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Author Topic:   NMEA Interface:Garmin GPSMAP 76CS to Humminbird Matrix 37
MTK posted 03-02-2007 07:28 AM ET (US)   Profile for MTK   Send Email to MTK  
Need assistance with this one. I have set the NMEA In/Out as required in the handheld setup menu, connected the Garmin power/data serial port cable to the Matrix 37 fishfinder NMEA com port. When I power up the Matrix 37 fishfinder I receive a message stating " Starting Inline Test", with no subsequent results. I had previously attempted to use the Humminbird handheld GPS connection cable kit P/N AS HHGAR082 with no success. My GPSMAP 76CS is using NMEA version 3.01. Humminbird connection kit manual notes the Matrix accepts NMEA version 2.20 input @ 4800 baud and listens for NMEA sentences RMC and GGA. In addition the GSA and GSV sentences are used to monitor GPS satellite location and usage. I am assuming the newer NMEA version is not my problem.
Can anyone help with this [connection]?
jimh posted 03-02-2007 08:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The first place to look for a problem is in the physical and electrical level: are you sure you have the GPS receiver OUTPUT properly connected to the fish finder's INPUT?

Also, I am just curious, but what does the fish finder do with the data? Just display it on screen?

jimh posted 03-02-2007 08:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I just browsed through the manual for the Humminbird 37.

http://www.humminbird.com/images/PDF/Matrix10_12_17_20_27_37.pdf

It appears the Humminbird 37 only generates NMEA OUTPUT, no input. Cf. Page 47 of manual:

quote:

NMEA Output turns the NMEA output on or off. This menu choice is available only
when in Advanced User Mode (see Setup Menu Tab: User Mode.)
The following NMEA sentences are output:
DPT- Depth
MTW - Water Temperature
GLL - Lat/Lon Position
GGA - GPS Fix Data
RMC - Recommended Minimum Specific GNSS Data
VTG - Course Over Ground and Ground Speed
ZDA - Time and Date
When navigating, the following NMEA sentences are also output:
APB - Autopilot Sentence B
BWR - Bearing and Distance to Waypoint
RMB - Recommended Minimum Navigation Info

MTK posted 03-02-2007 09:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Connections are dead on...
The reason I want to interface my handheld GPS is to gain the full capability of the Matrix 37 fishfinder. It's no different than Humminbirds optional GPS receiver. And yes, I do have my original Ops. manual for the Matrix 37 and my GARMIN GPSMAP 76CS handhled. I have been in contact with Humminbird customer service @ length, sent the unit in for updates and checks, with no success with respect to my issue. I contacted GARMIN and was told to check for NMEA output with a volt meter. No discrepancies were noted for NMEA output checks, so I know it's not the GPS.
MTK posted 03-02-2007 09:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Interfacing the GPS handheld to the Matrix 37 allows for some advatages...
Fist, is that you gain three views on the Matrix, Bird's eye view, track view and combo view.
Second, is the fact the the Matrix 37 screen is easier to see.
bluewaterpirate posted 03-02-2007 09:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Ensure that the all the units are connected to a common ground.
MTK posted 03-02-2007 10:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
The Matrix 37 is grounded thru the power/ground bus and the GPS in grouned thru the NMEA com port on the Matrix. I previously checked to make sure the Matrix power/ground bus and the NMEA com port share the same ground and found that they do.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-02-2007 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
jimh: It does support NMEA in. There are multiple references
in the manual to display speed if a GPS receiver is attached.

You do have NMEA OUT on the GPS wired to NMEA IN on the
FF, and NMEA IN on the GPS wired to NMEA OUT on the FF?


Chuck

MTK posted 03-02-2007 03:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
yes to all
MTK posted 03-02-2007 03:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
I'am certian the units are wired correctly, as I mentioned before I contine to receive a message stating " Starting Inline Test", with no subsequent results. This message appears on the Matrix 37 screen.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-03-2007 09:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I'd really like to hear some specifics on how you have it
wired, because that's gotta be wrong if the FF won't boot up.
What wire to what wire?

BTW, I posted some info on something very close to your
combo at http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000852.html


Chuck

MTK posted 03-05-2007 11:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Chuck,

If you email me I will send you the pinouts for the Humminbird NMEA receptical.

GARMIN power/data serial port cable connections are as follows...
(GPS power)Red wire = pin #1, (GPS ground) Black wire = pin #2, (GPS NMEA - Out) Brown wire = pin #5, and (GPS NMEA - In) White = pin #6

Connections are dead on...
The reason I want to interface my handheld GPS is to gain the full capability of the Matrix 37 fishfinder. It's no different than Humminbirds optional GPS receiver. And yes, I do have my original Ops. manual for the Matrix 37 and my GARMIN GPSMAP 76CS handhled. I have been in contact with Humminbird customer service @ length, sent the unit in for updates and checks, with no success, with respect to my issue. I contacted GARMIN and was told to check for NMEA output with a volt meter. No discrepancies were noted for NMEA output checks, so I know it's not the GPS.

MTK posted 03-05-2007 11:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Chuck,

FYI,
I have emailed you the pinout diagram.

Sorry for the duplicate information... I have about ten different forums I'am working on to try and resolve this issue.

bluewaterpirate posted 03-05-2007 11:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
MTK .......

Does the accessory connector cable have three wires. I haven't been able to find the install guide. If wo one of those wires should be a ground wire. It has to be connected to a ground source for the two units to pass NMEA data. That's in addition to the power source grounds. Is this the the cable?

[ur]http://www.aubrett.com/auction/marine/crw/16127/16127.jpg[/url]

bluewaterpirate posted 03-05-2007 11:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Sorry here's a working link ....

http://www.aubrett.com/auction/marine/crw/16127/16127.jpg

MTK posted 03-05-2007 12:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
bluewaterpirate ,

My current wiring configuation is a direct connection, for test purposes only, using the GARMIN optional power/data serial port cable. I have tried the Humminbird handheld GPS connection kit (plug and play), with no success. So at this time there is no additional accessory wiring in the picture.
I do have the manual for the Humminbird handheld GPS connection kit that shows the specific wire to wire connections.

MTK posted 03-05-2007 12:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
bluewaterpirate,

Are you saying I need to run two different grounds?
I'm not sure I understand this...

AS I pereviusly stated...
The Matrix 37 is grounded thru the power/ground bus and the GPS NMEA serial port is grouned thru the NMEA com port on the Matrix. I previously checked with a DVM to make sure the Matrix power/ground bus and the Matrix NMEA com port share the same ground and found that they do.

bluewaterpirate posted 03-05-2007 12:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
That's what I'm saying .... if one of those three wires on the accessory cable is black or listed as a ground then it has to be connected to a grounding source to pass NMEA data.
MTK posted 03-05-2007 12:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
I'm going to email you the Humminbird NMEA pinout diagram...
See above, for current wiring congfiguration
MTK posted 03-05-2007 12:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
bluewaterpirate,

Notice pin #2 = common ground. The black wire from my Garmin power NMEA/data serial port cable is currently connected to this common ground.

Pin #2 is grounded thru the Matrix power/ground bus, not shown here. So, as you can see I have both the GPS and Matrix 37 gounnded. So If I need to ground anything else, I do not understand.

Chuck Tribolet posted 03-05-2007 05:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Here's how it should be wired:

FF Pin 1 to +12
FF Pin 2 to GPS Ground (Black) and to "ground" (the minus side of the electical system)
FF Pin 5 (Serial Input) to GPS Serial Data Out (brown)
FF Pin 5 (NMEA Serial Output) to GPS Serial Data In (white)

It's best to run the data wires and the grounds together, and
even better to give them a slight twist (1 or 2 turns per
foot) together. This will help reduce noise.

Be sure the GPS is setup for NMEA in/NMEA Out 4800 bps.


Chuck

Chuck Tribolet posted 03-05-2007 05:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
There's a typo in the last line. it should read:

FF Pin 1 to +12
FF Pin 2 to GPS Ground (Black) and to "ground" (the minus side of the electical system)
FF Pin 5 (Serial Input) to GPS Serial Data Out (brown)
FF Pin 6 (NMEA Serial Output) to GPS Serial Data In (white)


Chuck

MTK posted 03-06-2007 08:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
That is exactly how it's been wired. I'm starting to wonder if I should scrap the entire idea. This has been very frustrating. It's a simple setup...

The units are just not communicating.

gss036 posted 03-06-2007 01:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
MTK, why don't you just buy a Humminbird AS-GR16 antenna and plug it in. I just ordered one from ProSource, delivered, they are about $92.00. Save your self all the hassle.
You can get the older model, (a 12 channel vs 16) from Cabela's bargin cave for $69+shipping. I just bought a closeout Humminbird Matrix 17 and I will have sounder & GPS for about $225.00.
I also have a Garmin 176C Blue chart. This was just for a saftey in case I have problems w/ the Garmin. We get caught in some heavy thick for here once in a while.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-06-2007 06:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
MTK: try this. Unplug the cable from the GPS. Leave it
plugged into the fishfinder. Power on the fishfinder. Does
it still lockup the same way? If it does, triple check
your wiring, something is haywire there. If it doesn't,
something is REALLY haywire in the GPS. Have you tried
hooking it up to a computer with Garmin MapSource or somesuch?


Chuck

MTK posted 03-07-2007 12:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
gss036,

Im not interested in spending another $100.00 for the optional Humminbird GPS receiver, when I have a $500.00 GARMIN GPS/receiver.

Thanks for the input,
MTK

MTK posted 03-07-2007 12:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Chuck,

Another GPS/MAtrix connection attempt was mayed the other day, with no lockups. The only differance was I did not connect to pin #1 and pin #6 on the Matrix NMEA com port. The connection attempt was still unsuccessfull.

I have interfaced the GPS to my desktop computer using MapSource thru the USB com port for map and waypoint transfers. My last attempt will be to try and interface the GPS to the computer thru the GPS serial data port and check for "Real Time Tracking" thru the MapSource program. I need to obtain DB-9 female connector and to haul my desktop computer outside of the house for this final check.

I'm sure you are familiar with this, but here is a link for the setup...
http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/interface.htm

gss036 posted 03-08-2007 08:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
Sorry about even trying to help. I just went through the same thing as I also have a $700.00 Garmin GPS. :-)
MTK posted 03-09-2007 11:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
I was able to test the GPS today thru MapSource. "Real Time Tracking" was noted thru the GPS serial port but only in GARMIN MODE. NMEA MODE was attempted but the Mapsource program could not detect the GPS is this mode.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

bluewaterpirate posted 03-09-2007 11:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Did you turn the NMEA port on there should be an off or on choice? Check the baud rates and there might also be a slection for oneway of twoway NMEA comms
MTK posted 03-09-2007 11:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
No NMEA option found within the MapSource "Real Time Tracking" program. It only calls for "Select drive" option... USB or com ports (with auto detection).

Checked the baud rates and found OK... No one-way or two- way NMEA com options found, in either com port properties or MapSource. I'm assuming that MapSource interfaces with NMEA Mode and not just GARMIN mode.

bluewaterpirate posted 03-09-2007 12:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
I use Map Source and know of no embedded NMEA functionality in the that software package.
bluewaterpirate posted 03-09-2007 12:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
I believe with your model Garmin if you have the unit connected via USB connectivity that protocol will override any other protocol.
MTK posted 03-09-2007 01:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Yes, you are correct!!

I found the info in the BlueChart manual stating, "Select GARMIN MODE and NOT NMEA MODE".

I'm going to perform a test thru the "Hyperterminal", on my computer, to check and view the NMEA sentences. Please see my other post for the IRL link.

Thanks,
MTK

Chuck Tribolet posted 03-09-2007 07:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Mapsource speaks (and hears) Garmin protocol only, not NMEA.


Chuck

MTK posted 03-14-2007 09:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Hey gang,

The good news is... the hyperterminal test indicated that the GPS NMEA sentences are steaming out. So @ this point it appears the faults are with the Humminbird Matrix 37.
I just don't know if the Matrix has a hardware, sofware or compatbility issue. It would be nice to test the unit with the optional GPS receiver from Humminbird.
As I previously stated, I NO NOT want to spend another $100.00.

MTK posted 03-22-2007 11:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for MTK  Send Email to MTK     
Final Notes,

I receiced an email from Humminbirds engineer which stated the following...

Even though other Garmin units will work with the same Humminbird unit, even tried another Garmin GPS Map 76cs and it still did not work. This has something to do with the NMEA data format that Garmin started using with their new unit a year or two back as we had no problems with Garmin units made before than. I understand that the NMEA 0183 specification is a bit loose in its interpretation; so while Garmin and Humminbird may both be right in their/our interpretation of NMEA 0183 – our products may still not work together when connected.
First off; I would only connect to the NMEA Ground and NMEA Input of the Matrix 37. Disconnect all other wires at that connection.

Secondly; you may want to try another Garmin GPS Map 76cs, just in case yours is really not outputting any data.

Thirdly; Can you record some of the NMEA Output data from your Garmin GPS Map 76cs and send it to us. You can do this by connecting your Garmin unit to a computer. When we get this information, it may or may not be possible for one of our Engineers to alter our unit software to work with whatever Garmin has done to their NMEA data Output – no promises made here and it could take 3 – 6 months if it happens at all.

I plan on mailing them a copy of the NMEA sentences captured during the hyperterminal test to see if they can modify their NMEA software.

Thank you all for your support regarding this matter. When and if any corrective action comes from Humminbird, I'll be sure to post here.

Thanks Again,

MTK

Mad Dan posted 12-19-2008 11:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Mad Dan  Send Email to Mad Dan     
Hi All,

Came across this page during my own stressful experience re:
connecting GPS to a Matrix20.

As frequently happens, the thread dies when a solution is found, but there is no close off post, so here it is (for my situation anyway)

I had no luck until I upgraded to the latest M20 firmware.

In the hope that it can help others, I offer the following...

M20 ------ DB9 (GPS lead)
1 5 (Gnd)
2 4 (Tx)
5 3 (Rx)

This works on the following Garmins:
Etrex V2.19 firmware
GPS12xl V2.01 firmware
60CSx Firmware not known

NMEA versions range from 1.5 through to 2.2(I think from memory


To connect to the PC, I used a bodge of a GPS12xl lead and the following conns:

M20 -------- 12xl Round plug
1 Tx
2 Rx
5 Gnd

Now have full GPS functionality using any of the above GPS units :-)

Thanks to all who contributed to the previous discussion for jogging my dodgy synaptic circuits.

Hope this helps someone else.
Mad Dan out.

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