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Author Topic:   Planing Problems

Ventura16 posted 02-26-2001 09:53 AM ET (US)
Hi all, I'm a newbie to this forum, so please be kind ;-). I have a 2000 Ventura 16 which I used throughout last summer. It is powered by a Mercury 90 hp. with stock prop. I noticed that it seemed to take quite a bit to get the boat on plane, even with just one on board. With two on board, it would plane rapidly if the other person was in the bow, otherwise, it would struggle to plane. Once on plane, it seemed to take quite a bit of speed to keep it there. My Merc has power trim/tilt, and I needed to run it almost all the way in to achieve any planing success...with the motor trimmed out, the problem was worse. I also noticed quite a bit of torque-steer. I am contemplating trim tabs, but the transom of the V16 is pretty crowded...especially on the starboard side where there is a swim ladder that would have to be either moved or not used. The other alternative seems to be a Doel fin or similar or maybe a prop change.
I wonder if anyone else with a V16 or Dauntless 16 (same hull) has experienced similar problems. Any words of wisdom from you guys for a new Whaler owner?
triblet posted 02-26-2001 10:10 AM ET (US)
"stock prop" isn't very meaningful. What's
the diameter and pitch?
Chuck
Peter posted 02-26-2001 11:06 AM ET (US)
Just checked Whaler's web site and it says the 16 Ventura weighs 1350lbs. It seems to me that a 90 would be a little on the low side for power on a boat of this weight (it would be like putting a 90 on a classic 18 Outrage which is almost unheard of). Further, a 16 foot boat shouldn't need trim tabs. I would take it back to your dealer and make them check that it is propped correctly. Whatever the pitch of the "stock prop", it sounds like you need to get a prop with lower pitch, which will improve your time-to-plane and reduce your top speed. However, your dealer should be able to select a prop which will achieve the correct WOT rpm with your normal load conditions (one person, two persons, etc.)
Maerd posted 02-26-2001 12:03 PM ET (US)
Everyone needs a spare. I bought a new four blade (have not tried it yet) when I bought my new Whaler and I carry it and tools if I am going far from my marina. (I have water towing nearby). Think how a long weekend could be spoiled because you dinged your prop on Friday night and cannot find/buy another one until Tuesday. Plus - it allows you to test a different pitch etc. EBAY has used props for sale. Good Luck
Dick posted 02-26-2001 07:26 PM ET (US)
I have run the 16 Dauntless with a 90 and it flies, as the specs for the 16 Ventura are identical it sounds like the wrong prop or the engine mounted to low.
For the 16 Dauntless Boston Whaler reccomends a 12.75 x 21 prop and the engine mounted 1 hole up. When I worked at the dealership I found that the prop reccomendations were more for top end rather than hole shot. I would check with your dealer and test a different prop. If you drop to a 19 pitch watch the rpm.
Dick
Ventura16 posted 02-26-2001 07:49 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the input! I checked through all my paperwork and can't find any indication of which prop is actually on the motor. I even went out to the boat tonight (easier said than done with all the snow, slush and ice in the way!) to look at the prop...no part number or dimensions that I can see.
BTW, I didn't mean to imply that the boat was slow or underpowered...it's a little rocket and it absolutely flies once it is on plane...it just seems to take a really long time to get planing and the bow rise is quite high in the process...I think I'd be willing to sacrifice a little top end speed to get a better hole shot...pardon my ignorance, but is a 4-blade prop inherently better for that?
I'll check the mounting hole position...that's something I hadn't thought of...and I will have my dealer check it out when I take the boat in for it's Spring visit...
Thanks again,
Tom
Ventura16 posted 02-26-2001 07:54 PM ET (US)
BTW, Sorry for the double post on my initial letter! I'm not sure how that happened, but I'll try not to do it again. ;-)
Tom
B Bear posted 02-26-2001 10:09 PM ET (US)
I have a Dauntless 16 with a 90 four-stroke Honda. The prop that is on it now is a 3X13.5X15 R. This is located on the side of the prop. Sometimes the numbers will be found around the hub.
A two-stroke has a higher torque and a higher power to weight ratio so the prop size I am running may not have any bearing on what is happening with your V16.
This hull has a tendency (from my experience and from what I have heard from other owners) to nose up when coming out of the hole. Normally I quickly get on plane with the trim about all the way down. I have come up on plane while slowly accelerating without nosing up.
Once on plane I can raise the engine tilt close to mid positon afterwards then she will start to porpouse slightly.
If you check out the performace section of the forum you will find some interesting threads on: Stainless Steel props, Doel fins, Comprops.
The members of this forum are intelligent, experienced good folk. For myself, I am new like you. So I am considering experimenting with the comprops, which are inexpensive and recommended for spares, to see how different pitches will work. The other thing I would like to do, but am slighty nervous about drilling holes in my cavitation plate, is to install dole fins. I have a feeling this is the right thing to do. Many of the members that have Classics swear on these and that is good enough for me.
Bear
Ventura16 posted 02-27-2001 09:23 AM ET (US)
Thanks, Bear! It sounds from your description like your boat behaves similarly to mine (but maybe not quite as drastically) . Maybe I'm being picky, but it just seems like it should get up on plane more easily. Since I don't have any other Whaler experience, I'm relating it to other boats I've owned and driven...
The Comprop idea is a good one. They are a lot less expensive to experiment with than SS. I wonder if there is really any correlation between the performance of a Comprop and a SS one of the same diameter and pitch. I've heard that the performance of early Comprops were not so hot, but that recent ones are much better...no personal experience, though.
I know exactly what you mean about drilling holes...the Doel fin sounds like a good solution to some of my issues...and in reading the older postings on the forum, there are certainly plenty of people who seem to swear by them. But, there is definitely something that makes me queasy about getting out the drill and having at my brand-new motor! And I hate to do anything that would void my warranty...I'm sure Mercury would have something to say about it. Maybe after it's accumulated a scratch or two it'll be easier for me. ;-)
Tom
dgp posted 02-27-2001 07:39 PM ET (US)
You might try the Mercury Marine web site's prop selector. It'll probably recommend a SS High Five or 4 blade Trophy prop. As others have recommended "work with your dealer"! Don
Whaletosh posted 03-01-2001 01:35 PM ET (US)
don't hesitate to try a hydrofoil. Yo can always fill the holes with MarineTek.
Try a four bladed Comprop or a Stainless prop. I think, but may be wrong, that Mercury runs a loaner program. Check with your dealer.
Sean
B Bear posted 03-04-2001 02:23 AM ET (US)
Alright Whaletosh, I went out and bought doel-fins today, there was one other hydrofoil there "Tigershark VO". It was an interesting design. Never heard of it before though. I'll try the foils out later on when I get my boat out of storage. I'll let you know what happens, I'll do a control run without them then install the foils and compare numbers, trim and handling.
Bear

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Author	Topic: Planing Problems
Ventura16	posted 02-26-2001 09:53 AM ET (US) Hi all, I'm a newbie to this forum, so please be kind ;-). I have a 2000 Ventura 16 which I used throughout last summer. It is powered by a Mercury 90 hp. with stock prop. I noticed that it seemed to take quite a bit to get the boat on plane, even with just one on board. With two on board, it would plane rapidly if the other person was in the bow, otherwise, it would struggle to plane. Once on plane, it seemed to take quite a bit of speed to keep it there. My Merc has power trim/tilt, and I needed to run it almost all the way in to achieve any planing success...with the motor trimmed out, the problem was worse. I also noticed quite a bit of torque-steer. I am contemplating trim tabs, but the transom of the V16 is pretty crowded...especially on the starboard side where there is a swim ladder that would have to be either moved or not used. The other alternative seems to be a Doel fin or similar or maybe a prop change. I wonder if anyone else with a V16 or Dauntless 16 (same hull) has experienced similar problems. Any words of wisdom from you guys for a new Whaler owner?
triblet	posted 02-26-2001 10:10 AM ET (US) "stock prop" isn't very meaningful. What's the diameter and pitch? Chuck
Peter	posted 02-26-2001 11:06 AM ET (US) Just checked Whaler's web site and it says the 16 Ventura weighs 1350lbs. It seems to me that a 90 would be a little on the low side for power on a boat of this weight (it would be like putting a 90 on a classic 18 Outrage which is almost unheard of). Further, a 16 foot boat shouldn't need trim tabs. I would take it back to your dealer and make them check that it is propped correctly. Whatever the pitch of the "stock prop", it sounds like you need to get a prop with lower pitch, which will improve your time-to-plane and reduce your top speed. However, your dealer should be able to select a prop which will achieve the correct WOT rpm with your normal load conditions (one person, two persons, etc.)
Maerd	posted 02-26-2001 12:03 PM ET (US) Everyone needs a spare. I bought a new four blade (have not tried it yet) when I bought my new Whaler and I carry it and tools if I am going far from my marina. (I have water towing nearby). Think how a long weekend could be spoiled because you dinged your prop on Friday night and cannot find/buy another one until Tuesday. Plus - it allows you to test a different pitch etc. EBAY has used props for sale. Good Luck
Dick	posted 02-26-2001 07:26 PM ET (US) I have run the 16 Dauntless with a 90 and it flies, as the specs for the 16 Ventura are identical it sounds like the wrong prop or the engine mounted to low. For the 16 Dauntless Boston Whaler reccomends a 12.75 x 21 prop and the engine mounted 1 hole up. When I worked at the dealership I found that the prop reccomendations were more for top end rather than hole shot. I would check with your dealer and test a different prop. If you drop to a 19 pitch watch the rpm. Dick
Ventura16	posted 02-26-2001 07:49 PM ET (US) Thanks for all the input! I checked through all my paperwork and can't find any indication of which prop is actually on the motor. I even went out to the boat tonight (easier said than done with all the snow, slush and ice in the way!) to look at the prop...no part number or dimensions that I can see. BTW, I didn't mean to imply that the boat was slow or underpowered...it's a little rocket and it absolutely flies once it is on plane...it just seems to take a really long time to get planing and the bow rise is quite high in the process...I think I'd be willing to sacrifice a little top end speed to get a better hole shot...pardon my ignorance, but is a 4-blade prop inherently better for that? I'll check the mounting hole position...that's something I hadn't thought of...and I will have my dealer check it out when I take the boat in for it's Spring visit... Thanks again, Tom
Ventura16	posted 02-26-2001 07:54 PM ET (US) BTW, Sorry for the double post on my initial letter! I'm not sure how that happened, but I'll try not to do it again. ;-) Tom
B Bear	posted 02-26-2001 10:09 PM ET (US) I have a Dauntless 16 with a 90 four-stroke Honda. The prop that is on it now is a 3X13.5X15 R. This is located on the side of the prop. Sometimes the numbers will be found around the hub. A two-stroke has a higher torque and a higher power to weight ratio so the prop size I am running may not have any bearing on what is happening with your V16. This hull has a tendency (from my experience and from what I have heard from other owners) to nose up when coming out of the hole. Normally I quickly get on plane with the trim about all the way down. I have come up on plane while slowly accelerating without nosing up. Once on plane I can raise the engine tilt close to mid positon afterwards then she will start to porpouse slightly. If you check out the performace section of the forum you will find some interesting threads on: Stainless Steel props, Doel fins, Comprops. The members of this forum are intelligent, experienced good folk. For myself, I am new like you. So I am considering experimenting with the comprops, which are inexpensive and recommended for spares, to see how different pitches will work. The other thing I would like to do, but am slighty nervous about drilling holes in my cavitation plate, is to install dole fins. I have a feeling this is the right thing to do. Many of the members that have Classics swear on these and that is good enough for me. Bear
Ventura16	posted 02-27-2001 09:23 AM ET (US) Thanks, Bear! It sounds from your description like your boat behaves similarly to mine (but maybe not quite as drastically) . Maybe I'm being picky, but it just seems like it should get up on plane more easily. Since I don't have any other Whaler experience, I'm relating it to other boats I've owned and driven... The Comprop idea is a good one. They are a lot less expensive to experiment with than SS. I wonder if there is really any correlation between the performance of a Comprop and a SS one of the same diameter and pitch. I've heard that the performance of early Comprops were not so hot, but that recent ones are much better...no personal experience, though. I know exactly what you mean about drilling holes...the Doel fin sounds like a good solution to some of my issues...and in reading the older postings on the forum, there are certainly plenty of people who seem to swear by them. But, there is definitely something that makes me queasy about getting out the drill and having at my brand-new motor! And I hate to do anything that would void my warranty...I'm sure Mercury would have something to say about it. Maybe after it's accumulated a scratch or two it'll be easier for me. ;-) Tom
dgp	posted 02-27-2001 07:39 PM ET (US) You might try the Mercury Marine web site's prop selector. It'll probably recommend a SS High Five or 4 blade Trophy prop. As others have recommended "work with your dealer"! Don
Whaletosh	posted 03-01-2001 01:35 PM ET (US) don't hesitate to try a hydrofoil. Yo can always fill the holes with MarineTek. Try a four bladed Comprop or a Stainless prop. I think, but may be wrong, that Mercury runs a loaner program. Check with your dealer. Sean
B Bear	posted 03-04-2001 02:23 AM ET (US) Alright Whaletosh, I went out and bought doel-fins today, there was one other hydrofoil there "Tigershark VO". It was an interesting design. Never heard of it before though. I'll try the foils out later on when I get my boat out of storage. I'll let you know what happens, I'll do a control run without them then install the foils and compare numbers, trim and handling. Bear