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Author Topic:   New 23 Conquest /Ed's new Whaler Thread

Tsuriki BW posted 10-27-2000 01:35 PM ET (US)
I have tried to copy the basics of the thread that kind of got off track. Thanks Clark and congraqtulations Ed. May the conversation continue...--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday on a sunny 85 degree day, Billy Clark (a life long friend) and I, plus three other adults launched his recent purchase, a 1998 23 Conquest with twin 135 Merc Optimax engines and took it for a shake-down on Spruce Creek and nearby ICW. There was a slight NW breeze and mild chop on the ICW and there was approx. 100 gals of fuel aboard! Bottom line... "I'm impressed". Here's how it went... shallow water slalom course to ICW and the boat tracked perfectly in hairpin turns and handled well, like a much smaller boat! Bank/roll was not severe but very noticable in hard turns but hull stuck like glue and refused to slide.. out on the ICW it ran great! Performance was very good and it came onto plane easily and quickly... I didn't even fool with the trim tabs (no doubt could have made hole shot even better if I had fiddled with it) . Speed at WOT was 45.5mph at 5400rpm... really cooking! I estimate that with two aboard and 50 gals of fuel it will top out at 47-48 and 5600.... again I didn't fiddle with it to try to squeeze out the last mph.. I noticed that the engines are mounted all the way down and raising engines up a bit might improve what is already great performance... will let you know if we try this! If it was my boat, I would already have them up higher and be fiddling with everything... just can't seem to let well enough alone... you see, I have this problem and will never change... hope not anyway.. will keep you posted.. Happy Whalin'... Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy
PS> Layout of the cabin is well though out and comfortable for two. Helm seating is great with adjustable seat and tilt wheel and folding rear bench seat is a fantastic design... deck space has no toe-knockers.. boat has hardtop/elec box-fiddle board and even a "crows nest" atop the hardtop ..etc,,,etc...etc..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clark: I'm curious how you felt about the very high sides of this boat, compared to the low sided Revenge you have. I have not been in a 23 Conquest, but have driven a 23 Outrage, the same hull. I also thought the boat rode fine, with tons of power from a single 225 Merc, but I didn't like the "feel" of the cramped interior floor space and very high sides. Felt like I was standing in a deep bathtub! Seemed like this would be a difficult boat to fish from, compared to the much lower sided older Outrages I am used to. What do you think? With the large console, high sides, and forward high bow platform, I though the boat had a lot less usable floor & fishing space than the smaller, narrower, Classic 22 Outrage, and no comparison to the space I have in my 25 Outrage, even though hull weights and rated horsepower are the same as the 25. (Actually the 23 is heavier than the 25, and 1400 lbs heavier than the equivalently sized 22). I guess that's why Louie Kokinis went for the Guardian pictured on this site. Incidentally, we haven't heard much from Louie lately! Louie are you out there?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry, the "deep bathtub" analogy is correct! I didn't compare the 23 Conquest to the Revenges because I could write a book on the differences... First off ,, the 23 has very high sides and superstructure which makes it feel top heavy (this only in comparison to the older outrages and Revenges.. ) This is noticable in windy conditions and in hard turns! The handling of my 21 Revenge is in another league, more like a much smaller boat and the low freeboard is a plus to me (and to fishermen)!
So it's like comparing apples and oranges.. not apples to apples.... interior layout of the 23 is excellent and well thought out and very beamy! I prefer the 20-25 Walkthrough windshield (with sliding ladder) to the walkaround style of the conquest... but the conquest is easy to walk-around! The 23 feels like a lot larger boat than the 22 Revenge and certainly my 21... both the 23 Conquest and my 21 Revenge are sitting on trailers, side by side, and it's interesting to stand back and notice that there are only a few inches difference in length but the top of windshield on the 21 is even with the rub-rail/coaming on the 23... Bottom line is that I/m partial to the 21 as it sleeps the same no. of people and has as much deck space and weighs half as much... draws less etc...etc...etc.... but these hulls are so different...... I will report on my neighbor's 22 Revenge WT/WD(1988) with new 2001 Merc Optimax 225 as soon as he gets the gages hooked up etc... now that will be a rocket.. and he's thinking of putting a power jack plate on it! Can't wait to get my hands on that one.... later... Happy Whalin'.. Clark
posted 10-25-2000 10:02 PM ET (US)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Clark,
Are we still talking about the 23 Conquest
on this Thread?
Yes I finally decided,I purchased a
23 bathtub, No I mean Outrage.
It has twin 135 Optis,digital gauges,
factory T-top,Lee outriggers,optional
fishing package,deluxe leaning post.
As of now I am very,very pleased with
My new Whaler.No its not paid for yet.
My new Slide-on Alum. 4 bunk trailer
works great.And I had the boat cover
made just in time because the leaves
are begining to fall off our oak trees.
I've just started installing electronics.
I choose a standard VHF this time.
And the 168 Garmin chartplotter/sounder.
I'm taking it back to the dealer to
work out a few things.Like I said as of
now I'm very happy with our Whaler.
Ed Stone
bigz posted 10-27-2000 01:40 PM ET (US)
Hey Greg nice work --- Tom
Tsuriki BW posted 10-27-2000 01:47 PM ET (US)
Tom, Would love to be discussing "my new 23' Whaler". Still, I still have a lot of fun left with my Dauntless 14. BUT... being able to learn about what could be my next Whaler on this forum makes the dream even better.
Tsuriki (Greg)
bigz posted 10-27-2000 02:07 PM ET (US)
Well Greg even this old woodchuck skinner keeps on dreaming --- don't cost nothing --- do it all the time --- don't get me no wheres fast --- but at least I'm a still dreaming ----
Sure your dreams will come true just takes time --- and there is no better place to feed those dreams --- yep right here on the Classic Whaler forum --- Z
Yoav Harlap posted 11-02-2000 02:57 PM ET (US)
Hi Guys,
I just ordered a 2000 Conquest 23 with twin 250hp Optimax. I am eager to learn which type of props I should be using. Any other comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.
blackdog posted 11-02-2000 03:07 PM ET (US)
can you still get a 2000 model this late in the year?
Yoav Harlap posted 11-02-2000 03:20 PM ET (US)
Sorry, it might be a 2001 but I think they're identical. I get the engines separate cause its much cheaper for me this way.
Yoav Harlap posted 11-02-2000 03:30 PM ET (US)
Soory for a printing mistake. Its twin 150hp Optimax...should be sufficient!
Clark Roberts posted 11-03-2000 07:43 AM ET (US)
The 23 that I ran has Merc "Mirage plus" stainless props @ 17" pitch. Your 150's will be spinning a higher ratio (1.87:1 vs 2.O:1 for the 135's) so that suggests that 17" pitch should be correct for the 150Optis.
The extra hp should pull the higher ratio to about same RPM at Wot.... Happy Whalin.. Clark
bigz posted 02-04-2001 03:48 PM ET (US)
Clark Roberts, did you ever get a comparison "formulated" between BC's 23 Conquest and David's Revenge with the Whalerdrive?
If so would certainly like to hear your comments on these Whalers and probably a few others would also --- Tom
Clark Roberts posted 02-07-2001 08:59 AM ET (US)
Tom, I haven't made a direct comparison of the 23 CQ and David's 22 Revenge. David is still working on interior and just got his GPS and VHF installed... engine is not fully broken in yet. So that others can appreciate, I will give impressions thus far:
1988 REVENGE 22 WALK THROUGH/WHALER DRIVE (WT/WD)WITH 2001 MERC 225 OPTI IMPRESSIONS:
A neighbor and good buddy of mine, David Day, drove from Daytona Beach, Fla. to Orchard Beach, Maine and returned with a very grungy (painted bottom and mildew) 1988 22 Revenge WT/WD. This boat, especially the WD model was his dream boat and he had been dreaming for a long time.. now he had captured one of these elusive cetaceans! It looked like a mountain behind his little black Blazer! He removed the old, tired 225 Evinrude and plopped a new 2001 225 Merc Opti on her WD and then had the bottom paint removed... next, he had his boat house rebuilt to make a berth for the 22.. He has been cleaning, buffing, and making modifications for about 6 months now and is still working.. The boat looks like new and goes like a bat.. It swings a 15" pitch Quicksilver Mirage Plus (with plugs in)and engine is mounted in lowest position on WD. The hole shot is fierce and may be quicker to plane than Billy's 23 CQ although not sure about that... Billy and Dave have not yet had their boats out together (they will surely find out then).. The top speed on Dave's 22, Billy's 23 CQ and my old 1979 Revenge 21(135 Opti) seem to be about the same at around 45mph.. I think that when Dave's 225 gets fully broken in that it will be fastest of the three... the mid-range accelleration of all three boats is so very strong. My impression is that the optimax is stronger on hole shot and mid-range than the carbed or EFI Mercs of the same hp but the opti's aren't as fast top end... just my impression, mind you. BTW, the Merc tech reps agree on this point. Anyway the fuel mileage of the Opti makes up for it.. My 21 with 135 Opti gets average of around 5mpg and on a steady 3500rpm (28mph) gets around 6mpg! Better than a 14 footer and an older 40hp... go figure!!! Billy's 23 CQ is getting around 3mpg as far as we can tell and David's 22 is getting 3.5mpg per his high tech "SmartCraft" gauges . The 22 R doesn't bank (lean) as much on turns as the 23 and is not as influenced by cross winds, no doubt due to the higher profile and hardtop on the 23.. and the 23 has trim tabs to boot! The WhalerDrive is great as it affords more cockpit space and a solid transom! In its size range , the 22 Revenge with WD is hard to beat... Also one of the best looking rigs afloat...IMHO! Nice thing is that Billy loves his 23 CQ, David is thrilled with his 22 Revenge, and I'm carried away with my old 21 REvenge! This is a combination of three great Whalers, each unique and with unique features, but 100% Whaler through and through! We're taking a 600 mile cruise (Daytona Beach to Capitva Island and return) in late April.. will submit trip report! Pass the Spam and crackers... Happy Whalin'.. Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy
bigz posted 02-12-2001 05:40 AM ET (US)
Clark thank you for the response ---
Believe you gave us a pretty darn good run down even thought you haven't made a "direct comparison" yet = chuckle
Will be interested in the April trip report --
Tom
Ed Stone posted 02-15-2001 10:22 PM ET (US)
Hey Clark,
On your april trip when you say captiva
island,is that near sanibel on the west
coast of Fla.? If so thats one heck of a
trip from your bend in the river.
Ed Stone
Clark Roberts posted 02-16-2001 05:39 AM ET (US)
Ed, yes, that's Captiva near Sanibel. I have made the run before and it's about 340miles! We plan to overnight at Indiantown - keep boats at Marina and get Seminole Inn in town to pick us up. etc. as each boat will have ladies aboard. We will stay at Jenson's Twin Palms on Captiva and make day cruises to Boca Grande/Cabbage Key, Punta Gorda/Peace River, and Naples/Everglades City. On return we will overight at motel in Ft. Pierce. There will be my 21 Revenge, David Day's 22 revenge, Billy Clark's 23 Conquest and alas, a Grady White 247 CC (my neighbor Richard Rosier's new rig) with 250 Yamaha. Just kidding, I don't mind cruising with other makes 'cause it makes the Whaler look good by comparison and anyway Richard has two Whalers in addition to the GW. It will be interesting to compare the fuel mileage since it's a long run and the data should be good. All have Merc Optimax's except for the GW. Take care of that new baby girl! Later.. Clark

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Author	Topic: New 23 Conquest /Ed's new Whaler Thread
Tsuriki BW	posted 10-27-2000 01:35 PM ET (US) I have tried to copy the basics of the thread that kind of got off track. Thanks Clark and congraqtulations Ed. May the conversation continue...-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yesterday on a sunny 85 degree day, Billy Clark (a life long friend) and I, plus three other adults launched his recent purchase, a 1998 23 Conquest with twin 135 Merc Optimax engines and took it for a shake-down on Spruce Creek and nearby ICW. There was a slight NW breeze and mild chop on the ICW and there was approx. 100 gals of fuel aboard! Bottom line... "I'm impressed". Here's how it went... shallow water slalom course to ICW and the boat tracked perfectly in hairpin turns and handled well, like a much smaller boat! Bank/roll was not severe but very noticable in hard turns but hull stuck like glue and refused to slide.. out on the ICW it ran great! Performance was very good and it came onto plane easily and quickly... I didn't even fool with the trim tabs (no doubt could have made hole shot even better if I had fiddled with it) . Speed at WOT was 45.5mph at 5400rpm... really cooking! I estimate that with two aboard and 50 gals of fuel it will top out at 47-48 and 5600.... again I didn't fiddle with it to try to squeeze out the last mph.. I noticed that the engines are mounted all the way down and raising engines up a bit might improve what is already great performance... will let you know if we try this! If it was my boat, I would already have them up higher and be fiddling with everything... just can't seem to let well enough alone... you see, I have this problem and will never change... hope not anyway.. will keep you posted.. Happy Whalin'... Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy PS> Layout of the cabin is well though out and comfortable for two. Helm seating is great with adjustable seat and tilt wheel and folding rear bench seat is a fantastic design... deck space has no toe-knockers.. boat has hardtop/elec box-fiddle board and even a "crows nest" atop the hardtop ..etc,,,etc...etc.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Clark: I'm curious how you felt about the very high sides of this boat, compared to the low sided Revenge you have. I have not been in a 23 Conquest, but have driven a 23 Outrage, the same hull. I also thought the boat rode fine, with tons of power from a single 225 Merc, but I didn't like the "feel" of the cramped interior floor space and very high sides. Felt like I was standing in a deep bathtub! Seemed like this would be a difficult boat to fish from, compared to the much lower sided older Outrages I am used to. What do you think? With the large console, high sides, and forward high bow platform, I though the boat had a lot less usable floor & fishing space than the smaller, narrower, Classic 22 Outrage, and no comparison to the space I have in my 25 Outrage, even though hull weights and rated horsepower are the same as the 25. (Actually the 23 is heavier than the 25, and 1400 lbs heavier than the equivalently sized 22). I guess that's why Louie Kokinis went for the Guardian pictured on this site. Incidentally, we haven't heard much from Louie lately! Louie are you out there? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Larry, the "deep bathtub" analogy is correct! I didn't compare the 23 Conquest to the Revenges because I could write a book on the differences... First off ,, the 23 has very high sides and superstructure which makes it feel top heavy (this only in comparison to the older outrages and Revenges.. ) This is noticable in windy conditions and in hard turns! The handling of my 21 Revenge is in another league, more like a much smaller boat and the low freeboard is a plus to me (and to fishermen)! So it's like comparing apples and oranges.. not apples to apples.... interior layout of the 23 is excellent and well thought out and very beamy! I prefer the 20-25 Walkthrough windshield (with sliding ladder) to the walkaround style of the conquest... but the conquest is easy to walk-around! The 23 feels like a lot larger boat than the 22 Revenge and certainly my 21... both the 23 Conquest and my 21 Revenge are sitting on trailers, side by side, and it's interesting to stand back and notice that there are only a few inches difference in length but the top of windshield on the 21 is even with the rub-rail/coaming on the 23... Bottom line is that I/m partial to the 21 as it sleeps the same no. of people and has as much deck space and weighs half as much... draws less etc...etc...etc.... but these hulls are so different...... I will report on my neighbor's 22 Revenge WT/WD(1988) with new 2001 Merc Optimax 225 as soon as he gets the gages hooked up etc... now that will be a rocket.. and he's thinking of putting a power jack plate on it! Can't wait to get my hands on that one.... later... Happy Whalin'.. Clark posted 10-25-2000 10:02 PM ET (US) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Clark, Are we still talking about the 23 Conquest on this Thread? Yes I finally decided,I purchased a 23 bathtub, No I mean Outrage. It has twin 135 Optis,digital gauges, factory T-top,Lee outriggers,optional fishing package,deluxe leaning post. As of now I am very,very pleased with My new Whaler.No its not paid for yet. My new Slide-on Alum. 4 bunk trailer works great.And I had the boat cover made just in time because the leaves are begining to fall off our oak trees. I've just started installing electronics. I choose a standard VHF this time. And the 168 Garmin chartplotter/sounder. I'm taking it back to the dealer to work out a few things.Like I said as of now I'm very happy with our Whaler. Ed Stone
bigz	posted 10-27-2000 01:40 PM ET (US) Hey Greg nice work --- Tom
Tsuriki BW	posted 10-27-2000 01:47 PM ET (US) Tom, Would love to be discussing "my new 23' Whaler". Still, I still have a lot of fun left with my Dauntless 14. BUT... being able to learn about what could be my next Whaler on this forum makes the dream even better. Tsuriki (Greg)
bigz	posted 10-27-2000 02:07 PM ET (US) Well Greg even this old woodchuck skinner keeps on dreaming --- don't cost nothing --- do it all the time --- don't get me no wheres fast --- but at least I'm a still dreaming ---- Sure your dreams will come true just takes time --- and there is no better place to feed those dreams --- yep right here on the Classic Whaler forum --- Z
Yoav Harlap	posted 11-02-2000 02:57 PM ET (US) Hi Guys, I just ordered a 2000 Conquest 23 with twin 250hp Optimax. I am eager to learn which type of props I should be using. Any other comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.
blackdog	posted 11-02-2000 03:07 PM ET (US) can you still get a 2000 model this late in the year?
Yoav Harlap	posted 11-02-2000 03:20 PM ET (US) Sorry, it might be a 2001 but I think they're identical. I get the engines separate cause its much cheaper for me this way.
Yoav Harlap	posted 11-02-2000 03:30 PM ET (US) Soory for a printing mistake. Its twin 150hp Optimax...should be sufficient!
Clark Roberts	posted 11-03-2000 07:43 AM ET (US) The 23 that I ran has Merc "Mirage plus" stainless props @ 17" pitch. Your 150's will be spinning a higher ratio (1.87:1 vs 2.O:1 for the 135's) so that suggests that 17" pitch should be correct for the 150Optis. The extra hp should pull the higher ratio to about same RPM at Wot.... Happy Whalin.. Clark
bigz	posted 02-04-2001 03:48 PM ET (US) Clark Roberts, did you ever get a comparison "formulated" between BC's 23 Conquest and David's Revenge with the Whalerdrive? If so would certainly like to hear your comments on these Whalers and probably a few others would also --- Tom
Clark Roberts	posted 02-07-2001 08:59 AM ET (US) Tom, I haven't made a direct comparison of the 23 CQ and David's 22 Revenge. David is still working on interior and just got his GPS and VHF installed... engine is not fully broken in yet. So that others can appreciate, I will give impressions thus far: 1988 REVENGE 22 WALK THROUGH/WHALER DRIVE (WT/WD)WITH 2001 MERC 225 OPTI IMPRESSIONS: A neighbor and good buddy of mine, David Day, drove from Daytona Beach, Fla. to Orchard Beach, Maine and returned with a very grungy (painted bottom and mildew) 1988 22 Revenge WT/WD. This boat, especially the WD model was his dream boat and he had been dreaming for a long time.. now he had captured one of these elusive cetaceans! It looked like a mountain behind his little black Blazer! He removed the old, tired 225 Evinrude and plopped a new 2001 225 Merc Opti on her WD and then had the bottom paint removed... next, he had his boat house rebuilt to make a berth for the 22.. He has been cleaning, buffing, and making modifications for about 6 months now and is still working.. The boat looks like new and goes like a bat.. It swings a 15" pitch Quicksilver Mirage Plus (with plugs in)and engine is mounted in lowest position on WD. The hole shot is fierce and may be quicker to plane than Billy's 23 CQ although not sure about that... Billy and Dave have not yet had their boats out together (they will surely find out then).. The top speed on Dave's 22, Billy's 23 CQ and my old 1979 Revenge 21(135 Opti) seem to be about the same at around 45mph.. I think that when Dave's 225 gets fully broken in that it will be fastest of the three... the mid-range accelleration of all three boats is so very strong. My impression is that the optimax is stronger on hole shot and mid-range than the carbed or EFI Mercs of the same hp but the opti's aren't as fast top end... just my impression, mind you. BTW, the Merc tech reps agree on this point. Anyway the fuel mileage of the Opti makes up for it.. My 21 with 135 Opti gets average of around 5mpg and on a steady 3500rpm (28mph) gets around 6mpg! Better than a 14 footer and an older 40hp... go figure!!! Billy's 23 CQ is getting around 3mpg as far as we can tell and David's 22 is getting 3.5mpg per his high tech "SmartCraft" gauges . The 22 R doesn't bank (lean) as much on turns as the 23 and is not as influenced by cross winds, no doubt due to the higher profile and hardtop on the 23.. and the 23 has trim tabs to boot! The WhalerDrive is great as it affords more cockpit space and a solid transom! In its size range , the 22 Revenge with WD is hard to beat... Also one of the best looking rigs afloat...IMHO! Nice thing is that Billy loves his 23 CQ, David is thrilled with his 22 Revenge, and I'm carried away with my old 21 REvenge! This is a combination of three great Whalers, each unique and with unique features, but 100% Whaler through and through! We're taking a 600 mile cruise (Daytona Beach to Capitva Island and return) in late April.. will submit trip report! Pass the Spam and crackers... Happy Whalin'.. Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy
bigz	posted 02-12-2001 05:40 AM ET (US) Clark thank you for the response --- Believe you gave us a pretty darn good run down even thought you haven't made a "direct comparison" yet = chuckle Will be interested in the April trip report -- Tom
Ed Stone	posted 02-15-2001 10:22 PM ET (US) Hey Clark, On your april trip when you say captiva island,is that near sanibel on the west coast of Fla.? If so thats one heck of a trip from your bend in the river. Ed Stone
Clark Roberts	posted 02-16-2001 05:39 AM ET (US) Ed, yes, that's Captiva near Sanibel. I have made the run before and it's about 340miles! We plan to overnight at Indiantown - keep boats at Marina and get Seminole Inn in town to pick us up. etc. as each boat will have ladies aboard. We will stay at Jenson's Twin Palms on Captiva and make day cruises to Boca Grande/Cabbage Key, Punta Gorda/Peace River, and Naples/Everglades City. On return we will overight at motel in Ft. Pierce. There will be my 21 Revenge, David Day's 22 revenge, Billy Clark's 23 Conquest and alas, a Grady White 247 CC (my neighbor Richard Rosier's new rig) with 250 Yamaha. Just kidding, I don't mind cruising with other makes 'cause it makes the Whaler look good by comparison and anyway Richard has two Whalers in addition to the GW. It will be interesting to compare the fuel mileage since it's a long run and the data should be good. All have Merc Optimax's except for the GW. Take care of that new baby girl! Later.. Clark