posted 09-26-2010 09:09 PM ET (US)            

http://www.floscan.com/html/blue/seriesdetail.php?sid=11

posted 10-05-2010 08:36 PM ET (US)            

DISCUSSION:

When I received my Flo scan meter I looked it over and decided to call the company and discuss the installation directly w/ service tech. When they referenced the model number the rep said "we haven't made that unit for almost a decade and transfered me to the technical service managerm Ed. He told me they pulled all of that inventory at least seven years ago because the sensors were vulnerable to fuel additives and especially ethanol.

He said there were over 200 fuel additives to worry about in the last 10 years but ethanol gave them the biggest headaches. Continuing, he confirmed that ethanol fuel will attack the components of those sensors "quickly". Low hour boats might get one or two years before the sensors would have to be replaced. I asked how much the replacement sensors are and he said $150 bucks.

WOA. Now what?

So I called Overton's and sent a message to Whaler CW bro RIchard in California. I got to the customer service manager Leslie who deserves a Customer Service award. She handled my call very well including my scrutiny and statement that Flo Scan and Overton's has a known failure mode and I want a positive outcome that ensures I am going to say nice things about Overtons.

A few days later I received a voice mail, which I have saved from Lesliegh that Overton's is going to cover the cost of proper sensors, current inventory that cannot be damaged by ethanol or any other additive.

Leslie said the new sensors are enroute, at no charge for shipping or the devices.

GREAT JOB OVERTON and FLO SCAN

and

posted 10-05-2010 09:58 PM ET (US)            

The question is who knew and when. It is clear from my conversations with the tech manager that they did everything they could to get the "bad" product back once they identified the problem. I explained my work with FDA regulated medical devices and our requirement to have 1) 50 year history on all product and 2) complete traceability on all product including modules, subassemblies and components which means if recall we have to know where our devices are and how to get to them to take them off line or repair them.

Flo scan manufacturers devices for aviation and I would bet that they understand the same or similar requirements mandated by FDA.

These devices are not manufactured, designed or distributed to these stringent requirements. Therefore, all things considered, I think they did a reasonable job under the circumstances.

I believe Flo Scan did a reasonable job, perhaps ducking a recall, to get these products off the market. Without regulatory mandates (which cost a company or manufacturer a flippin' fortune) they did a fair job. The technical service manager was immediately forthcoming with information that their product was faulty - PROVEN FAILURE MODE. He made NO excuses and fired up a corrective action protocol with no lies, BS, deflection, excuses or shuck and jive.

Overton did the same. Leslie took time to understand the issue and in short order implemented a corrective action that resolved the issue and made me happy.

It would be interesting to debrief this issue and get a true read on the exposure FLo Scan has specific to these components that are vulnerable to ethanol. They know the number produced and my bet is they designed these components based on best technology and information available at the time.

ALONG COMES ETHANOL - which blind sided everyone especially more vulnerable manufactures like Pate who I understand was wiped out because ethanol dissolved plasticizer or whatever resin stuff in what was a great product, reliable and cool looking.

Take it or leave it both Flo Scan and Overton did a hell of a job handling me (and I RAN THE GUTS OUT OF THEM - NICELY), implementing corrective action and making me and Richard whole.

And that comes from a regulatory dude who worked in critical care devices with the responsibility to "investigate deaths, serious injuries and malfunctions or reports of deaths, serious injuries and malfunctions". Moi, me myself and I.

Finally, I have experienced, in memory, a better resolution and more professional handling of a potentially difficult issue.

posted 10-06-2010 10:46 AM ET (US)            

I meant to say

Finally, I have NOT experienced, in memory, a better resolution and more professional handling of a potentially difficult issue.

posted 10-06-2010 02:24 PM ET (US)            

Having significant understanding of retailers, including high volume catalogue businesses (through various work and make-over projects) I know things like this (older inventory) can exist on their shelves. All you have to do is make a visit to Wolfe's Marine, Van's or even Lockeman's and some of the stuff on the shelf is dated. Not atypical at all.

My (N-1) experience with them and their straightforward, customer sensitive attitude to understand the issue, believe my report, double check options and initiate positive corrective action in my (the customer's) favor was impressive. This included a no charge resolution - replacing the sensors at NO charge instead of offering a discount or dumping it back on me. OR just authorizing a return for reimbursement. My only option at that point would be to purchase a new instrument or buy that used one from you - if you still have it. However, I'm sure the line is long regarding others interested in buying the meter from you.

Flo-Scan did not beat around the bush. Once they confirmed the model number they went into immediate corrective action mode, told me the product was old inventory (but brand new) and gave me a full briefing of the issue. They said they would be happy to work with the retailer and they did quickly. They never once tried to deny or dump the problem back on Richard or me.

IF there is a problem in the supply chain it is more likely Flo-scan's effectiveness/responsibility to identify and get those products off the market for rework or to be discarded. I believe they did a reasonable job in that regard. Nevertheless, I am not surprised at all that a few of those meters did not get back to the manufacturer and remained somewhere in warehouses or retailer inventory.

I am not aware of what Flo-scan did seven years ago to notify the market place via alerts or TSBs.

posted 10-09-2010 01:49 PM ET (US)            

My parents were in business for 50 years so I am extremely sensitive to issues regarding small business.

Discussion of how/why this inventory (with known failure modes) was available for sale and actually sold is interesting but a discussion with no solution. It is a wedge issue.

To have absolutely ZERO back pressure or LYING from two large, complex companies is refreshing. That means I have no problem buying more stuff from them.

I think the LIKELIHOOD of this happening is extremely low.

GREAT examples of ADMITTING screw ups (some product was still on retail shelves) and ACTION to make an expensive replacement IMMEDIATE and appropriate.

Let's cut them a break.

If you want to discuss it sometime, Jim, when we're at some Whaler function, I'd be glad to face to face.

Boat out this weekend for sure!!!

posted 10-09-2010 04:19 PM ET (US)            

I know you are trying to resurrect OVERTON's reputation after they sold you a seven-year-old obsolete part which would no longer work with today's blended gasoline fuel and was basically useless. My point is just simply it would have been more laudable if OVERTON's were not selling obsolete and unusable material in the first place. From what I have read, OVERTON's would still have no idea they were selling obsolete parts which were useless if you had not researched this problem and informed them.

posted 10-09-2010 08:58 PM ET (US)            

"I know you are trying to resurrect OVERTON's reputation after they sold you a seven-year-old obsolete part which would no longer work with today's blended gasoline fuel and was basically useless."

Overton means nothing to me. I have no idea of their history and have no interest in trying to resurrect anything. The fact they sold me a part with a known failure mode must be really bugging you but I'm not tripping about it because things like this happen. I actually prefer to do business with specialty and ma and pa shops when I can.

"LOCKEMAN'S is not a participant in the "issue" of ethanol."

I do not know what this means. My conversations with individuals who refer readers on this forum and directly w/ Dave indicates they know about the ethanol issue, possible damage to components, are fair to customers and do not rape customers like some less reputable repair shops do. I'm still trying to free up some time to take my Outrage over there so they can link and synch my carbs. I wish they were closer.

"That you are surprised and pleased that a retailer would make good on a sale after they sold you an obsolete and basically useless component is perhaps more an expression of the rather low expectations..."

Once again they did not hesitate to fire up a solution without a hassle or 2 hours on the phone. You are probably right about the rest of your comment.

Out.