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Author Topic:   2002 Ventura
sport15er posted 12-24-2001 02:57 PM ET (US)   Profile for sport15er   Send Email to sport15er  
If in the market for a new Whaler, there's a good write up in the latest issue of Trailer Boats; on the 2002 180 Ventura.
gf posted 12-24-2001 08:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for gf  Send Email to gf     

The Ventura 180 is a lot of money for a small boat. For $20K+ you can find a '96 Dauntless 20 which is also a dual console model.

Be certain you want the dual console model before you make the plunge, most people seem to regret that decision.

JohnAz posted 12-25-2001 12:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for JohnAz  Send Email to JohnAz     
Maybe i am Old fashioned at 62, but for an 18-ft boat with 125-HP Mercury and no trailer = $30,642, or with a 150-HP Mercury = $39,500.

My other boat is a Maxum 18-foot with Mercruiser V6, power steering, etc. I could buy two and have a spare for $39,500, with a trailer.

But I love my Classic 13.

sport15er posted 12-25-2001 10:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for sport15er  Send Email to sport15er     
I with both of ya's on those thoughts, I'm quite happy with my '87 Super Sport. Just thought I'd post the note for those that need New.
Merry Christmas all!
jimh posted 12-25-2001 10:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
As luck would have it, the review of the Whaler 180 Ventura in TRAILER BOAT MAGAZINE for JANUARY 2002 is placed on a page that adjoins an advertisement for a SeaRay 17.5-foot boat. This similarly appointed dual-console bow rider is featured with a 135-HP sterndrive engine. The price includes a trailer, delivery, and dealer preparation.

The SeaRay 176 Bow Rider sells for just under $15,000.

The Whaler Ventura 180 is listed "as tested" at $39,500. With a trailer, delivery, and dealer preparation charges it would not be surprising that this boat would sell at over $42,000.

Admittedly the 176 Bow Rider is a foot shorter and a foot narrower, but it does seem rather amazing that one boat can cost nearly three times that the other does.

Even more amazing, in the same issue GLASTRON features their 175 bow rider dual-console boat with trailer and 3.0L Volvo sterndrive for just under $11,000. You could almost buy four of these for the price of a Whaler Ventura 180!

--jimh

OutrageMan posted 12-25-2001 01:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for OutrageMan  Send Email to OutrageMan     
Although I must admit that I have not seen this years Ventura, I have to say that the ones I have looked at do not have any (and the ones they do have are not even close) to the creature comforts of the other boats mentioned.

Brian

Dick posted 12-25-2001 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
It would be hard to justify the extra $$$ but thump the hull of all three and decide which one you want to be in when the weather kicks up. A Whaler of course!
SuburbanBoy posted 12-26-2001 10:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
And a Boxster is more than twice as expensive as the Mitsubishi Eclipse. I am glad that Boston Whaler still makes a no compromise hull. I won't purchase a new Boxster, but, I don't for a minute think that my old 911SC is even in the same league as the more modern car. I am happy we have choices. Junk yards are full of old Glastrons and other cheap boats. I have no doubt that in 10 years, a 2002 Whaler will still be seaworthy.

sub

jimh posted 12-31-2001 01:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
One index of the relative construction of the Ventura versus the SeaRay: the SeaRay with an inboard engine weighs several hundred pounds less than the Whaler hull without engine!
PDM posted 01-02-2002 01:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for PDM    
This is a topic close to my heart. Three years ago I looked at the Ventura 18 and 21 and was shocked by the price. I bought a 96 Dauntless 20 for about half the price and it has proven a wise decision. The Dauntless 20 at 19' 8" is much smaller than the Ventura 21 and only slightly bigger than the Ventura 18. The dual console is great for family cruising but somewhat awkward for fishing but it works for my situation and use pattern.

I also have some experience with the second theme regarding whether the new Whaler is worth the premium. My previous boat was a 20' Bayliner and the difference between the Whaler and the Bayliner is incredible. The Bayliner would probably be a suitable boat for a day of tubing on the lake and then back on the trailer and in the garage but it was totally unacceptable for use in the waters off Cape Cod. The Whaler on the other hand inpires confidence every time I take it out in rough weather. This summer me and a buddy of mine were fishing off of Monomoy Is. and wandered into an area known as Pollock Rip where the currents off the Cape meet and the waves break in every direction. It got kind of hairy but the Whaler handled it with no problem, I don't think I would be saying the same for the Bayliner (if I was here to say anything at all). Bottom line is you get what you pay for.

Ventura16 posted 01-02-2002 07:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ventura16  Send Email to Ventura16     
There are a number of issues at play here. Obviously, Whaler's construction technique (Unibond) is more expensive than conventional fiberglass boatbuilding. They also use much more expensive hardware and fittings than the entry-level boats from most manufacturers. The third "strike" is that outboards are far more expensive than comparable horsepower I/O engines.

Remember that the Sea Ray 176 or the Bayliner Capri-type boats are loss-leaders...pre-packaged with very few options/choices available. The old "sell it below cost and make it up in volume" routine. By making it cheap to buy the first one, they are trying to force-grow the ranks of loyal Sea Ray or Bayliner users who will spend bigger bucks down the road. Check out any new 20' Sea Ray bowrider or deckboat...they'll top $30K easily...not exactly a bargain!

My point is this...Whaler's are premium boats...even at 13' or 16' or 18'. I agree that $40K is a ton of money for any 18' boat...but as several people have already pointed out, it's all about choices. When I bought my Ventura 16, I chose quality over quantity...I could have a bought a 22' "brand X" for my $$, but I chose to buy a boat that will pay me back many times over with better safety, longevity, reliability and ultimately, resale.

As far as the dual-console issue, I find that it is a configuration that works well for my needs...whether I'm cruising or fishing. There is dedicated, comfortable seating for 6 people. It fishes well with 3-4 people and there is a ton of storage.

Tom

Dick posted 01-02-2002 08:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
What is money?
You work your tail off to earn it so you and the family can eat and pay the bills. Since you worked your tail off to earn it you have the right to spend the excess in any manner you wish. If a 40K Whaler fits in the budget you don't have to appologize to anyone.
I worked for the Sea Ray/Whaler dealer when I bought my Montauk. I could have bought a real nice 19' Sea Ray for the same price but I had wanted a Montauk for 20 years and could now afford one. I have no regrets, even at the premium price a new Whaler commands. I also have no doubts that if I had went with a Dauntles or Ventura I would also be satisfied with the value and quality of Boston Whaler.
If we want the best we have to pay for it, may it be a boat a power tool or whatever.
Only wish I could afford a Jaguar to tow it with.
jimh posted 01-03-2002 01:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I think Tom (Ventura16) is on to something when he mentions the engines. Forget about the hulls for a minute and just think about the comparison between the engines you get in these deals.

For almost the same money I can buy one Opti-Max outboard or FOUR Volvo/Penta inboard engines of slightly less horsepower.

And the darn I/O is more complex in the drive department. There are gimbels and couplings and rotating gearboxes that are absent from the outboard.

I know the outboard has better power to weight ratios, but they come with a price!

I wonder if you can really buy these $11,000 boats or if they are just come-on's to get you into the dealership.

Ventura16 posted 01-03-2002 09:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Ventura16  Send Email to Ventura16     
The marine industry has shown a huge preference for I/O technology. Think about the advantages for them...

1. The auto manufacturers do the bulk of the R&D and manufacturing.

2. They (marine builders) get the advantage of huge economies of scale...over 16 million internal combustion vehicles built in 2001...and those same engines (with minor modifications) find their way into your favorite Sea Ray, Bayliner or whatever.

3. There is no real "packaging" or physical configuration issue...just build a box around it and cut a hole through the transom for the outdrive.

4. Parts and qualified mechanics are readily available.

Except for the dedicated components of the outdrives themselves, and some specialized control and cooling systems, automotive engines drop right into marine applications. I'm just guessing about the relative sales volumes, but I'll bet that I/O's outsell outboards by 5 to 1 or more.

My plain-jane 90hp. Merc. carbed 2 stroke cost over $7K new...and this is OLD technology, folks. That represents more than 50% of the total cost of some of these entry-level boats...and they all come with a minimum of 135 hp. No wonder most buyers (and builders) prefer the I/O route. Just my .02...

Tom

lhg posted 01-04-2002 02:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I just saw a published advertisement for new 2002 Merc 90 2 strokes, for $4950, in the blue graphics Saltwater version. The only reason I mention this is that I have been specificaly shopping around for a pair of these for my 18 Outrage.
Ventura16 posted 01-04-2002 11:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ventura16  Send Email to Ventura16     
I think you missed my point, Larry. It has nothing to do with the price I paid for a 90 hp. Merc., or whether you found a better price on them. The point is that even this 40+ year old technology is still very expensive compared to other alternatives. If you start to look at EFI, DFI or 4 stroke outboards, they are even more costly. I/O's are the power plant of choice for many boatbuilders because they are cheap, easy and powerful.

Tom

jimh posted 01-05-2002 09:37 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
There probably is some room to negotiate (downward) on the published prices of the $42,000 Ventura, while that $11,000 Glastron is more likely to see some increases due to "oh by the way..." add-ons. But to make comparisons it is probably best to stick to MSRP.

To get the proper perspective on outboard v. outdrive you have to go to salt water boating areas. Up here in the Great Lakes the I/O is huge. In southern Florida outboards are much more popular on ocean-going 18-27 foot boats.

My best I/O deal: met a fellow up on Lake Superior who was zipping around on an ancient 16-footer with a 4-cylinder Mercruiser I/O. We got to talking and he told me just bought the boat for $200. It was underwater (in 40-degree fresh water) when he closed the deal, thus the bargain price. He hauled it out, cleared the water from the engine, and got it going without any major rebuild. The boat included a trailer, too!

Ed Stone posted 01-06-2002 07:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
Here in our local paper a 1999/18ft ventura
115 Yam.4-stroke,with trailer. $18,499

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