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Author Topic:   POOR QUALITY CONSTRUCTION
13DAUNTLESS posted 09-24-2003 06:58 PM ET (US)   Profile for 13DAUNTLESS   Send Email to 13DAUNTLESS  
Anyone out there been looking for a new boat and wonder if the extra money you pay for a Whaler is worth it? I wanted to see what other boat options there were in the price range of a 170 Montauk loaded with all options. I found you can get many other boats in the same price range with more features, larger 18-20 foot hull sizes and power ranging from 150-200HP. While this all sounds great I was less than happy with what I found. I found thin, hollow hulls and just plain poor fit and finish. Anyone else out there looked at boats in todays market?

Moe posted 09-24-2003 07:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
When we bought the 150, we didn't even look at anything else, even though we knew we could get more quanity and HP for the buck. We weren't shopping for a boat, we were shopping for a Whaler. 'nuf said.

--
Moe

whaler3 posted 09-24-2003 08:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for whaler3  Send Email to whaler3     
Remember one thing the Titanic was not a Whaler! Things would have been different if it was.
Barney posted 09-24-2003 09:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
D13, We looked at lots of boats over about 7 years. There were alot of 17 foot boats in the $15K to $16K range with 2 stroke engines. Polar, Sea Hunt, Trophy, Sea Pro, Sea Chaser, Twin Vee, Palm Beach etc. I suppose with a 4 stroke they would have been $17 to $18K. They all had cheaper hardware and cushions. Many had single thickness hulls and couldn't carry the same amount of people. I also looked a Triton, not cheap, but not a Whaler. I wanted to keep the next boat a long time, therefore, my 20 year old Whaler convinced me to buy a new Whaler. Jim
Swellmonster posted 09-25-2003 08:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for Swellmonster  Send Email to Swellmonster     
I just read a shoot out of the 17 footers.
Mako, Aquasport, Montauk, Bayliner, Polarcraft.
For the best bare boned fishing boat, the whaler won. But they still chose the 175 Aquasport for overall. It included alot more, but was also a few K more.
tombro posted 09-25-2003 08:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for tombro  Send Email to tombro     
I've owned others...and with the exception of a mid-eighties Mako, none were near as solid as the Whaler. This is a boat to keep! I'm continually amazed at the durability of the hull. Just pound one, like the catalog says. Then try that on some of the 'shade tree' brands.
Bigshot posted 09-25-2003 11:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Not too many quality manufacturers make 17's. Mako does but Grady, Regulator, Conender, Hydra-Sports, etc do not. I do not consider Aquasport, Pro-line or the rest quality boats, they are mediocre. Look at Edgewater and McKee but I doubt they will be much cheaper than the new Montauk. The McKee is a hell of a boat and built like a brick......
poker13 posted 09-25-2003 12:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for poker13    
From what I've seen over the years, Makos seem to be just as durable as Whalers. You see many 60's Makos out there still pounding the waves. Question: Are there any Mako models that are foam-filled like BWs? Someone told me once that they were, but I've never seen evidence of this, and Mako doesn't even mention this in advertising or their web site, so I imagine it's not true.
BillB posted 09-25-2003 12:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for BillB  Send Email to BillB     
Poker 13, Mako's with foam? Yes! check out the pictures of this '85 21 footer...They have wet foam problems too.

http://www.classicmako.com/projects/ed_ring/mako_project7.htm

The foam filled feature is also mentioned in some of the copy on the mako site.

Bill

Marlin posted 09-25-2003 12:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Marlin  Send Email to Marlin     
When I was a kid on Long Island some 25 years ago, seemed like Makos were THE boat to have. When I looked at a new Mako 171 last year, I wasn't especially impressed. Sure, it was a decent boat, but it had nowhere near the fit & finish that the Whalers have. How the mighty had fallen. Ditto for the 17' Aquasport. Never did get around to looking at a new Grady.

-Bob

poker13 posted 09-25-2003 01:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for poker13    
BillB,

Thanks for the link. I took a look at all your restoration pages and, man, you've put a hell of a lot of work on that boat! The instrument panels came out beautiful. I feel for you after seeing all you've had to do to fix that hull. Great job.

Getting back to the foam, I know there are several boat makers out there that use the sandwiched foam construction, yet don't brag about it like Whaler does. It's a great selling point, so you would think they would be pointing this out all the time. I wonder why they don't--perhaps they don't float level like BWs when swamped, who knows.

ryanwhaler posted 09-25-2003 05:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for ryanwhaler  Send Email to ryanwhaler     
Maybe whaler has copy rights on the whole idea.

By law all boats under 17feet(I think its 17 are required to have flotation.

poker13 posted 09-25-2003 05:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for poker13    
Ryan,

Yes, there is such a requirement, but I was talking about the sandwiched foam construction inside the entire boat, from bow to stern, like Whaler's. The foam flotation that fulfills the CG's requirements in other boats is just limited to a few foam blocks here and there.

I know there are others out there that do it the Whaler way (or similar), but don't call much attention to it, if any.

alkar posted 09-25-2003 05:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for alkar  Send Email to alkar     
It's under 20', and they're supposed to have LEVEL flotation, but the rule doesn't seem to be enforced. There seems to be some disagreement about what "level" means.
ryanwhaler posted 09-25-2003 10:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for ryanwhaler  Send Email to ryanwhaler     
What about the copy right thing?

Does whater have a pattent on the idea?

jimh posted 09-26-2003 12:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The smaller Boston Whaler 'Legend" series boats are not expensive nor are they priced at a premium compared to similar boats.

A recent magazine "shoot-out" of five 17-foot center console boats showed the 170 MONTAUK to be the least expensive, cheaper than a TROPHY, a MAKO, an AQUASPORT, and...can't remember other one.

See current issue of BOATING, I believe, for details.

Aside to young Ryan:

Certain creative written works (and certain art and music) are protected by copyright against duplication. This protection can now be extended for 99 years or more.

Certain implementations of manufacturing techniques are protected by patents, which provide 21 years of protection and can be renewed. It is no guarantee of financial reward. A patent holder must be willing to disclose his technique. Many firms choose to keep their processes secret and thus do not apply for patents. The formula for Coca-Cola is a good example, it has been a secret for decades and decades, but never patented.

The spread-spectrum technique, the fundamental basis for the GPS Navigation System, was invented by movie actress Hedy Lamarr in the 1940's, but the technology to use it was not available until recently. It is commonplace now, sixty years later, but her patent expired and she did not make a dime from her idea. See http://www.sss-mag.com/shistory.html --it is a fascinating story.

ShrimpBurrito posted 09-26-2003 01:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for ShrimpBurrito  Send Email to ShrimpBurrito     
jimh - FYI, in the U.S., patents expire on the 20th anniversary of the filing date. Up until 1995, they expired on the 17th anniversary of the issue date, which typically was a few years after filing.
jimh posted 09-26-2003 09:52 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Thanks for correction. Also, I don't believe "ideas" can be patented, just methods and techniques.

Back to boats...

Barney posted 09-26-2003 05:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
I forgot, I also looked at a 19 foot Proline. Not a people friendly boat. Even with the extra 2 feet outside it was much smaller inside, compared to the 170. You guys make me feel better about the 17' Aquasport. I never got to look at one. Jim

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