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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
Outrage 18/19 ?'s
|Author||Topic: Outrage 18/19 ?'s|
posted 06-05-2000 10:12 PM ET (US)
I am actively looking for an Outrage 18. I have seen several Outrage 19's offered for sale. I know the overall dimensions are similar. Does anyone have any experience with the 19? How do you feel about the quality compared with the 1980-1990 boats? Your observations would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
posted 06-06-2000 04:17 PM ET (US)
I had a 19' Outrage a 1972 hull for 25 years. The hull was the older style and rode accordingly. If you are going to boat in relatively flat water this Outrage was a beautiful boat. If the water got choppy so did the ride. I repowered with a 150 Johnson in 1985 this made the boat capable of mid 40's.Sweet package. I currently own a 22 1985 hull with a 225 Johnson the hull change is the reason I went into the 22. I love it and an currently looking for a 25 Outrage Cuddy. The 19 OUtrage on a tandem trailer was great for towing the 22 outrage is alot of Whaler to trailer.
posted 06-06-2000 05:07 PM ET (US)
Doug, the post-90` Whalers don`t even come close in quality to the Rockland, Mass. hulls. If I were you, I would go with a pre-90` 18-22ft. hull depending on you`re size needs. I own a 1973 `16 Currituck and take it everywhere on Lake Erie. Yes it rides rough in a chop, but for fishing it is the ultimate open fisherman.It has hardly any body roll. Good luck-JACK.
posted 06-06-2000 09:23 PM ET (US)
Thanks for your comments. I realize with some embarassment that I didn't make clear that the Outrage 19's I was talking about are the "relabeled" 18's that started appearing in 1991.
In any event, I apppreciate getting a response.
posted 06-08-2000 08:42 PM ET (US)
Doug: Beginning in 1990, the 18 Outrage was relabeled a "19" Outrage, but was the identical boat, including the Desert Tan gelcoat and traditional console. In 1991, the console was changed slightly, but everything else was the same. In 1992-1995,
the exterior hull mold was continued, but the interior mold was changed, and a 3rd liner shell added, adding about 600lb in weight to the overall hull. Boat was called a 19' Outrage II. Exterior color changed to white, and interior color changed to light gray, and twin engines could no longer be installed in favor of stern quarter seats.
Still a great Whaler and a friend has one in mint condition and loves it. (See boat on left in rafting picture in Cetecea, currently listed as page 12.) Don't get one with less than 150HP however, because of the extra weight. Jim G, if you're out there, give Doug some feedback on your boat!
posted 06-11-2000 04:35 PM ET (US)
We were just up on Grand Traverse Bay this past weekend, doing some boating. On Friday we ventured out NW into Lake Michigan, braving a growing North wind and seas in our 15-foot Sport. We ran about 3-4 miles across the East Arm of the bay from Elk Rapids to Old Mission Bay, took refuge in the lee of the Mission Peninsula, had lunch, and rolled back SE to Elk Rapids with the waves building into 4-foot beam seas and the wind up to 20 knots and building. We had to return with with the boat just below planing speed and a bow-up trim.
When we got back to the habor, there was a 1992 Outrage-19 preparing to cast off. I walked over to chat with the two fellows on board. They showed me a couple of nice Ciscoes they had caught. I mentioned to them that it was getting a little rough out there (with a North wind there is a 100 mile fetch). They shrugged, fired up the big Yamaha on the transom, motored out into the Bay, got up on plane, and took off to the NW, heading right into it.
I guess that for the 19-Outrage that sea condition was not a problem.
posted 06-13-2000 08:22 PM ET (US)
Great choice! The 18 Outrage is a fantastic boat, and so is the renamed 19, as is the 19II. The hulls are the same, with the deck on the 19II configured differently than the 18/19. Max horsepower for all three is 150.
The 18/19's are lighter, in fact a 115hp motor will push them to a speed close to 40, and with 63gal of fuel, at 3-4 mi/gal, the cruise range is great. They also offer a full stern seat, and up to six rods stored on the console.
The 19II is heavier, so probably needs all 150hp, has 80 gal fuel, only 4 rods on the console, and quarter seats vs a full stern seat. The console is much taller, with more storage, and affords much better wind protection in cold weather.
I have an 88 18 with a 115, and my friend has a 95 19II with a 150. He's a bit faster, 46 vs 40. Both are great boats, and easily trailerable, so mostly a matter of preference regarding deck configuration.
I'm struggling with this decision, but mine's for sale, and I expect it will bring close to $15000 here on the Chesapeake. As you probably know, these boats are sought after and holding value very well. I'm only selling the 18 because I also have a 22 (another great boat), and just purchased a 27 Offshore. Happy Whalering!
posted 06-14-2000 03:22 PM ET (US)
By the way what year is your 27 Offshore or is it new?
We have the older "87- 27 cc cuddy made up until the Offshore came out I think in '95.
posted 06-14-2000 04:51 PM ET (US)
Tom: The 27 Cuddy Cabin model you have was last offered in 1989, as was the Whaler 27.
1990 was the last year of the 27 Full Cabin, and the first year of a 27 Walkaround, still in the tan gelcoat colors, and the last 27's with Dougherty's design involvement. In 1991, all 27 hull colors changed to white, and the Offshore 27 was introduced. I think 1997 was it's last year, being replaced with the new 28 Conquest and Outrage.
posted 06-15-2000 06:49 AM ET (US)
Thanks Larry for the information but I'm a tad confused because I have a 1991 BW accessory catalog and our 27 cc cuddy is still shown and accessories offered!
Our 27 has a white gel-coated hull, and what I would say as white decks and cuddy top!
The Offshore 27 at least according to an article in Boating World August/Sept. issue 1995 review of the "new" Offshore 27 built by the Commercial Division (which uses the original Doughtery hull) lead me to believe the "Offshore 27" was introduced that year. However, I also have the '93 catalog which features it as a "new boat" along with the "27" Walk-Around Whaler drive! What gives Larry? Then I have 1997 recreational and commercial price books and they list the Offshore 27 recreational and the Guardian 27 commercial which as you say probably was the last year officially they were produced in the recreational line up.
I spoke with Chuck Bennett for close to an hour yesterday afternoon on a few questions regarding our 27 but then we switched to general conversation on the 27's and Whaler in general--- it appears the 27 cc cuddy introduced in '83 was in fact as you stated "Dougherty's involvement" --- actually it was totally Dougherty's "baby" according to Chuck --- Doughtery felt it was the best/finest design Whaler had ever produced! The hull for the current Guardian line are the same ones Doughtery designed (which isn't news to you or me)--- However, Chuck mentioned they have re-tooled the molds and are selling more than they ever had to primarily government agencies, but also quite a few to individuals! He mentioned when they introduced the Conquest 28 the 27 Offshore sales went south due to all the comfort extras offered on the Conquest!
This leads to think we should try and work up a section outlining the history of the Outrage with V hulls and the 27 hull design of '83 which was used for quite a few boat configurations. Then bring it all right up to the current line of big boat designs --- What do you think of that idea --- of course Jim would have to agree --- Larry?
posted 06-15-2000 06:56 AM ET (US)
Larry's correct, my '97 catalog shows the 27' Offshore and it's missing from the '98 catalog...Don
posted 06-15-2000 01:13 PM ET (US)
Tom: I have a 1990 Whaler catalog, and the 27 center console cuddy is not listed as a model, nor is the Whaler 27. The reason for this is that Dougherty designed a beautiful 27 Walkaround that was introduced that year(1990) to replace your model and the minimal cabin 27 Whaler. 1990 was also the last year of the 27 Whaler full Cabin model, once again with the sales emphasis now going to the 1991 Walkaround model (again slighly redesigned by the Reebok people and changed to white) and the new 27 Offshore, also designed by Peter VanLancker, but on the Classic 27 hull. I have a 1991 catalog, and these are the only 2 27's offered. I suspect your accessory catalog must have been a carry-over from the good-ole-days, before the Company was first sold. I have one of those also. After Reebok took over, accessory catalogs were no longer done, and still aren't. I can tell you one thing - if your 1983 hull is white, it was either a special order (factory could tell you that) or it's either been re-gelcoated (which I doubt) or "Awlgripped" with paint. Up until the company was sold, for an additional cost of at least $1000, you could get any color Whaler you wanted, so yours could have been ordered in white. I looked into a black outer hull for my 25 Outrage, for which they wanted $1000, but decided against it for fear of oxidation problems. Dark colored hulls are really tough to maintain and don't hold up well.
posted 06-15-2000 01:37 PM ET (US)
Tom: Further to your message, I was really glad to hear that new 27' molds have been made, as there was concern that this hull was about to disappear. And it does seem that government agencies and the military still want them, big time. After all, Whaler has nothing else to replace it with, with the 28 hull being such an initial disaster. It's really nothing but a glorified Sea Ray Express Cruiser, and not very pretty to look at in my opinion. Initial hulls were evidently defective, and some failed structurally (so I've heard on the grapevine, but Whaler replaced them all at no charge), and Dougherty had to be brought back in as a consultant to solve the problem! That's why the 1999 catalog showed an Outrage 28 on the cover, but none could be produced until the problems were corrected. I don't believe they even offer a Commercial Products 28 hull yet. But there's a good chance a full transom 27 Guardian is in my future! Love that boat!
posted 06-15-2000 02:46 PM ET (US)
Larry, I goofed that accessory catalog was still when CML owned them --- so 1989 had to be the last year for the 27 cc cuddy ---
Our 27 is in white and is a 1987, not an '83! I have the '87 catalog and they are shown in white also --- either that or I'm going color blind which very well could be -- chuckle ---
Well I must say Larry the 27 is one fine boat, I think you'd really love them --- only draw back they aren't conventional trailer boats --- as I mentioned having Amy's Whaler hauled, in fact they should have done it today, and it does run a few bucks each time you need to do something that's better done out than in ( not to mention the year round slip and winter storage charges)--- going to put a new transducer for the Interphase Sonar on --- touch up the bottom paint (where I soft grounded her twice--ugh-- coming up)--- clean up the topsides and install "Amy's Whaler" decals on both sides --- of course service the Yamaha's after that 1100 mile jaunt ---
Thanks for the low down knew you could straighten out my confusion --- Tom
posted 06-19-2000 12:51 PM ET (US)
Tom: I am sure that if your 87 hull is truly white gelcoat, new from the factory, it was a specially ordered boat. Having bought new Whalers in 1986 & 1989, bracketing your year, I know that none of the boats, from 9' up to 27, were available in white except for special, extra cost, gelcoat order. Everything was desert tan in those days. 1987-89 Tempatations were the exception, being made in light gray, as was the red 1988 15' Mischief.
posted 06-19-2000 01:58 PM ET (US)
Only a slight problem in this color thing for what it worth --- I have the 1986 catalog where the 27 cc cuddy (for that matter all the 27's) are featured and they are all white --- hulls, decks, and cabins --- had my wife and daughter take a look figuring the old man is going color blind --- unanimous all white (actually the Outrages appear bright white also in the catalog) --- asked the marina owner what color was our 27 on Saturday, gave me a strange look, well he said for lack of a better description I'd say bright white ---- and it doesn't appear to have been refinished since I discovered a nice gouge in the fore part of the pulpit and it looks white all the way to the glass --- think our 27 is on page 5 of Jim's photo area you can see the boat yourself at Clarks (the top of the cuddy in the sun shows the true color, hull is in the shade and the water is a light brown) -- --- anyway not worth arguing about chuckle --- just will have to mix of some "tan/white" repair muck to fix that gouge --- heh heh --- Tom
posted 07-12-2000 05:07 PM ET (US)
This is a response and a question that was raised by my buddy lgh back on 6-20-2000 in this thread (at the bottom). There is a discussion regarding the gelcoat color of the 18+ Outrages in the 80's. My '85 is a white gelcoat. My good friend has the same boat, but in a '86 model, and his is the desert tan. Was this the break on years from white as standard?? I didn't buy the boat new, so I'm still learning. I've played on Whalers since I was 5(and that was a long time ago), but never owned one myself. It's amazing what I'm learning through you guys!!!!
p.s. The two boats referenced ('85 & '86), are virtually identical otherwise. Notwithstanding, his is an standard transom, and mine is a full transom. I wondered if this could indicate a reason why the color difference.
posted 07-12-2000 07:20 PM ET (US)
I am going to stand my ground on this gelcoat color issue. In both 1985 (Jim's 18 Outrage year) and 1987 (Tom's 27 cuddy year) Whaler's standard recreational color was Desert Tan - period! Any boat with ORIGINAL white gelcoat, which both of you COULD have, would have been an additional cost special order, which also could be done in those days. Or of course, your boats could have been redone with new gelcoat or paint. The white hulls were often done for the yacht tender market, particularly in the smaller models. I just saw a huge yacht with a new white 22' Guardian on deck. I would contact the factory for your hull history, which would show it's original gelcoat color.
posted 07-13-2000 02:34 PM ET (US)
Mine must have been ordered with white, because the previous owner wasn't the most adept at docking (I have a few "holidays" where he misjudged the distance to the dock). Unfortunately, they cleary show the gelcoat layer through to the next layer. Another project that I'll use the great resources of this web-site. I am taking your advice in contacting Whaler. Maybe my model with full transom came with the white option. I'll let everyone know what they tell me.
posted 07-13-2000 02:53 PM ET (US)
What is interesting is that we are all sitting here discussing the options that were available with Whalers in the days of yore. My money is on the assumption that if you tried to special order ANYTHING from the factory today, you would be laughed out of the showroom. What a loss. We're lucky we have the boats we have. If for no other reason than they represent a time when Whaler built yachts - not boats. I hate to sound like I'm against progress, because I'm not. But progress can be accomplished with quality. Unfortunately, what I see coming down the pike, just IS NOT the same. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but hey, maybe someone will hear us out there in the world of "yachting".
posted 07-13-2000 03:46 PM ET (US)
Jim: There was no specific "white Gelcoat" option for your 1985 Outrage 18, but since, to begin with, it's a very rare full transom Sea Drive model, it could very well have been specially ordered with the white gelcoat. Maybe it began life as a yacht tender!
Regarding the new recreational division Whalers, I have been told it's no longer possible to order anything special from the factory. That's just the way Sea Ray does things. There is prior discussion about the year 2001 mandatory (or pay a lot extra) Merc engine.
posted 07-13-2000 04:18 PM ET (US)
haptjm, I totally agree with you. I can`t express enough how angry I am at Brunswick, Whaler, Sea Ray, whoever makes those awfull looking things they call Whalers now. And the quality-YUCK! And to tell me that I can`t delet the engine and you have to take a Mercury, that is a slap in the face. If that is what you call progress, then I will never-ever buy a new Whaler until they wise up and open up to the old way of selling and offering new Whalers. I am an easy going guy, but just the mention of Brunswick and new Whalers gets me frustrated. Good luck with you`re custom white Whaler. Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 07-14-2000 03:26 PM ET (US)
In regard to differant colored hulls,my '77 Montauk is two differant colors and was not ordered with any special color. The inside is desert tan and the outside hull is Outrage Gray(a offwhite color). If you go to spectrums web page and can see the list of colors there. Most all the Whalers in my area,Massachusetts are like this and this week belive me I have seen more whalers than I knew that are in my area,due to the Sail Boston 2000 festivities. Talk about a lot of boats!!!
posted 07-14-2000 11:31 PM ET (US)
Ali Oop, could you post Spectrum's website? Were they and OEM or aftermarket supplier?
Thanks... Rick D
posted 07-15-2000 07:00 AM ET (US)
Rick Spectrum is both types of supplier here is the link http://www.spectrumcolor.com/catalog.asp
posted 08-15-2000 02:27 AM ET (US)
I just wanted to add a couple of comments to this thread, more on the original topic...
During the Whaler NC/2000 Rendezvous, I had a chance to ride on three different Outrage-18/19 boats.
Coming up from Tobermory to Little Current I was on a 19 Outrage-II design, an immaculate boat belonging to Jim Gibson. I was very impressed with the way it handled the conditions in Georgian Bay. (Let me mention that Georgian Bay is about a hundred miles long and 40 miles wide, so it is really a sixth "Great Lake".)
We were the lead boat for our little flotilla, and we actually had to slow down a couple of times to let the others catch up. The boat handled the big water beautifully. I should mention that when we left Tobermory it was blowing 20+ knots and there were some big seas rolling up Lake Huron.
The tall console was a welcome windbreak. The boat had tons of little compartments molded into the liner that swallowed all the gear I threw aboard it.
It was powered with a 150 HP (Yamaha) and was very responsive.
Later, I was on a "classic" Outrage 18 with twin 115 HP Mercs. This was like driving a Ferrari. The boat would be up on plane at 35 MPH with only 2200 RPM...the max was near 6000 RPM, so there was basically unlimited speed available!
That boat rode well, but it does not have the same number of storage compartments and tall console that the newer boat does.
Finally, I reprised the crossing of Georgian Bay in a classic Outrage-18, powered by a single 150 HP Merc. This time we were going head to wind. We crossed the big open water with no problem. I would not say the ride was like sitting in your living room, but it was not at all scary. The waves were not as big as the first trip, but we were taking them on the nose.
The "classic" Outrages were c.1996 boats; the Outrage-II was a c.1992 boat. Anyone who says that the newer boat is not as well built as the "classic" is crazy! They are all great boats.
The trade-off is that the newer boat cannot handle twin engines; the transom is narrower due to the jump seats with storage below.
I guess the thing that sums up the ability of the 18/19 Outrage the best is the reaction of a guy I met on the dock at Flowerpot Island. We pulled in there for a potty break on the trip across Georgian Bay. The headwinds were pretty good from the SW, rolling up the lake with a 100 mile fetch. The guy on the dock asked were we came from. When I told him "Little Current' (about 65 miles away) he said, incredulously, "In THAT?" (pointing at the Whaler!)
"Yeah," I said, "it's a Whaler."
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