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Author Topic:   Standard Horizon
anthonylisske posted 03-16-2012 01:17 PM ET (US)   Profile for anthonylisske   Send Email to anthonylisske  
[The author says he has] been a long-time user of [Standard-Horizon] products, based on always very good customer service, and ten months ago bought a new CP590. [The author continues by saying he] had a couple of [problems] with [the CP590]. The most important was it would lose GPS signals intermittently. [The author says he] spoke to customer service and they basically said that I would have to send-in the unit, of course at my expense. I waited [until] the NY boat show and [complained] to [a representative of Standard-Horizon.] [The Standard-Horizon representative] said to send in the antenna, and he would replace it with a new one. [The author says he] finally pulled the antenna off and called to let [the representative of Standard-Horizon] know that I was gonna send it in. He is no longer with company. A new guy says [I] have to show him a re-visit, and that they only would cover [the repair of the antenna] if it were less than one year old.

[The author says, perhaps sarcastically, that he is] glad to spend [$2,000] (for the second time with a company) to be told they would only cover their product for a year--[their coverage] used to be three or five years with last unit.

Also, the tone has changed, and [Standard-Horizon] just seem more like [vulgar term]. The manager told me he is not familiar with the chart plotters.

Now, mind you I have always praised [Standard-Horizon] customer service, so I am not trying to bash. I know they were taken over by [Vertex-Yaesu]. Does that have something to do with [the change in customer service attitude which is described here]?

I will not be buying from Standard-Horizon again. There, I feel better.

Jeff posted 03-16-2012 02:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jeff  Send Email to Jeff     
Anthony--I, too, had a similar experience with a Standard Horizon VHF I bought recently. Somehow my fixed mount VHF filled with water vapor and died after being out in a heavy rain. I found this strange as the unit is said to be completely waterproof to 30-foot depths. Their customer service around getting my VHF fixed under warranty was a complete hassle, and I was always treated as a nuisance. By the end of the first season, post repair, the speaker had died and the was now out of the manufactures warranty, but covered under the repair warranty. I contacted them and they say they would not cover the speaker as it was not repaired under the first claim, failed on its own, and not from the water vapor exposure. I will never buy their products again.
litnin posted 03-16-2012 03:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for litnin  Send Email to litnin     
Well, I had a great experience with Standard Horizon on a fairly recent repair to my handheld. Very professional and they did everything that they were supposed to do in a timely manner. There is no excuse for poor service but it is next to impossible to have all aces when you have a large group of employees. Whenever I have this kind of trouble, I just keep going up the food chain until I get satisfaction. There are bad apples in every organization but NO company wants dissatisfied customers if they have any sense. Especially disgruntled ones that post their dissatisfactions on frequented websites.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-16-2012 04:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Yaesu acquired Standard back in 1998.

I believe the SH radios are JIS-7/IPX-7 rated, which means
waterproof to 3' for 30 minutes, not 30'.


Chuck

Jeff posted 03-16-2012 04:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jeff  Send Email to Jeff     
Chuck--Either way, [the Standard-Horizon fixed mount VHF radio] was flush mounted in my console and never was submersed in water.
jimh posted 03-16-2012 05:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have favored Standard-Horizon VHF Marine Band radios for some time for several reasons:

--innovative feature set, particularly with regard to digital selective calling;

--good user interface design and good controls;

--good transmitter modulation

I did have one occasion to have to return a Standard-Horizon product for repair, and it was repaired at no charge. I did pay the shipping to Standard-Horizon, and they paid the return shipping to me.

A number of years ago I bought one of their chart plotters, a CP150. At the time its was a very good value in a chart plotter. It had one of the first GPS receivers which was able to use the space based augmentation system just coming into service from the FAA, their WAAS SBAS. I had no problems with the chart plotter, however the GPS receiver was not able to tolerate the PRN changes in July of 2009--many early GPS receivers with WAAS had this problem--and the SBAS augmentation was lost. Other than that, it still works as well as it did on day one.

Water damage to marine electronics can be a problem for customers and manufacturers. Although these are marine products, they are not intended to be used in the rain or exposed to water driven onto them at high velocity. Water inside of any electronic device is a big problem.

Standard-Horizon was been part of Vertex-Standard (includes Yaesu) for a long time. I do not think it is possible to attribute any recent change in their policies regarding extended warranty coverage or willingness to go the extra mile to any recent ownership changes.

In 2008 there was a change in ownership. Motorola acquired a controlling interest in Vertex Standard. If there were something different about their policies, it might be more appropriate to attribute the change to the Motorola influence. In two-way mobile communication, Motorola is the gold standard, and I would be surprised to learn that the Motorola influence was a negative influence on Standard-Horizon.

The VHF Marine Band radios being sold these days are really rather sophisticated computer-radio integrations. That they sell at the rather low price point we have now is quite surprising to me. One has to look back a few years and see how much a VHF Marine Band radio used to cost, say back in the 1970's. You might have paid $400 for a set with crystals and only working on a few channels. Now for $150 you get a fantastic radio with amazing digital capabilities. If the manufacturer is a little reluctant to give you a new one because the speaker got soaked in water, you could have some understanding.

jimh posted 03-16-2012 05:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
In the marine electronic business these days the retail market is strongly influenced by price. Retailers typically offer no after-sale service. If you have a problem you have to send the marine electronic device back to the manufacturer for repair. There just is not a local repair shop you can take your electronic device to for service. The usual policy on sending gear to the factory for repair--particularly for out-of-warranty repair--is the customer pays the shipping to the factory, and the factory may pay the shipping back to the customer. In many cases they do, but I would not say that it is a guarantee.
Chuck Tribolet posted 03-16-2012 08:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Motorola no longer has a interest in the Standard Horizon
marine products. It's back to Yaesu.

Chuck

jimh posted 03-16-2012 08:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Wow--That Motorola influence did not last long. Did Motorola sell off its interest in Vertex-Standard due to the split of Motorola into two different companies? Here is a corporate history of Vertex-Standard:

http://www.vertexstandard.com/lmr/pdf/ Vertex_Standard_Corporate_Profile_01-2012.pdf

I don't see where they disassociated from Motorola. In 2008 Motorola was said to have acquired a controlling interest in Vertex-Standard. I can't find any information on Motorola selling off that controlling interest.

Chuck Tribolet posted 03-17-2012 11:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chuck Tribolet  Send Email to Chuck Tribolet     
Jim, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaesu_%28brand%29

Chuck

jimh posted 03-18-2012 12:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Thanks for the pointer. It looks like the important information about Standard-Horizon's new parent company comes from this article:

http:/ / www. arrl. org/ news/ yaesu-s-amateur-radio-division-breaks-wit h-motorola-changes-name-to-yaesu-musen .

Jefecinco posted 03-19-2012 08:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
I recently mentioned reading about your concerns and problems with Standard Horizon customer support on another discussion group.

I was almost immediately contacted by R. Jason Kennedy, Executive Vice President of Standard Horizon. He requested I refer any unsatisfied customers to him directly so he can resolve their issues at (714) 827-7600.

I highly recommend dissatisfied Standard Horizon customers contact Mr. Kennedy immediately.

Butch

Jefecinco posted 03-21-2012 10:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Anthony and Jeff,

Have you called R. Jason Kennedy at Standard Horizon? I'm curious about his ability to help you.

Thanks.

Butch

anthonylisske posted 03-21-2012 03:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for anthonylisske  Send Email to anthonylisske     
Just saw link. I will contact today.

Thanks

anthonylisske posted 03-24-2012 06:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for anthonylisske  Send Email to anthonylisske     
Called 2x. It is a general front office number. I left 2 messages. No on has gotten back to me yet.
anthonylisske posted 03-27-2012 12:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for anthonylisske  Send Email to anthonylisske     
Well, at their request sent the antenna in. They received it over a week ago. The reps said they would let me know when they got it. They never got back to me. I called to let them know they got it and asked when I would get either a new one or the old one back.

After two emails they still will not let me know when I will get the antenna back.

I just got through to kennedys voicemail and left a message. Hopefully it will help.

BTW,when I tried to explain the technical issues I was having with the unit, the supervisor told me he was not familiar with marine GPS. What a joke.

Jefecinco posted 03-28-2012 06:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Anthony,

I hope this works out for you. As to a supervisor lacking experience with GPS issues that comes as no big surprise. Standard Horizon's main business, I believe, is VHF radios. I doubt they have a large share of the GPS market even though their products are highly regarded. However, the supervisior should certainly have a "go to guy" for those time that GPS questions arise. IMO, not much of an excuse there.

Butch

Jefecinco posted 03-28-2012 06:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Anthony,

I understand that R. Jason was in contact with you today. I hope it went well.

Butch

jimh posted 03-28-2012 08:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The Standard-Horizon company has nothing at all to do with the Global Positioning System or GPS. The GPS is run by the United States Air Force. You cannot really expect a service technician at Standard Horizon to be familiar with the operation of the Air Force's Global Positioning System. This is just not a reasonable assumption.

I would expect the service technician to be familiar with the products that his department services, and that is all.

I don't think it is reasonable to think a service technician will be authoritative on issues of global navigation satellite systems (GNSS) or the GPS in particular. Issues regarding GNSS or GPS will be handled at a much higher level than the service department of an electronics manufacturer. Typically senior military staff and senior specialists in the government services will be involved with GPS issues. If you call a manufacturer's service line and find the person on the other end of the call to not be authoritative on GPS issue, so what? Unless the fellow happens to serve on a Congressional committee staff, I would not expect him to be up to speed on GPS issues.

Or were you talking about equipment malfunctions?

Jefecinco posted 03-29-2012 09:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
And here I was thinking the thread was self explanatory.

Equipment malfunction and customer service was at the heart of this discussion in case anyone became confused by or was unable to understand my poorly worded responses.

Butch

jimh posted 03-29-2012 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Butch--My concern is due to "GPS" and "issue" being the two most misused words or phrases in recent history.

"GPS" to some means whatever sort of electronic device they want to talk about, and "issue" means whatever minor annoyance they encounter while operating it.

K Albus posted 03-29-2012 12:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
Jim, I must take issue with your continuing assault on proper use of the word "issue." See paragraph 6.b.(2) at the following link: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/issue
jimh posted 03-29-2012 12:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
ASIDE: Kevin--find that definition in a printed dictionary published prior to 1968. It sounds like a web-definition.

"Problem" means problem. Why use a confusing word instead?

This also suggests my third most annoying usage, the prepending of "not that big of an" before "issue." We don't need the "of" in that form. Deleting extraneous instances of "of" is another concern for me.

Back to our topic.

In this discussion of Standard-Horizon electronics, there is no "GPS issue." There does appear to be a dispute or disagreement between two parties, a customer and various other people who seem to be representatives of the manufacturer. The dispute appears to be about the manufacturer's product failing to work, and whether or not its repair is to be covered under a warranty. At least one representative said to return the failed product for repair, but other representatives encountered in the process of sending back the product have different instructions.

I await news of resolution of the issue.

K Albus posted 03-29-2012 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
I have been following this thread because I recently purchased a Standard Horizon VHF radio based in part on glowing reviews of Standard Horizon products and customer service on this website. I may have to return my radio to the manufacturer in the near future to so that I can change the MMSI number that was previously entered into the radio. I look forward to reading about the final resolution of Mr. Lisske's problem(s).


Aside to Jim: Where in the world am I supposed to find a dictionary published before 1968 (a dictionary which, by the way, would almost certainly not include a definition for "GPS", the other disputed term in this thread)?

jimh posted 03-29-2012 03:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
ASIDE: "GPS" is an acronym and probably would not be found prior to the U.S. Air Force Global Positioning System coming into wide use by the public, which was probably c.1990.

For a printed dictionary published prior to 1968, I'll make a photostatic copy of the page from mine that has the definition of "issue."

K Albus posted 03-29-2012 06:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
Photostatic copy or mimeograph?
Jefecinco posted 03-29-2012 07:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Jim,

I certainly agree that both words are very over-used and often incorrectly used. I "actually" try not to misuse words but sometimes fail. I support your efforts.

My single most hated word in very, very common use or misuse is "actually". When I see the word used incorrectly by television commentators or news presenters it literally "chaps my ass".

Butch

jimh posted 03-29-2012 11:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
ASIDE: Kevin--In my 1984 edition of The Random House College Dictionary there are about 30 definitions given for issue, and none are "problem" or "malfunction of an electronic device."

There is no acronym "GPS" listed. The closest is "G.P.U.," the secret police of the Soviet Union.

anthonylisske posted 03-30-2012 06:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for anthonylisske  Send Email to anthonylisske     
Mr. Kennedy got in touch with me yesterday. Super nice guy and a former commercial fisherman. He understood my [concern] and was totally straight forward with me. He asked me pertinent questions to try to determine what [was causing the Standard-Horizon equipment to malfunction, including] possible interference from commercial land based broadcasting or military stuff. He also reviewed how the antenna was mounted. He acknowledge that I should not be having [operational problems] with a brand new $2000-unit. That felt good since everyone before him treated me like I was bothering them and being unreasonable

My new antenna is on its way. He said to follow up with him and he hoped it solved the problem.

There is a saying in business customer satisfaction about "turning a loss into a win". Mr. Kennedy did right by me. He promised to continue to work with me if the problem persisted. The [main] unit may be bad--which I pray it is not--but in any case, I feel like they are trying to work with me.

Thanks butch. I was [distraught] about this.

Anthony

K Albus posted 03-30-2012 08:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for K Albus  Send Email to K Albus     
Continuing the sidebar: Jim - I'm sure you're aware that the lexicon is ever-changing. It's not 1968 anymore. Nor is it 1984. The online versions of both the Oxford Dictionary and the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, two of the most trusted dictionaries in the U.S., make it clear that "issue" can properly be used as a synonym for "problem." We're not talking urbandictionary.com here - this is Merriam-Webster and Oxford.

While I'm sure you're not happy about "issue," this one should really get you going: Merriam-Webster's online definition for "GPS" includes a "radio receiver" used with the GPS system, i.e., "The car comes with GPS." See: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gps

Jefecinco posted 03-30-2012 08:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for Jefecinco  Send Email to Jefecinco     
Anthony,

Thanks for the update. I was hopeful but not altogether convinced that Mr. Kennedy would be able to help. Your experience helps to reinforce my already very high opinion of Standard Horizon as a company.

Butch

jimh posted 03-30-2012 11:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
ASIDE: Kevin--with over 30 meanings already in place for issue, I take issue with adding "problem" or "concern" or "malfunction of electronic device" or "personal disappointment with customer relations" to the definitions.

With the emergence of two, three, or more alternative global navigation satellite systems, it becomes imprecise to refer to all global navigation by the name of the Air Force's system, GPS. It is somewhat akin to calling a home frigerator a "fridge" which I believe came from the original model name, Frigidaire. Compare at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigidaire

Unfortunately, GPS even as a general term for GNSS, is misused as a term for chart plotters, fish finders, and information displays, which often do not even have a GPS receiver in them.

I understand the evolution of language, but I don't admire imprecision of expression. I have often admired the precision of expression found in written law, and, as a lawyer, I am certain you admire it, too.

dfmcintyre posted 04-04-2012 10:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Jim / Kevin -

You two need some water time.

Soon.

Don :)

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