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Author Topic:   Laminate separation on hatch problem
t2me posted 01-21-2004 09:25 PM ET (US)   Profile for t2me   Send Email to t2me  
Has anyone experienced any delamination on any of their hatches? I have a conquest 23, bought 1999. was fixed once in 2000, real bad now.
BW23 posted 01-22-2004 09:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
You betcha!!!!

I purchased my 97 23 Con almost 3 seasons ago.
The anchor locker was the worst. I purchased a replacement hatch from Whaler, $150.00,
I installed the new one, only 6 months went by and the corner started to delam.

I spoke with a regional sales manager from Whaler at the Annapolis Boat Show this past fall about the problems. He mentioned that I take digital photos of the hatches and e-mail them to him.
Soon I plan to remove the anchor locker hatch and the large fish box hatch.
Gel coat cracks are somewhat to be expected...delamination no way !!

More as it develops.

Dave

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 01-22-2004 01:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
255 03 Conquest, hatches lasted 2-3 months all were relaced due to delam.
t2me posted 01-22-2004 10:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
I just looked inside the delaminated hatch. The core is plywood. the surface appears smooth. I think there would be nothing to stop the progression of the separation if water gets in there. I think that if they fiberglassed the whole plywood board and then finished with gelcoat there would not be a way for water to enter it. It looks like two pieces sandwiched ofer the plywood. Add water, and we all know that boats like water, and a little freezing, failure begins.

Has anyone got whaler to replace theirs?

Tim

jsull posted 01-28-2004 12:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for jsull  Send Email to jsull     
We have a Conquest 23 and the hatch is falling apart after two years. Have you contacted Whaler to see if this is under the hull warranty? I've been a Whaler owner for 20 years, and never had a problem like this. We've been sealing it with marine sealer but the edge is separating so much that it's protruding from the deck. Last year, in moderate seas off Hilton Head, SC my 4-year old tripped over it and knocked out a tooth. Is there anyone at Whaler available to help out on a situation like this which is obviously a design flaw?
dauntlass 18 posted 01-29-2004 08:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for dauntlass 18  Send Email to dauntlass 18     
I would like to see some images of this problem.On my 21ft.Conquest I have four hatch covers anchor locker, in floor fish box on stbd.side, and two small covers on molded pedestal mounts for helsman and companion seats.My covers on the underside appear to be gelcoated with a half inch wide sorta of rough sealer finish around the outside permiter of cover.I thought they were pretty well made.This thread gives me concern
bsmotril posted 01-30-2004 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for bsmotril  Send Email to bsmotril     
No problems at all with a 97 Conquest 23 here. But the boat is stored inside, and it does not freeze much, if at all, on the mid TX coast. My boat was a a very early '97, ordered in the fall of '96.
BillS
kglinz posted 01-30-2004 02:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for kglinz  Send Email to kglinz     
I've got 7 laminated hatchs on my 28 Conquest and have had no problems. The Boston Whaler Rep at the Seattle Boat show did tell me that Whaler changed the transom door design on the 305 because the older design was de-laminating. Now it looks like a Bayliner.
Treypescatorie posted 01-30-2004 10:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Treypescatorie  Send Email to Treypescatorie     
I have a 2000 (brought new in 2001) 21 foot conquest. I also had a problem with my anchor locker cover. I repaired it my self with some gell coat. When I winterized it in the fall I noticed it was delaminating again. If you are worried about your 21 conquest do a search on 21 conquest's. Did any one get whaler to fix this problem???
Treypescatorie posted 01-30-2004 10:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Treypescatorie  Send Email to Treypescatorie     
I have a 2000 (brought new in 2001) 21 foot conquest. I also had a problem with my anchor locker cover. I repaired it my self with some gell coat. When I winterized it in the fall I noticed it was delaminating again. If you are worried about your 21 conquest do a search on 21 conquest's. Did any one get whaler to fix this problem???
dauntlass 18 posted 01-31-2004 04:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for dauntlass 18  Send Email to dauntlass 18     
Treypescatorie could you describe the delaminating condition you are haveing with the hatch cover.Is it on the top side of the cover which I doubt or the lower side of the cover?If on the lower side of cover is it in center area of hatch cover or along outer permiter of cover in what I call a sealer seam.Thanks for any input on this problem.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 01-31-2004 10:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Outer perimeter sealer seams, this problem has been ongoing for years and appears to be inherent to this moronic prone to crack design. All Whaler has to do is COPY another vendors hatch covers that don't crack apart but NOOOOOOOOOOO they prefer to engineer their own defective crapola. All of mine were replaced with the NEW and IMPROVED version which was IDENTICAL to the old.

I guess they don't just get it or are very liberal with warranty dollars.

WHALER ENGINEERING ARE YOU READING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!duh.

Treypescatorie posted 02-01-2004 01:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for Treypescatorie  Send Email to Treypescatorie     
The problem is on the bottom of the anchor hatch cover along the outer permiter or as you would call the sealer seam. The delamination was not too far along when I made the repair,but I am sure that it would have gotten much worse after a couple of seasons.I have not looked at the fish locker cover because the boat is winterized.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 02-01-2004 10:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
How did you make the repair??
BW23 posted 02-01-2004 06:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
Guys,
Drop me an e-mail and I'll e-mail you some photos of my hatch.

Dave

dtaski@yahoo.com

Treypescatorie posted 02-01-2004 07:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Treypescatorie  Send Email to Treypescatorie     
I made the repair by filling in the gap where it was seperating. I used evercoat 5673 GeL-Kote.I filled it in, let it dry and sanded it.
t2me posted 02-01-2004 11:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
I would have done it diferently.
I would recommend that 3M adhesive or a silacone sealer where the edge crack develops since it is flexable. If even the slightest crack develops on the edge, water will find its way in and further destroy the fiberglass to the plywood bond of the inner core material. I have pictures that i have sent to whaler if anyone would like to see what happens.

tim 2me

BW23 posted 02-02-2004 09:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
t2me,

Please e-mail me your photos.

thanks,

Dave
dtaski@yahoo.com

dauntlass 18 posted 02-02-2004 08:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for dauntlass 18  Send Email to dauntlass 18     
t2me was nice enough to send me some images of the hatch delamination problem he is haveing.I plan on keeping a close eye on mine after what I saw.Question would Starboard or Whaler board help to correct the problem in place of plywood.The images I saw are more like what I would expect on a low price boat five or six years old not a Whaler.
Bill D posted 02-03-2004 01:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bill D  Send Email to Bill D     
'98 Conquest 21', no problem on any. "Knock on wood - - if I could find some"
HawaiianWhaler posted 02-03-2004 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for HawaiianWhaler  Send Email to HawaiianWhaler     
I just gave my hatches a close look after reading this thread. I've been running my 21CQ hard for coming up on 5 years and the fish box hatch especially has taken a lot of abuse. The fish I put in there don't seem to enjoy the boat ride as much as I do and pound on the hatch trying to get out; maybe it's too dark in there for them? ;) Anyway, my hatches are all in top shape. Is there some sense out there that the problem is due to whatever water may be getting in causing delamination because of the freeze/thaw cycle, i.e. cold weather Whalers should be more concerned than those in more balmy climes or those kept 'warm' in winter? Keep sharing all your great info.
kglinz posted 02-03-2004 09:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for kglinz  Send Email to kglinz     
I'm going to check mine closer and if I see any cracking is there. I'll "V" out the crack with a Dremel tool and fill the "V" with 5200. The hatchs on our boats are one thing I've always been proud of. I've raised alot of engine hatchs and seen a thin fiberglassed plywood panel, framed with pine 2x4s.
jsull posted 02-07-2004 08:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for jsull  Send Email to jsull     
I took my concerns regarding the delapitated--oops, I mean delaminating-- hatch to my Whaler dealer and, because I bought the boat 13 months ago, I missed the warranty by a month. Rather expensive to replace for something that doesn't appear to be able to hold up for much more than a year. You would think Whaler would be more concerned about the liability of having a hatch protrude from the deck, creating a safety hazard, and to foot the bill for hatch replacement. Have any of you folks had any luck getting this replaced? If so, who did you contact at Whaler?
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 02-08-2004 10:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Customer Service is always a helpful and friendly lot, they realize that HAPPY Whalers buy MORE Whalers. Certainly the hatch should be replaced.
diveorfish posted 02-08-2004 03:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for diveorfish  Send Email to diveorfish     
So far my hatches have been fine. Iím sorry to hear that so many have had problems. The hatches are very thick and heavy but are at least two pieces (I think). I donít know what causes them to delaminate but it might be because of the fact that there are no rubber linings to cushion them against banging against the hatchways.

I think Whalerís intent was to make them easy to clean. I know I get tons of fish goo all over the boat and canít imagine how difficult it would be to keep rubber linings and their accompanying nooks and crannies clean. The down side is that the hatches bang in rough seas, which is also really annoyingly noisy as well. I came up with a cheap solution though. I bought some cheap tubular weather stripping with adhesive on one side. I cut a few 2-4 inch strips and laid them down on certain parts of the hatchways. As a result the hatches are cushioned and silent regardless of the gyrations the boat is undergoing in rough weather. Furthermore, the fish boxes and storage boxes remain easy to clean because there are no nooks and crannies for goo to get stuck in.

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 02-08-2004 06:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Diveorfish:

Two of my replaced hatches had the rubber seal all around the hatch perimeter and they failed as well.

BW23 posted 02-08-2004 07:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
dive and/or fish,

Whaler buyers are willing to pay a premium for a perceived premium product.
Read my 2nd post...my $150.00 replacement hatch started to de-lam in on 6 months.

If this was a budget XYZ boat....no complaints. I'm submiting a letter and photos to Whaler this week.

I'll keep you informed.

Which is cheaper....keeping a loyal customer reasonably happy???
or trying to recruit a new buyer?

Regards,
Dave

whaler3 posted 02-09-2004 11:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for whaler3  Send Email to whaler3     
1995 21' outrage/ front hatch has started to delamate on the back (facing the consol)
dauntlass 18 posted 02-09-2004 08:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for dauntlass 18  Send Email to dauntlass 18     
BW23 thanks for the images you sent me.I spoke to C. Bennett at Whaler today he explaned to me how the hatches are made. What I called a sealer seam they call a weld it is resin not sealer.If I understood the process correctly the hatch is molded together like a boat hull.Before I spoke to Whaler I thought the hatch was thin fiberglass outer skin with plywood reinf. just bonded to it and sealed.If I see any cracks in my hatches at the "weld" I plan to seal them with 3M 5200.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 02-09-2004 09:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Mr. BW23:

Did he say why they keep proliferating this self-destructive 'design'?????

t2me posted 02-09-2004 11:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
The Hatch has a piece of plywood inside. My guess is they make the top first over the plywood core and then a second piece is put on bottom. Separation begins at where the second piece meets the top piece on the underside of the hatch. I know this because the separation is just about an inch and you can visually see inside. I've emailed whaler 2 times in the last two weeks and they have not responded to my question on re-design. I want to know if I buy a new one that it will last more than a few years. Anyway, re-design or not I would recommend that you all keep an eye on them, apply 3M 5200 to the crack at least twice a year to keep water out. Also, I intend to apply a line of screws about 1 inch from the bottom edge to keep it fastened "reguardless" to the plywood.

My failure could be a result of freeze thaw cycle or quality control. The guys down south dont seem to have the problem but a few years will tell, freezing speeds up the process.

BW23 posted 02-10-2004 08:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
Mr Traffic,
I did not speak with Whaler but I did e-mail them on Monday. dauntless18 spoke with them.

t2me,
My replacement hatch started to de-lam in less than 6 months of summer in Delaware. Boat is currently winterized in PA.

If not all hatches are failing, I would think that it is a quality control problem.

FWIW,
If you look at the hatches on other boats, most are unfinished. Makes you kind of wonder about the mfg. process.

BW23 posted 02-10-2004 08:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
Mr Traffic,
I did not speak with Whaler but I did e-mail them on Monday. dauntless18 spoke with them.

t2me,
My replacement hatch started to de-lam in less than 6 months of summer in Delaware. Boat is currently winterized in PA.

If not all hatches are failing, I would think that it is a quality control problem.

FWIW,
If you look at the hatches on other boats, most are unfinished. Makes you kind of wonder about the mfg. process.

BW23 posted 02-10-2004 10:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
Guys,

I just received an e-mail from BW

They are going to replace my anchor locker hatch at no charge.

Regards,
Dave

jimh posted 02-10-2004 03:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Administrative post]
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 02-10-2004 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Mr. BW23:

Great that B.W. came to bat on the hatch issue for you, I'd like to think thats one of the significant reasons we buy the product. However, why not design it correct or redesign it so as to NOT burden us the customers with this inherent design flaw,failure or whatever shortcoming you wish to associate it with. I was tied up at the dealer for TWO DAYS sitting idly by as ALL hatches were replaced on my than 6 month old boat. HEY WHALER!!!! WHAT ABOUT IT????? HOW ABOUT FIXING THE PROBLEM!!!!!!

Any response would be welcome.

BW23 posted 02-10-2004 10:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
I would think with the amount of defects that a quality assurance team would perform a failure analysis on the problem.
I know applying gelcoat is a science and I'm sure it is difficult to hire and retain good craftsman.

I'm very happy they stood behind their product which is one of the reason I chose a Whaler in a very competitive field.

tully_mars posted 02-13-2004 05:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for tully_mars  Send Email to tully_mars     
I spoke with Boston Whaler today about some issues I had on my 275 CQ, and asked them about these hatches with concern for the hatches on my boat. They responded that some early molds for hatches were too shallow, and when the glass was grinded down during finishing it made a thin area on the edge which is where the delamination would start. She informed me they have since created new molds to build the hatches in, and have been going back and replacing a lot of folks' hatches which have had problems.

Just FYI,

Capt. TM

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 02-13-2004 07:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Is my 2003 Conquest considered one of the early molds?

If not, it's still not corrected.

"They responded that some early molds for hatches were too shallow,..."

t2me posted 02-15-2004 12:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
Capt. TM & Dave,
Who did you guys correspond with at BW?
I have not been able to get a response on my hatch problem via email.

thanks
tim

BW23 posted 02-16-2004 12:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for BW23  Send Email to BW23     
Tim,

Call me at my office.
800-561-2400 ext 5873

Dave

t2me posted 02-29-2004 07:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
I just got back from the Boston Boat Show.
The hatchs on the new whalers appear to have been modified.
It does not look as if they used plywood as a core this time. They look real solid now.

Still no response from Denis Tilden, customer service manager at whaler via email. I wonder if he is the Sea Ray Rep. Now?

t2me

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 02-29-2004 09:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Dennis is now in sales, just call Whaler customer service.
Treypescatorie posted 03-02-2004 06:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Treypescatorie  Send Email to Treypescatorie     
I emailed whaler pictures of my anchor hatch 2 weeks ago and still no reply???? Has anyone else gotten them to replace there hatch?
Steve M posted 03-09-2004 07:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Steve M  Send Email to Steve M     
While at dealership for other warranty work I asked if the cracks I noticed in the weld seams of my front two hatches was the start of delamination. They said yes. I have a 2003 220 Dauntless. They said they would get with Whaler to get it taken care of. They also said many of their new boats in inventory needed hatches. Mentioned they ordered 8 hatches of various kinds for all different models.
LHG posted 03-09-2004 08:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
I wonder what they changed from the good old Classic days of CML ownership. The hatch covers on both my '86 and '89 are still perfect today, and first class workmanship besides. At least at one time they knew how to do them right.
TRAFFICLAWYER posted 03-10-2004 08:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
My 1998 Ventura also had the hatches cracking underneath at the seam.
jsull posted 03-16-2004 12:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for jsull  Send Email to jsull     
It doesn't seem like a one-year warranty on hull-related equipment demonstrates a company's commitment to their clientele's satisfaction in their product. Furthermore, the aggravation I have seen on this site with respect to contacting Whaler on such miniscule issues related to expensive boats is not what I would expect from a company that is proud of their product. This leads me to wonder if the fact that Whaler, I mean the Brunswick Corporation, in their goal to purchase Cabo Yachts, might be short of funds to address these minor concerns of devoted Whaler customers.

How do the other boat manufacturers address hatch problems?

t2me posted 03-16-2004 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
I found whaler very responsive in the past on other issues and been completely satisfied. I don't know why the hatch issue can't be addressed. Possibly, Ive tried to contact whaler directly and they wish to respond through the dealers. The dealer could only offer me a replacement hatch at my cost.

Grady White reps. at the boat show recently told me that they send directly to the customer regardless of the one year warrentee because they want repeat customers. I don;t know why this is such a bother at whaler.

Steve M posted 03-16-2004 08:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Steve M  Send Email to Steve M     
For the last couple of months things were happening at Brunswick which could effect valuation. So I was looking at their hiring plans, and saw something interesting that is perhaps related to this topic. I have wanted to try out this link stuff for some time, so bear with me if I mess it up:

http://sh.webhire.com/servlet/av/jd?ai=250&ji=1353224&sn=I

BTW the Director of Manufacturing and Plant Operations is also posted....

Steve M posted 03-16-2004 09:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Steve M  Send Email to Steve M     
Whoo Hoo! it worked.

BTW I decided against buying any additional Brunswick stock, but not because of my Whaler new boat problems. It was a good time to sell since it had doubled in value over the last year.

t2me posted 03-17-2004 09:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
It is interesting that they are considering outside labor on a sensitive aspect of their product manufacturing.

can you find out how whaler is doing financially on the brunswick site? are they really in the process of buying cabo?

Ed Stone posted 03-22-2004 03:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
All of the hatches on my 23 Outrage have been
rock solid.Including the transom door which looks
like it was built the same way.The bottom of
the hatches are flat and they are the same thickness
overall.

Now I have the sunlounge insert that was bought later
and it to is rock solid,but it is thicker near the edges
and it is not finised with the glassy smooth gelcoat.

I have noticed the newer Whalers hatches are lighter.
That would make me beleive that the cores have been
changed in the last few years.

I've taken the time to look at other builders hatches
at the last couple of boat shows.I think someone out
there is building hatches for alot of different boat
builders.Other than the nonskid some hatches look
almost identical.

Also take notice the way the hinges are attached.
some use piano hinges and thru bolt the entire
width.Some use piano hinges and hide what appear
to be screws.

A lot of builders use the stainless gas assist
shocks thru bolted on any medium to large hatch.

One more thing,speaking of farming out boat parts,
Century had one of Dougherty marines hard tops on
their large center console.Those are the ones with
built in speakers,switches,lights,and a electronic
boxes.

Ed Stone

t2me posted 03-22-2004 07:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
Ed,
Do you keep your boat down south?
I'm here in Boston area where its cold.

tim

Ed Stone posted 03-23-2004 07:51 AM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
Tim,
I'm located near Tampa,Fl.
Today started out cold,54 degrees.
Its probaly safe to say my Outrage has only been
below freezing a few times.
Ed Stone
t2me posted 03-28-2004 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for t2me  Send Email to t2me     
Still no response from whaler on my email.
Does anyone have any ideas on contacting someone that could assist me? Does anyone have abny direct #'s & names?

tim

TRAFFICLAWYER posted 03-30-2004 05:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for TRAFFICLAWYER    
Try Mike Myers.
Jorgen posted 06-18-2004 05:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jorgen  Send Email to Jorgen     
Just got my new hatch for my 210 Outrage 2002. The anchor locker hatch was delaminated, which I discovered after reading all these posts. I could not believe it when I saw it.

I took some pictures and mailed those to Whaler here in Amsterdam. They filed a customer complained to headquarters and I now have a free of charge brand new hatch. I hope that this one last as long as the boat.

BTW, the hull has 10 years warrantee, but all other parts just one Year. Whaler has showen to be very flexible to handle this, but never the less, I am worried about the quality in general.

I noticed when I was polishing the gelcoat of our 13 Dauntless on a spot were there was a scratch, that I was almost going true the gelcoat. This is something I have never experianced with any classic whaler before and it looks like the gelcoat of post classics is a lot thinner.

What is the reason for this?? Just saving money at Whaler?

Does any of you guys have similar experiances?

Look forward to here these.

Thanks

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