Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Small Boat Electrical
  Report: Garmin Bids For U.K.'s Raymarine

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Report: Garmin Bids For U.K.'s Raymarine
themclos posted 08-16-2009 09:40 PM ET (US)   Profile for themclos   Send Email to themclos  
The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Garmin has made an offer for Raymarine.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ garmin-makes-takeover-bid-for-uks-raymarine-2009-08-16

I have not seen any other reports about this, but it will be interesting to see if this comes to pass.

jimh posted 08-17-2009 08:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The relative valuation of these two firms is quite disparate: GARMIN is valued at $2-billon-US, and RAYMARINE at $17-million. This will be like a whale swallowing a bait fish. GARMIN is over one-hundred times larger.
themclos posted 08-17-2009 12:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for themclos  Send Email to themclos     
I had not realized the difference in size of these 2 companies.

According to Reuters, and others, Raymarine has responded to the rumors and has stated that discussions are underway with several parties which could lead to a possible sale.

Apparently, Garmin has plenty of cash on hand.

Given how strongly people feel about particular brands of marine electronics, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

jimh posted 08-17-2009 01:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
It could be an interesting situation if GARMIN takes over RAYMARINE. Without any real research, my impression is that Garmin has limited expertise with SONAR and other marine-only electronics, whereas Raymarine has a history of expertise in marine-only electronics.

Also, Raymarine is based in the United Kingdom, giving them perhaps a more global view of the marine electronics business. Also, it is my opinion that old players like Raymarine seems to be also focused on commercial marine electronics for larger vessels. The techniques they develop in more sophisticated electronics for larger vessels eventually come into their recreational products.

There has also been consolidation in the marine electronics industry, with NAVICO taking over many brands. With strong competition and a lot of money needed on constant research and development of new products to remain competitive, the marine electronics business may not be viable for a smaller company like Raymarine.

hauptjm posted 08-17-2009 05:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Soundings Trade Today, reported the same information. I wonder if Raymarine is in financial trouble? Certainly, I was surprised that Raymarine was as small a company as they are.
glen e posted 08-17-2009 05:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
Raymarine has no business in the big boat stuff. They are done at 50 feet. They don't even have a big boat division, like Furuno Hi-seas or Simrad Fisheries. Their downfall is just being a small boat marine electronics company with no strong position in auto, aviation or backpacking markets. Garmin will buy them soon if they have not already.
hauptjm posted 08-17-2009 07:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
I can only comment on their recent product lines, and I must say I was very impressed with what I saw. I used the E-Series multifunction set-up on a 28 ft. center console while fishing for White Marlin, and it was accurate and very user friendly. I hope it works out.
jimh posted 08-17-2009 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
glen e writes:

quote:
"[Raymarine's] downfall is just being a small boat marine electronics company...."

Raymarine products and prices:

G190 Display = $12,000
GPM-4000 Processor Module = $5,400
12-kW Super-Hi-Def RADAR = $9,500
GPS Sensor = $365
DSM4000 SONAR = $2,800

TOTAL System Price = $30,065

Sounds like a bit much for a small boat.

glen e posted 08-17-2009 08:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
$30K is nothing for a Big boat. We routinely do $100K refits using this type of stuff:

http://www.furunousa.com/Furuno/Rooms/
DisplayPages/LayoutInitial?Container=com.webridge.entity.Entity
[OID[02B95EBBA4463F4086438AEEF4030D36]]

Ray has none of that. Even on the great lakes.

And in your little list above a 12kw radar is not even big enough for a 40 foot sportfish. Minimum for seeing birds the right way is 25K like this:

http://www.furunousa.com/Furuno/Rooms/DisplayPages/
LayoutInitial?Product=com.webridge.entity.Entity
[OID[6EC597E78134564B8BE5C4E92938463E]]&Container=com.webridge.entity.Entity
[OID[537C78FAAB480943850E6033CD4B74EF]]

and let's not make this a "Jihad" thread - I sell ray every day and love them but $50K worth of radars which genrates great profit for a company, is never a Raymarine sale. Thay ain't gonna make it selling C120 wides. Garmin is going with a professional series next year.

A sampling of my companie's installs are here. Find the Ray stuff:

http://www.elec-unlimited.com/smf/index.php?board=2.0

BTW, we were the #1 Premier dealer in the US for Ray in 2008.

jimh posted 08-17-2009 08:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Glen--This forum is titled "SMALL BOAT ELECTRONICS." In that context, a $30,000 electronics package is very much a big-boat package,

You live in a elite world of Florida gold-plated yachts. We live in a world of 17-footers that are 30 years old. Sorry you read "my little list" as being such a crappy outfit for a boat.

Based on Glen's report, I am revising my assessment. I think it would be stupid for Garmin to buy Raymarine. Apparently Raymarine knows nothing about marine electronics except stuff suitable for little dingies. Garmin already has that market locked up with their series of $500 GPS-SONAR combination instruments. It makes no sense for Garmin to buy Raymarine.

Maybe they will buy Raymarine just to take them off the market.

glen e posted 08-17-2009 08:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
Easy Jim - I'm just responding to the situation that Raymarine faces just selling only to the recreational marine market and not having other divisions to fall back on.

Nothing more..

And finally we agree...if Garmin buys Ray, things will continue the same for a while, but long term they will absorb it and take the name off the market, IMO. Just like they did with Nautamatic.

David Pendleton posted 08-17-2009 09:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton  Send Email to David Pendleton     
Raymarine has no significant presence in the commercial market.

They are strictly recreational, regardless of how big the boat is.

Their equipment may cost plenty, but I doubt you'll be seeing a C-Series or even a G190 on a commercial, ocean-going vessel anytime soon.

Raymarine can trace much of it's expertise back to the Raytheon years, and the defense market.

jimh posted 08-17-2009 10:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Raymarine's progenitor RAYTHEON was a defense contractor with experience in defense electronics like RADAR and SONAR. If you go back to their advertisements from the 1960's, Raytheon usually showed a RADAR antenna in their advertisements. If I hadn't thrown out all my old QST magazines from that era, I'd scan one of those old advertisements.

Garmin is known for their GPS devices, not for RADAR or SONAR.

David Pendleton posted 08-17-2009 10:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton  Send Email to David Pendleton     
Several members of my extended family worked for Raytheon's Submarine Signal Division in Portsmouth, RI.
jimh posted 08-17-2009 10:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Dave--That explains all the RAYMARINE gear on your boat!
SJUAE posted 08-18-2009 07:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
Dave,

Yes I sem to recall comming accross several Raytheon systems on the old diesel/electric sub's that we (UK) since sold to Canada.

Regards
Steve

David Pendleton posted 08-18-2009 11:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton  Send Email to David Pendleton     
SJUAE-- exactly, RAYTHEON not RAYMARINE.

They haven't been the same company for quite some time now.

jimh posted 08-18-2009 11:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Raymarine was spun off from Raytheon, a first tier defense electronics contractor. I'd judge that a different starting point than if they began making portable making fish finders in Kansas.
glen e posted 08-18-2009 12:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
Too simplistic a statement. Any company buys assets and talent and Garmin has both. What they are buying when they buy Ray is their engineers. They already have a few from Furuno, Nautamic and Northstar that are pioneers in the industry. And the defense guys did not go over to Ray when they formed. They stayed in the defense sector.
bluewaterpirate posted 08-18-2009 02:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Garmin says .... they will pay in cash.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUKTRE57H1WC20090818

Tom

David Pendleton posted 08-18-2009 08:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton  Send Email to David Pendleton     
I'm afraid this will probably mean the end of Raymarine as we know it.

There is a lot of Raymarine product installed out there, so I have to think they will continue to support it, but I can't see them developing and selling two lines.

I've been a Raytheon/Raymarine fan since my first boat. I will be sorry to see them go.

When it comes time to replace things, I will go with Furuno.

jimh posted 08-18-2009 08:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Glen writes:

quote:
"Too simplistic a statement.

It is something akin to saying that a $30,000 GPS, SONAR, and RADAR package is just not "big boat."

20dauntless posted 08-19-2009 01:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for 20dauntless    
Raymarine (and Raytheon before) certainly has played a major role in the recreational marine market for a long time. I have a C80 on a boat and think it is a nice unit. It certainly does everything I need it to do and while others may not find the user interface as easy to use as Garmin I don't have a problem with it. My biggest problem with Garmin is the price of the charts for them. I don't really care about all the fancy 3D modes and whatever else, but I have to pay for them. The included cartography doesn't include much of Canada which is a real problem for me. I seem to recall the charts that I'd need for the Inside Passage to Alaska are about $1000 for Garmin as opposed to $200 for Raymarine.

I can't imagine Garmin will keep the Raymarine brand around for long. Ultimately the loss of competition will be bad for the consumer IMO, but there are still several other marine electronics choices.

jimh posted 08-19-2009 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Despite the large different in their corporate size, in the marine market Raymarine and Garmin are reported to have about equal market share, each with 30-percent. See

http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/ idUSBNG44824520090817?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

From a personal point of view, mergers like this make me nervous about buying either company's product. Will you be buying a brand or model that will be obsolete and unsupported in a few month?

hauptjm posted 01-13-2010 12:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
As is apparent, Garmin has dropped their bid for Raymarine back in December. What happens to Raymarine now?

From the December 22, 2009 Fiancial Times, they reported, "Raymarine plunged 70 per cent to 1.6p after saying late on Friday that takeover talks with US peer Garmin had collapsed.

The maker of ship electronics, which has about £93m of net debt, added that it was in exclusive talks over a sale of the business but that will likely leave nothing for shareholders."

glen e posted 01-14-2010 06:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
FLIR will buy Raymarine in the next 60 days.
jimh posted 01-15-2010 08:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
There is quite an active blog of English stock traders discussing the future of RAYMARINE at

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?page=1&ShareTicker=RAY

and they mention FLIR SYSTEMS as a possible buyer, based on rumors coming from the United States.

jimh posted 02-05-2010 11:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
FLIR has only 40 days left to buy RAYMARINE.
glen e posted 02-06-2010 04:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
They have plenty of time, they only have 40 days left to prove me wrong, which will trigger a party thrown here, I suspect.
jimh posted 02-06-2010 12:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The stock trader blog mentioned above continues to be very active with speculation about the future of RAYMARINE. They point to a mention on PANBO.COM where a FLIR device is shown displayed on a RAYMARINE multi-function display, but this hardly seems to be a harbinger of any financial takeover.

http://www.panbo.com/archives/2009/09/flir_m-series_testing_1_neat_dets. html

Another web discussion touts a secret but as yet unannounced acquisition by FLIR of RAYMARINE, without proper disclosure to investors. Such a secret acquisition is considered highly unlikely considering the publicly traded nature of the two firms.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f13/ raymarine-rumor-is-exciting-35444.html

According to the stock traders, a problem for any firm interested in buying RAYMARINE is their substantial debt. The bankers in England are owed a lot of money, and perhaps can simply takeover RAYMARINE in preference to settling for pennies on the dollar, or perhaps pence on the shilling from a buyout offer.

jimh posted 03-13-2010 09:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
FLIR has only one day left to acquire RAYMARINE. I wonder if they will announce the deal on Sunday?
themclos posted 03-13-2010 01:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for themclos  Send Email to themclos     
Looks like there is some new activity with Raymarine.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSGE62A0C220100311?type=marketsNews

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/ 503259-raymarine-receives-offer-from-potential-buyer

glen e posted 03-13-2010 03:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
got your calendar marked, huh Jim?...you are amazing.
jimh posted 03-13-2010 08:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
GARMIN and FLIR apparently have both looked an RAYMARINE but failed to make an offer. An unidentified third bidder is apparently giving RAYMARINE the once over.

Curiously, I noted that Boston Whaler boats are being equipped with RAYMARINE electronics at the factory.

jimh posted 03-13-2010 08:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
ASIDE to Glen: My only special insight here is to be able to count. I defer to you to provide the special insights about who will buy RAYMARINE.
hauptjm posted 04-09-2010 12:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Apparently, another suitor has entered the fray of a possible purchase of Raymarine. This suitor is a direct competitor and as yet, unamed. http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/ 503743-competitor-eyes-raymarine-takeover After reading several articles on the inability of Raymarine to service their debt, the valuation of the takeover continues to drop. Per Reuters: LONDON, April 8 (Reuters) - Debt-laden firm Raymarine (RAY.L) has received two further takeover approaches, one of which values Raymarine at 5.8 million pounds ($8.8 million), double the level of a first approach received in March.
bluewaterpirate posted 04-28-2010 01:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Garmin made an offer in the open [i.e., a public offer] this morning . [The offer price] is much above what another company offered. Ben at Panbo has [reported on] the openess and ramifications of the offer.--Tom
themclos posted 04-28-2010 02:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for themclos  Send Email to themclos     
Raymarine has urged shareholders to take no action. They have been doing everything in their power to keep from being acquired by Garmin.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE63R2JQ20100428

bluewaterpirate posted 04-28-2010 02:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
What [RAYMARINE] [have] been offered is far and above what anyone else has offered. Raymarine is in financial trouble. It will be interesting to see [how] the UK regulatory agencies and banks view this offer.
jimh posted 04-29-2010 01:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Combined two threads on this topic into one.]
hauptjm posted 04-30-2010 11:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Apparently, Garmin has offered $0.23-per-share, plus retirement of all bank debt.

http://economy.kansascity.com/?q=node/7030

jimh posted 04-30-2010 08:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Garmin is quoted as saying their offer

"...remains the only firmly announced proposal in relation to Raymarine which offers cash to Raymarine's shareholders and repayment in full of Raymarine's bank debt.

"In the event that Raymarine makes a formal announcement of the terms of a competing proposal by the currently un-named third party involving a sale (subject to shareholder approval) by Raymarine of Raymarine Holdings Limited, Garmin will make a further announcement."

hauptjm posted 05-14-2010 02:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Well glen e might have been a little off on his timing, but he was dead on, on the buyer. FLIR Systems just announced the purchase of Raymarine. I like this marriage better than Garmin. A least they'll be some competition in the recreational marine electronics market.
hauptjm posted 05-14-2010 02:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
I left out some pertinent details. Sale of Raymarine was for $180 million with most going toward debt retirement. $24 million went to Raymarine plc and the balance to the bank indebtedness.
jimh posted 05-15-2010 08:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Does FLIR currently make any product that sells for less than $20,000?
glen e posted 05-15-2010 04:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for glen e  Send Email to glen e     
98 % of their recreational marine sales are less than 20K in 4 camera offerings. 5K cam is a strong seller - The 320 res Navigator II.
SJUAE posted 05-15-2010 04:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
I was too polite to ask CLK how much he paid for his FLIR night vision camera on his 340 :)

Regards
Steve

PeteB88 posted 05-18-2010 05:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
"The move also illustrates Flir's push to make heat-sensing devices more affordable and available to retail customers as military orders -- which made up more than 50 percent of Flir's $1.1 billion in sales -- decline.

Analysts said Flir pursued Raymarine not so much to sell global positioning systems but to get its $2,600 First Mate camera and other infrared products in the hands of more recreational boaters and commercial fishermen."


http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2010/05/wiflir_outbids_garmin_for_bankson.html

jimh posted 05-18-2010 08:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Good article in that Oregon newspaper. Thanks to Pete.
Hoosier posted 05-18-2010 09:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for Hoosier  Send Email to Hoosier     
This may belong in a new thread, but why would one need high end night vision goggles in a recreational boat? If one was concerned with close quarters navigation in unlighted waters wouldn't something like this, with an effective range of 100m, be sufficient?

http://www.opticsplus.net/NightVision/Binoculars/ NightScout5xMagNightVisionBinoculars

David Pendleton posted 05-18-2010 03:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Pendleton  Send Email to David Pendleton     
I would consider the magification provided by binoculars undesireable in a night-vision device.
PeteB88 posted 05-18-2010 09:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for PeteB88  Send Email to PeteB88     
Boat FLIR? Gadget Geeks are going to love this! Having official FLIR gear on their boats, man, they'll be all over the latest thing whether they need it or not. I think it's going to be good for Raymarine. Plus, stuff is made in Portland. Not certain of all their products but I bet Ray GPS technology will enhance FLIR if not GPS connected already.

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.