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Author Topic:   Wood: Turning "Legends" into "Classics"
Knot at Work posted 02-27-2004 08:54 AM ET (US)   Profile for Knot at Work   Send Email to Knot at Work  
[This thread was initially titled "wood?" and written in a satirical tone, but it soon took on a life of its own and not quite as intended by its initial author. I changed the TOPIC to reflect this--jimh.]

Thinking about all the comments on wood and post classics and new classics and I have decided to try to convert my post into a pre.

I will go to Home Depot and Lowes and purchase some 2x2 and 2x4 and drill it into my gunwhale's and then I buy some ply wood and nail it to my transom.

Next I will cut some scrap and hot glue it to my Console on both sides.

lastly I will stain it and varnish to a burnt or golden hue.

I will then light a stogie and contemplate the musing of Freud over a tall bottle of coors....

wenchris posted 02-27-2004 11:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for wenchris  Send Email to wenchris     
Cannot wait till winter is over!
jimh posted 02-27-2004 12:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Reacting to the intial tone of the article, I said:] I usually write articles like this after coming home from a bad day at work. Fortunately, after I write them I usually also throw them away.

Now once in a while after a really bad day at work one or two like this sneak past me and I hit the send button.

Then I delete them a week or two later.

Knot at Work posted 02-27-2004 12:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Knot at Work  Send Email to Knot at Work     
Yes but at least I posted it in the correct forum!

Tongue in cheek of course!

Moe posted 02-27-2004 01:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Sooner or later, it's bound to happen. A woodshop master craftsman is going come along, buy a 170, and replace the fiberglas center console and RPS, and perhaps the bow locker lid, with replacements constructed from mahogany and teak. Probably even put it on the gunwales. Wait and see.

--
Moe

bricknj posted 02-27-2004 01:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for bricknj    
I am going to do this to my Nantucket. But I will not use real wood. I am having a "Trex mastercraftsman" cut the pieces for me. Console door. RPS. Gunwales.

Should I be concerned about any permanent odor? Oil and old tire kind of odor?

lhg posted 02-27-2004 01:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Moe - You've been reading my mind, except for the gunwales, where teak never existed on the Classics either.

My perfect 170 would be to replace the standard console, which is WAY to small, short and low for me, with the better scaled, nicer looking (in my opinion) Dauntless 180 Console. In front of this would go a 96Qt Igloo, so two adults could sit instead of two kids, and Whalers Classic teak backed RPS, varnished, and raised 6" of course. Cooler and seat cushions would still be white. Higher profile bow rails would also be added, plus a nice 28 gallon tank under the RPS. The perfect engine for me would be a Merc 125HP two stroke, same 348# weight as the 115 but much stronger. And I'd get a Continental keel roller trailer for it. Wow, what a Whaler!

erik selis posted 02-27-2004 01:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Moe, could you use your magic to create a scaled-model top view of Larry's suggestion here? Would be worth investigating IMO .

Erik

bricknj posted 02-27-2004 02:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for bricknj    
Wait.

You guys weren't kidding? Now I feel foolish....

Knot at Work posted 02-27-2004 02:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Knot at Work  Send Email to Knot at Work     
lmao!

I was kidding! (except thepart of smoking a Cohiba and having a beer)

you guys need to get your Whalers on the water!


Moe posted 02-27-2004 03:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Actually, what I had in mind above was someone creating a new console, perhaps even including flat glass windshield frame, totally out of wood.

Here's a quick and dirty for Eric:

http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/Larrys170.gif

That's the 180 console and RPS, copied to scale, on the 170 with the cooler scaled horizontally to the 94QT marine cooler width. Ignore the 180 access plate.

One thing became readily apparent when I did this... the RPS was much further back than the 170 RPS, but there was much more room between the CC and RPS on the 180. I slid the 180 RPS up a bit, maybe not enough. Looks like it could go up a little more. It has to be forward to cover the gas line conduit in the sole. Not sure if that would be a problem with the deeper 180 CC. I don't think so.

I don't know if the 170 is the same, but on the 150 there's a long one-piece cleat for the console front and sides to attach to, molded into the cockpit sole. If the 170 has them, they would have to be spaced out with blocks between them and the sides of the larger console. Doable.

--
Moe

Barney posted 02-27-2004 03:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Hey the sun just came out!!
Moe posted 02-27-2004 03:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Here's a cleaner version (no access plate, etc) with the RPS moved a little more forward:

http://www.engr.udayton.edu/staff/lriggins/Whaler/Larrys170-2.gif

--
Moe

erik selis posted 02-27-2004 03:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
Hey thanks Moe !

Makes you really start to think about it :)

Erik

lhg posted 02-27-2004 03:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Very good, Moe. I like it. BW should consider that console as an option. I am absolutely convinced the current one is too small and low for most people, unless you're going to be running the boat seated (also too low).
Moe posted 02-27-2004 04:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
Larry, the way Whaler has been responding to "wish lists" for the 170 on this forum, i.e. the cleats and the rear bench seat, it wouldn't surprise me if they soon offer a 1.5-2" spacer custom molded to raise the 170 console.

--
Moe

jimh posted 02-27-2004 04:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
For a lark, it would be quite interesting to see how much demand there would be for a special factory-built version of a 170 MONTAUK that included some nicely finished wood trim, a classic Reversible Pilot Seat, perhaps teak gunwale caps, and maybe even the original Montauk console (c.1988 model).

Could you push the MSRP up $3,000 and sell many boats in that trim?

Lars Simonsen posted 02-27-2004 05:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Lars Simonsen  Send Email to Lars Simonsen     
I've thought that if I kept my Dauntless long enough, I might add some wood to it. I'd replace the doors on the console with wood (and that's probably it).

Hurricane Isabel knocked down lots of trees in the woods behind my house. Many people are clear cutting the woods, but I didn't want to do that. So my neighbor and I cut all the downed big trees, dragged them out of the woods with my tractor, and piled them up. We've hired a guy with a portable sawmill to cut them into boards. We've already had one day of sawing, and as a result I have a pile of about 400 boards, mostly pine, but some oak, cherry, holly and gum.

I took one piece of cherry, planed it down to about 3/16" thickness. I then took the instrument off of my boat, took all the switches and instruments off of it, and used it as a template to cut an identical piece of wood. After lots of coats of spar urethane, I've reinstalled it all, and now have a beautiful cherry instrument panel. It looks very nice! So i've made one step towards turning my post classic into a classic!

Lars

jaccoserv posted 02-27-2004 09:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jaccoserv  Send Email to jaccoserv     
Moe,
If you don't mind me asking, how do you do that with the drawings?
jimh posted 02-27-2004 10:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Changed TOPIC: was "wood?"]
jimh posted 02-27-2004 10:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Re the drawings: cut-and-paste and a good graphics program.
Moe posted 02-27-2004 10:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Moe  Send Email to Moe     
I right-click on the large image from the Whaler site, select Save Picture As... and save it to my hard drive.

I open the picture in Microsoft Photo Editor, and crop it to the bow, stern, and gunwales. Once that is done, I resize it to 2 pixels per inch of beam horizontally, and 2 pixels per inch of length longitudinally. (When I first started doing this, I hadn't standardized on 2 pixels per inch)

Then I create a new document (in Photo Editor) and cut and paste boats into it, moving them around where I want them. To erase something large, I select a section of white and drag it over what I want to erase.

When it gets down to detail, I use Microsoft Paint to work pixel by pixel.

When it's all done, I crop out everything not wanted with MS Photo Editor.

Hope this helps,
--
Moe

kamie posted 02-27-2004 11:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for kamie  Send Email to kamie     
lars,
fortunately Isabel only took down one huge oak in my front yard. Unfortunately that took down all the wires (electric including 2 poles, phone and cable) for two blocks around my house.

moe, I'm begining to think we need to get you photoshop

Knot at Work posted 02-28-2004 01:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for Knot at Work  Send Email to Knot at Work     
Jimh, I appreciate your energies but you really have no requirement to explain the context of your comments regarding my tongue in cheek satire. you attempt to distance yourself from my comments. Your equivocation of the article is not required, I knew what I meant and you attacked it for what it was worth, and now, it has grown wings, you do not need to show your context to the new direction, stay in front and stay your course....

I can respect that more

Respectfully

OzWhaler posted 02-28-2004 01:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for OzWhaler  Send Email to OzWhaler     
The drawings of the 'new' console for the 170MT look great but the method of producing the graphic a bit hard.... have you had a look at Microsoft Visio ??? You can actually work over photos and graphics TO SCALE and convert to JPEG of PDF, etc...??
A bit off the track - but maybe useful...
jaccoserv posted 02-28-2004 02:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for jaccoserv  Send Email to jaccoserv     
Thanks Moe, they really help me visualize.
erik selis posted 02-28-2004 07:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for erik selis  Send Email to erik selis     
While we mentioned the subject that BW monitors this website and may respond to the wishes of 170 owners, I really hope they will offer some kind of molded spacer to raise the console height.

A steering wheel that can tilt up and down would also be a great help. Has anybody here replaced their steering wheel on their 170 Montauk with some kind of adjustable one (i.e. from the 18-foot Dauntless)?

I've been trying to manipulate some pictures to place the nice teak from Dirk Thyssens 18-foot Outrage into pictures of my 170 Montauk....I give up..LOL. If I would show these I think this thread would be dead and buried in no time. I will leave this to the Photoshop specialists.:)

Thanks again Moe for taking the time to make those very interesting graphics. Not only in this thread but in many others as well.

Erik

jimh posted 02-28-2004 09:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Knot--Welcome back.

Just to clarify--were you gonna buy treated 2X4's or just use plain construction grade pine?

Peter posted 02-28-2004 11:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Even with the wood it really wouldn't achieve the classic look until it has a Shepard's Crook on the front of the console. So while your at Home Depot, don't forget to pick up some PVC pipe. Only problem you'll have is finding someone who can bend the PVC pipe just right.
Jimm posted 02-28-2004 12:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jimm    
Can anyone shed some light on the approximate cost of the larger console? If the embedded wood is that far out for the width of the larger console then it seems like a fairly straight forward job......or am I missing the obvious?
Knot at Work posted 02-29-2004 08:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Knot at Work  Send Email to Knot at Work     
Jimh,

LOL thanks. 2x4 MFD is you must know or a piece from my old Sauder entertainment center!

Actually, I did intend this to be sarcastic, but now that is deserves some merit, I suspect I would have difficulty if say, I had to replace a plastic hatch on my 170. Would I replace with plastic? Or a teak or mahagony hatch made by Whaler for Post Classic boats? HMmmmmm... not sure which road to take.

in any case, love the site and the intellectual scrimmages. I hope we all ca get along regardless of Whaler type post or pre and save our best wit for the owners of regulators and bayliners.

with respect,

Jeff

Barney posted 02-29-2004 07:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
All I know is I won't do it til I'm retired. Marine wood upkeep. Yuck. Now a bigger fiberglass console would be great. Jim
BEACHPANDA posted 03-02-2004 10:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for BEACHPANDA  Send Email to BEACHPANDA     
Today I took possession of my '94 24' Outrage. I have to admit that she looks kind of anorexic and naked without the character of wood.

As pieces wear out, I guess I'll also look to replacing them with wood. ALL, and I mean ALL, of my memories & attraction to the ocean has been wonderlusting for the tall ships. If I can't have one, captain, crew, and all, then my Whaler w/ wood is the way to go.

Call me old fashioned, but newer isn't always better. There's an old addage I was taught in grade school....

Make new friends, but keep the old, one is silver and the other is Gold.

BEACHPANDA

BEACHPANDA posted 03-07-2004 05:20 AM ET (US)     Profile for BEACHPANDA  Send Email to BEACHPANDA     
Today, I did it! I started the conversion from Post-Classic to Classic Style.

My '94 Outrage 24 came without a Stern Seat. Since I had one made for my 1980 V 20, out of a Teak Dive Platform, and I no longer need it now that I'm going to sell the V-20 after it's painted, I had the Teak Stern Seat Modified and put into the OR 24.

I'm toying with the idea of adding a Teak Anchor Pulpit, so as to "balance" the look. Then as the synthetic parts crack, fade, discolor, etc... I'll replace them with Teak too.

KAW, Thanks for a great idea!

BEACHPANDA

LHG posted 03-07-2004 02:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Allen - You should know that BW actually had a teak board gunwale overlay option on Outrage 24. I have only seen one with it, but it was basically a 1" teak board covering the fiberglass gunwales, from rear of bow rail to transom.
BEACHPANDA posted 03-07-2004 03:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for BEACHPANDA  Send Email to BEACHPANDA     
LHG,

Is there anyway to get a photo, or a diagram, of what the area looked like?

I'm asking, not because I can't figure out where to put Teak, or even how, but because the "inner side" of the Gunnels have a Cushioned Booster. I just had it removed. The area runs alongside the inside of the gunnels from the back of the bow to the stern/transom (but not on the transom). The cushions are a nice touch for the comfort of my wife and kids.

Basically, my question is.. does the Teak go "on top" of the gunnels (ie: where you put your feet when you enter the boat)? Or does the Teak go where the Cushioned Bumpers are (inside the boat)?

BEACHPANDA

LHG posted 03-07-2004 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Allen: the teak was on the top surface of the gunwales. The screw heads were pegged. It did not look quite as good as the older style gunwales, which were EITHER teak or glass.

Evidently in those first years of eliminating teak from the Outrage, there were still some buyers looking for it. The Whaler Catalog CD's price lists may show this option.

BEACHPANDA posted 03-07-2004 07:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for BEACHPANDA  Send Email to BEACHPANDA     
LHG,

Would this the be same The Whaler Catalog CD's that Tom Clark sells?

Once I see what it looks like, I can always figure out a way to just cut out a couple sections (if necessary) of the upper Gunnel, and replace it with Teak... if I can't just work some kind of complete overlay, that I can also attach with pegs.

BP

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