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ContinuousWave: Small Boat Electrical
RED-WHITE-RED Navigation Lamps for Small Boat
|Author||Topic: RED-WHITE-RED Navigation Lamps for Small Boat|
posted 08-10-2010 08:34 PM ET (US)
The proper lights to display at night with divers in the water
is red over white over red (same as dive flag). I'm trying
to fabricate such a beast, and I need two red all-round lights
and one white. I've found some, but they are rather large
diameter (3"). I'd like to find something more like 1.5
inches. And LED would be really cool. Any thoughts?
posted 08-10-2010 08:44 PM ET (US)
Chuck: I just purchase some Nav. Lights from Attwood Marine (LEDs), If you check on their site you might be able to find something. There are some other high end marine lights out there from Europe this would be another way to go but, I know they are more expensive. I would also try Perko Marine Lights...good luck
posted 08-10-2010 08:49 PM ET (US)
Chuck--I am just back from FIVE FATHOM MARINE PARK OF CANADA, which is a diver's mecca. All of the commercial dive boats for hire in the harbour at Tobermory had special red-over-white-over-red lamps set on their main mast. The individual lamps were quite large, probably the three-inch diameter lamps you mention.
posted 08-10-2010 09:09 PM ET (US)
Yep, and I don't need soup-can sized lights on a Montauk.
I've been through the Perko catalog today, and went through
posted 08-10-2010 11:06 PM ET (US)
I just went through the Attwood catalog again. No luck.
Any other brands to look at besides Attwood, Perko, Aqua Signal, Orca Green Marine, Hella? I'm chasing down catalogs
Contender: have you got some brand names for those Eurolights?
posted 08-11-2010 12:25 AM ET (US)
I got through the Aqua Signal, Hella Marine, and OGM catalogs.
OGM gets should be OMG, it's that pricey. $200-475. And didn't
have anything interesting. Neither did Aqua Signal or Hella,
Hell gets points for being the only one that didn't make me
download the PDF catalog one section at a time (Perko claimed
I could, but it blew up in a out of space situation on their
posted 08-11-2010 05:21 AM ET (US)
How about a string of Mark-lites from Tektite. Battery powered and $11.95 each.
posted 08-11-2010 05:24 AM ET (US)
Or the Mark-lite LED
posted 08-12-2010 12:52 AM ET (US)
Chuck, you could have TAP Plastics fabricate an acrylic red-white-red slip cover for your stern light, then install a LED bulb in the stern lamp assembly.
posted 08-12-2010 01:03 AM ET (US)
The navigation rules require one meter of separation between the red-white-red lights.
posted 08-12-2010 03:36 AM ET (US)
I thought a long bendy pole in a rod holder with a line coming down to the boat, put a decent bend into the top of the pole to make the lights stand away from the pole and just tie it off down below.
posted 08-12-2010 01:30 PM ET (US)
The incandescent Mark-Lites aren't near bright enough (I use
them as as marker lights on night dives).
A sleeve over the anchor light wouldn't have enough spacing
I don't remember anything about one meter.
I don't fish. No rod holders.
posted 08-12-2010 05:20 PM ET (US)
From the annex to the Navigation Rules:
"When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced as follows:
1. on a vessel of 20 meters in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 meters apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 4 meters above the hull;
posted 08-15-2010 11:17 PM ET (US)
Hmmmm. I'm not sure there are supposed to be multiple lights in a vertical line. I thought the light was a replacement for the International Code A flag, which can't be more than 3 feet in height.
posted 08-15-2010 11:45 PM ET (US)
RED-WHITE-RED is the signal for vessel restricted in ability to maneuver due to the nature of her work.
posted 08-16-2010 01:45 AM ET (US)
27. Lights for vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to manoeuvre
1. three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white;
Net, not just restricted in their ability to "manoeuvre".
posted 08-16-2010 03:38 AM ET (US)
Check out diagram 10:[Deadlink removed]
posted 08-16-2010 06:19 AM ET (US)
It looks like the red white red flag is State or local requirement, flag Alfa is used internationally. I have never seen the former.
posted 08-16-2010 10:37 AM ET (US)
The red/white/red light is for all vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver, not just dive boats.
The Alpha flag is for boats engaged in diving activities, and does not relate to the divers.
The red/white/red "diver down" flag relates to the actual divers in the water, and not to the boat.
posted 08-16-2010 12:46 PM ET (US)
The red-white-red flag is used internationally. About ten
years ago, before Skin Diver Magazine went defunct, I leafed
through it the adverts from around the world. Non-US dive
operators were more likely than US dive ops to be displaying
the red-white-red. And in both cases were more likely to
display the red-white-red than the Alpha. And NOBODY showed
a 1M rigid replica of the Alpha flag (I've NEVER EVER seen one),
If they show an Alpha, it's either a flag, or smaller than
one meter painted on.
posted 08-16-2010 01:33 PM ET (US)
In my relatively short scuba diving career (about 8 years, 100 dives, about 50% outside of the U.S.) I have never seen a dive boat flying a rigid Alpha flag. I have seen a handful of dive boats flying a cloth Alpha flag, all of which were also flying the red/white/red diver down flag. On the 8 to 10 night dives I have completed from a dive boat, I have never seen the red/white/red lights displayed.
posted 08-16-2010 02:19 PM ET (US)
I think the little perko 1604 or 1607 lights could easily be adapted and mounted on a 3ft pole using screws or u bolts
To get red you would need to put a red acrylic film inside the bowl
They also do a LED version but for red you would need to put UV stable red film on the outside as the bowl/lens is sealed
posted 08-16-2010 07:45 PM ET (US)
From first hand experience, I don't think that displaying special lights while diving at night will result in greater safety for the divers. When diving during daylight hours, I find that the red and white "divers down" flag attracts more idiots motoring up close and asking "what's going on" then it repels. The majority of boaters out there don't know port from starboard. Provided you are not in a channel, the white all-around light sounds appropriate. The only advantage of red-over-white-over-red is that you can distinguish your boat when you surface.
posted 08-19-2010 03:31 PM ET (US)
A long time ago (over 20 years South Fla.) we were diving and then boarded by either the Sheriff's Dept. or the Marine Patrol. We got a warning for not having the Alfa flag, After that I attached a Dive Flag (Red with White Strip) and an Alfa Flag (Blue and White) to a solid fiberglass fishing rod. When we are diving I just put it in a rod holder. However, out on the water I never see one or one being used while someone is diving...
posted 08-21-2010 12:02 PM ET (US)
Chuck, it looks like you'll need a 14 foot pole if you mount it to the cockpit floor. 2/3 meter to clear the gunwale, 2 meters to the first white light, 1 meter to the second red light, then 1 last meter to the third, white light. Quite a beast to say the least, but not out of the question. Here's how I would fabricate it:
Drill a 1-inch diameter hole on the console top, in the forward, port corner. Mount a 7/8 rail mount to the console floor, directly below the hole. Trim the hole with a 7/8-inch inner diameter flange, or install another rail mount over the hole, on the console top. Now your pole will pass through the console top, and mount to the console floor.
For the pole itself, cut an 7(ish)-foot length of 7/8-inch SS rail tube. Mount a 7/8-inch "T" fitting to the top of the pole. Add another meter length, with another "T", then a final meter with an elbow fitting.
Add 18" SS tubing to the horizontal "T" fittings and the elbow (This will decrease the blind spot created by the presence of the tubing, and center the lights to midship.)
On the end of each 18-inch length, add an elbow, then a 3-inch length of SS tubing, then a standard all around LED stern light (I'd use the OEM whaler stern light fitting and shade the appropriate lenses red) I would probably mount these facing downward.
Finally, measure and cut the base tubing so that the first light is exactly 2 meters above the gunwale. Buy a 7/8 SS end cap to cap the hole in the console top when not in use, and for a nice clean finish.
posted 08-21-2010 12:03 PM ET (US)
Oops, reverse the lighting scheme.
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