Diagnosis of Cause of Loss of All Electrical Power

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Author Topic:   Diagnosis of Cause of Loss of All Electrical Power

PeteB88 posted 08-02-2013 10:45 PM ET (US)
We had our Outrage 17 out yesterday for many hours running an inland lake that connects to Lake Michigan by channel. We were fishing, drifting along, anchoring occasionally, starting up - running medium, fast, one trip out to Lake Michigan to catch the sunset, all pretty normal. Lockeman's did thorough check of 95 Johnson 115 last fall. There are probably a total of 10 hours use since the repair which included a new module. Motor running flawlessly.
SO here's what happened: When we came back in from Lake Mich (waves probably 2 -3s and I ran it pretty hard coming in, we idled through the channel, pushed the throttle forward for a brief 25-30 MPH run to a fishing spot and shut down. About 10 minutes later my Raymarine A57D combo started a rapid flashing pure white screen flashing to black perhaps two times/second. I pushed power button to shut off the unit and no response, flashing continued. I hit the starter and absolutely nothing - starter dead, moved control lever back and forth, no help.
I pulled everything out of the console (big console) and was digging to get to the battery thinking possible loose terminal when I thought push the three circuit breakers on the dash. I did so in rapid fashion not noting whether or not one had popped - they all seemed the same. Hit the key again and we fired right up and had no further problems. We went back to boat ramp shortly after incident, loaded up and went home.
Any thoughts on this??
I called Raymarine tech staff and reported the symptoms of the rapid white screen flashing repeatedly and tech said he'd never heard of it. I asked him to check w/ engineers because that is likely designed into the circuitry or electronics for some reason. I will talk to them again first of the week.
I also checked my owner's manual which indicates fuses and breakers but verbiage (general) only referring to Montauk and Outrage 17s and the bigger boats separately. It is clear at least on the dash, I have breakers. Manual said there is a breaker aft where the battery is (previous owner moved battery to console) and/or breaker at the battery . I have no idea what they look like.
Battery is 1.5 year old Interstate from Barrett's Marine in Spring Lake that is always on tender off season and tender hooked often during season.
Appreciate your ideas.

jimh posted 08-03-2013 08:50 AM ET (US)
In the narrative (above) the power is completely lost, then, after the contents of the console (where the battery--the source of the electrical power--is located) are physically disturbed, the power is restored. Based on the narrative, there was a poor connection to the battery for the primary power distribution for either the positive or negative circuit. Movement of other contents in the console created movement of electrical conductors, which caused the connection to the battery to be restored. Check all electrical connections to the battery. Since both the engine power for starting and power for instruments were lost, the source seems likely to be in a circuit that affects both.
I ignore the action of pushing the buttons on the helm console circuit breakers as it is unlikely they would affect the engine starter circuit. Usually the engine starting circuit on an OMC outboard engine is powered through the main battery connection of the outboard.
For more advise on diagnosing the cause of problems in an outboard engine starter circuit, see:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electricStart.html
For details of the ignition switch wiring of OMC engines, see
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ignitionSwitch.html
jimh posted 08-03-2013 01:01 PM ET (US)
I also offer an alternative theory, as follows:
The chart plotter device experienced a non-recoverable fault in execution of its code, that is, it crashed. This caused the boat operator to become anxious. Due to anxiety, the boat operator did not properly execute the outboard engine starting procedure. A moment later, the chart plotter device restarted itself. The operator, now with a calm mind, properly executed the engine start procedure, and the engine started.
Freddy posted 08-03-2013 03:00 PM ET (US)
Pete, are you using 'wing nuts' on your battery?
PeteB88 posted 08-03-2013 08:59 PM ET (US)
1) thanks Jim for your detailed response and links.
2) the boat owner was anxious because we were close to a busy channel with boat traffic, wind and current - plus crew wanted to continue fishing.
3) Yup - Wing nuts - I've been thinking about wing nuts all day.
Will get into the console tomorrow and appreciate any other advice/consultation and respect your time doing so.
PeteB88 posted 08-06-2013 06:53 PM ET (US)
So do I assume no wing nuts?
jimh posted 08-06-2013 09:56 PM ET (US)
Pete--I would look at your battery to see what connection method was used. That would be better than to make any assumptions.
PeteB88 posted 08-07-2013 03:17 PM ET (US)
I connect the wires to battery with wing-nuts.
jimh posted 08-08-2013 08:59 AM ET (US)
Using a wing-nut as the fastener for the battery terminal connections is not a very good idea in a small boat electrical system. Consider changing the fastener to a regular hex-nut with a flat washer and lock-washer. Or, you can use an elastic stop-nut. (But they can be expensive and hard to find in the battery terminal thread size.)
I also recommend you check the terminal connectors of the conductors for the primary power distribution. Make sure they are clean and dry, and their surface is flat and free of any coatings. Use WD-40 and some 600-grit emery cloth to wet-sand them. That will clean up the surfaces so you are getting a good conductive surface.
When tightening the hex-nut fasteners on the battery terminals, be very careful with your wrench or ratchet driver--don't let the metal of the wrench come in contact with any other conductor! If there is limited space and you are worried about hitting another conductor with the wrench, apply a layer of Scotch 33+ electrical tape to the wrench or handle of the ratchet as a precaution. (Professional technicians that work on battery connections use special insulated tools to insure against accidental contact of the tool with another conductor.)
Do not apply any grease to any of the conductors before you join them together at the battery terminal. Once the conductors are joined and you resolved all the problems of the intermittent connections, you can, if you wish, coat the connection with some protective grease or spray it with a battery terminal protective coating spray.
PeteB88 posted 08-08-2013 11:13 AM ET (US)
Thanks Jim!
PeteB88 posted 08-14-2013 06:55 PM ET (US)
Yup - loose wing nuts.
jimh posted 08-17-2013 11:03 AM ET (US)
Pete--I believe you are confirming that your connection of the power distribution cables to the battery terminals was done with wing-nut fasteners. Can you also confirm if you think the wing-but fasteners were the cause of the loss of all electrical power in the incident you described above? Did you find the wing-nut fasteners to be loose?
PeteB88 posted 08-22-2013 02:20 PM ET (US)
I did indeed find the wing nuts loose, both terminals. It is likely I did not double check connections after installing battery and prior to operating the boat. I generally hand tighten the wing nuts and snug them with a tool like channel locks with insulated handles which I carry on board in my tool kit.
Corrective action plan is to:
1) replace with proper hex head nuts with washers per recommendation or stop nuts.
2) strongly consider installing two battery system and switch.
Thanks. Hopefully this helps other boaters with troubleshooting and proper equipment choices.
PeteB88 posted 08-22-2013 02:20 PM ET (US)
I did indeed find the wing nuts loose, both terminals. It is likely I did not double check connections after installing battery and prior to operating the boat. I generally hand tighten the wing nuts and snug them with a tool like channel locks with insulated handles which I carry on board in my tool kit.
Corrective action plan is to:
1) replace with proper hex head nuts with washers per recommendation or stop nuts.
2) strongly consider installing two battery system and switch.
Thanks. Hopefully this helps other boaters with troubleshooting and proper equipment choices.

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Author	Topic: Diagnosis of Cause of Loss of All Electrical Power
PeteB88	posted 08-02-2013 10:45 PM ET (US) We had our Outrage 17 out yesterday for many hours running an inland lake that connects to Lake Michigan by channel. We were fishing, drifting along, anchoring occasionally, starting up - running medium, fast, one trip out to Lake Michigan to catch the sunset, all pretty normal. Lockeman's did thorough check of 95 Johnson 115 last fall. There are probably a total of 10 hours use since the repair which included a new module. Motor running flawlessly. SO here's what happened: When we came back in from Lake Mich (waves probably 2 -3s and I ran it pretty hard coming in, we idled through the channel, pushed the throttle forward for a brief 25-30 MPH run to a fishing spot and shut down. About 10 minutes later my Raymarine A57D combo started a rapid flashing pure white screen flashing to black perhaps two times/second. I pushed power button to shut off the unit and no response, flashing continued. I hit the starter and absolutely nothing - starter dead, moved control lever back and forth, no help. I pulled everything out of the console (big console) and was digging to get to the battery thinking possible loose terminal when I thought push the three circuit breakers on the dash. I did so in rapid fashion not noting whether or not one had popped - they all seemed the same. Hit the key again and we fired right up and had no further problems. We went back to boat ramp shortly after incident, loaded up and went home. Any thoughts on this?? I called Raymarine tech staff and reported the symptoms of the rapid white screen flashing repeatedly and tech said he'd never heard of it. I asked him to check w/ engineers because that is likely designed into the circuitry or electronics for some reason. I will talk to them again first of the week. I also checked my owner's manual which indicates fuses and breakers but verbiage (general) only referring to Montauk and Outrage 17s and the bigger boats separately. It is clear at least on the dash, I have breakers. Manual said there is a breaker aft where the battery is (previous owner moved battery to console) and/or breaker at the battery . I have no idea what they look like. Battery is 1.5 year old Interstate from Barrett's Marine in Spring Lake that is always on tender off season and tender hooked often during season. Appreciate your ideas.
jimh	posted 08-03-2013 08:50 AM ET (US) In the narrative (above) the power is completely lost, then, after the contents of the console (where the battery--the source of the electrical power--is located) are physically disturbed, the power is restored. Based on the narrative, there was a poor connection to the battery for the primary power distribution for either the positive or negative circuit. Movement of other contents in the console created movement of electrical conductors, which caused the connection to the battery to be restored. Check all electrical connections to the battery. Since both the engine power for starting and power for instruments were lost, the source seems likely to be in a circuit that affects both. I ignore the action of pushing the buttons on the helm console circuit breakers as it is unlikely they would affect the engine starter circuit. Usually the engine starting circuit on an OMC outboard engine is powered through the main battery connection of the outboard. For more advise on diagnosing the cause of problems in an outboard engine starter circuit, see: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/electricStart.html For details of the ignition switch wiring of OMC engines, see http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ignitionSwitch.html
jimh	posted 08-03-2013 01:01 PM ET (US) I also offer an alternative theory, as follows: The chart plotter device experienced a non-recoverable fault in execution of its code, that is, it crashed. This caused the boat operator to become anxious. Due to anxiety, the boat operator did not properly execute the outboard engine starting procedure. A moment later, the chart plotter device restarted itself. The operator, now with a calm mind, properly executed the engine start procedure, and the engine started.
Freddy	posted 08-03-2013 03:00 PM ET (US) Pete, are you using 'wing nuts' on your battery?
PeteB88	posted 08-03-2013 08:59 PM ET (US) 1) thanks Jim for your detailed response and links. 2) the boat owner was anxious because we were close to a busy channel with boat traffic, wind and current - plus crew wanted to continue fishing. 3) Yup - Wing nuts - I've been thinking about wing nuts all day. Will get into the console tomorrow and appreciate any other advice/consultation and respect your time doing so.
PeteB88	posted 08-06-2013 06:53 PM ET (US) So do I assume no wing nuts?
jimh	posted 08-06-2013 09:56 PM ET (US) Pete--I would look at your battery to see what connection method was used. That would be better than to make any assumptions.
PeteB88	posted 08-07-2013 03:17 PM ET (US) I connect the wires to battery with wing-nuts.
jimh	posted 08-08-2013 08:59 AM ET (US) Using a wing-nut as the fastener for the battery terminal connections is not a very good idea in a small boat electrical system. Consider changing the fastener to a regular hex-nut with a flat washer and lock-washer. Or, you can use an elastic stop-nut. (But they can be expensive and hard to find in the battery terminal thread size.) I also recommend you check the terminal connectors of the conductors for the primary power distribution. Make sure they are clean and dry, and their surface is flat and free of any coatings. Use WD-40 and some 600-grit emery cloth to wet-sand them. That will clean up the surfaces so you are getting a good conductive surface. When tightening the hex-nut fasteners on the battery terminals, be very careful with your wrench or ratchet driver--don't let the metal of the wrench come in contact with any other conductor! If there is limited space and you are worried about hitting another conductor with the wrench, apply a layer of Scotch 33+ electrical tape to the wrench or handle of the ratchet as a precaution. (Professional technicians that work on battery connections use special insulated tools to insure against accidental contact of the tool with another conductor.) Do not apply any grease to any of the conductors before you join them together at the battery terminal. Once the conductors are joined and you resolved all the problems of the intermittent connections, you can, if you wish, coat the connection with some protective grease or spray it with a battery terminal protective coating spray.
PeteB88	posted 08-08-2013 11:13 AM ET (US) Thanks Jim!
PeteB88	posted 08-14-2013 06:55 PM ET (US) Yup - loose wing nuts.
jimh	posted 08-17-2013 11:03 AM ET (US) Pete--I believe you are confirming that your connection of the power distribution cables to the battery terminals was done with wing-nut fasteners. Can you also confirm if you think the wing-but fasteners were the cause of the loss of all electrical power in the incident you described above? Did you find the wing-nut fasteners to be loose?
PeteB88	posted 08-22-2013 02:20 PM ET (US) I did indeed find the wing nuts loose, both terminals. It is likely I did not double check connections after installing battery and prior to operating the boat. I generally hand tighten the wing nuts and snug them with a tool like channel locks with insulated handles which I carry on board in my tool kit. Corrective action plan is to: 1) replace with proper hex head nuts with washers per recommendation or stop nuts. 2) strongly consider installing two battery system and switch. Thanks. Hopefully this helps other boaters with troubleshooting and proper equipment choices.
PeteB88	posted 08-22-2013 02:20 PM ET (US) I did indeed find the wing nuts loose, both terminals. It is likely I did not double check connections after installing battery and prior to operating the boat. I generally hand tighten the wing nuts and snug them with a tool like channel locks with insulated handles which I carry on board in my tool kit. Corrective action plan is to: 1) replace with proper hex head nuts with washers per recommendation or stop nuts. 2) strongly consider installing two battery system and switch. Thanks. Hopefully this helps other boaters with troubleshooting and proper equipment choices.