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Author Topic:   RED-WHITE-RED Navigation Lamps for Small Boat
Chuck Tribolet posted 08-10-2010 08:34 PM ET (US)   Profile for Chuck Tribolet   Send Email to Chuck Tribolet  
The proper lights to display at night with divers in the water
is red over white over red (same as dive flag). I'm trying
to fabricate such a beast, and I need two red all-round lights
and one white. I've found some, but they are rather large
diameter (3"). I'd like to find something more like 1.5
inches. And LED would be really cool. Any thoughts?


Chuck

contender posted 08-10-2010 08:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for contender  Send Email to contender     
Chuck: I just purchase some Nav. Lights from Attwood Marine (LEDs), If you check on their site you might be able to find something. There are some other high end marine lights out there from Europe this would be another way to go but, I know they are more expensive. I would also try Perko Marine Lights...good luck
jimh posted 08-10-2010 08:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Chuck--I am just back from FIVE FATHOM MARINE PARK OF CANADA, which is a diver's mecca. All of the commercial dive boats for hire in the harbour at Tobermory had special red-over-white-over-red lamps set on their main mast. The individual lamps were quite large, probably the three-inch diameter lamps you mention.
Chuck Tribolet posted 08-10-2010 09:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Yep, and I don't need soup-can sized lights on a Montauk.

I've been through the Perko catalog today, and went through
the Attwood catalog a while ago.


Chuck

Chuck Tribolet posted 08-10-2010 11:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I just went through the Attwood catalog again. No luck.

Any other brands to look at besides Attwood, Perko, Aqua Signal, Orca Green Marine, Hella? I'm chasing down catalogs
for the last three.

Contender: have you got some brand names for those Eurolights?


Chuck

Chuck Tribolet posted 08-11-2010 12:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
I got through the Aqua Signal, Hella Marine, and OGM catalogs.
OGM gets should be OMG, it's that pricey. $200-475. And didn't
have anything interesting. Neither did Aqua Signal or Hella,
Hell gets points for being the only one that didn't make me
download the PDF catalog one section at a time (Perko claimed
I could, but it blew up in a out of space situation on their
server).


Chuck

daveweight posted 08-11-2010 05:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for daveweight  Send Email to daveweight     
How about a string of Mark-lites from Tektite. Battery powered and $11.95 each.
Dave Weight
daveweight posted 08-11-2010 05:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for daveweight  Send Email to daveweight     
Or the Mark-lite LED
Dave Weight
ratherwhalering posted 08-12-2010 12:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Chuck, you could have TAP Plastics fabricate an acrylic red-white-red slip cover for your stern light, then install a LED bulb in the stern lamp assembly.
jimh posted 08-12-2010 01:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The navigation rules require one meter of separation between the red-white-red lights.
daveweight posted 08-12-2010 03:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for daveweight  Send Email to daveweight     
I thought a long bendy pole in a rod holder with a line coming down to the boat, put a decent bend into the top of the pole to make the lights stand away from the pole and just tie it off down below.
Dave Weight
Chuck Tribolet posted 08-12-2010 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
The incandescent Mark-Lites aren't near bright enough (I use
them as as marker lights on night dives).

A sleeve over the anchor light wouldn't have enough spacing
between red and white, and then I wouldn't have an anchor
light.

I don't remember anything about one meter.

I don't fish. No rod holders.


Chuck

jimh posted 08-12-2010 05:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
From the annex to the Navigation Rules:

"When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced as follows:

1. on a vessel of 20 meters in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 meters apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 4 meters above the hull;
2. on a vessel of less than 20 meters in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 meter apart and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, be placed at a height of not less than 2 meters above the gunwale;
3. when three lights are carried they shall be equally spaced."

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRule&annex=annex_1Intl#2

ratherwhalering posted 08-15-2010 11:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Hmmmm. I'm not sure there are supposed to be multiple lights in a vertical line. I thought the light was a replacement for the International Code A flag, which can't be more than 3 feet in height.

jimh posted 08-15-2010 11:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
RED-WHITE-RED is the signal for vessel restricted in ability to maneuver due to the nature of her work.
Chuck Tribolet posted 08-16-2010 01:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Colregs:

27. Lights for vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to manoeuvre
...
(e) Whenever the size of a vessel engaged in diving operations makes it impracticable to exhibit all lights and shapes prescribed in paragraph (d) of this Rule, the following shall be exhibited:

1. three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white;
2. a rigid replica of the International Code flag "A" not less than 1 metre (3.3 ft) in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility.

Net, not just restricted in their ability to "manoeuvre".


BTW, Colregs does not mention the internationally accepted
red with a white stripe diver-down flag. It's time to change
that.


Chuck

ratherwhalering posted 08-16-2010 03:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Check out diagram 10:[Deadlink removed]
daveweight posted 08-16-2010 06:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for daveweight  Send Email to daveweight     
It looks like the red white red flag is State or local requirement, flag Alfa is used internationally. I have never seen the former.
Dave Weight
K Albus posted 08-16-2010 10:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
The red/white/red light is for all vessels restricted in their ability to maneuver, not just dive boats.

The Alpha flag is for boats engaged in diving activities, and does not relate to the divers.

The red/white/red "diver down" flag relates to the actual divers in the water, and not to the boat.

Chuck Tribolet posted 08-16-2010 12:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
The red-white-red flag is used internationally. About ten
years ago, before Skin Diver Magazine went defunct, I leafed
through it the adverts from around the world. Non-US dive
operators were more likely than US dive ops to be displaying
the red-white-red. And in both cases were more likely to
display the red-white-red than the Alpha. And NOBODY showed
a 1M rigid replica of the Alpha flag (I've NEVER EVER seen one),
If they show an Alpha, it's either a flag, or smaller than
one meter painted on.


Chuck

K Albus posted 08-16-2010 01:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
In my relatively short scuba diving career (about 8 years, 100 dives, about 50% outside of the U.S.) I have never seen a dive boat flying a rigid Alpha flag. I have seen a handful of dive boats flying a cloth Alpha flag, all of which were also flying the red/white/red diver down flag. On the 8 to 10 night dives I have completed from a dive boat, I have never seen the red/white/red lights displayed.
SJUAE posted 08-16-2010 02:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for SJUAE  Send Email to SJUAE     
I think the little perko 1604 or 1607 lights could easily be adapted and mounted on a 3ft pole using screws or u bolts

To get red you would need to put a red acrylic film inside the bowl

They also do a LED version but for red you would need to put UV stable red film on the outside as the bowl/lens is sealed

Regards
Steve

Tom Hemphill posted 08-16-2010 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Hemphill    
From first hand experience, I don't think that displaying special lights while diving at night will result in greater safety for the divers. When diving during daylight hours, I find that the red and white "divers down" flag attracts more idiots motoring up close and asking "what's going on" then it repels. The majority of boaters out there don't know port from starboard. Provided you are not in a channel, the white all-around light sounds appropriate. The only advantage of red-over-white-over-red is that you can distinguish your boat when you surface.
Stevebaz posted 08-19-2010 03:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for contender  Send Email to contender     
A long time ago (over 20 years South Fla.) we were diving and then boarded by either the Sheriff's Dept. or the Marine Patrol. We got a warning for not having the Alfa flag, After that I attached a Dive Flag (Red with White Strip) and an Alfa Flag (Blue and White) to a solid fiberglass fishing rod. When we are diving I just put it in a rod holder. However, out on the water I never see one or one being used while someone is diving...
ratherwhalering posted 08-21-2010 12:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Chuck, it looks like you'll need a 14 foot pole if you mount it to the cockpit floor. 2/3 meter to clear the gunwale, 2 meters to the first white light, 1 meter to the second red light, then 1 last meter to the third, white light. Quite a beast to say the least, but not out of the question. Here's how I would fabricate it:

Drill a 1-inch diameter hole on the console top, in the forward, port corner. Mount a 7/8 rail mount to the console floor, directly below the hole. Trim the hole with a 7/8-inch inner diameter flange, or install another rail mount over the hole, on the console top. Now your pole will pass through the console top, and mount to the console floor.

For the pole itself, cut an 7(ish)-foot length of 7/8-inch SS rail tube. Mount a 7/8-inch "T" fitting to the top of the pole. Add another meter length, with another "T", then a final meter with an elbow fitting.

Add 18" SS tubing to the horizontal "T" fittings and the elbow (This will decrease the blind spot created by the presence of the tubing, and center the lights to midship.)

On the end of each 18-inch length, add an elbow, then a 3-inch length of SS tubing, then a standard all around LED stern light (I'd use the OEM whaler stern light fitting and shade the appropriate lenses red) I would probably mount these facing downward.

Finally, measure and cut the base tubing so that the first light is exactly 2 meters above the gunwale. Buy a 7/8 SS end cap to cap the hole in the console top when not in use, and for a nice clean finish.

ratherwhalering posted 08-21-2010 12:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for ratherwhalering  Send Email to ratherwhalering     
Oops, reverse the lighting scheme.

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