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Author Topic:   Battery Type

MBW posted 04-22-2008 09:22 PM ET (US)
I am replacing the battery in my 130 Sport. Can I use a deep cycle battery rather than a starting battery? Thanks
contender posted 04-22-2008 10:42 PM ET (US)
Go to Walmart, purchase the best marine battery, warranty is for 2 years, trade it back in, new battery every 2 years, no cost to you. Good luck
Bella con23 posted 04-22-2008 10:45 PM ET (US)
There are three basic types of batteries used for marine applications.
The first is the starting type battery. This battery has the highest available starting current due to the "sponge" or grid lead plate design. This design gives the battery a larger surface per plate therefore a higher starting current.
The second type is the deep cycle battery. This design uses a thicker, solid plate and will produce a more constant voltage and current over the charge to discharge state. Because the plates of the deep cycle have less lead acid exposure surface than that of the starter type battery, it will not have the same available instant high current the sponge or grid type plate of the starter type battery.
The third type is a marine labeled battery and is a hybrid of the starter and deep cycle types. The plate design falls between the sponge type of the starter battery and the thick solid plate of the deep cycle.
The starter battery is designed to be discharged no lower than 80% of its capacity, while the hybrid "marine" battery can be safely discharged to 50%, and the deep cycle can be discharged to 20% of its rated capacity many times over before permanent damage occurs.
If you don't have a situation where the battery would be completely discharge as with using a electric trolling motor, the marine battery would probably best suit your needs.
Joe
jimh posted 04-22-2008 11:25 PM ET (US)
Joe--very nice summary.
jimh posted 04-23-2008 12:41 AM ET (US)
Read this data sheet from DEKA, an American battery manufacturer:
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/1081.pdf
It gives an excellent overview of the different features of five lead-acid battery types.
davej14 posted 04-24-2008 05:27 AM ET (US)
A couple of things are troubling about the Deka summary:
1. Dual purpose capabilities for AGM is given a 4 rating. Not all AGM batteries are dual purpose batteries. I guess we assume that this chart is based upon a Dual Purpose AGM battery technology.
2. Storage shelf life for a flooded cell starting battery is given a 4 rating. No way is a flooded cell design going to be as good as an AGM for shelf life.
3. Water retention of a flooded cell starting battery is the same as the sealed types ?
4. Water replacement for a flooded cell starting battery is given a 0 rating ?
5. Terminal corrosion resistance? I see no reason why this should vary with cell design unless different materials are used for the terminals. As far as I know they are all lead.
Deka should not be too proud of this "Technical" Bulletin.
MBW posted 04-24-2008 07:50 AM ET (US)
I had a Deka starting battery that is now dead and I might possibly replace with an Interstate Deep Cycle Marine. Will this work?
jimh posted 04-24-2008 08:33 AM ET (US)
Terminal corrosion is affected by the battery venting. A battery that is open to the atmosphere can vent fumes. Also, there is always some liquid under the filler caps of my flooded cell. It probably contributes to corrosion, or at least to the potential for corrosion.
One point in favor of sealed batteries like an AGM for use in saltwater: saltwater added to the sulphuric acid of a flooded cell battery can produce chlorine gas, which is dangerous. However, there are decades of use of flooded cell batteries in saltwater environments with literally no mention of anyone ever being harmed by chlorine gas, at least that I can recall.
Hey, DEKA is just a battery manufacturer--you expect them to know as much about batteries as some on-line experts?
davej14 posted 04-24-2008 08:43 PM ET (US)
MBW
Your main concern should be that the MCA rating of the replacement battery is at least what is called for in your motor's owners manual. A deep cycle or dual purpose battery that meets this criteria will be more robust than a starting battery.
Chuck Tribolet posted 04-24-2008 10:24 PM ET (US)
A 13' is going to have a small engine. I suspect a motorcycle
battery would start it.

My take on battery types:
If the battery JUST starts the engine, a starting battery
or a dual-purpose battery will do. I'd go with a dual-purpose
because I had an incident a while back that was engine-only
(trim-tilt switch failed closed and down, ran the dual-purpose
battery DEAD flat, my charger revived it. I don't think a
starting battery would have survived that.)
If the battery starts the engine AND runs the electronics,
get a dual-purpose battery, esp. with the small motor on your
13.
If the battery only runs the electronics, or you have an
electric trolling motor, get a deep cycle battery.
If you have an electric trolling motor, you need (at least)
two batteries.

Chuck
swist posted 04-26-2008 07:53 AM ET (US)
I agree with Chuck, I see no reason for a starting-only battery as the only one on a boat. You might save a few bucks over a dual-purpose but you don't really need the few CCA you are giving up in favor of a more robust battery - if a starting battery is drained down for whatever reason, its life is significantly shortened, even through that might not be immediately apparent if it charges back up.
MBW posted 04-27-2008 10:16 PM ET (US)
I went with an Interstate Deep Cycle Marine battery. I hope this one will suit my needs.
jimh posted 04-28-2008 09:47 AM ET (US)
For a given physical battery size, a cranking battery will be able to deliver more power for engine starting than a deep cycle design. Since the primary purpose of the battery on most boats is to start the engine, it seems reasonable to me that one selects a battery optimized for engine starting. Once the engine starts the charging system will supply sufficient current to run any electrical accessory.
If you routinely operate electronics and other electrical loads for long periods when the engine is not running, then a deep-cycle battery may be more appropriate.
To get a battery which is the same physical size as a conventional flooded cell cranking battery--also called a starting, lighting, and ignition or SLI battery--you often have to move into a more expensive battery of specialized construction. The AGM batteries can provide almost the same cranking power as a similar size flooded cell, but they cost twice as much or more.
Yiddil posted 05-06-2008 08:28 PM ET (US)
Bob sent me info on the Excide Battery but after considering shipping and sulfuric acid adding and the like, I choose to just get a battery with the name of "Dyna Thrust" All I know is its a 1000 crank starting battery exactly like the one my boat came with. I tryed Walmart and Costco and all those others checking on all the differences and what they carried and in the end, i just went back to my Whaler dealer and bought the same battery and it was cheaper than all the rest by far...I might add I have had the other dyna thurst going on 5 years:) and she is just fine. But from all that I found out, cranking was better than deep cycle for starting and deep cycle was better for electric trolling motors...(at least thats what I was told)

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Author	Topic: Battery Type
MBW	posted 04-22-2008 09:22 PM ET (US) I am replacing the battery in my 130 Sport. Can I use a deep cycle battery rather than a starting battery? Thanks
contender	posted 04-22-2008 10:42 PM ET (US) Go to Walmart, purchase the best marine battery, warranty is for 2 years, trade it back in, new battery every 2 years, no cost to you. Good luck
Bella con23	posted 04-22-2008 10:45 PM ET (US) There are three basic types of batteries used for marine applications. The first is the starting type battery. This battery has the highest available starting current due to the "sponge" or grid lead plate design. This design gives the battery a larger surface per plate therefore a higher starting current. The second type is the deep cycle battery. This design uses a thicker, solid plate and will produce a more constant voltage and current over the charge to discharge state. Because the plates of the deep cycle have less lead acid exposure surface than that of the starter type battery, it will not have the same available instant high current the sponge or grid type plate of the starter type battery. The third type is a marine labeled battery and is a hybrid of the starter and deep cycle types. The plate design falls between the sponge type of the starter battery and the thick solid plate of the deep cycle. The starter battery is designed to be discharged no lower than 80% of its capacity, while the hybrid "marine" battery can be safely discharged to 50%, and the deep cycle can be discharged to 20% of its rated capacity many times over before permanent damage occurs. If you don't have a situation where the battery would be completely discharge as with using a electric trolling motor, the marine battery would probably best suit your needs. Joe
jimh	posted 04-22-2008 11:25 PM ET (US) Joe--very nice summary.
jimh	posted 04-23-2008 12:41 AM ET (US) Read this data sheet from DEKA, an American battery manufacturer: http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/1081.pdf It gives an excellent overview of the different features of five lead-acid battery types.
davej14	posted 04-24-2008 05:27 AM ET (US) A couple of things are troubling about the Deka summary: 1. Dual purpose capabilities for AGM is given a 4 rating. Not all AGM batteries are dual purpose batteries. I guess we assume that this chart is based upon a Dual Purpose AGM battery technology. 2. Storage shelf life for a flooded cell starting battery is given a 4 rating. No way is a flooded cell design going to be as good as an AGM for shelf life. 3. Water retention of a flooded cell starting battery is the same as the sealed types ? 4. Water replacement for a flooded cell starting battery is given a 0 rating ? 5. Terminal corrosion resistance? I see no reason why this should vary with cell design unless different materials are used for the terminals. As far as I know they are all lead. Deka should not be too proud of this "Technical" Bulletin.
MBW	posted 04-24-2008 07:50 AM ET (US) I had a Deka starting battery that is now dead and I might possibly replace with an Interstate Deep Cycle Marine. Will this work?
jimh	posted 04-24-2008 08:33 AM ET (US) Terminal corrosion is affected by the battery venting. A battery that is open to the atmosphere can vent fumes. Also, there is always some liquid under the filler caps of my flooded cell. It probably contributes to corrosion, or at least to the potential for corrosion. One point in favor of sealed batteries like an AGM for use in saltwater: saltwater added to the sulphuric acid of a flooded cell battery can produce chlorine gas, which is dangerous. However, there are decades of use of flooded cell batteries in saltwater environments with literally no mention of anyone ever being harmed by chlorine gas, at least that I can recall. Hey, DEKA is just a battery manufacturer--you expect them to know as much about batteries as some on-line experts?
davej14	posted 04-24-2008 08:43 PM ET (US) MBW Your main concern should be that the MCA rating of the replacement battery is at least what is called for in your motor's owners manual. A deep cycle or dual purpose battery that meets this criteria will be more robust than a starting battery.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 04-24-2008 10:24 PM ET (US) A 13' is going to have a small engine. I suspect a motorcycle battery would start it. My take on battery types: If the battery JUST starts the engine, a starting battery or a dual-purpose battery will do. I'd go with a dual-purpose because I had an incident a while back that was engine-only (trim-tilt switch failed closed and down, ran the dual-purpose battery DEAD flat, my charger revived it. I don't think a starting battery would have survived that.) If the battery starts the engine AND runs the electronics, get a dual-purpose battery, esp. with the small motor on your 13. If the battery only runs the electronics, or you have an electric trolling motor, get a deep cycle battery. If you have an electric trolling motor, you need (at least) two batteries. Chuck
swist	posted 04-26-2008 07:53 AM ET (US) I agree with Chuck, I see no reason for a starting-only battery as the only one on a boat. You might save a few bucks over a dual-purpose but you don't really need the few CCA you are giving up in favor of a more robust battery - if a starting battery is drained down for whatever reason, its life is significantly shortened, even through that might not be immediately apparent if it charges back up.
MBW	posted 04-27-2008 10:16 PM ET (US) I went with an Interstate Deep Cycle Marine battery. I hope this one will suit my needs.
jimh	posted 04-28-2008 09:47 AM ET (US) For a given physical battery size, a cranking battery will be able to deliver more power for engine starting than a deep cycle design. Since the primary purpose of the battery on most boats is to start the engine, it seems reasonable to me that one selects a battery optimized for engine starting. Once the engine starts the charging system will supply sufficient current to run any electrical accessory. If you routinely operate electronics and other electrical loads for long periods when the engine is not running, then a deep-cycle battery may be more appropriate. To get a battery which is the same physical size as a conventional flooded cell cranking battery--also called a starting, lighting, and ignition or SLI battery--you often have to move into a more expensive battery of specialized construction. The AGM batteries can provide almost the same cranking power as a similar size flooded cell, but they cost twice as much or more.
Yiddil	posted 05-06-2008 08:28 PM ET (US) Bob sent me info on the Excide Battery but after considering shipping and sulfuric acid adding and the like, I choose to just get a battery with the name of "Dyna Thrust" All I know is its a 1000 crank starting battery exactly like the one my boat came with. I tryed Walmart and Costco and all those others checking on all the differences and what they carried and in the end, i just went back to my Whaler dealer and bought the same battery and it was cheaper than all the rest by far...I might add I have had the other dyna thurst going on 5 years:) and she is just fine. But from all that I found out, cranking was better than deep cycle for starting and deep cycle was better for electric trolling motors...(at least thats what I was told)