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ContinuousWave: Post-Classic Whalers
Repower Ventura 160-Help Deciding
|Author||Topic: Repower Ventura 160-Help Deciding|
posted 03-04-2004 11:50 PM ET (US)
I purchased a 1999 Ventura 160 w/ 1999 Suzuki 4-stroke 70 last May. Love both the motor and the boat, but top end is only about 27 mph per gps. I am thinking about repowering and have narrowed my choices down to 90hp Johnson(105 cu" 4 cyl $4599) and 115 hp Yamaha(105 cu" 4cyl $5900). I have owned both brands before and my experience has been much more favorable with Yamaha. I know there have been issues in the past with OMC(Bomb) oil injection and/or assembly quality-mostly during OMC's meltdown. I know a good many people who have had great success with Johnson V-4 motors in the past. My question -is it worth the extra $1500 for the Yamaha(I love them) or will the Johnson with it's equal displacement give me close to equal performance(without sacrificing reliability)? Any help is greatly appreciated.
posted 03-05-2004 05:14 AM ET (US)
I would suggest you don't neglect the evinrude etec's. They make a light, award-winning motor that has impressed many. Not a four-strokw though. If you are choosing really between those two; go Yam. I have a mercury 115. Made mostly by Yam anyway/ great motor.
posted 03-05-2004 11:45 AM ET (US)
Jaybird, I have a Ventura 160 with a Mercury 90 2-stroke. I get close to 40 mph with it. I believe that one of the big factors in the performance is the low weight of this motor (305 lbs.) for it's displacement. I'm not familiar with either of the two motors you mentioned (although I've had very good experiences with Yamaha on our other boat). I would look carefully at any new motor's weight...I think the Ventura/Dauntless 160's are fairly sensitive to too much transom weight.
Hope that helps,
posted 03-05-2004 12:15 PM ET (US)
You may also want to look at the Nissan / Tohatsu 90hp TLDI. I would think you can pick one up for ~$6300 or less and that includes controls and a prop. I looked at it at the Miami boat show and was impressed with the technology. It only weighs 315lbs, meets EPA requirements for 2006, is very quiet and fuel efficient and because of the weight may perform almost as well as the heavier Yamaha.
posted 03-05-2004 03:39 PM ET (US)
I would shy away from the fourstroke engines and stick with two stroke for reasons of weight and to some extent power to weight ratio.The Venturer has some porposing issue's which imho could become worse with a heavy engine.
we also have a merc 90 which on our SL16 goes like stink 42+ at wot and instant throttle response and If you could get away with it on emissions could be a good contender (cheap powerful and tough as old boots according to a senior Mercury tecnician at the excel boat show in London).
this would give time for lighter fourstrokes to evolve as they surely will.
However the Etec 90 is light although has fairly small cubes from memory will get you past EPA 2006 BUT IS EXPENSIVE.
posted 03-06-2004 12:49 AM ET (US)
Thanks everybody for the replys. My last motor(before the current Suz70 4-stroke)on a 16' Mckee was a 90 hp Nissan(Tohatsu). I paid $5,ooo for it in 2000 and it was a good dependable motor, but at idle it really vibtated the boat. It , the Yamaha 90, the 90 Merc and the supposedly wonderful e-tec Evenrude 90 are all 3 cylinder with displacement of about 84 cu" or less. The Johnson 90 is a 2 cycle v-4 w/ 105 cu" displacement. My real question here is has Bombadier improved the quality of this product to where it should be seriously considered. I talked with the owner of the Outboard Shop in Charleston SC today(they used to be the largest Whaler dealership in this part of the country) and he said that he felt the 90 2 cycle Johnson would be hard to beat for my Ventura 160 eventhough he sells more Yamaha than anything else. Comments please.
posted 03-06-2004 02:08 AM ET (US)
Ventura16, The v-4 2 cycle Johnson is about 330 lbs. While in Charleston today, I found a dealer with a new 1999 90 hp Merc 2 cycle that I could get for $4,900 w/o controll box or prop. Still has warranty. I had a 93 75 hp Merc on a SeaPro 17' dual console that I bought new in 1993. I had some problems with the pee hole clogging up and a part that held the trim and tilt together came apart. What year is your Merc 90 and is it easy to start and have you had any QC issues with it? Thanks for all responses! Bob
posted 03-06-2004 05:46 AM ET (US)
I am not an engine mechanic or anything; I have had the 2003 Mercury 90 on my 160 Ventura that I just sold to trade up.
The engine was very smokey. very loud. I would start her (only way to do it was turn the key with the throttle at full and ease back. It would stall many times before my successfully getting it to idle straight for 5 minutes. Sometimes it just didnt turn over.
Once running it did make the Ventura go very fast. And yes the boat did porpoise. The power is no doubt there, but I was afraid it might stall under way. I suspect the initial oil the dealer put in the gas tank was the wrong concentration. I suspect my naivete didnt help me rectify the situation in the three months I had it on the water. I suspect the dealer didnt blah blah blah.
Did I have a "lemon" motor? Doubt it. But the experience made me vow to get a fourstroke next time around. And this time I will learn how to timker with it and "get to know it."
posted 03-06-2004 03:01 PM ET (US)
we have a 90hp merc and find it great, starts first time just push in the key to prime and twist.
never noticed a great deal of smoke and to me does'nt seem too loud in fact very reasonable at cruise 3500 25mph or there about.
frankly I was a bit apprehensive having had Volvo and Yamaha outboards before but I think our old 1996 merc is a real nice engine which I would recommend to anybody.
posted 03-06-2004 04:21 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys for the responses. After going to several more dealerships today I am starting to get sticker shock. The new motor prices seem resonable until you find out that a wiring harness, control box, oil tank etc. will add about $650 to the price. Bummer.
posted 03-06-2004 05:03 PM ET (US)
Wait'll you look at four-stroke prices.
posted 03-06-2004 06:16 PM ET (US)
Bob, I've had no problems with my 90 Merc. It is a 2000 and has about 150 hrs. on it at this point. Other than routine maintenance, no other service has been necessary. It does idle a little rough when completely cold, but quickly warms up and runs great. The Ventura doesn't porpoise if the motor is trimmed correctly but I did add a Doel-fin to the motor which seems to help it get on plane faster. It also stays on plane at a lower speed now. I think it is an ideal match for the Ventura 160...and as someone pointed out, they are a very bullet-proof design. I would be very hesitant to put a heavier motor on that hull.
posted 03-07-2004 02:44 PM ET (US)
Clark Roberts has indicated here previously that the idle problems mentioned for the 2-stroke Merc 90 are usually the result of improperly adjusted idle mixture screws, often from the factory! He has said with the proper adjustent the engines starts easily and idles smoothly.
posted 03-08-2004 09:44 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the info Larry. I'd read that in a couple of other threads as well. I'm going to try adjusting the idle mixtures just as soon as the water softens up. Can't wait for spring!
posted 03-08-2004 09:53 PM ET (US)
I would look at optimizing the motor you have first. It may be improperly propped or set-up. Having said that...
I bought a 2003 16 Dauntless with a Merc 115 4 stroke. teriffic motor. A tad stern heavy and a case could be made for more out-of-the-hole torque, but it's a great extreme. Starts immediately even after weeks. Sips gas and tops out at 45 lightly loaded.
There are alot of great choices. I'm sure that helps...
posted 03-08-2004 09:57 PM ET (US)
It's interesting that a 16 Dauntless is rated for a 115, yet a 170 Montauk is not.
posted 03-09-2004 01:49 PM ET (US)
Well, I have put my Suzuki 70hp 4-stroke up for sale here in SC and on the for sale forum on this web site. If I can't get close to my asking price, I might just have to keep it and try tinkering with how it is set up(change prop,raise motor on transom). If it does sell I think I'll drive up to Virginia and get a 90hp Johnson 2-stroke from Ed's Marine and save about $500 over what local dealers want for one. Thanks for all the replys guys!
posted 03-17-2004 08:37 PM ET (US)
Well, the 70hp suzui just left out the driveway. I would like to know how the Continuouswave community feels about the Johnson engines since Bombi has taken over. Is there a stronger engine in the under $5K range(just engine, no controls, etc.) than the 105.4 cu" 90 hp 2-stroke Johnson? If not , how is the reliability of the new Bombadier Johnson outboards. What size and pitch prop will work best on my heavy Ventura 16 with this motor? Can I go with a 19" prop? Also, I am considering buying the motor and needed parts from a dealer about 200 miles away and get an independent mechanic(formerly OMC certified) 2 miles from my house to rig it(i'll save about $500 over local purchase). What are the downsides to this approach other than a long trip for warranty service? Thanks in advance for any input. Bob
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