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Author Topic:   About to purchase a Dauntless 16
Tallydon posted 07-28-2001 09:13 PM ET (US)   Profile for Tallydon   Send Email to Tallydon  
I need either encouragement or discouragement regarding my next week purchase of a Dauntless 16. The boat will come with a Yamaha 80 4-stroke. The price is right and I have no complaints about my dealer. He is giving a good trade-in for my boat, actually a very good offer. I presently own a 1999 Dauntless 15 with a 50 merc 4-stroke(purchased from the same dealer); I believe it was one of the last of them before the 16s came out. The boat is pristine. However, with a shallow vee it tends to be roughriding in any sort of chop and porpoising is always a factor with any oncoming wind. The Outrage 23 is a out of the question because I want the best of both worlds, shallow draft and the ability to handle a moderate chop. And the Outrage is too expensive and too big for my needs.

I generally fish on the flats located in the Big Bend area of Florida (St. Marks to St. George Island). Sometimes I'm 3-4 miles offshore in 20' of depth, and of course, weather can come up suddenly. I like my 15 but it is a little cramped for my gear. My wife, who fishes with me wants something a little bigger and more storage space. But, I sometimes go out alone and wonder if the 16 will be harder to trailer and launch alone. I have no problems with the 15. I'm scheduled to close the deal sometime next week. I'm also taking a test drive before I close the deal (if I close the deal). Anyone know how the ride compares between the 15 and the 16? Oh, by the way, my dealer received seven BW's without motors from the factory. I asked him about the factory forcing him to buy them with merc motors. He said no. He rigs them with either Yamaha or mercs depending on what the customer wants. As a long time reader of this message board, I would appreciate your comments and insight. I have learned a lot during the last 2 years.

dscew posted 07-28-2001 10:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for dscew    
The only thing I would change if I had my druthers would be to move to the 100 HP Yamaha if you can. Same block and weight as the 80, so why not take the performance too? The only difference is in the carbs. O/W, the 16 is a very nice boat with a good ride. My $.02
Tallydon posted 07-28-2001 11:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Thanks for your input. According to the deal, my dealer only has a Yamaha 80 4-stroke in stock at the moment and no 100s and that is the reason why he made me a good deal (I hope it didn't fall off the truck). Normally, he sells the 16 with the merc 90 4-stroke and he has backordered them, but there may be a delay of several weeks for them to arrive. According to the dealer, I won't be losing anything between the yam 80 and the merc 90 4-stroke because the yam is lighter. He says that the yam 80 is more than enough to power the 16. Is he right? Anyway, I'm not into speed. I like being out and enjoying the view. I think the world has gotten too fast anyway.
B Bear posted 07-29-2001 05:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Tallydon,
I have a Dauntless 16 and so does Blackdog.
I have launched and recovered by myself with out any problems, I'll let Blackdog speak for himself here.

Does your Dealer have a 16 Dauntless rigged? You should go for a ride before you buy even if it does not have the same engine, to get a feel for the hull. The boat has a nice smooth and dry ride, but as it get rougher, heavy chop and wind I just slow down and take it easy. This is something that you would need to try to see if it is acceptable, after all 16 ft is still small.

Blackdog has a Johnson 115 HP on his and I have a Honda 90 HP. There is about a 3-5 MPH difference in the top end between us. I could not tell you how an 80 HP would be. I would guess you would make around the low 30s.
Bear

Tallydon posted 07-29-2001 10:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
B. Bear, unfortunately my dealer has to find one his customers who owns a 16 with a 80-90 4-stroke to let me test drive it. It seems that Florida has a new law that states if a dealer puts a new boat in the water, it then becomes used and he has to sell it as such. Big pain for him as he lamented to me. Yes, I will take for a test drive sometime next week. B. Bear, thanks for your comments, they were helpful.
B Bear posted 07-30-2001 10:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
I wonder does that law also inlcude cars, trucks, motorcycles and airplanes?
I would guess that they would want every dealer to have demonstrators in every model offered. That is a lot of new/used inventory to keep around tying up alot of cash. Kinda makes it tough on the smaller dealers. Sounds like good intentions gone bad.
Bear
blackdog posted 07-31-2001 10:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
I am back. I was a little busyÖÖ
Tally Don. I really like my 16 Dauntless, I can load and retrieve buy myself like BBear.
If you are using it for fishing and donít carry a lot of gear or people the 80 HP 4 stroke should be ok. I have the 115 Ficht and she will do about 45mph on the GPS. I was surprised of the performance difference the first time I went out with 3 large adults and a14 year old boy. This is a heavy boat to begin with probably around 2200 lbs with gas and everything else on board so an 80 might be little small to do the job but that is a personal preference thing and I like to go fast! I wonder what the exact HP at the Prop will be? Could the engine be 85HP or even 75 at the Prop? Just go for a ride with someone else ( Bring some one for weight) and see how YOU like it. That the Key!

Good luck and donít rush it! It hard but find the right boat for you!

Blackdog

Tsuriki BW posted 07-31-2001 10:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
Tallydon,

I have a Dauntless 14 with a 75hp Merc 2 stroke. Performance is good. I would think with a bigger and heavier boat the 80 is a bit on the "light" side. If possible, you might seriously think about a bigger engine.

Tsuriki

Tallydon posted 07-31-2001 01:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Thanks for your comments. My dealer wants an additional $700 for the 100 Yamaha 4-stroke. With the cover at $541 from mills, that is going to hurt. But, I agree with your views, the 80 might be too small. Can you actually bargain with dealers and cut costs? What are your experiences?
Bigshot posted 07-31-2001 03:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Bargain! At least try to get them to "throw in" the 100hp at the price you have now. Can't hurt. Try another dealer if available.
Wild Turkey posted 07-31-2001 11:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Wild Turkey  Send Email to Wild Turkey     
Tallydon,
Sorry, but I don't believe your dealer. You mean to tell me that he won't let you test the boat you want to buy? How do you know it will meet your needs? Seems mighty convenent on his part...
My suggestion is the same as Bigshot's... try another dealer.
Chris
B Bear posted 08-01-2001 01:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
My mistake, Blackdog goes about 8 - 10 mph faster then me. Go for higher HP.
Are you sure there was a law passed like that? It just does not seem to ring true, call other dealers of the same and different boat makes and ask them. Never buy a boat without testing it, car, truck, motorcycle or an airplane for that matter.
Bigshot posted 08-01-2001 09:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
They must sell a lot of demos in FL then. Everyone I know goes for a test ride on the west coast. What dealer are you dealing with?
Tallydon posted 08-01-2001 09:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
My dealer is trying to find one that he sold and is offering him a free service so I test drive it. I believe it will be a mercury 90 4 stroke on the 16. Actually, I like my dealer and found him to be honest through the years. His service department is considered to be the best in the big bend area of Florida. I don't think he would lie to me considering that I work for state government and can easily find out by reviewing laws that were recently signed into law. Let me see if I can find find it and post it.
blackdog posted 08-02-2001 04:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Tallydon,
From what I have learned from the board is that engines are marked up 100% so he certainley has some room to work with you.
P.S- If you get any canvas from him, that is BW canvas Bimini, etc make sure its Mills. I have Great Lakes which came with the boat as a BW option. It seems to be good but the Mills Mooring cover I bought is much better quality.
If he will not budge on the engine price, Nibel a little. I got a dept finder, VHF installed for free, fenders , CG Pkg ....
You get the idea.
What kinda of trailer? Bunk / Roller- ask for Clear rollers, spare tire.....

Blackdog

Tallydon posted 08-02-2001 06:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
May not be buying after all. According to my dealer, he has concerns that the yam 80-100 4-stroke is too heavy for the Dauntless 16. That is why he is insisting that I drive one that is equipped with a 4-stroke. It seems any additional weight near the stern, i.e. someone standing there, will cause the scuppers to be under water and water will enter the deck. Also, the handling characteristics, according the dealer, are not good in maintaining a plane at low rpms because of the engine weight. I inqured about a 2-stroke, but I am spoiled with owning a 50 4-stroke. Anyone out there have a 80-90 4-stroke on a 16? Help!
Tallydon posted 08-02-2001 07:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
What I don't understand is the 115 merc 2 stroke weighs about 9 lbs less than the 80 yam 4-stroke. The 16 is rated up to a 115. According to my dealer, he said the weight listed for the yam 80 does not include additional weight like rigging and oil, etc., and can add another 40 lbs. Is that true?
Whaletosh posted 08-02-2001 11:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
The Dauntless 16 is rated for a motor tha doesn't exceed 455 lbs. The oil is going to weigh about 7 lbs per gallon, so if the sump takes 4 quarts or less the oil is negligable. The rest of the rigging isn't going to be concentrated on the stern of the boat so it isn't a factor.

The Yamaha F100/F800 weighs 356 lbs. Plenty light enough. The Mercury 90, which is pre-rigged on Dauntless 16s, weighs 386 lbs. Clearly weight isn't the issue. Personally, I think the dealer rigged an F80 only to discover that it isn't enough power. My opinion, and only my opinion, is that unless you can test drive loaded similar to what you would normally epect you should back away.


In General 2-strokes weigh les than comparable 4-strokes for 2 reasons. One 4-strokes have a valve train, 2-stokes don't. That adds considerable weight. Two, since there is a power stoke everytime the piston comes up you get more horsepower from smaller displacements; again less weight.

Sean

Whaletosh posted 08-02-2001 11:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
the scuppers on most Dauntless 14/16/18/22s and the Ventura cousins are always below the water, even with a light motor.

My Dauntless 14 has a 60 HP 4-stroke which weighs 236 lbs. The Mercury 2-stroke weighs 217 lbs. The scuppers are well under the waterline at rest. There is no way the 17 lb difference could result in the scuppers being above water with the 60 HP 2-stroke.

There are 2 forum members that have Dauntless/Ventura 16 boats with 90 HP 4-stroke motors. Both of the love the boat and perfromance.

Sean

blackdog posted 08-03-2001 06:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Tally,
I sent you some pic's of Bear's Dauntless next to mine.

Blackdog

Tallydon posted 08-03-2001 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Thanks for the photos. Your boats look real good. I'm curious about the size of the Evinrude and its weight. Also, do you need doefins on your motors to reduce porpoising (if that is a factor)? And do use scupper plugs to prevent water from entering the deck? The Honda 4-stroke must weigh even more than the Merc 90/4 and Yam 100/4. Has that caused problems with staying on plane, etc.?

Don

Tallydon posted 08-03-2001 08:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
In addition, never go out into the Gulf when there is a disturbance. I took my Dauntless 15 out there this morning trying to catch some seatrout and Spanish mackerel. No luck, but by noon, conditions changed drastically. It went from a 1-2' light chop to 4-6 seas in practically minutes. I was about 2-miles offshore fishing the flats when bam, I'm wondering if I'm going to get back. What normally takes me 15 minutes to get back to the dock took me almost 50 minutes at 10-12 knots. I tried going faster, but my prop came out of the water when I crested a wave. Anyway, I wasn't worried about sinking but it was interesting. I never experienced weather like that; a drastic change in a matter of minutes.

Don

Don

Dan posted 08-03-2001 09:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
I've got a 1999 17 Outrage with 115 2 stroke Merc. My rec is to get max power boat will take. Also get the biggest boat you can afford. My choice would be a classic late 80's Outrage 18 with 150 motor. But if you go 16 Dauntless, I really think 80hp is not enough. At this time of year you should be able to drive a hard bargain. Good luck.
B Bear posted 08-04-2001 01:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Tallydon I will try to address you questions about scuppers and planing. Since I have a Dauntless 16 with a Honda 90.

The only time any water has come in through the self bailing scuppers is when I have had my fish cooler, tackle box, and another person all aft of the seat. Most of the time there is no water there and when there has been some it has not been that much.

As for planing, I put a Doel Fin on. The difference is that I remain on plane 300 rpm less than without (3700 vs 4000), it has increased the amount of useable trim and increased the midrange planing speeds. Without it I would run with the trim almost always down. With it there is less bow rise when coming out of the hole, even though getting on plane is quite fast. With two people and a full tank I have reached 37 mph on my gps, normally I will WOT in the mid 30s (34 -35 mph)trimming down a little more for a smoother ride through a chop. Really the Doel fin is not a must. I go out in the Chesapeake Bay area where I encounter a tight chop, I have been out there with a 3 ft chop trolling before, not something I would like to do all the time in a 16 footer, but over all it was not bad enough to chase me in, but it does get old in a small boat.

As Whaletosh pointed out in the specs the max engine weight for the Dauntless 16 is 455 lb.s and my Honda 90 is well within that limitation.
As time moves on there are newer higher HP four strokes arriving on the scene since the time I had purchased mine. Suzuki now has a 115, when I bought my boat and engine the highest HP four stroke they made was a 70. I hae not checked the weights on these newer four strokes, but if they fall into the max engine weight limit, they should be taken into consideration, I think a 90 or higher is needed for this hull to get satisfactory performance and handling. I am quite satisfied with the Honda 90, for what I want it has been a excellent combination with the Dauntles 16. The Corsica River goes into my town and the ramp is less than 3 minutes away, yet at low tide I used to leave a mud wake with a Celebrity 210 FishHawk I/O with a 15" draft that I had once. So I have been able to get out even when the channel is only 2 ft deep at times. The modified Vee gives me a smooth dry ride in the chop, but as the chop increases I slow down. I am just not into jumping waves and catching air at this point in my life, might have been different in my 20's. And honestly the mid 30's mph is plenty fast for me, if it were lower I would not be happy with it. The end combination of hull and engine will be up to you fitting your needs, that is why it is important for you to experiance combinations before buying. I am not you and what may be great for me might be pea poor for you.

Did Blackdog send you the picure of me on plane? Nice shot, by the way Blackdog I have some for you when you did the BB Swim.
Bear
PS Speaking of pictures, Good looking kid!


B Bear posted 08-04-2001 02:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
By the way I took out an 11 year old, 2 13 year old boys and 2 adults (including me) on a not so nice day fishing with all their gear and a full tank and still was able to run at 34 mph at WOT.
Just an after thought.
Bear
blackdog posted 08-04-2001 01:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Thanks Bear. Max is a hansom boy!

Bear, I will scan the picture of you on plane and send it along. Light was bad that day and my scanner at home sucks so these pics are turning out so good. My digital camera ( Olympus 490, 2.1 meg pix) works GREAT as you could see from my son's pictures. I highly recommend it, light portable. Anyway....

Tallydon,
I think the weight is around 375lbs on the 115 Ficht.
I don't have doel fins, need to be around 3700 rpms I think to stay on plane. Proposing not a problem unless I trim up to much.
Scupper plugs - I don't use them or need them. Last trip out, too long ago, myself (210lbs), brother (220lbs),
His wife (!@$$*&^%lbs)No skinny mini and 14 year old son (100lbs), 2 coolers and full tank of gas and oil. NO water in the scuppers except when we came off plane for a short period and small amount at that- Drained quickly.

Whaletosh posted 08-04-2001 02:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
This is the exat experience I have with the scuppers on My Dauntless 14. Ocasionally tere is a little water, but it drains once on plane. I have never had problems with water coming in while launching or backing up.

Tsuriki BW does use scupper plug though. The choice would be yours, personal preference. if you do use them make sure you put them in where you can get them out quickly. Wet feet aren't a danger a swamped boat is, it broaches much easier, Whaler or not.

Sean

Tallydon posted 08-04-2001 11:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Thanks for information, and once again for the photos. Now, I wait to test drive one, hopefully next week sometime if my dealer can find one with a 4-stroke. I have already decided, based in large part on the comments in this forum, to go with the 100 yam 4 stroke. I have another question, B. Bear and Blackdog, after a trip on the water do you end up with water in the bilge and is there a drain plug to remove it afterwards?
Tallydon posted 08-04-2001 11:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Whaletosh, thanks for your insight. I agree, if I need or use scupper plugs, they better be easily removed to drain water. I don't want to test it as whaler does by filling it up.

Don

Tallydon posted 08-04-2001 11:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Whaletosh, thanks for your insight. I agree, if I need or use scupper plugs, they better be easily removed to drain water. I don't want to test it as whaler does by filling it up.

Don

B Bear posted 08-05-2001 03:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
There are two plugs, one is for the anchor locker which is self draining (I install it to keep the water out when I use the forward deck, anchor locker cover, as a casting platform. I also use the locker to store some things and I normally drift fish). Also the locker is large enough to get a higher rated danforth anchor than recommended in the manual, it is nice to have the extra holding power of an anchor that is rated for a 23 ft boat.The other is for the transom bilge drain.
I always have some water accumulate in the bilge (1 or 2 cups or less), even over 12 hours on the water it is not enough to activate the float switch on the bilge pump.
I am pretty sure that you will not need scupper plugs, I have neven seen a need for them even when going astern, backing down, or dropping the throttle to neutral and coming to a stop from planing speeds.
You should be very happy with the performance of a 100 HP Yamaha on this hull if you decide to purchase it. If you do buy this model we can give you some insght to electronic placement later, since the console does have a smallish dash.
Bear
blackdog posted 08-05-2001 09:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Same for me as B Bear stated. I usally leave the bow locker plug out and the stern plug drains some after you pull her out.
I be interested to see how they prop the 100 yam 4 stroke. I have 14x17 which seems to be perfect. Try to get a SS Prop as part of the deal! Nibble him....

Blackdog

Tallydon posted 08-05-2001 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
B. Bear, how does water get into the bilge in the first place. It looks like everything is sealed. Also, do you get water into the center console? I would like to use it for storage.

Don

B Bear posted 08-06-2001 01:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Well I just got back from fishing, left at 3:30 pm and returned at 11:45 pm, pulled the plug and had only maybe four or five table spoonfulls drained out. I guess my memory streached the amount that drains out. It is possible ther may have been times I had not put the plug in really tight, my guess is that there has been some leaking by the plug since it is not a screw type metal plug but a compression rubber plug.

I use my center console for storage also, the insides stays dry, there is a bead of sealent around the base and water could only get in if you do not seal the holes made for electronics wiring. I keep all my electronics, binoculars, chart, infalteable life vests, hand held spotlight, extra soft cooler (in which I have bug spray, 3-M spray clean and wax, hand sanitizer, extra air horn, can of WD 40, duct tape, propeller cotter pins, spare propeller nut, spare propeller washer, fuses for my electronics, pair of needle nose and adjustable wrench) registration papers, spare plugs and batteries in it. I use a gear box and I hve not had a problem with water. On the inside of the door I place an engine tool pouch and keep my wallet, truck keys and glasses case in it. I am considering buying some starboard and making a removable shelf to increase my storage space by making better use of the console hieght (after all it is this upper area whae with the fishing package they would have installed a tackle box).
The one thing the dealer did not do is place a bead of sealent around the seat for that storage area, I took care of that. I keep a thorwable floation cushion, first aid kit, signal flares, airal flares, extra life vest, a hand net, rags and a bucket for trash, spare prop, and for some reason I put a paddle in it too (like it would do any good, just had one laying around). I am considering putting a small self contained porta-potty in it also.
Under the aft seats I store my lines on one side and the other has my fenders, tow rope and harness.
In the anchor locker I also store a "Glory Hole" dry chum canister besides my anchor and rode.
That is one thing I can say about this boat, and that is, it has plenty of storage for it's size.
Bear

blackdog posted 08-06-2001 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Bear,
Do you sleep at night? All your posts are late in the night. I guess your kids tie up the phone lines.
:)
Blackdog
B Bear posted 08-06-2001 08:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Blackdog,
Just wait, it'll happen to you too!
My girls have found the power of the internet and now I seem to only get access when they are asleep.
Bear
B Bear posted 08-06-2001 08:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Oh Ya, there is the snore factor also, I let my wife get to sleep before me..... You'll soon find out.
Bear
Tallydon posted 08-06-2001 10:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
B. Bear, thanks for your detailed information. Now, if only could test drive one with a 4-stroke.
B Bear posted 08-09-2001 03:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Hope to hear your impressions of your test ride.
Bear
Tallydon posted 08-09-2001 04:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
You will. Looks like this weekend I will get to test drive one. Once again, thanks for your help.

Don

Tallydon posted 08-15-2001 09:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Well, I finally test drove a 16 today with a 90 merc 4-stroke. The ride was much softer compared to the Dauntless 15 in a moderate chop. Besides the ride, the differences were the steering was a little harder due to more torque from a 90 compared to a 50 4-stroke, the boat handled better in turns, and was just as stable as the 15 when stopped. Overall, I had a good impression of its performance and it achieved a max 33.8 knots at WOT with a doel-fin on the merc 90/4. I like the 16 and ordered one today with a Yamaha 100/4. I suppose the max speed will be higher with the 100. Should have it next week sometime. My dealer had several without motors and will have to rig one for me.
lhg posted 08-15-2001 09:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Please be advised the Merc 90 and Yamaha 100 are the same engine, both at about 95HP. The Yamaha will not be faster. You'd save some money by taking the Merc 90.
B Bear posted 08-15-2001 09:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Thanks Tallydon,
I was wondering if you were able to get that test ride. With the 100 HP Yamaha you should be around 40 mph WOT, have a quicker hole shot, and a wider mid-range.

I hope that some members will also note that there were unrigged hulls and you had your choice of engines.

Best wishes, congratulations, I hope the 16 Dauntless does everything you wanted it for.
Bear

lhg posted 08-15-2001 09:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Are you saying the Yamaha 100/4 is faster than the Mercury 90/4? Wouldn't it be the increased drag from the Doel-Fin slowing the boat down?
Tallydon posted 08-15-2001 09:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Thanks B. Bear. I would like to also note that I had no water on the deck coming from the scuppers. There was two us in the 16 today, me around 190 and my dealer 200+. I did note that when we stopped suddenly, water came over the stern in the engine well, but drained quickly out the drain holes. B. Bear, what type of drain plug is there for the bilge area? Is it a rubber brass one or something that has to be screwed in?
lhg posted 08-15-2001 09:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Also, Tallydon, what's the difference in the package price between the Yamaha rigged boat and the Mercury factory rig?
Tallydon posted 08-15-2001 09:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
The only problem with the merc 90/4 is its weight. It weighs 25 lbs more than the yam 100/4. I'm trying to reduce weight at the stern. Besides, with all the problems with mercury motors, the Optimax series, my dealer believes the yam is a better motor.

Don

Tallydon posted 08-15-2001 09:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
I don't know. I wanted the yamaha motor and originally it was going to be the F80. Now with the F100, the price increased $700. Still, the boat is under $23 k.
B Bear posted 08-15-2001 10:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Tallydon,
I have a rubber compression plug with a brass tee for the compression. I noted that in the General forum in the "Unsinkable is not as well known as we think" Andy Gere stated:

"Looking at my dad's 2000 Dauntless 16, the bilge drain is always below the waterline, tucked into a notch just above the keel. The plug looked like a nylon threaded type, not the typical rubber and brass style. It looked like there was quite a bit of volume beneath the seats and under the motor well, but the factory installed bilge pump emptied it quickly when I rinsed the area with a hose. The good news is that a wave over the stern would not directly fill this area, and the scuppers in the floor do a good job of self-bailing the cockpit. I was impressed with the bouyancy of the boat with a full load of people (6), fuel and gear."

I am curious how the Yamaha 100 and the Mercury 90 can be the same engine with a 25 lb. difference?
Bear

B Bear posted 08-15-2001 10:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
I should note that Andy's father's is a 2000 and mine is an early 2001 (bought in September of last year).

The Doel Fin lowered my WOT speed by around 1 mph and maybe a fraction more, from about 35 mph to 34 mph. I changed to a stainless steal prop and a little larger pitch and was able to get 37 mph with the doel fin.
Bear

jimh posted 08-16-2001 02:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Regarding the difference in weight of the Yamaha-Mercury 100/90 HP engines:

The variance in weight specifications can be attributed to inclusion or omission in the specified weight of various components like:

--the propeller
--oil in the lower unit
--oil in the engine sump
--attached cables for remote controls

Also, variations in the cowling design could affect the total weight.

There may also be variations in the lower unit design. The gear ratios, gear sizes, bearing sizes, bearing carriers, etc., could all be different even though the power heads are identical.

There could also be some gamesmanship being played with the numbers.

Historically, one maker may have a tradition of being very conservative with certain ratings, while another might tend to "round up" or "round down" to get numbers that look better for marketing purposes.

Given all these areas for variation, it is not too surprising that one maker claims ten more horsepower yet 25 less pounds than the other, although they admit the engine power heads are identical.

--jimh

Clark Roberts posted 08-16-2001 08:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
To add to Jim's info above, the mid sections of these engines are different and there may be exhaust tuning differences. I believe that the lower units on Yamahas and Hondas are all supplied by Mercury. At least my local dealer tells me so and he sells all three brands.. I know that the Honda, Yamaha and Merc props are all splined the same yet some keying differences exist on the prop shaft, ie, Merc uses a tab retainer and Yam uses a cotter pin and washer... Yack, yack, yack.. got to get a grip! Happy Whalin'.. Clark.. Spruce Creek Navy
blackdog posted 08-16-2001 08:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Tally,
That sounds like a fair price. What if anything is included? Bimini, Comfort pkg, fishing pkg / live well ,trailer, USCG pkg...

By the way there is a 98 Dauntless 18 with 150 mariner for about $26k up my way if any one is interested.

Blackdog

B Bear posted 08-16-2001 03:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Thank you both for the expliantion.

I noticed that the displacements are the same, the differences being in the ignition systems, and the gear ratios.
Bear

Tallydon posted 08-16-2001 07:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Yes, this price includes the trailer (alumminum), Bimmini top, fishing package that includes live well and two fishing chairs, a poly roller, wiring for my Lowrance fish finder, Doel-fin, and comfort package. I'm paying for additional items such as a Mills cover and SS bow rail (my wife insists on this and she's paying for it, ~$700). Not sure of the prop, but will likely be an alumminum one.
B Bear posted 08-16-2001 10:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Fantastic, you did well. I think you just got everything for it except the trolling motor. Good deal.
Bear
blackdog posted 08-17-2001 09:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Excellent deal!! I think the comfort Pkg has the railing and my wife also insisted on it. Your gonna love Her.
One more thing if I can offer advice from my one mistake. Carefully inspect the hull. Get down on the ground and lie there for a while and take a good look around. I missed a blemish or indentation on my hull. They fixed it but I wish I would have seen in before I left the dealership.

Good luck with her!

Blackdog

Tallydon posted 08-17-2001 11:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
B. Bear and Blackdog. Have you ever had problems with porpoising because of your 4-strokes on the 16, especially in a heavy chop?
B Bear posted 08-17-2001 11:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Tallydon I am not sure what you mean by a "heavy chop". The chop I encounter in the Chesapeake Bay area is usually a tight chop, small time interval between crests.

I have been able to adjust my speed to get a decent ride on these crests but when encountering a rouge wave I may go airborne. Sowing down eliminates the airborne factor and increases the fore and aft movement of the boat, I would not think this was porpoising. Unlike hulls with a bigger LOA the 16 is more sensitive to wavelength and period as would a 13 compared to the 16.

I know this is probably not the answer you are looking for, I try again when I understand the question a little better.
Bear

blackdog posted 08-18-2001 03:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
They only time my boat will purpose is when the engine is trimmed up too far. I can trim up very high before this happens.
Tallydon posted 08-18-2001 05:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Porpoising is when you are headed into the wind or jump an oncoming wake and bow begins to bounce up and down. Triming down usually stops it but your rpms also decrease because the angle your prop bites the water. I had this problem with the Dauntless 15 quite a bit.

Now, today's story. This morning I loaded the 15 with all my gear and my wife and I headed for the coast. The weather looked good for the morning so I was eagerly antipating some good fishing for redfish. At the ramp, I prepared the boat, took off the stern straps and pumped the bulb to prime the motor. As I pumped the bulb located under the seat, I noticed gasoline exiting the fuel line about 7 inches from where it connects to the motor. Upon examing the line, it appears something chewed on it. There were naw marks through the line and it was almost cut in half. For the past several months, I noticed what appears to be urine in the boat on the deck. I now speculate that squirrels have been having their way with my whaler. So we quickly unprepared the boat for launch and took it to my dealer hoping the fuel line could be replaced. It has be thread through the tunnel from the seats where my my 2 6 gal gas containers are located to the back of the boat. Unfortunately, they said it would be at least a week before they could fix it. Because I'm trading it in next Sat. for the 16, I left it there. They will own it in a few days anyway. Well, so much for getting out on the water today. Ever have problems with vermits vandalizing your boat?

B Bear posted 08-19-2001 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
No I have never had a problem with vermin. I have a Boarder Collie and she hangs out under the boat. I believe Jack Gardner (Whalernut) had some problems, this was posted in General, and may have used moth balls to deter these pests.
Bear
Tallydon posted 08-24-2001 09:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Well, I pick up my new 16 tomorrow. I will let you know how my first day goes. I want to thank all of you who commented about the 16, engine weights, and offered advice. Because of this forum, I was able to tap into a vast amount of knowledge and experience. It made my decision easier and I was able to weigh the pros and cons. Without this media and forum, I don't how I would have preceded. I guess I would have just ran with it like everyone use to do before the internet. Boston Whaler should monitor this site because it really taps into the buyer's mind. And, as time passes, more and more people will flock to the web before they buy something that requires research like the purchase of a boat. Once again, thanks. Good boating, Tallydon
huladick posted 08-25-2001 12:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for huladick  Send Email to huladick     
I guess that means we won't be hearing from you for a while.......busy with the new boat and all. Have fun.....

Dick

Tallydon posted 08-25-2001 10:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Got it. The yam f100/4 is an awsome motor. Very low noise and powerful. The 16 rides very well and the digital multi-tach gauge gives trim level, oil and temp warnings, and hours on the motor. Very easy to read. However, the 16 is a much larger boat than the Montauk and also the Dauntless 15. Still, it isn't much different than the 15 and I know I can easily launch and retrive it by myself. My new trailer has what I perceive as thin tires. They are the same size of what I had on my now old trailer (max 35 psi), but thinner tires with a higher max psi of 50. My dealer says they are less prone to tire overheating. Any thoughts about that out there?
B Bear posted 08-26-2001 07:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Tallydon,
I think if the load rating of the tires are good for your trailer and boat weight, that it should be fine. Thinner tires can mean more fuel efficiency, even though I cannot vouch for it. It might be better to post this in the performance forum. You should get a better response there.

By the way, hot stuff with that Yamaha 100. Glad you said it is awesome!
Have a great time!

Bear

blackdog posted 08-27-2001 09:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Congrads! Glad to hear you like the 100 YamF

Tires. As long as you have the proper load rating, "C" I think you should be ok. I think My tires are at 50 psi.

Blackdog

Tallydon posted 09-02-2001 08:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
Well, I had the 16 out twice this weekend despite the thunderstorms and rain. Today was better than yesterday in terms of the weather. I already have 3 hours on the motor. It is quiet especially while idling. The difference between the 15 and the 16 are pronounced. Much softer ride and it tracks better while turning. The yam 100/4 maxed out at 5900 rpms with two people on board and a speed of 34 kts according to gps (17 pitch aluminum prop). Although there was in a stiff oncoming wind and I'm still breaking in the motor so I didn't do a lot of test runs. The hole shot was fine and there is a slight bow rise as with most deeper vee boats. But I had no problem getting on plane quickly, about as quick as the 15. I was able to maintain it on plane around 3,700 rpms. No water through the scuppers or over the transom even when I powered down quickly. Might have to do with the yams lighter weight than the merc 90.

The boat fishes well and there is plenty of room for two or three people. All and all it is a comfortable boat; more than I expected it to be. However, I do miss my live well on the 15. The 16s live well is beneath the seat and that means I have to get up to retrieve a new shrimp. I must be getting old.

Now I understand why some wouldn't like the 16, the spartan or blood and guts approach. The quality of this boat in terms of fit and finish are excellent. In summary, the 16 is a good fit to what I wanted out of a whaler and the designers must have done their homework.

Tsuriki BW posted 09-02-2001 10:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     
Tallydon,

Congtatulations. I'm sure you are really going to enjoy your boat.

I have the "little brother" to yours, the 14 Dauntless. Gor me, it fits my needs and is a lot of fun. Whaler tosh has the same boat, but with a 60 4 stroke. Perfect! Ihave a 75 Merc 2 stroke)

I would have liked to have gotten the 16 but it wasn't in the budget or fit my exact needs. I am happy with the 14.

Have a great weekend and enjoy the 16 for many many years.

Tsuriki

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