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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
Importing two Nantuckets to U.K
|Author||Topic: Importing two Nantuckets to U.K|
posted 02-21-2004 03:43 AM ET (US)
My pal, who has a '97 Montauk and I with a 2000 Dauntless 16, are keen to buy a 19 Nantucket each. U.S Exchange rates are very favourable - A well specced Nantucket with Yamaha F150 and trailer costs approx. £33,000 U.K (about $60,000)each.
Please can anyone give contacts of any helpful U.S. dealers and advice about shipping, taxes, pitfalls etc.?
posted 02-21-2004 12:07 PM ET (US)
Having seen a number of Gray-market items go both ways across the Atlantic over the years. Here are some items which may outweigh the currency advantages:
Warranties: These are usually granted by the importer. Your boat and engine will probably not have any valid warranties in the UK.
Emissions: Make sure the engines will pass EU emissions requirements. You may have to pay to have them re-certified.
Customs: You will pay duty on the boats and engines (less if you can prove them used) and you will probably have to pay a fee to a customs broker to route the import through the bureaucracy.
Shipping: This can usually be arranged through the customs broker. I suspect a container ship will be the most economical and safest for the boat.
You may not be able to find a US boat with a Yammie engine, as BW packages these with Mercuries over here.
A daunting prospect, but this still might be worth the effort.
Hope this helps.
posted 02-21-2004 12:26 PM ET (US)
Perhaps not as straightforward as I had hoped. Still the price differential makes it worth some more research.Many thanks. Does anyone know a good dealer who can supply and has experience of exporting?
posted 02-21-2004 12:38 PM ET (US)
The largest single-store Boston Whaler dealer in the United States is The Lauderdale Marina in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. My guess would be they might have some experience in exporting. Port Everglades is just a mile away and it is a very busy shipping port.
Sales Manager John Connelly used to work at Boston Whaler, and saleman Dave Bearden is an experienced Boston Whaler guy. I am sure they could help you.
posted 02-22-2004 04:56 AM ET (US)
Many thanks, I'll email Lauderdale marina.
posted 02-22-2004 12:06 PM ET (US)
I just came home from the Amsterdam boat show with the new price list for Boston Whaler boats. It seems that the low dollar has brought the prices down alot over here.
A standard 190 Nantucket with EZ-loader trailer and 115 Merc 2-stroke costs 35,382€ (24,062£).
I'm sure if you buy 2 at the same time you could upgrade to a 135 Optimax for about the same price. Because the UK is part of the EU you won't have to pay any import taxes. All you have to do is drive over and pick them up in Holland.
It may be interesting for you.
posted 02-22-2004 02:37 PM ET (US)
Thanks Erik, another much more straightforward avenue to explore. Anyone else any ideas?
posted 02-22-2004 04:56 PM ET (US)
I have had great trouble getting any prices on whalers in the uk, If I may ask what quotes have you had and from whom.
We tried Dorset Yacht and they basically didn't seem interested even at the Excel show.
posted 02-22-2004 07:11 PM ET (US)
Chris, I have bought two new Whalers - the first,a '97 Dauntless 15 from Yeoward & Stone in Salcombe, then in 2000 my current Dauntless 16 from Russell Culpin at Dorset Yacht Co. I like Russell's straightforwardness and knowledge but on buying an American sportsfishingboat magazine recently I realised how relatively expensive we are in the U.K.
The last rough quote I had was at Southampton last year working out at about 33K for a Nantucket with Yamaha F150, extras and trailer. Russell indicated about 14K for my D.16 with F115 Yam. Those figures didn't stack up so I didn't order. I went to Excel but Russell was busy, but from literature it looked like prices were similiar.
I'm surprised you have had problems getting a response. I will call Russell before committing as I would much prefer buying from home. Maybe exchange rates might nudge U.K. prices down, or at least give the dealer more flexibility. Any thoughts?
posted 02-23-2004 04:23 PM ET (US)
I will follow with interest your progress, I can only agree with you about the price disparity between the US and UK.
We eventually bought our SL-16 90hp merc in Somerset last September but were very interested in a 150 sport and found a straight answer to a price in the UK impossible to find.
33k for a 20-24k boat in the US seems very steep.
posted 02-23-2004 07:43 PM ET (US)
I don't think Nantuckets are $20-24K in the US. I think they are over $30K US.
posted 02-23-2004 08:28 PM ET (US)
At the Miami International Boat Show 2004, the Boston Whaler factory exhibit showed a 190 NANTUCKET as follows:
BOAT SHOW SPECIAL*: $29,995
* Price excludes tax and title. Boat must be purchased at the 2004 Miami Boat Show to receive this special price from your participating Boston Whaler dealer.
posted 02-24-2004 03:42 AM ET (US)
I think Chris was quoting prices in £Sterling
£20000 is $37342 at todays exchange rate and
£24000 is $44810, welcome to what is laughingly called rip off Britain.From another thread I've never used a Dell Quay Dory but we are seriously impressed with our SL16 Whaler as a complete all rounder. A great Web Site. Thanks to all SERIOUS contributors
posted 02-24-2004 04:33 AM ET (US)
It's not only the UK where the customer gets ripped of concerning Boston Whaler pricing. The rest of the world does.
Look at the price Jimh shows us here from the Miami boat show. $31,995 (not even taking into account the $3,000 discount)
We pay €35,382 = $44,442 for the same boat (excluding the fishing package !) here in Holland. Even with the lower dollar value. (the price has actually gone down 15%)
I'm sure our Ozzy friends will have the same problem.
posted 02-26-2004 05:51 AM ET (US)
In Sydney, Australia the 109 with a 150 Optimax is A$69k. A$1=US$0.78.It is easy to see why Whalers are so rare down here and why I won't be upgrading from my 130 this month.
posted 02-26-2004 05:54 AM ET (US)
I'm sorry, for 109 read 190. Still 69k
posted 02-26-2004 01:07 PM ET (US)
...which still is expensive at an equivalent of $53,000 USD.
We're dealing with this right now at work in planning for some major meetings over the summer in Europe. Prices for hotels are somewhere in the range of 255 EURO plus 15 Euro for breakfast. Well, $270 per night at the Marriott in a major city in the US is not a bad business rate, but translate that to dollars (1.5 USD per EURO) and we're at $405 per night (including breakfast). This has a major impact on our budgets.
There must be "more we're not seeing" in the way of tarriffs, etc. Otherwise, I would expect quite a few discount importers working here (regardless of the warranty issue).
posted 02-26-2004 02:00 PM ET (US)
I travel all around Europe (and the world) for my work. €255,00 + €15,00 seems to be an awfull lot of money. Maybe I can help you out with some recommended hotels here in Europe.
posted 02-26-2004 08:00 PM ET (US)
I haven't had a reply to my email to Lauderdale Marina. I'll try calling them tomorrow. Any other suggestions for a helpful, receptive U.S dealer as per my original post?
posted 02-26-2004 08:19 PM ET (US)
What you guys are not realizing is that the Whalers are high priced in Europe because they are being outfitted with high priced Yamaha motors, probably because of the exceptionally strong Yen. The English importer of Whalers must be controlling this situation. Evidently over there, Yamahas are not being "dumped" like they are here, so the prices are high. Please tell us what a "loose" Yamaha costs in England, translated into dollars. The comparison would be interesting.
If Whaler will permit a US dealer to ship a Merc rigged Whaler over there, I would guess it would be a lot less, because of our weak dollar, as mentioned. I have heard that a lot of Europeans used to do this, buy in the US, especially Ft Lauderdale/Miami while on vacation, and then have the Whalers shipped over. I see a lot of European boats in FL in the winter, so there must be some outfit shipping boats back and forth on a regular basis. I have seen several yacht transport ships in Lauderdale's port.
Also, Yamahas are cheaper in Canada than the US, so maybe one should look into the possiblity of getting a Yamaha rigged Whaler shipped over from Canada? All of this, of course, if one cannot stand to have a new Whaler with a high performance Mercury engine on it!!!
posted 02-27-2004 04:22 AM ET (US)
I have also asked myself why dealers in the UK offer certain Boston Whalers (Legends) with motors other than Mercury.
posted 02-27-2004 12:07 PM ET (US)
Some comparative U.K. list prices...
190 Nantucket hull only - £19,985. ($37,772.)
Yamaha F60AETL............£ 5,719. ($10,809.)
" HPDI. Z150PETL.....£ 9,771. ($18,467.)
Mercury 115XLPT E.F.I (4 st.)...£ 8,898.($16,817.)
posted 02-27-2004 02:31 PM ET (US)
John - thanks for the INCREDIBLY interesting pricing information. Those prices are terrible. I'm sure you have been following the "Dumping into the US market" claims of Mercury against the Japanese outboard manufacturers, and from what you are indicating, it's apparently completely true. I would assume the Mercury people are completely aware of this situation.
Since it is reasonable to assume that a Yamaha outboard manufactured somewhere in Japan would have similar shipping costs into the UK or the US, the price discrepancies indicate that Yamaha is making up it's dumping losses in the US on the European purchasers. Real nice. Unfortunately, it seems that Mercury is taking advantage of the price gouging by Yamaha in Europe (unless the European Merc dealers are doing this pricing independently). All this being said of course, with no knowledge of applicable EU or other tarrifs/import taxes that could apply to outboards in general.
So the question is why are Yamahas so underpriced in the US compared to prices in Europe? Sounds like dumping to me. I wonder if it's to drive Evinrude, Johnson and Mercury out of business by capturing most of their marketshare, by selling at pricing they can't afford to maintain? I wonder what "Uncle Phil of Georgia" would have to say about this (who has failed to admit that 4 of Yamaha's best 4-stroke engines are made by Mercury, while only 3 of Mercury's are made by him).
Getting back to the original topic, with prices like the ones being charged in Europe, it makes sense for one to take a winter vacation trip to Florida, buy a Whaler, store it FL for month or so, and then make arrangements for shipment home, independent of the selling dealership.
posted 02-27-2004 06:17 PM ET (US)
Larry, before you get too excited about this, understand that those are prices charged by dealers to their end customers not the prices Yamaha charges the dealers. I don't believe that the "retail" price charged by dealers in one country and by dealers in another country are part of the dumping equation. The financial analysis is much more complicated than that!
Also, things in the Europe appear to be incredibly expensive. For comparison purposes, I offer this. A Volkswagen Passat V6 4 Motion has an MSRP of $32,605 in the United States. That same car in the UK is listed at $43,600 (I bet the price in Germany is probably high too). How can the same German car imported across the Atlantic into the United States cost less than the one imported across the Channel into the UK cost less, particularly with the dollar being as weak as it is? Looks like the world is simply dumping its goods on us, not just the Japanese outboard manufacturers, doesn't it.
Let's not jump to conclusions. Let the Commission and Commerce conduct their investigation and let's see where they come out.
posted 02-27-2004 07:00 PM ET (US)
Does Europe, and epecially the UK, already have protective tariffs in place, similar to what Mercury wants us to do, which causes outboards from Japan to cost so much? Except for import fees or some other user tax, there seems to be no other logical reason for the high prices of Yamahas over there, other than the strong Yen. If so, the strong Yen should apply here, or it's against our trade laws.
posted 02-27-2004 08:00 PM ET (US)
Not only are Yamaha's prices high in the UK, but Mercury's too. Acording to John's info, a 115 Mercury 4 stroke is only $130 less than a Yamaha 115 4 stroke (same motor) and the 150 Optimax is more expensive than the new Yamaha 150 4 stroke.
Maybe the question should be: Why are outboard prices (including Mercury) so high in Europe compared to the US?
posted 02-27-2004 08:13 PM ET (US)
I have been looking at the purchase of stock standard 170MT with 90HP 4-stroke in Western Australia and obtained prices from a range of locations -[All following prices based on AUD:USD 78 cents]
In Australia the latest 'adjusted price' - 'drive away' from our (only)local BW dealer is AUD39,500 [USD30,800]
From USA - USD19,500 FOB west coast - which landed with duty etc works out at AUD38,000 [USD29,640] - with lots of risk and hassle...
From UK - exWorks exVAT USD26,450 [AUD33,910]- with transport, clearing, insurance, duty/GST, etc this comes to about AUD40,200 [USD31,356]... again with risk and hassle...
This has been a very interesting exercise - the important thing from this exercise is that the Oz price has come down about AUD8,000 and boat and engine warrantees would be OK - where as with the other importing options this may not be the case.
Hope this helps this discussion...
posted 02-28-2004 07:59 PM ET (US)
Sorry...an error...the FINAL COST in Australia if importing 170MT from UK is AUD44,200 [USD34,500]. The extra cost is getting the boat from USA to UK
posted 03-01-2004 03:16 AM ET (US)
I know its not very scientific but it seems to work.
If it costs $100 US It will cost £100 whatever the current exchange rate is.Dont know why.
posted 03-01-2004 01:52 PM ET (US)
My mother routinely ships containers full of English junk back here to the states and sells it as "antiques". She has been doing it for 30 years and has good relationships with a couple of shippers.
If you are serious about shipping a boat, let me know if I can help. As a disclaimer I should be clear that I know nothing about the various laws/tariffs involved, but could look into the shipping aspect for you.
posted 03-01-2004 03:17 PM ET (US)
Very many thanks for your possible offer of help with a shipping contact.
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