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Author Topic:   2004 Mercury 90 4s still a yamaha?
cape_rover posted 11-06-2003 08:18 AM ET (US)   Profile for cape_rover   Send Email to cape_rover  
Is the 2004 Mercury 90 hp 4 stroke still a yamaha engine? I realize previous years were but it is still true for the 2004 model? Does anyone have a link confiming this?
jimh posted 11-06-2003 08:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Unfortunately, it looks like the 90-HP 4-stroke engine is still the low-tech version built as a joint project with Yamaha.

You can tell Mercury's proprietary engine designs in the 4-stroke series because they are noted as being available with the optional SmartCraft gauge package. They also typically have the ECM 555 engine control module.

Mercury's totally new "Family Three" series of 4-stroke engines is expected to be available in 2004 and to include engines perhaps as low as 135-HP. This does seem to leave a gap between 135-HP and 60-HP in the 4-stroke engine line. This leaves the 75, 90. and 115 engines awaiting upgrade to Mercury's advanced technologies like fuel injection and ECM 555 electronic engine controls.

On the other hand, the joint Yamaha-Mercury engine is a good product, although a bit heavy for its horsepower. For just 50 more pounds you could move up to a 200-HP 2-stroke! At least in the 115-HP model you can get fuel injection (from Mercury's variant).

I think the only Yamaha content in this engine is the block and its components (pistons, crankshaft, etc.). The rest of the engine, the cowling, the lower unit, the electrical equipment, the propeller, etc., is Mercury. If that makes it a "yahama", well, I guess that is a matter of opinion.

Mercury and Yamaha have been making engines in partnership for years, going back to the Mariner brand name. I am sure if you get the Mercury 90-HP 4-stroke you will get a good engine, and of course you will get Mercury's dealer network, warranty, and support with it, so all is not lost.

jimh posted 11-06-2003 09:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Oops! My math was wrong. The 200-HP engine (406 lbs.) only weighs 20 pounds more than that 90-HP old-technology 4-stroke (386 lbs.) Those are both carburetor engines. It is rather amazing, isn't it?

Another way to tell the Mercury proprietary 4-stroke engines is their better horsepower to weight ratios. For example, the all-Mercury 60-HP 4-stroke only weighs 248 pounds. That is 4.13 lbs/HP.

In contrast, that joint venture engine (75-HP) weighs 386 pounds, or 5.24 lbs/HP.

Mercury has been filling the gap in its product line with a few of these joint venture ("me too") engines, but I am sure they will have a lighter and better performing engine available in a year or two.

cape_rover posted 11-06-2003 11:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for cape_rover  Send Email to cape_rover     
It looks like the 2004_optimax 90hp 4 stroke will have fuel injection and ECM 555 electronic engine controls.

This engine still weighs in at a whopping 375lbs so they only shaved 11 lbs off the weight.

Shouldn't the weight to hp ratio be 386/90 (rather than 75hp) = 4.28

Barney posted 11-06-2003 11:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Cape, The 90HP Optimax is a 2-Stroke with technology.

The Optimax is not currently available on the 170 Montauk.

I own a 170 Montauk with the 2004 MY 4-Stroke and so far I love the thing. Jim

cape_rover posted 11-06-2003 11:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for cape_rover  Send Email to cape_rover     
Thanks for the correction. I wonder if the weight is a misprint, that what made me think it was a 4-stroke...
lhg posted 11-06-2003 01:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
At 75-115 HP in clean technology, any brand, there is no lightweight engine. All brands are in the 370# and up range. The best perfromance to weight ratio will be the new Merc 115 Optimax. The 75's are always the worst. Mercury is saying the new Merc 115 will be fastest in it's class, but who really knows. Bombardier and Mercury could be on to something in this power range, since traditional 4-strokes in this size don't seem to be hot performers.

There are no links that can be posted here about the Mercury/Yamaha relationships. The companies just don't talk about this, nor does JD Powers.

cape_rover posted 11-06-2003 03:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for cape_rover  Send Email to cape_rover     
This is an email response I received from Mercury:

[It is true that the 90hp four-stroke has a Yamaha powerhead. The powerhead is shipped to Mercury and the engine is assembled with Mercury components.]

I'm not sure what a power head consists of. Normally it would just be the block, cam, pistons... Not the ignition, carbs, ect...

jimh posted 11-06-2003 05:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
In the case of the 115-HP engine, the Mercury variant has electronic fuel injection (EFI) while the Yamaha variant has four carburetors. Perhaps his indicates what is included in the "powerhead", that is, not the fuel/air induction system (the carburetors or the injectors).
AQUANUT posted 11-06-2003 11:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for AQUANUT  Send Email to AQUANUT     
FYI..jim I enjoy your info greatly...appreciate it. My mercury and yamaha reps both tell me that yamaha is manufacturing the blocks and internals for about another year. then mercury takes over...I suspect a few rought spots..but hope for the best...I favor the 115 4 stroke efi as a extremely dependable eng...I see few failures if any...just my an unoffical kinda
Swellmonster posted 11-07-2003 08:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for Swellmonster  Send Email to Swellmonster     
Marine Max told me that the 4 stroke Mercury is the Yamaha, but only for 3 years. They will not train their merc mechanics to work on them, just the average stuff or off to Yami for major issues.
lhg posted 11-07-2003 03:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Jim, correction, both the Yamaha and Merc 115's are EFI's.

The giveaway in the Mercury catalog is that these Yamaha powerhead engines are not Mercury Smartcraft enabled. Any Mercury designed and built engine, 30Hp and up, does have this feature, except for the smaller 2-strokes which will be discontinued in 2 years.

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