just unsure of how the lighting system on this boat was supposed to work. John, there is no pigtail or mounting bracket for the sternlight. There are some brackets under the starboard gunnel that look like that is where the light would be stored. I have already run a new wire back there for use when I make a stern light. Thanks again for your help.
JMARTIN posted 10-06-2006 12:26 PM ET (US)
I found another picture, it shows the light stowed again and the top part of the bracket for it, upper right hand corner. The light slides into the bracket then there is a piece of teak mounted to the deck with a metel cup in it if I remember correctly.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/motor020-1.jpg
John
JMARTIN posted 10-11-2006 01:36 PM ET (US)
Whalercop, I think this is OEM. The mast has a notch in the botton and the base has a bar it fits into so it does not turn. I have no idea what the hole is for in the collar thingy. John
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/101006008.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/101006009.jpg

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Author	Topic: Revenge Navigation Lighting
whalercop	posted 10-05-2006 11:06 AM ET (US) JimH or somebody with a Revenge, should the forward masthead light be lit when bow lights are on? The wiring to the forward light on mine is shot, the rear light works, and it stays lit on both positions of the switch. I looked at the wiring diogram in the reference section, and it looks like, the first pull (anchored position) is all-around anchor light, then second pull is just bow, and rear masthead (running position). Am I correct in my assumption, or am I wrong? Also, if the front masthead light is not lit while running, why is the glare shield facing that way? I want to be sure that I get it right, when I rewire it, and I'm not sure it is exactly right now. I appreciate your knowledge for helping me.
jimh	posted 10-05-2006 06:12 PM ET (US) The actual action of the wiring diagram you're referring to does not match your description. Re your initial question: The vessel must show the proper lights when underway. It does not matter which position of the switch produces this. See the very long and tedious discussion of this in http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000878.html The goal of the navigation lamps, their wiring, and the switch that controls them is to allow the vessel to show the proper lights in two distinct situations: --underway --at anchor The article I mention above contains a wiring diagram that shows how to accomplish this for vessels that use a masthead lamp with dual bulbs in combination with a stern lamp. You must not have a REVENGE Walk-Through. Usually the W-T model has only a single bulb stern/masthead combination lamp ("white all-around" light). This makes the wiring much simpler.
Buckda	posted 10-05-2006 07:58 PM ET (US) When underway, you need to display 360 degrees of white light and your red and green navigation lights. On a boat with a masthead light, that is accomplished thusly: Anchoring: displaying 360 degrees of white light (masthead forward, and masthead aft) lighted together. Underway: EITHER - Navigation lamps (red/green) illuminated and forward masthead lamp lit and a transom lamp lit. OR (the case on the Outrages) Navigation lamps illuminated and forward masthead lamp lit and a stern lamp lit facing aft. The glare shield faces forward because it is there to keep white light from "backscattering" off your deck and into your eyes. Small boat navigation lighting leaves a lot to be desired, in my opinion. First, you often see boaters with improper display of navigation lamps. Occasionally you'll see on-the-water authorities with improper navigation lights (I wonder if they ever write tickets over nav lights!) Second, it is difficult to do a "good" job of achieving the desired visibility for oncoming and other boat traffic, while at the same time keeping the cockpit and helm in relative darkness to preserve night vision of the operator and his/her crew. Small boats with radar arches and T-Tops are at an advantage here, because the primary cause of disrupted night vision comes from how the boatowner chooses to produce and display the 360 degrees of white light. On a boat with an arch or T-Top, the masthead light can be illuminated in the "all around" position all of the time, and, in most cases, the pilot's night vision is not impeded. On my 15' Sport, which used the combination bow lamps and an all-around 360 degree white lamp all the time, I was known to occasionally put a sock over the white light to try to dim the cockpit. First of all, it is illegal to do that, second of all (and likely why it is illegal) it is dangerous. On my 18' Outrage, I set out to fix this problem and ended up with a Radar Arch. It was a drastic and expensive solution to a petty problem, but I've managed to find other uses for the arch along the way. Most importantly, it's solved the nighttime navigation light problem permanently, which has greatly increased my enjoyment, and the hours I spend on the water at night. Dave
whalercop	posted 10-06-2006 07:47 AM ET (US) Jim, you are correct on identifying my Revenge as a non-walk thru (I guess I should have stated the model) The boat has no stern light and I guess that it never did. My guess is that the masthead light is supposed to be a 360 light all the time because of the absence of the stern light. Also, my switch is not the 532, and I guess if I had a stern light, then the rear facing light on the masthead light would be off when underway. I need to make a stern light and then rewire everything to work this way. Thanks to you and Dave for your help, and the link to the thread.
jimh	posted 10-06-2006 08:56 AM ET (US) The lights that a vessel is required to show are explained in NAVIGATION RULES http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules.htm As long as you have an arrangement of lamps and have them wired to some switches which allow you to produce those lights, you will be fine. In particular see RULE 23 for definitions of lights to be shown. Discussion of these topics is greatly facilitated if people do not invent new names for the lights. A vessels shows --sidelights --masthead light --stern light or if the vessel is smaller there are exceptions or other permitted combinations allowed. See: RULE 23: POWER-DRIVEN VESSELS UNDERWAY http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rules/Rule23.htm These rules are written in very clear and unambiguous language, and you really just need to read them and comply with them. Long discussions about them and personalized interpretations of how to implement them are not authoritative. You need to read the rules, equip your vessel with the proper lighting, and display it when required. In the case of a small boat, you can do this will two lamps, a combination sidelight lamp and a white all-around lamp.
JMARTIN	posted 10-06-2006 10:21 AM ET (US) whalercop, there is a removable stern light that fits into a bracket by the starboard bilge access. Then you plug in a 2 prong pig tail thingy. I can get you a picture next time I go to the boat, but here is a crummy picture of the light when it is stowed. It is behind the boat hook. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/motor006.jpg John
whalercop	posted 10-06-2006 11:30 AM ET (US) Thanks again, Jim and John, Jim, I have a chapman's book, that explains all the configuration of the lights, I was just unsure of how the lighting system on this boat was supposed to work. John, there is no pigtail or mounting bracket for the sternlight. There are some brackets under the starboard gunnel that look like that is where the light would be stored. I have already run a new wire back there for use when I make a stern light. Thanks again for your help.
JMARTIN	posted 10-06-2006 12:26 PM ET (US) I found another picture, it shows the light stowed again and the top part of the bracket for it, upper right hand corner. The light slides into the bracket then there is a piece of teak mounted to the deck with a metel cup in it if I remember correctly. http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/motor020-1.jpg John
JMARTIN	posted 10-11-2006 01:36 PM ET (US) Whalercop, I think this is OEM. The mast has a notch in the botton and the base has a bar it fits into so it does not turn. I have no idea what the hole is for in the collar thingy. John http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/101006008.jpg http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d137/jmartin-/101006009.jpg