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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
Boston Whalers Built in Bucyrus, Ohio?
|Author||Topic: Boston Whalers Built in Bucyrus, Ohio?|
posted 03-29-2001 11:27 PM ET (US)
I recently read an online post in which the author claims that Boston Whaler boats are now being built at the BAJA Boat Division of SeaRay/Brunswick in Bucyrus, Ohio.
Say it isn't so, Joe, say it isn't so...
posted 03-30-2001 02:50 AM ET (US)
Jim: I think the 18 Dauntless is now being made at the Brunswick owned Baja (go fast boats) plant. Probably because of capacity problems in Edgewater, or maybe Baja sales are slow!
posted 03-30-2001 05:54 AM ET (US)
Old news on the BAJA plant --- yes the BAJA sales along with Sea Ray have slowed and people have been layed off at both places --- read news post from a few weeks ago (Bombardier topic) --- in addition Edgewater as of a week ago is still pumping out at full production ---
There is was a new President announced the other day for the Sea Ray group which includes BW -- she comes from a non-boating background --- interesting she worked in Britian for a number of years --- hmmm where is Buckly from???
posted 03-30-2001 10:09 AM ET (US)
According to this morning's Detroit Free Press, the new president of the Sea Ray Group is Cynthia Trudell. She has been the President of Saturn Motor Division of GM for the last few years.
posted 03-30-2001 10:16 AM ET (US)
Here is the full article on the changes at Brunswick
"Brunswick divisions get new presidents"
if anyone cares to read it --
posted 03-30-2001 02:38 PM ET (US)
Hasn't Saturn been a big problem for GM?
posted 03-31-2001 09:56 PM ET (US)
There is that little matter of the new Saturn L-Series... It seems that the Germans (Opel) never considered plastic panels when they originally designed the car. But it is the signature of the Saturn.
I wish her much success with Brunswick. We are forever linked to their success. Hopefully she won’t bring such inappropriate badge engineering to Whaler.
posted 03-31-2001 11:24 PM ET (US)
Jeez, I must be prescient!
I couple of months ago I was writing about Sea Ray's marketing being directed at women
Then earlier I was bitching..er complaining about how these modern boats have consoles that look like they belong in a Buick, and Sea Ray hires an executive from the Auto Industry!
And from SATURN! I think I have seen more
Who like to dress like Richard Simmons?
from "Sensitive New Age Guys"
posted 03-31-2001 11:54 PM ET (US)
Dick Fisher wouldn't believe what's happening to his Company. Bob Dougherty must be grossed out. Don't get me wrong, I love women and know they can do well in the business world. Sea Ray, maybe, but Boston Whaler, the boats women love to hate for lack of creature comforts??? Then again, Whalers aren't what they used to be. I think a woman runs Grady White also, so maybe this will work. It couldn't get any worse anyway.
posted 04-01-2001 01:58 AM ET (US)
Yah Larry, I always wondered why Whaler hasn`t hired Bob Daugherty on as the Cheif in charge! He would possibly head them in the right direction. It is sad for Dick Fisher, I hope he doesn`t know what`s going on with the Euro-Styling of his beloved B/W. On the other hand maybee he will step in and get things turned around, I can hear the little voice in Bob Daugherty`s head now: "Show Them The Way!" Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 04-01-2001 11:55 AM ET (US)
WAKE UP, Guys! It ain't 1980 anymore. Today, it's a Global, Politically Correct and Shareholder Value world in manufacturing.
Why would BW hire back "the Bob" when their orderboard has such a huge backlog?
Mercury Marine has several women today in key, senior management roles. Also I've noted in the last several years many US companies are run by English, Australian and French foreign nationals.
Top Management has to perform for both of their customers; stockholders and the people who actually buy the stuff they make. Regretably many are too focused on the stockholder who typically is only a customer for 9 months.
The good thing about auto industry execs coming to the boating world is that today the car guys use focus groups alot to plan the direction and design of new product offerings. So have faith and hope that some of us will be selected to be part of these focus groups to plan the boats of tomorrow. Don.
posted 04-01-2001 12:36 PM ET (US)
If you look at Sea Ray and who buys them, they are not real "boaters". Not dyed-in-the-wool boaters.
Much of their marketing focuses on the style of boating, of the lifestyle of boating, not really on the boat. They are always talking about getting away from the hectic pace of work on your Sea Ray, etc.
With the stock market down, many Sea Ray buyers are not going to be buying new boats. Their portfolios and stock options can't afford it.
Look for Whaler sales to hold up better. The people that buy them are not interested in the lifestyle of boating, they are interested in the boats of boating.
posted 04-01-2001 12:56 PM ET (US)
I would agree that the Boston Whaler sales will hold up better in a soft market. Folks who buy Whalers have done their research (typically) and value counts. Also, people in the Whaler end of the new boat market are more resilient in a down economy simply because they have more $$ to begin with. Regardless of what some may think, Whaler quality stands at the top of the industry, along with some other top brands like Grady-White and Pursuit.
I believe women in this industry are a real plus. Boating has historically been dominated by men, and with women entering, it diversifies ideas in both design and marketing, both of which are important in order to compete. As I've stated before, Whaler has to change along with everyone else or be left in the industry's prop wash!
posted 04-01-2001 01:07 PM ET (US)
You have dyed-in-the-wool boaters owning all brands. I think that most Boston Whaler owners feel like I do, there is no other boat. I am sure there are some Whaler owners out there that think it is just a boat.
Working in various dealerships over the years I have seen many dedicated, dyed-in-the-wool boaters that owned Sea Rays and even Bayliners. They may not be as dedicated as a Boston Whaler owner, wanting some creature comforts rather than having the wind and rain in their face.
posted 04-01-2001 08:15 PM ET (US)
I dont' think JimH said Sea Ray owners are not loyal to their brand. Actually they're just the opposite, very loyal and love the boats and keep buying them. They wouldn't have gotten to where they are, huge sales and controlling Boston Whaler, if they weren't popular. But I have also observed them to be fair weather boats, with fair weather owners. They are the Country Clubbers of the boating set, and boats have special storage racks for the liquor and wine bottles. They are a floating combination of your automobile, summer home and neighbor hood cocktail lounge (cocktail tables surronded by circular vinyl covered booths) all wrapped up in one. The droopy pointed bows are not well suited for heavy duty offshore work, and when the going gets to be 6-10Ft, you don't see many out, in spite of their size and weight. Offshore, they would tend to go through the waves, rather than over them. I guess that's where the Booze'n Cruise reputation came from. Forget fishing. I've also seen the charred remains of a few that have burned up, and the construction underneath all the glitz is not very impressive. The buyers of this style of craft are what JimH is referring to as "not real boaters" Leave that designation to the BW owners, the offshore cruising sailors, the Merritts, the Hatteras's, the Bertrams, even the Grady's and the like.
Regarding the many comments on this site justifying the new shapes as "Whaler needs to change or become irrelevent", this is not always true. There's another line of thought that say's "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". There's a middle ground somewhere, but it's elusive for the less sophisticated. Remember the Coke formula? This was the motto at the Company when Reebock took it over, and all it really amounted to was justifying a huge ego of a new Chief Designer, hell bent on canning the Dougherty era boats. Those changes precipitated a 6 year earnings and sales tail spin for Whaler, resulting in Brunswick picking a barely alive company up at a fire sale price. The Trademark and real estate was worth more than they paid for it. So back then, the idea of change to keep up or go out of business, went wrong. If you're going to make changes these days, you first need to know what you're doing, or you're still going to go out of business. Like OMC.
Sea Ray hasn't gambled with this. They have just re-made the Whalers into their form of boat that has done so well for them, never even trying to evolve the brand. By the time they got it, in all fairness, it had already been changed beyond recognition, so why bother going back? They didn't need to, they had the golden BW trademark. So it probably went something like this: "Let's just make it Sea Ray's brand of outboard fishing & bow rider boats, replacing the Lagunas and other Sea Ray outboards". Almost all Sea Rays are now sold with Stern Drives or inboards. BW has become a perfect compliment to the Sea Ray brand. Just look where they're now being sold. After all, Brunswick is in the outboard business also, so BW makes great sense from that veiwpoint. I can't believe they've let the boats go out without Mercs as long as they have. I'm sure it will end completely, and soon.
In the old days, Whalers were far superior to Grady White and Pursuit, both in yacht like quality and in considerably higher cost. Those were a notch down and not really much competition. Now BW is struggling to just stay equal with them. Both of those companies, incidentally, have succeeded by maintaining their original classic designs through slow evolution of changes. I still think the high sided, hard riding Grady's are one of the ugliest boats out there! Just never liked the lines.
posted 04-02-2001 08:40 AM ET (US)
I am always astonished when a boat maker's promotional literature points out the drink holders as a special feature.
On some of these boats the drink holders are molded into the laminate!
posted 04-02-2001 09:38 AM ET (US)
What's wrong with drink holders?
BW has them and notes so in their brochure.
Gotta have some place to set my beer when I'm fishing.
posted 04-02-2001 09:49 AM ET (US)
What's wrong with drink holders? On the
current Montauk they are right at knee
level, and kept getting knocked off. I
removed them before they removed my kneecaps.
The Roll Control tank racks have a drink
posted 04-02-2001 10:51 AM ET (US)
Interestingly, I watched an episode of BoatTest (or something like that) on Speedvision yesterday. Lo and behold, a test of the Edgewater 200CC. Want to turn back the clock, and see how the Dougherty hulls could have evolved into a 21st Century vessel. Yes time moves on, but there are many examples of older designs that were so good in the beginning, that they are still around today because of design and technological advancements. And they are the state-of-the-art of their genre. Remember the Porsche 911???
posted 04-02-2001 02:18 PM ET (US)
I don't want to stir the "new vs. classic" debate any more than necessary, but I do appreciate the "modern conveniences" (like cupholders, tilt steering wheel, etc. ) and the modern design elements of my boat. Of course, like anything else, when these are done to excess it isn't a good thing. For example, there are new minivans which have more than 12 cupholders (far exceeding the number of possible occupants)! ;-)
However, like many newer Whaler owners, I don't have any frame of reference for the decline in quality and design that classic Whaler owners lament. I chose my new Whaler instead of all the other boats available to me. It certainly wasn't because it was the least expensive...it was because it had qualities of construction and design which I recognized as superior to other products that were in my price range. I definitely don't think of my new Whaler as a case of settling for an inferior product!
Life goes on and nothing stays exactly the same. The Porsche 911 is a great example...I owned a 911 in the early 70's...that car would outwardly resemble today's Carreras, but that is all. Every single element of the 911 series has changed many times since they were introduced in 1963...body panels, chassis, engines, interior...and a few years ago, even Porsche admitted that they had "hit the wall" with the 911 design and brought out a new version, the 993.
From the postings and photos on this wonderful forum I have really come to appreciate the vision and greatness of the Whaler heritage...they've made a lot of great boats over the years. I like to think that my boat helps to carry on that heritage, not ruin it!
Just my opinion...
posted 04-02-2001 02:55 PM ET (US)
Bravo Tom (Ventura 16) well said, yes indeed well said.
I don't see anything constructively gained lamenting about what was, it is still just that what was!
Again nicely said!
PS always surprises me how a simple post as JimH first made and was answered can then deteriorate into ---- well yeah know what I mean --- and a certain member had sort of promised not to tread forth into this forum area after last summers explosion ;) --- then again it is a new year and times they do change ----
posted 04-02-2001 04:44 PM ET (US)
All I can add is Tony Soprano whacked Big Pussy on a Sea Ray -- snuff said.
But really, I met someone at a Xmas party last year (yeah he was Italian and in construction) -- anyway, his brand new 40 something foot Sea Ray broke down on the way to Florida. Seems that Sea Ray has two separate distribution points, something to do with his New York dealer having to reimburse getting the boat fixed by the Florida division of Sea Ray -- anyway it all resulted in huge time delays and an unhappy customer -- brand new boat needing major repair. The guy told me that they had to remove most of the boat to get at the engines. I have two words for Sea Ray - Car-pet. I like hardwood floors in da house and gelcoat in da boat - capisce?
posted 04-02-2001 05:22 PM ET (US)
Ventura, you made my point for me. The 911 evolved into it's current form. Never, at any point did Der Stuttgardt just wipe out the page and start over. Not all designs are good enough, to be done this way. I believe the Dougherty hulls were. That's all I'm saying. I believe if you look back at my postings regarding the modern Whalers, you'll find I have been very kind to them. They're great, quality vessels in a modern era. There is no other boat, if pressed to buy new, I would even consider. As far as a topic "deteriorating", I just called it as I saw it. Sorry to hurt anyone's feelings with my opinion. My old man had a saying, "Opinions are like A_ _holes, everyone's got one."
posted 04-02-2001 09:34 PM ET (US)
Well, I hate to generalize, but I guess that the big difference between a first-time, new Whaler owner (yours truly) and someone who has been involved with the brand for a while is how the current boats are regarded...and my ignorance is bliss!
I feel (rightly or wrongly) that my Ventura 16 does benefit from all the years of experience and heritage, while some of you feel differently. I hardly regard it as a glorified Sea Ray (although I don't think those are bad boats). At the same time, I am not offended at all by those who express a more purist classic Whaler perspective, it just isn't the same as mine. I love my Whaler (a lot!)...I've owned more than my share of boats, cars, and other guy-toys and the best ones always stick out from the rest...my new Whaler is one of them.
Like you said...everyone has an opinion...this happens to be mine. But, without differences of opinion, it's hard to have much of a dialogue...and that's what makes this forum cool. Don't worry about my feelings...I'm a big boy...and I enjoy the debate...I just know where I stand.
posted 04-02-2001 09:36 PM ET (US)
Oops, that's supposed to be just Tom...I don't know who that Tom Tom guy is. ;-)
posted 04-02-2001 09:40 PM ET (US)
Very sell spoken Tom! I feel much as you do about dialouge. Sameness can get boring and thats why we all love this COOL site! Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 04-02-2001 09:43 PM ET (US)
I'm agreement with Big Z!
Well said Ventura16!
There is no decline in quality, the constuction is still unique and materials used are still first class, just the design is different, yet they are still recognizable as Boston Whalers.
By the way, what has this have to do with the rumor that Boston Whalers are being built in Bucyrus, Ohio?
posted 04-03-2001 12:20 PM ET (US)
Just so you know it isn't a rumor. My Whaler dealer told me about this over a year ago. Sea Ray and Baja sales are down, Whalers are back ordered. So Brunswick is using the excess production capabilities at the Baja plant to make Dauntless 18s.
On another note; I belong to Boat/US's trailer boat club. In the latest issue of the newsletter tere is an interview with Boston Whalers current president. He stated that there are several new boats being planned for 2002; including a new 15 footer.
posted 04-03-2001 03:10 PM ET (US)
Overall that is good news. Things are good for Boston Whaler and if this keeps up maybe at the boat shows Sea Ray will end up taking a backseat to Boston Whaler. Making the SeaRay/Boston Whaler dealers more aware and informed about Boston Whalers.
It is also a good sign if Boston Whaler is expanding thier lines. Maybe the new 15 will have a classic hull design.
posted 04-03-2001 03:43 PM ET (US)
What I ment by classic hull design for the new 15 is that it would be logical for Boston Whaler to fill the gap between the 13Sport and the 17 Montauk.
posted 04-03-2001 05:37 PM ET (US)
It's interesting to hear about another try at replacing the original Sport 15. The first try didn't work out (Dauntless 15, 1st and revised model), so here we go again, but this one will be better. I have yet to hear about what was wrong with the first one, besides a little varnish work. I guess it was "broke", so it had to get "fixed". So now that they have proven winner with the new Sport 13, I suspect the 15 will be along those lines. Could be very nice, a "stretch" 13. I had assumed the Dauntless 14 was supposed to replace the Sport 15, and the Dauntless 16 was to replace the Montauk 16-7. Has something gone wrong here, or won't the more classic lines die? I wonder why they're doubling up on all the smaller size boats. A little bit for everybody, I guess.
posted 04-03-2001 09:23 PM ET (US)
I was a boat dealer in alaska in the 80S, when small boat sales were going down the toilet. My lines were Carver, Boston Whaler, Glastron and Bayliner.
Bayliner came up with a unique idea, factory packages. It worked, boats started to sell again, the prices were lower but in their case so was the quality but the concept worked. It got people into boating that previously couldn't afford it.
The new 13 is a perfect example of this, but the quality was not compromised. It would be logical now to see a factory packaged 15 at an affordable price.
I don't feel like Whaler has lessened the quality in any of their boats, the construction is still first class. Sure they have made some design changes to meet todays market and if they don't design for this market there won't be any Whaler.
I love my Montauk but there are newer designs that sure run a lot smoother.
God Bless all Whaler Owners
posted 04-03-2001 09:43 PM ET (US)
I think Dick makes a good point. NONE of us like all the Whalers, not all of the old or all of the new. There are some white models that I would own, and some desert tan models that I would not. But every single model is loved & appreciated by someone, and in a very dedicated way, even the Rages. This says a lot for the fierce loyalty to the brand and the various, sometimes quite very different, models they have been brought out over the last 43 years. I guess that's why a site like this is so popular, and so educational. There's room for everybody, even if we do have our little petty squabbles just for some excitement! But put everybody together on a dock, with their respective boats nearby, and we'd have a grand old time.
posted 04-03-2001 10:10 PM ET (US)
Allways like to meet Whaler owners regardless of what boat they own, the loyalty to the brand name is great.
Don't know what part of the country you are from but I put out a thread to see if there was any interest in a Whaler cruise, or whatever, here in the Pacific N.W. so far no responces.
Guess I have to end this with
posted 04-04-2001 01:10 PM ET (US)
I like all Whalers.
posted 04-12-2001 07:16 PM ET (US)
Would like to hear more about a NW get together.
You were the parts manager when I bought my Dauntless 14 from the Redmond dealer. Thanks for your help.
posted 04-12-2001 09:09 PM ET (US)
Have had several responces for the Puget Sound get together. I need some ideas on where and what people want to do. There are enough of us Whaler owners here in th NW that something should come together.
All of you feed me some info.
posted 04-13-2001 04:51 PM ET (US)
Let's keep up that conversation on a NW trip.
My current plan is to be in the Seattle area
the latter half of August. Had planned to begin asking for info in the coming weeks. Have cruising guide, now need help with best places to see and visit.
posted 04-13-2001 08:30 PM ET (US)
My thoughts were that mid to late August would be the best time weather wise.
All I need now is input from all who are interested. I have never set one of these up so all suggestions will be apreciated.
Need to do something that will include all boat sizes.
Any more comments on this please post them on the trips & renevous forum. It will be easier to track.
Thanks for the interest
posted 04-14-2001 07:09 AM ET (US)
Dick, you might want to move this thread over to the trips and rendezvous section --- think it might be getting lost in this post --- Tom
posted 05-26-2002 12:50 AM ET (US)
Not too many car guys out there.
Old style 911=993
Old style montauk=17
I like them both(996&170) but miss the origonals.
posted 06-05-2002 03:49 AM ET (US)
Man, you guys like to diss the newer Whalers. I'll run my 2001 Conquest with ANY past Whaler out there in ANY conditions,,Period. I like my cup holders, wish there were more. Tilt Wheel, love it, my wife can now comfortably captain the boat. Women run the world why shouldn't they run Brunwick? Have Ya'll ever thought that the new Whalers ARE just as good as the old news, but Pursuit, Contender, Cabo, and many of the competition for Whaler now are just plain making better boats. That is why Whaler is no longer considered alone at the top of the heap, other companies have discovered how to make a good boat.
posted 06-07-2002 01:25 AM ET (US)
I thought the original 911 was the 901 but
Peugeot had trademarked everything ending
in 01. And the REAL Project911 was the motor
that ended up in the 917.
posted 06-16-2002 04:19 PM ET (US)
Well said Jack, ol' buddy! My currituck which I love more than my Mr.Microphone doesnt have a tilt wheel,it was named after Forest Currituck the guy on F-troop, and my arms don't reach when i drive standing up aaand I keep crashin into stuff so I wishh I haad cup-holders
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