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  Shock from "live" Live Well

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Author Topic:   Shock from "live" Live Well
lovetowhale posted 05-05-2009 07:33 PM ET (US)   Profile for lovetowhale   Send Email to lovetowhale  
I have a older Boston Whaler REVENGE with a fish well in the back of the boat in the splash area. When I have water in the well and you stick your hand in the water you get a shock. Do you have any idea way this is? There are no pumps of any kind hooked up to the well. The water goes in the well. If I catch fish I pull the plug and fill the well up.
fishgutz posted 05-05-2009 07:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for fishgutz  Send Email to fishgutz     
Do you get a shock every time? If only occasionally, it could be static. Or an electric eel.
jimh posted 05-05-2009 07:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
When you get a shock:

--is the motor running?

--are you at sea?

--are you tied to the dock?


lovetowhale posted 05-05-2009 08:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
Motor running at drift at sea every time.
jimh posted 05-05-2009 08:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Shut off the motor and see if the shock is still there.

If the shock stops with the motor stopping, the shock is probably coming from leakage from the KILL switch circuit. The KILL switch circuit can have several hundred volts.

Tell us about your motor.

lovetowhale posted 05-05-2009 08:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
The concern is that of the fuel tank.I posted before about the grounding of the tank.The tank is grounded to a screw on the trans.below the water line.That fuel tank is always sitting in a inch or two of water.So I'm just concerned that something bad good happen "explosion" no more fishing.
lovetowhale posted 05-05-2009 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
The motor is a 2004 140 4 stroke with 120 original hours professionally installed
lovetowhale posted 05-05-2009 09:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
That's a suzuki 140 by the way
jimh posted 05-06-2009 02:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I am not familiar with the electrical system on your motor, so I can't speculate on what the source of the leakage could be.

Is the shock sensation strong? Or is it just a slight electrical feeling when you put your hand in the water of the livewell? If a strong shock, the voltage has to be fairly high. If it is just a slight sensation of an electrical stimulus, it could be just some 12-volt battery current leaking. Also, different people have different sensitivities on their skin to electrical current. Is the shock sensation something everyone can feel?

lovetowhale posted 05-06-2009 07:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
jim actually its just a sensation. Also when its does happen and my friend is with me he does not feel it.
lovetowhale posted 05-06-2009 07:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
small sensation
Bella con23 posted 05-06-2009 07:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
Also, what are you hanging onto when you reach in to the water?
You may be completing a circuit between a "live" rail and the water to which you may be able to measure with a higher quality volt-ohm meter.
Joe
jimh posted 05-06-2009 11:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The threshold of sensation for electrical stimulus of the skin is about 0.001-ampere or 1-milliampere. If we assume the source voltage is 14.5-volts (or the output of a battery charger on an outboard motor), we can find the resistance needed to permit this current flow:

R = E/I

R = 14.5/0.001

R = 14,500 ohms

Bella con23 posted 05-06-2009 01:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
I found this interesting site on the subject of body resistance. If you scroll about halfway through you will see a chart of resistance measurements under various conditions. One being hand immersed in water.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_3/4.html

hauptjm posted 05-06-2009 03:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
What effect, positive or negative (excuse the pun), does this have on your bait?
Bella con23 posted 05-06-2009 09:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
It would not have any effect on the bait in the tank. Kind of like the bird sitting on a 13 thousand volt wire. There is no continuation of the circuit.

That is why I asked what lovetowhale was touching when reaching into the water to complete the circuit.

If the lovetowhaler was standing on a dry deck not touching anything but the water, he would not feel any sensation.
Joe

crabby posted 05-06-2009 10:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
Do you have a sonar running? I've gotten shocked when I have placed my hand in the water near the transducer and had the sonar cranked up all the way.
hauptjm posted 05-06-2009 11:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Bella con23, when he does stick his hand in the water, and completes the circuit, are not the fish in the medium (water) that is both a part of the circuit and subject to the same effect as he is? Just wondering!

Also as an aside, I teach my kids and ask my fishing partners to never put their hands in the baitwell. If you happen to have sunscreen and some other unfriendly substance on your hand, it will transfer to the well and reduce the life of the bait. Only a small bait net is allowed to scoop bait, no hands!

Bella con23 posted 05-07-2009 07:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
hauptjm - If lovetowhale places his hand in the water it would not affect the fish who are part of the conductor on one side.

It would be the equivalent someone grabbing the 13 thousand volt wire 3 feet away from the bird sitting on it. The bird would not feel any current flow but the someone would be fried.

I would think that the bait would only feel a electrical current as it was pulled from the water and only if it was held by its tail as it is being lifted and for that split second the bait becomes the conductor between lovetowhale's fingers and the water.

I agree with your assessment of the sunscreen. My understanding is the fish have a sense of smell 10 thousand time greater then the average dog.
Joe

Liteamorn posted 05-07-2009 02:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Liteamorn  Send Email to Liteamorn     
So THATS why the bait fish run like hell and are so hard to catch when I stick my hand in there!
Bella con23 posted 05-07-2009 04:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
And you thought it was the threat of being eaten by a striper!
lovetowhale posted 05-09-2009 01:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
Its a mazing where some questions lead to on this site.I'm redoing some wiring on the boat and relocating the ground wire on the fuel tank. I'll let you know if things change.I have two hand holes in the fish well that lead to the bottom mounting bolts of the engine.When water is in the well the level is about halfway up on them.If water was in that void between the hand holes and the transom and the bolts were submerged in water could that carry a charge into the well?
Bella con23 posted 05-09-2009 08:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
lovetowhale - Can you post any pictures of the tank and its surround? It's a little hard to visualize.
Joe
lovetowhale posted 05-09-2009 08:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
Joe thank you can I send you the pics by email and you post them.Let me know.or maybe you can walk me though it.
Bella con23 posted 05-09-2009 09:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
No problem. I'll be happy to do both.
Joe
dfmcintyre posted 05-10-2009 05:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Interesting. Any chance you've got a digital VOM meter and could hold one probe, and drop the other in the water for a reading?

Jim, your the electrical guru...would that work?

Don

Bella con23 posted 05-10-2009 08:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
Here you go lovetowhale - http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e336/Metuchen/Lovetowhale/IMG00084.jpg
lovetowhale posted 05-10-2009 01:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for lovetowhale  Send Email to lovetowhale     
Joe good looking out.Thank you

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