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Author Topic:   Montauck Cockpit Bailing

SteviLad posted 08-19-2003 01:38 AM ET (US)
I recall reading somewhere in these forums, that someone was surprised that Whaler had not put self bailing cockpit openings in the cockpit sole of the new Montauk (which the new Nantucket includes).
How does the cockpit of the new Montauk drain? Is it not self bailing?
Also, are most new owners replacing the 2 portable tanks with a larger unit?
meb posted 08-19-2003 07:38 AM ET (US)
The 170 Montauk has an electric bilge pump. It is not self bailing because the deck rides below the water line. I do not know if previous Montauks were self bailing.
newbee posted 08-19-2003 05:53 PM ET (US)
my '98 montauk is not self bailing nor does it have a bilge pump. if i want to drain water i just get up some speed and pull the drain plug. the water drains out. kind of hard to do if you're out alone though.
Jimm posted 08-19-2003 10:05 PM ET (US)
meb, for your info; on the Montauk 170, I can "forget" to put the plug in and the water fills the well and the rear area about an inch, inch and a half a foot or so from the transom.
The fuel tank question - search this forum and you'll find enough to keep you reading for at least an hour...Jim
wspellenbe posted 08-20-2003 07:50 AM ET (US)
My 1998 18 Ventura has Seascuppers and a bildge pump. It is interesting that the drains with the 130 Hp Honda are underwater due to the weight of the engine but with waves at the lake raise up and the water is removed from the cockpit. No water comes into the cockpit when it is sitting still iI guess due to the rubber flappers. It also has a bilge pump but there is really not any opening for the water to go into the bilge other than 2 very small holes in the sides. I think I have had the pump turn on only 2 times and that is when I hose down the deck. The water in the cockpit drains out fast even at rest. It really is a great setup. I installed a water washdown pump teeing off the livewell hole in the hull. I wash down the boat and out the water goes.
Maximus posted 08-20-2003 05:50 PM ET (US)
I concur with Jimm. My 170 fills the bilge area only.
My old 17 footer would self bail, fill it with water, pull the plug, accelerate and the water would run out. Is this NOT the case with the new 170.
This is interesting as last weekend I took wave over the bow and took on a bit of water. The bilge pump quickly emptied it, but it would be nice to know that I could just pull the plug.
A lot of people run the old 17 footers without a drain plug.
RioRaft posted 09-03-2003 12:44 PM ET (US)
I know this was semi-stupid, if not completely dumb, but here is my cockpit bailing story. I've been around and owned various boats for more than thirty years. I'm still gaining confidence in what the Montauk will do. I am a first time Whaler owner (2003 Montauk 170 Four Stroke 90)mostly use it in the back bays, Strathmere to Cape May NJ. I pick my days in the ocean, Towsends inlet or the Cape May Lewis Ferry canal inlets are my usual ocean access. Hereford inlet is just too unpredictable for a boat this size. While in the back bay behind SIC I was approaching a charter fishing boat (going the opposite direction)that just left a no wake zone. He was putting up a pretty good wake about three feet and close together. Being a postion to walk to shore if all went wrong, I decided to check the buoyancy of the bow. I buried the bow into the second wave wake and took a three inch gulp when the first wake wave lifted the stern. I ended up with about one and a half to two inches of water in the boat. The bildge kicked on and the water was gone in a hurry. Actually I was facinated how quickly it was gone, no need to pull the drain plug. I certainly don't recommend that anyone intentionally flood their boat, however there is a certain piece of mind knowing what the buoyancy charastics of the craft are.
PS I know feel better for having experieced this but I won't be pulling this stunt again. Just get me an I'm with stupid tee shirt, with the finger pointing up.
ghefty posted 09-03-2003 05:39 PM ET (US)
Last weekend I got some mono caught in my bilge pump and it blew the circuit breaker. I did not find this out that the bilge was non-functional until after aquiring enought water to overflow the sump. Solution: I pulled the plug, and ignored the stream of water entering the boat and took the boat up on plane, watching as the water dranined from the boat, when I had less than a half an inch of water in the sump I stopped and replaced the plug. When I got home, I used a pair of tweezers to remove the offending mono, reset the circuit breaker, and vowed to be more careful when tying hooks.

Swellmonster posted 09-04-2003 07:27 AM ET (US)
Rio,
Did you get strange looks from the big boat?
Sounds like fun to me!
Arch Autenreith posted 09-04-2003 12:24 PM ET (US)
When I first got my Montauk 10 years ago I didn't have a bucket on board to wash the deck. I backed down and it came rushing over the transom well. Then just for fun I tried backing down as much as possible to replicate a severe swamp. I put about 8-10 inches in the floor. Funny thing was that it became very unstable. I don't know if it would have flipped but when I stood on the gunnel the boat tipped and the water came sloshing back to my side and felt as if it was going to flip over. A little unsettling.
Then I thought I'd just pin the throttle and it would all go out the back the same way it came in. It didn't. The ol' 80 didn't have the power to do that. It must've taken the bilge pump (small Rule) 10-20 minutes to drain it. At lease.
bluerunner posted 09-04-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
RioRaft,
A little off subject here but your story prompts me to respond.
I for one am glad that you did this test without hurting yourself and if you will indulge me, I have a few questions for my own clarification as follows. How exactly did you bury the bow? Did you use power to drive forward as the first wave lifted the stern? How does the boat handle rough water when at rest?
Let me explain why I am asking. I owned a 1985 Montauk that was a great boat in every way with the following exception. When drifting in choppy conditions or drifting and encountering a wake similar to the one you used for your test, there would be the occasional wave that came in over the bow. The bilge pump would quickly empty the water out and no harm was done. It was however, a little unsettling. I sold this boat and I was considering the purchase of used 17 Outrage II when the new 170 was announced.
When I saw the 170 at rest in the water for the first time, one of the things I noticed right away is that the bow appears to sit much higher in the water. This leads me believe that it might have less of a tendency to take on water in conditions as described above. In addition, the other modifications made to this boat also appear to enhance its seaworthiness.
I know there are some significant differences between a 17 Outrage II and the 170. However, if my assumptions about the 170 are correct, then it is closer to the Outrage II in terms of seaworthiness than are the classic Montauks .
All of your responses will be greatly appreciated.
Beaner posted 09-04-2003 01:54 PM ET (US)

Bluerunner,
I have a 2003 170 and have only taken water over the bow on one occassion. I was drifting in a small chop with HEAVY boat traffic. Some idiot in a 30+ footer came within 100 feet of my bow and through off what looked like a 4 - 5 foot wake. I quickly turned on the motor and pointed the bow into the wake. On the first wake wave, a small amount of water spilled over the bow on the port side corner. The amount of water that came over wasn't even enough to kick on the bildge. Bow of the Montauk seems to have tremendous buoyoncy. Hope this helps.
bluerunner posted 09-04-2003 02:01 PM ET (US)
Beaner,
It does. Thanks very much.
whalersman posted 09-04-2003 09:56 PM ET (US)
bluerunner,
A much underestimated boat and passed over by many is the 1996 to 1999 17' Outrage II... There is no comparison between the Montauk 170 and the Outrage II....
The Outrage II is a much larger boat even though they are stated as being 17'...
The Outrage II is also self baling, has much more storage space, and a HUGE fish locker...
Now, I am not putting down the 170 in any way, but in my mind, the best boat for my money would be, and was, the Outrage II.
The Outrage II performs very well with a 115hp but is rated for a 150hp for the people that need speed... The Montauk 170 is only rated for 90hp yet several people here have over exceded the limit and put on a 115hp...
I have owned a 1997 17' Outrage II with a Merc 115 and was very pleased with the boat... I only have a problem with my needs and wants, I prefer the Classics even though they have a rougher ride... Last year I owned 3 Whalers. A 1978 Montauk, a 1985 Outrage 18, and a 1997 Outrage 17 II.... The only reason I sold the Outrage II is because my wife and I prefer the Classic look.... Period.... Now I am left with 2 Classics and the Montauk is for sale only because I am using the Outrage 18 and hate to see the Montauk sitting there and not being used..
Lots of reason why people own particular models.... Teak versus no Teak is mainly how you use or store your boats and the amount of time you make available for taking care of the Teak etc... Big Deep "V" hull for offshore use or less "V" for lake or inshore use... Also, the vehicle used for towing sometimes determines the size of the boat.
At this time my boats are stored in my garage. I have a Chevy 1/2 ton with a 350 gas engine and I do not want to pull a larger boat as I live in the mountains..... And I mean Mountains...... Could I pull a larger boat? Sure, but it would be a little slower up the grades and harder on the towing vehicle so I choose my boats accordingly...
If I did not own a Classic or prefer the Classic "Teak" look, I would have kept, or would be looking for, a 17' Outrage II.... Best boat going in its' class as far as I am concerned... As long as you can tow it with your vehicle as it is a little heavier then the Montauk 170...
Joe Kriz
bluerunner posted 09-05-2003 09:21 AM ET (US)
whalersman,
Thank you very much for your response.
RioRaft posted 09-05-2003 04:06 PM ET (US)
Bluerunner, Actually I had pulled the power all the way back and was just slowly coasting forward, angled in at a 45 and picked a spot where the wake was approx 10 to 12 feet apart. The left front of the left bow took the gulp. I believe it is the design of the Montauk that allows this to happen. The bow being very squared off has a lot of overhang before the actual hull of the boat gets involved. Once the wake reaches bow portion of the hull it pushed it up in a hurry. As far as stability goes in rough water at rest, I'm very pleased with the 170. Lateral stability is great, fore and aft stability just depends on how rough it is. I have had some water come over the transom while fishing in a high traffic area. In all cases this was driven by cross wakes, never enough to worry about. It is a relatively light craft about 1450 lbs. add the 385 lbs for the four stroke and a Pate 27 gallon fuel tank and I have my bimini supported toward there stern. It probably sits a little stern heavy. I do love the boat and everything about it. It has been worry free, and the Whaler dealer, Island Marine was great to deal with.
bluerunner posted 09-05-2003 05:07 PM ET (US)
RioRaft,
Thanks very much for your reply.
Moby Dick posted 05-03-2009 07:34 AM ET (US)
test

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Author	Topic: Montauck Cockpit Bailing
SteviLad	posted 08-19-2003 01:38 AM ET (US) I recall reading somewhere in these forums, that someone was surprised that Whaler had not put self bailing cockpit openings in the cockpit sole of the new Montauk (which the new Nantucket includes). How does the cockpit of the new Montauk drain? Is it not self bailing? Also, are most new owners replacing the 2 portable tanks with a larger unit?
meb	posted 08-19-2003 07:38 AM ET (US) The 170 Montauk has an electric bilge pump. It is not self bailing because the deck rides below the water line. I do not know if previous Montauks were self bailing.
newbee	posted 08-19-2003 05:53 PM ET (US) my '98 montauk is not self bailing nor does it have a bilge pump. if i want to drain water i just get up some speed and pull the drain plug. the water drains out. kind of hard to do if you're out alone though.
Jimm	posted 08-19-2003 10:05 PM ET (US) meb, for your info; on the Montauk 170, I can "forget" to put the plug in and the water fills the well and the rear area about an inch, inch and a half a foot or so from the transom. The fuel tank question - search this forum and you'll find enough to keep you reading for at least an hour...Jim
wspellenbe	posted 08-20-2003 07:50 AM ET (US) My 1998 18 Ventura has Seascuppers and a bildge pump. It is interesting that the drains with the 130 Hp Honda are underwater due to the weight of the engine but with waves at the lake raise up and the water is removed from the cockpit. No water comes into the cockpit when it is sitting still iI guess due to the rubber flappers. It also has a bilge pump but there is really not any opening for the water to go into the bilge other than 2 very small holes in the sides. I think I have had the pump turn on only 2 times and that is when I hose down the deck. The water in the cockpit drains out fast even at rest. It really is a great setup. I installed a water washdown pump teeing off the livewell hole in the hull. I wash down the boat and out the water goes.
Maximus	posted 08-20-2003 05:50 PM ET (US) I concur with Jimm. My 170 fills the bilge area only. My old 17 footer would self bail, fill it with water, pull the plug, accelerate and the water would run out. Is this NOT the case with the new 170. This is interesting as last weekend I took wave over the bow and took on a bit of water. The bilge pump quickly emptied it, but it would be nice to know that I could just pull the plug. A lot of people run the old 17 footers without a drain plug.
RioRaft	posted 09-03-2003 12:44 PM ET (US) I know this was semi-stupid, if not completely dumb, but here is my cockpit bailing story. I've been around and owned various boats for more than thirty years. I'm still gaining confidence in what the Montauk will do. I am a first time Whaler owner (2003 Montauk 170 Four Stroke 90)mostly use it in the back bays, Strathmere to Cape May NJ. I pick my days in the ocean, Towsends inlet or the Cape May Lewis Ferry canal inlets are my usual ocean access. Hereford inlet is just too unpredictable for a boat this size. While in the back bay behind SIC I was approaching a charter fishing boat (going the opposite direction)that just left a no wake zone. He was putting up a pretty good wake about three feet and close together. Being a postion to walk to shore if all went wrong, I decided to check the buoyancy of the bow. I buried the bow into the second wave wake and took a three inch gulp when the first wake wave lifted the stern. I ended up with about one and a half to two inches of water in the boat. The bildge kicked on and the water was gone in a hurry. Actually I was facinated how quickly it was gone, no need to pull the drain plug. I certainly don't recommend that anyone intentionally flood their boat, however there is a certain piece of mind knowing what the buoyancy charastics of the craft are. PS I know feel better for having experieced this but I won't be pulling this stunt again. Just get me an I'm with stupid tee shirt, with the finger pointing up.
ghefty	posted 09-03-2003 05:39 PM ET (US) Last weekend I got some mono caught in my bilge pump and it blew the circuit breaker. I did not find this out that the bilge was non-functional until after aquiring enought water to overflow the sump. Solution: I pulled the plug, and ignored the stream of water entering the boat and took the boat up on plane, watching as the water dranined from the boat, when I had less than a half an inch of water in the sump I stopped and replaced the plug. When I got home, I used a pair of tweezers to remove the offending mono, reset the circuit breaker, and vowed to be more careful when tying hooks.
Swellmonster	posted 09-04-2003 07:27 AM ET (US) Rio, Did you get strange looks from the big boat? Sounds like fun to me!
Arch Autenreith	posted 09-04-2003 12:24 PM ET (US) When I first got my Montauk 10 years ago I didn't have a bucket on board to wash the deck. I backed down and it came rushing over the transom well. Then just for fun I tried backing down as much as possible to replicate a severe swamp. I put about 8-10 inches in the floor. Funny thing was that it became very unstable. I don't know if it would have flipped but when I stood on the gunnel the boat tipped and the water came sloshing back to my side and felt as if it was going to flip over. A little unsettling. Then I thought I'd just pin the throttle and it would all go out the back the same way it came in. It didn't. The ol' 80 didn't have the power to do that. It must've taken the bilge pump (small Rule) 10-20 minutes to drain it. At lease.
bluerunner	posted 09-04-2003 12:49 PM ET (US) RioRaft, A little off subject here but your story prompts me to respond. I for one am glad that you did this test without hurting yourself and if you will indulge me, I have a few questions for my own clarification as follows. How exactly did you bury the bow? Did you use power to drive forward as the first wave lifted the stern? How does the boat handle rough water when at rest? Let me explain why I am asking. I owned a 1985 Montauk that was a great boat in every way with the following exception. When drifting in choppy conditions or drifting and encountering a wake similar to the one you used for your test, there would be the occasional wave that came in over the bow. The bilge pump would quickly empty the water out and no harm was done. It was however, a little unsettling. I sold this boat and I was considering the purchase of used 17 Outrage II when the new 170 was announced. When I saw the 170 at rest in the water for the first time, one of the things I noticed right away is that the bow appears to sit much higher in the water. This leads me believe that it might have less of a tendency to take on water in conditions as described above. In addition, the other modifications made to this boat also appear to enhance its seaworthiness. I know there are some significant differences between a 17 Outrage II and the 170. However, if my assumptions about the 170 are correct, then it is closer to the Outrage II in terms of seaworthiness than are the classic Montauks . All of your responses will be greatly appreciated.
Beaner	posted 09-04-2003 01:54 PM ET (US) Bluerunner, I have a 2003 170 and have only taken water over the bow on one occassion. I was drifting in a small chop with HEAVY boat traffic. Some idiot in a 30+ footer came within 100 feet of my bow and through off what looked like a 4 - 5 foot wake. I quickly turned on the motor and pointed the bow into the wake. On the first wake wave, a small amount of water spilled over the bow on the port side corner. The amount of water that came over wasn't even enough to kick on the bildge. Bow of the Montauk seems to have tremendous buoyoncy. Hope this helps.
bluerunner	posted 09-04-2003 02:01 PM ET (US) Beaner, It does. Thanks very much.
whalersman	posted 09-04-2003 09:56 PM ET (US) bluerunner, A much underestimated boat and passed over by many is the 1996 to 1999 17' Outrage II... There is no comparison between the Montauk 170 and the Outrage II.... The Outrage II is a much larger boat even though they are stated as being 17'... The Outrage II is also self baling, has much more storage space, and a HUGE fish locker... Now, I am not putting down the 170 in any way, but in my mind, the best boat for my money would be, and was, the Outrage II. The Outrage II performs very well with a 115hp but is rated for a 150hp for the people that need speed... The Montauk 170 is only rated for 90hp yet several people here have over exceded the limit and put on a 115hp... I have owned a 1997 17' Outrage II with a Merc 115 and was very pleased with the boat... I only have a problem with my needs and wants, I prefer the Classics even though they have a rougher ride... Last year I owned 3 Whalers. A 1978 Montauk, a 1985 Outrage 18, and a 1997 Outrage 17 II.... The only reason I sold the Outrage II is because my wife and I prefer the Classic look.... Period.... Now I am left with 2 Classics and the Montauk is for sale only because I am using the Outrage 18 and hate to see the Montauk sitting there and not being used.. Lots of reason why people own particular models.... Teak versus no Teak is mainly how you use or store your boats and the amount of time you make available for taking care of the Teak etc... Big Deep "V" hull for offshore use or less "V" for lake or inshore use... Also, the vehicle used for towing sometimes determines the size of the boat. At this time my boats are stored in my garage. I have a Chevy 1/2 ton with a 350 gas engine and I do not want to pull a larger boat as I live in the mountains..... And I mean Mountains...... Could I pull a larger boat? Sure, but it would be a little slower up the grades and harder on the towing vehicle so I choose my boats accordingly... If I did not own a Classic or prefer the Classic "Teak" look, I would have kept, or would be looking for, a 17' Outrage II.... Best boat going in its' class as far as I am concerned... As long as you can tow it with your vehicle as it is a little heavier then the Montauk 170... Joe Kriz
bluerunner	posted 09-05-2003 09:21 AM ET (US) whalersman, Thank you very much for your response.
RioRaft	posted 09-05-2003 04:06 PM ET (US) Bluerunner, Actually I had pulled the power all the way back and was just slowly coasting forward, angled in at a 45 and picked a spot where the wake was approx 10 to 12 feet apart. The left front of the left bow took the gulp. I believe it is the design of the Montauk that allows this to happen. The bow being very squared off has a lot of overhang before the actual hull of the boat gets involved. Once the wake reaches bow portion of the hull it pushed it up in a hurry. As far as stability goes in rough water at rest, I'm very pleased with the 170. Lateral stability is great, fore and aft stability just depends on how rough it is. I have had some water come over the transom while fishing in a high traffic area. In all cases this was driven by cross wakes, never enough to worry about. It is a relatively light craft about 1450 lbs. add the 385 lbs for the four stroke and a Pate 27 gallon fuel tank and I have my bimini supported toward there stern. It probably sits a little stern heavy. I do love the boat and everything about it. It has been worry free, and the Whaler dealer, Island Marine was great to deal with.
bluerunner	posted 09-05-2003 05:07 PM ET (US) RioRaft, Thanks very much for your reply.
Moby Dick	posted 05-03-2009 07:34 AM ET (US) test