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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
First Boat - Conquest 26'
|Author||Topic: First Boat - Conquest 26'|
posted 07-08-2001 01:46 AM ET (US)
I have been looking for a good starter boat. We are a family of four with two little ones 8 and 5. My goal is to get my family especially my wife interested in boating. My basic necessities is that it be a dry boat, stable (I'm willing to give up speed for comfort), have ability to spend an overnight with basic kitchen and enclosed head. I live in Newport Beach, CA and I would probably keep it in a slip and used it 99.9% in Southern coastal trips. I was starting to narrow my target to a power Catamaran (Glacier Bay or C-Dory Tomcat) because of its steadiness but I came across what appears to be a great deal. A brand new 2001 Boston Whaler Conquest 26 with twin 200 Yamahas. It was priced at $118K but they have a close out and it's $98K. The salesman of course tried to talk me out of the Glacier Bay but brought up some valid points. Since my long term goal is to get my family (wife) interested in boating then I would probably move up to a larger Trawler type. His point was that the 26' Conquest was very stable (not necessarily better than the catamaran) but when the time came to move up I would have no problem selling the Whaler vs the Glacier Bay. I will admit I haven't seen too many power catamarans in the area. Actually, I never have seen one. He says they are not very popular in this area and he's probably right. What do you guys think? Can I go wrong with a 26' Conquest as my first boat?
I also posted this message on the Classic Whaler site before I found this section. I hope they don't get mad at me.
posted 07-08-2001 10:00 AM ET (US)
Why not take your wife and kids on a test ride in the Whaler and the Cat? See if they get antsy and want to come back after an hour or so. My wife and kids like to go for short rides on my 17 foot Outrage. The kids like to go tubing once in awhile. My wife would like a larger/smoother boat and a head.
I spend 20 to 1 times as much time on the boat by myself - fishing. If / when I get a larger/second boat, it will be based a bit more on what I want -- not being selfish -- just realistic. Among my married male friends who own boats, I notice their families don't enjoy boating as much as they do -- especially after the novelty wears off. A glutton for "punishment", I could stay on my boat all day.
A 26' Conquest, to me, is much more than a starter boat. I assume you've owned other boats. New to boating myself, I think it's good to learn on smaller boats, take some boating classes and get a feel for what kind of boat you want, and then move up. Whatever you decide, you and your family will definitely have some great times on the water. Be safe, always check the weather, and good luck.
posted 07-08-2001 12:19 PM ET (US)
From a family perspective, a new boat is like a new backyard swimming pool. The first year everyone wants to use it and by the second year the newness has worn off and interest is lost and you're stuck cleaning it every week.
Since your kids are young you've got about 5 years to get their participation but when they turn 13 normally you're on your own. Unless you know your wife extreemly well or know she's a closet mariner this family boating thing may not turn out as expected.
I agree with Dan, take both boats on a sea trial with the family aboard.
You don't say what your experience is with boats. If this is your very first boat a twin screw 26' anything could be a handfull especially with a rookie crew aboard. Not to mention the financial investment.
How about taking the Power Squadron or US Coast Guard Auxilary boating course first then rent a boat a few times to see if this is right for everyone.
If you buy this size boat definately keep it in a slip at a good marina that way you don't have to encounter the launching ramp follies. Don
posted 07-08-2001 08:33 PM ET (US)
I don't have a lot of experience with power boating. I do have a sailing certification from a Newport Sailing Club. So I am somewhat familiar with basic navigation and boating rules. I not trying to be pretentious by calling the Conquest 26' a "starter boat". I'm probably refering more to myself than the boat. I have been trying to find the ideal boat for quite a while. Now this "ideal" boat has been a balance of what I want and what I think my family will want. I have been somewhat realistic in that I am trying to find a safe compromise. I am aware that there will be many times that I will probably be alone and so a smaller boat is more practical. The minimum requirements for me is that it have an small cabin enough to sleep a family of four and a small kitchen where you can cook snacks etc. The enclosed head is more for my wife. Without it, there is not even a ghost of a chance she'll go on it. That is why I have been looking in the 24' to 26' range. It appears you have to get to this size before you can get a decent cabin. As far as used boats, the Conquest 26' is new this year. The Glacier Bay that I was considering is a 1994 model with a "pilot house" type cabin. This style which is attractive to me is only in the 1993-1995 series. The downside to a used boat is that it has a pair of twin 2 stroke Suzuki's. I wanted to get either twin Hondas or Yamahas which is why I was at the Boston Whaler dealer in the first place. The salesman was saying to replace the outboards on the Glacier would be spending a lot more money than it is wise. I understand the practical approach would be to buy used and learn as I go. But there is a attraction to being able to pick exactly what I want with the outboards and electronics. I have to admit more than half of the fun for me is the "gadgets". Well, I rambled on here but my bottom line is the concern whether the Conquest 26' will be as stable a ride I can get for that size boat. And if the miracle doesn't happen and I alone is the Conquest 26' easy enough of a boat to single-hand?
posted 07-08-2001 08:39 PM ET (US)
The 26 is a beautiful boat, and from what you have listed as your criteria, sound like it would be an excellent choice for you. If you are serious about the boat, you might want to consider a 28 Conquest, as they have been in production since '98, and there are currently several available for around the same price you mentioned, but fully equiped with recent electronics. Check out Yachtworld.com.
posted 07-08-2001 09:18 PM ET (US)
I'm surprised the 26 comes with Yamahas.
Not that it is a bad thing.How's about
cruise package and reversable cycle air-
condition.Does it have the hard top or
My vote is for the conquest.
posted 07-08-2001 09:20 PM ET (US)
Don't get me started. You're dealing with one disturbed puppy here! Yes, the Conquest 28' looks good and I can probably find a late model year close to the brand new price. But then the 34' Defiance really looks like a keeper. But then for those bucks now I can look around and there's a number of trawler types (Nordic Tug, Nordhavn etc.)I'm not a rational sane person.
I actually am thinking that this Conquest might be perfect in the sense that I would be getting it at a decent new price and if I decide to sell it in a year or two then my loss won't be that great. More importantly though, it will probably sell quick since there would be relatively few on the market.
I'm more concerned whether there's a better boat I could get for comfort since I'm still thinking of the "Home Run" where my wife will fall in love with boating. Yes, I know I'm a dreamer but it doesn't hurt to dream does it?
posted 07-08-2001 09:30 PM ET (US)
The package is pretty complete for starters. It has:
Dual Yamahas Z200 HPDI Motors
Dual Binnancle Control
Multi-functional gauges and stainless steel props
Hardtop w/electronic box
Rigging parts and labor.
The list price is $135521. they had a special they were running at $118309 for the last several months. Like I said what cause this abrupt change is the $98,000. What do you think? Can I go wrong?
posted 07-08-2001 10:17 PM ET (US)
Since you're asking opinions, based upon your needs, I'd take a serious look at the 27' Shamrock Mackinaw. These are single screw inboard powered boats. For 100K you could get the diesel engine option or if you went with gas you could get just about every option offered.
posted 07-08-2001 10:43 PM ET (US)
boattraderonline has about 8 26' Outrages listed but no 26' Conquests. The Outrages are all in the $65k-75k price range. There were about 10 28' Conquests priced from $89k-139k. Over 30 26' Glacier Bays are listed, priced anywhere from $40k-100k.
With a 9'7" beam the 26' Conquest should be stable. You also can't trailer it without a permit. I believe the Glacier Bay has an 8'6" beam.
Here is a nice page on the 23' Conquest http://home.austin.rr.com/smohome/new_conquest23.htm
Here is a review of a 26' Glacier Bay http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/glacier_bay_2640_renegade.htm
posted 07-09-2001 03:04 AM ET (US)
I just had a thought. I have been under the assumption that a fishing type boat would be more sea worthy than a standard family cruiser. Now I figure I should make sure. I am looking for a boat that one can spend an overnight comfortably. I am concerned on having a boat that will be able to handle rough seas not that I intend to be out there but if I get caught I want the comfort knowing the boat can handle it. I figure that the family type cruisers are built for speed, styling and whatever glitz that can attract the public. The fishing boat is built for ruggedness and would provide the basic needs in a form that would be able to withstand long-term use. The reason that Iím asking is that Iím not buying the Conquest because Iím a fisherman. I will probably take some friends out fishing but that is not why Iím buying the boat. Am I being too harsh on the family cruiser? Is there a family cruiser that is built like the Boston Whaler?
posted 07-09-2001 01:05 PM ET (US)
Alan, based on all you've written, I think the 26 Conquest would be a fantastic boat for you. Have the dealer give you and the gang a test ride. If you decide to purchase, have the dealer give you a lesson or two so you're comfortable with it. The Whalers float level if swamped, so in my humble opinion it's extra seaworthy.
posted 07-09-2001 04:27 PM ET (US)
If you can wait my dealer told me that there are some different cabin models that are coming out for 2002.
'course if you get 2001 this late in the season you might get a better deal.
posted 07-09-2001 04:39 PM ET (US)
If your looking at all your options in this size range, I think a good boat to check out is the Albin 28 TE. it has the exact layout of the 26, with the 'v' berth, galley, head, and quarter berth, but comes with a single Yanmar deisel. A really nice looking boat, with a somewhat 'downeast' look, well built, and it cruises at aboat 22K. These were made since 95 I beleive so you will find many used below $100,000.00.
Just something else to consider,
posted 07-12-2001 11:24 PM ET (US)
Well I did it! Am I excited! My wife and I went on a sea trial this morning and she agreed (after I sold my soul) to get the boat. I went back to Shockís and spent the afternoon figuring out the electronics. Hereís what we came up with:
Furuno 1731 4KW 36 mile radar system
Furuno 5821 600 watt color LCD sounder
Icom M127 VHF radio w/ Shakespere 225 XT
Northstar 952 XW WAAS GPS Chartplotter
Simrad AP ss Outboard 80 autopilot system
w/ Seastar adapter
Sony 650X AM/FM/CD stereo w/ Sony remote
Heart Freedom 2000 Inverter w/ (2) G31
Please comment on any or all, what do you guys think?
I also installing some ďsyncroĒ thing that will sync the two Yamahas if they are within 500 RPMs or so. I found the two throttles a little hard to sync when we were out there. Itís the first time that I ever went out with twin engines. It would seem there would be some kind of latch that you could flip over the two handles to make them one. That way you could move them back or forward together. I asked them if there were better controls I could put on and they mentioned electronic controls but the cost was prohibitive ($5k+). Has anyone got a better idea?
posted 07-13-2001 12:33 AM ET (US)
You'll get the hang of the dual controls after a few hours of use. At first it seems like a major effort to keep them synchronized, but after a while it will be second nature to you.
posted 07-13-2001 02:33 AM ET (US)
I believe, for saltwater, a 600 watt depth sounder is inadequate, and won't read much over 400ft. You should be looking at 3000 watts instead, maybe dual frequency of 50 and 200.
Are you sure you want all those screens in front of you. What about a combo sonar/GPS?
For synchonizing the engines, all you need is the standard synchronizer gauge, about $175, which can be connected to point to either the fast or slow engine. Most looked at gauge I have. Invaluable with twins. A handle latch doesn't work, as it's impossible to get the cables adjusted that accurately. When synched, my handles are NEVER exactly equal.
Sounds like a nice rig. Congratulations and enjoy!
posted 07-13-2001 10:26 AM ET (US)
Congrats on the new boat!
Man, I don't know too many people going out and spending $100+ grand on a boat in this economy. Thank heavens the stock markets recovered somewhat yesterday but we are a long way from looking good.
Glad to hear some people have money to spend!
posted 07-13-2001 10:29 AM ET (US)
I second Larry's opinion on the sonar. a duall frequency unit with 1-3 Kwatts of power would make more sense. Less is needed on a 50 KHz Xducer, 500 watts would be good. This would be especially true if you could get the 50 KHz Xducer in 20 degree and the 200 KHz Xducer in 8 degree. This would give you a good wide pattern for monitoring the bottom, yet still give you excellent detail for finding fish and structure.
You might consider:
If you get the one you specified you will probably be happy with it Furuno has a great reputation.
posted 07-13-2001 11:01 AM ET (US)
Guy in my yacht club bought a 72 Hat 2years ago and just ordered a 118'. $100k, puppypiss. He'll spend that on dingys.
posted 07-13-2001 01:27 PM ET (US)
Bigshot, you're living up to your handle. The rest of us think purchase of a $100,000 boat is fairly impressive.
posted 07-13-2001 02:12 PM ET (US)
I am NOT living up to it. I meant in perspective to some, 100k is puppypiss. Just responding to gf who sounds a little down about finances. Just wanted to say the economy is alive and well. I agree 10 stacks of high society is a chunk of change but in the boating world, especially surrounded by us elite BW owners:) it is not crazy. Living in FL, 100k boats are like cabs in NYC. Hell cadillacs are $50k.
posted 07-13-2001 03:20 PM ET (US)
I'm not down on finances (although I sure could use some more!). I live in the Boston area where we have the 3rd highest cost of living in the country and I work in the financial services industry where we are definitely impacted by the downturn in the markets.
My house is worth $450K but it's not like I could sell it and pocket a lot of money, everything up here is expensive!
It is amazing how much money is out there though. My boss' boss purchased a new 2001 34' Sea Ray this year, about $200K with electronics. Clearly she's not too worried about the economy.
I do think, however, that boat sales in the $40K-$100K range have definitely slowed down.
Just my two cents...
posted 07-13-2001 07:35 PM ET (US)
Geez, alan, you're spending 100 large on the boat, 10% more on electronics and you're penny pinching on an engine synchronizer. Check out Sturdy Marine www.sturdycorp.com for their unit. They supply to Detroit Diesel, Sea Ray, etc. In fact they also make the DDEC electronic display unit for all Detroit Diesels.
posted 07-13-2001 10:08 PM ET (US)
As I said above I am not into fishing. I know with that Iím Japanese but something went wrong in the makeup of my genes (I also donít like gardening, hey I donít know what happened). My main intent is to use the Sounder as a depth indicator and for the occasional time that I take friends out who are into fishing. Iím willing to spend the $1400 or so for this ability but not much more. I was hoping that I would have a decent system that would help to catch some fish but if it going to be useless then maybe Iíll pass on it.
As for the number of screens. The point that they brought up that seemed valid was if one goes down I still have the others. This seems to make sense. Since Iím a gadget freak I went through the features of each of the components and concluded it would be hard to find an all-inclusive unit that does everything just as well. It would seem hard to believe that an all-in-one unit for $1800 would be equal to individual components ($5600).
posted 07-13-2001 11:48 PM ET (US)
Alan - when you're buying a new boat, one of the great pleasures is rigging it up the way YOU want it. Be sure your Dealer does that for you, and you tell him EXACTLY what you want, WHERE you want it, and HOW it should be done. Specifiy, specify, specify. (in writing) I've seen some horribly incompetent rigging work, electronic and other, done on brand new boats, with the design and placement work being done by shophands.
Regarding an array of separate screens for sonar and Chartplotting, or a combo screen, here again everybody has their preferences, and none of us will agree. It's your own choice. The "failure" issue is always used as a selling point for more equipment, but I've never had one go out on me. A compass and chart should always be on hand anyway. I think the ease of reading while under power, and lack of clutter in front of you, is worth something, along with the built in integration of the two functions. All of these can be used in split screen mode, and can display any combination of anything you want to see at a given time. You only have to focus on one screen, rather than scan all over the place and still tend to the boat. Look seriously into the Lowrance X-16 color combo unit at Lowrance.com It's a tremendous high powered value for the $1900 total it costs. I think Garmin makes an equivalent unit. You have nothing to lose. If you don't like the dual functioning, use it as your permanent sonar, or chartplotter, and buy a separate unit for the other function.
Good luck, have fun, and send JimH some pictures. We don't have many of the Post Classics.
posted 07-14-2001 12:04 AM ET (US)
Actually the Accusync sounds very much like the device that I am getting. I think it's around $700 or so. I was thinking it would be nice to have something that I could switch on then use only one lever to control both engines. Now when they were describing this Accusync the guy was saying that I needed to get the engines within 500 rpm's but the manual for Accusync says within 15% which would be more like 900 rpm's. I'll try it and see if I get use to it.
posted 07-14-2001 07:55 PM ET (US)
Well I went for my first boat ride by myself on my Boston Whaler. After signing all the papers and getting the walk-through details I started the engines and shoved off. I had the kids with me so my plan was to motor it back to the Bay club where I had a new slip. Itís fairly close so I took the back way to the Bay Club where there is a wide-open area where I figured I could practice with the boat. I tried playing with the throttle, turning the boat from side to side with the engines. I felt that I practiced enough and started toward the club. As I was approaching the entrance to where my slip was I slowed down almost to a stop and crept up to the entrance. I slowing turned in and headed down. As soon as I entered, a concern grew within me because the boats seemed to be so close on either side. I put the boat in idle and figured I would stop and then plot my course of action. As soon as I was in idle the boat started to slowly veer off so I realized that being in idle wasnít a good idea. I push back the throttle of both engines but nothing happened, meanwhile I started to drift towards some boats. I remembered the sales guy saying that until the throttle is broken in you have to sometimes pull on it to engage in gear. So I did, and just in time since I was probably a couple of seconds away from bumping the bow of a boat. I pulled back sharply and then I backed off the throttle, I then tried to figure how to steer going backwards. The book I read said it was just like steering a car with a trailer. I was able to get it back into the main channel. I proceeded down the channel deciding that I would turn around and approach the entrance going into the wind. Here I am again slowing down and turning into the entrance, I start turning the boat so I will make a ďUĒ turn into my slip. I pick my spot and aim the boat. Half way into the turn I figure that my back end has too much momentum and if I make it into the slip the aft port side will bang into the dock. So I abort the attempt and started backing out. As Iím backing out into the main channel I see a Harbor Patrol boat approaching. I see him slowing down so I move it back and turn and professionally as I know how and proceed down the channel again waving at the officer. Whew! He took a long look at me but probably figured that there were other boats in the harbor that needed his attention. I decide that I will go down until the Harbor boat is a small dot and then turn around. This time I figure that my original thought of approach from the other direction was better so I go up and turn around again. I make a wider turn into the entrance and aim pass the slip and then I place the engines in idle. I was going at a fairly slow pace with enough momentum that I knew I would make it to the slip. I went around and up to the bow and grabbed the bowline. I placed my hand out and grabbed the standing post absorbing the force with my body. My sailing experience helped here since I was fairly experienced in moving the sailboats around the docks. You donít have to push that much to get something going so youíre better off pushing slowly and when the boat starts moving you give just enough to go where you want it to go. Well, I was able to slow the boat even move and make a subtle adjustment. I jumped onto the slip and started turning the boat and at the same time slowing it down. I made it! I then pulled it in and tied the boat down. Well, Iím going to have to practice a lot more before I take my wife out. The outboards are more difficult to control since I canít get them to go below 600 rpm. When in idle you have no steering at all unlike a sailboat where as long as you are moving you can control the boat with the rudder. The hard part is where am I going to practice? In the open water you donít have any feel on how much youíre drifting. I almost need an open slip area with a couple of friends who know boating to stand on each side and fend off the obstacles. Any of you experienced guys (if you had the patience to read this far) have any hints on good practice tips?
posted 07-14-2001 09:45 PM ET (US)
Measure the width of your dock. Find a nice open area without a lot of boat traffic. Place 4 water ski buoys in the water in a square pattern the same width as your dock. Keep the anchor lines on the buoys fairly vertical(not a lot of slack). Practice docking the boat between the buoys from all 4 different sides. This will force you to contend with the wind from 4 different directions. Patience and practice will pay off. So be patient and practice a lot with different wind speeds. If you have a friend that is well versed on handling twin outboards, see if they will help out. They should be able to help you fine tune your technique. Good luck with your new boat.
posted 07-14-2001 09:54 PM ET (US)
Alan, reading your boating experiences makes me feel like I'm there. Quite an adventure. My suggestion is to have someone from the Whaler dealership accompany you and go through the paces with you piloting. The place where I bought my Whaler offers free driving class with every purchase. A good piece of advice offered to me -- when docking don't always put the engine in forward or reverse, make use of neutral and keep in mind the point on your boat around which your boat pivots. I've never tried dual outboards, but you must have a ton of extra control being able to put one engine in reverse and the other in forward for sharp turns.
posted 07-15-2001 07:45 AM ET (US)
Make sure the dealer explains the electrical system and location of all the fuses, etc. My 28 Conquest has a ton of systems that I had to figure out for myself. If you have a generator, AC, stove, microwave, windlass, etc there are fuses and special procedures for switching from shore power to gennie. The owners manual is not very helpful. If you have any questions just ask me, I would love to help.
posted 07-19-2001 08:15 PM ET (US)
I just finished reading this topic. Glad you didn't get a shamrock mack as someone suggested. My father in-law has one. Its a nice boat but its NOT a whaler. Also, with a single screw its very difficult to dock in tight quarters (or anywhere else for that matter).
Good luck with you new boat.
posted 07-19-2001 10:31 PM ET (US)
I want to thank everyone for their input. It has helped me tremendously in determining whether the Conquest was the right boat for me and how to equip and handle her. I went out and bought several books and a video that described how to handle twin engines. I have been going out on the weekdays (less crowded) and been practicing and have become a little more comfortable. I even lined up a skipper who will spend a half-day with me next week to go over any of my weak points. I want to make sure before I take my wife and kids out that I have the handling of this boat locked down. Thanks again, this is a great forum.
posted 07-20-2001 06:24 PM ET (US)
I love you. I think it is rare for a guy willing to spend $100,000 on a boat to be as open as you are about the experience. I think you are special.
I have a brother-in-law who has essentially gone from nothing to a 34' Bayliner. What he has done is spent some time around his slip and said the the veterans around him, "I need mentoring". They have responded. I am thoroughly impressed with his learning curve. I have been out with him several times and feel very comfortable with his boatmanship.
Find a mentor around you and go for it.
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